Rickie Fowler is a cautionary tale in overexposing a superstar

[Arn]

No. He never was a superstar.

[Cincy_Ken]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:15 PM, nsxguy said:

So how much do we think Rickie will win in 2021 ?  

He won in 15 (2 wins), 17, and 19.  I'll give him one in 21.  Even if he regains peak form I do think he's done as a top 20 golfer as he remains behind established guys like DJ, JT, Rory and has been passed by younger more talented guys like Rahm, Xander, Bryson, Morika.  He's at best the third most talented OSU grad.

[Shilgy]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:51 PM, melo said:

That's a completely fair point on PH. To be fair, since several people have mentioned my points, I'd like to clarify:

 

1. My discussion about having the best year or being number 1 aren't really about either of those things. The point I was making is that during Tiger's dominance their were opportunities for other players to assert themselves, but that Phil was NEVER that guy. He didn't have the best seasons OR hit number 1. Is he the second best player of his generation, yes, but I think that he is a VERY DISTANT second and while people say Vijay isn't that close, what about Els with his 4 majors and 46 total PGA and Euro wins???...

 

2. I think we might also look at the Ryder cup where Phil is trounced by Casper, Trevino and Faldo (Phil has more wins than Trevino - barely - but in 50% more matches). 

 

3. I think we tend to overstate the whole generational thing...looking at the Arnie/Jack years we had a group of 6 players had 48 majors. Then there was the Watson era with 6 guys who won 30 (Watson, faldo, Floyd, nelson, price and irwin) - with a bunch of guys who won 1 or 2. In the Tiger/Phil era we had 6 players (tiger, Phil, Vijay, els, Payne Stewart, padraig) that won 35, again with a bunch of guys at 1 or 2. It is only the VERY recent generation were rory, spieth, dj and koepka have 13 and then 37 other majors won by different guys. 

 

4. Even if we take out EVERYONE before 1950, that still leaves Jack, Player, Palmer, Faldo, Trevino, Tiger, Watson, and Snead. So Phil would be 9th on that list if you think he is better than Seve - or 10th if you don't. But that requires you to believe he is better than not just 1 of those guys from before 1950, but all of them. 

 

I also think we should consider Jack won a major at 46 on an ailing hip and Watson almost beat the same "amazing group of ahtletes" being talked about by others at 59 years old. Tiger won a major after spinal fusion over these, "oh my God they are so good and the field is so deep, pga players." Even know the same guys win all the time when it comes to majors - rory, koepka, dj, and Spieth have like 13 of the past 50 majors (26%).

 

Again, Phil is great. I just don't think think he is top 10 all-time, and even we discount all those early guy, he is still pushing it. 

Not to quibble to much but your Els info is misleading. Six of his wins count on both tours-4 majors and 2 WGC events- so you cannot just add them up. You need to, imo, vastly overrate either major wins or Euro wins to consider Ernie the equal of Phil.

[melo]

20 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not to quibble to much but your Els info is misleading. Six of his wins count on both tours-4 majors and 2 WGC events- so you cannot just add them up. You need to, imo, vastly overrate either major wins or Euro wins to consider Ernie the equal of Phil.

No worries, I'm not saying Els was a good as Phil, simply stating that they are quite close, much closer than the gap between Tiger and Phil which is enormous. At the end of the day, we are all quibbling- if you think Phil is the 6th best of all time and I think he's 15th, does it matter much? He isn't 1 or 2 and he isn't in the conversation for 1 or 2. As for his influence on the game, he isn't Jack or Tiger, or Annika, or any of the many players I haven't mentioned who have really impacted the game. He is however one of the best to ever tee it up, a fan favorite, a prodigious gambler and fan favorite. For all of that, I appreciate him. Happy New Year! 

[Christosterone]

as an aside, Phil and Ernie on swwog in the 90s was must see...

 

phils swing was straight out of the 70s and ernies was the only tempo I’ve ever seen to compare with montgomerie

 

 

[Shilgy]

18 hours ago, melo said:

No worries, I'm not saying Els was a good as Phil, simply stating that they are quite close, much closer than the gap between Tiger and Phil which is enormous. At the end of the day, we are all quibbling- if you think Phil is the 6th best of all time and I think he's 15th, does it matter much? He isn't 1 or 2 and he isn't in the conversation for 1 or 2. As for his influence on the game, he isn't Jack or Tiger, or Annika, or any of the many players I haven't mentioned who have really impacted the game. He is however one of the best to ever tee it up, a fan favorite, a prodigious gambler and fan favorite. For all of that, I appreciate him. Happy New Year! 

I have Phil any where from 9 to 15 at worse. Never been a fan of his but respect his career. The whole “never been #1” is odd to me when looking at careers. We didn’t have the owgr back in the 40’s but I wonder if Snead would have ever been #1.  First Nelson and then Hogan were #1 but Snead won the most events in a long career.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

From "the people" that produce "those lists"  Phil is top 20, sometimes 10.  But it's really irrelevant to this thread.  Meanwhile back to Rickie--- at 53 OWGR he was not in the first batch of Masters invites for 2021. As a fan I hope he can do what it takes to make to Augusta this April. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Holy Moses]

Can’t we just talk about Rickie not winning majors?

[FakeClubPro]

29 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Can’t we just talk about Rickie not winning majors?

 

I think the title of the thread is more about Rickie becoming an over-exposed golf brand and now not living up to the supposed hype.

 

He is not the most physically gifted guy like say almost freakish Dustin Johnson.  Rickie is still an athlete type.  making him a brand to sell Puma, Rocket Mortgage and Farmers - why not.  Look at Anthony Kim - most people have totally forgotten who he ever was.  Not the biggest and strongest guy but he could play.  He gets injured and has insurance with a BIG policy.  If he swings a club in any tourney he loses the dough.

 

The point is - Rickie is making the money while he can.  He was popular with younger kids with his Puma gear.  He can play but don't forget - he is playing against 100 guys who are the best in the world.  You know have the huge and talented bombers like Bryson, Wolff, Champ plus DJ.

 

Rickie was playing in the first post Covid thing at Juno Beach, FL golf course against Rory, DJ and Wolff.  Huge bombers and he was hanging in there but it is tough to hang with those guys especially DJ.  2020 saw Wolff develop even more.  He was the only guy to challenge Bryson DeChambeau at the US Open.

[Holy Moses]

59 minutes ago, FakeClubPro said:

 

I think the title of the thread is more about Rickie becoming an over-exposed golf brand and now not living up to the supposed hype.

 

He is not the most physically gifted guy like say almost freakish Dustin Johnson.  Rickie is still an athlete type.  making him a brand to sell Puma, Rocket Mortgage and Farmers - why not.  Look at Anthony Kim - most people have totally forgotten who he ever was.  Not the biggest and strongest guy but he could play.  He gets injured and has insurance with a BIG policy.  If he swings a club in any tourney he loses the dough.

 

The point is - Rickie is making the money while he can.  He was popular with younger kids with his Puma gear.  He can play but don't forget - he is playing against 100 guys who are the best in the world.  You know have the huge and talented bombers like Bryson, Wolff, Champ plus DJ.

 

Rickie was playing in the first post Covid thing at Juno Beach, FL golf course against Rory, DJ and Wolff.  Huge bombers and he was hanging in there but it is tough to hang with those guys especially DJ.  2020 saw Wolff develop even more.  He was the only guy to challenge Bryson DeChambeau at the US Open.

Yes, but can’t we just talk about Rickie not winning majors?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 minute ago, Holy Moses said:

Yes, but can’t we just talk about Rickie not winning majors?

Why such a narrow focus? Did I miss something earlier?

[Holy Moses]

5 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Why such a narrow focus? Did I miss something earlier?

Just messing. THIS IS A RICKIE THREAD NOT A PHIL THREAD 😄.

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, FakeClubPro said:

 

I think the title of the thread is more about Rickie becoming an over-exposed golf brand and now not living up to the supposed hype.

 

He is not the most physically gifted guy like say almost freakish Dustin Johnson.  Rickie is still an athlete type.  making him a brand to sell Puma, Rocket Mortgage and Farmers - why not.  Look at Anthony Kim - most people have totally forgotten who he ever was.  Not the biggest and strongest guy but he could play.  He gets injured and has insurance with a BIG policy.  If he swings a club in any tourney he loses the dough.

 

The point is - Rickie is making the money while he can.  He was popular with younger kids with his Puma gear.  He can play but don't forget - he is playing against 100 guys who are the best in the world.  You know have the huge and talented bombers like Bryson, Wolff, Champ plus DJ.

 

Rickie was playing in the first post Covid thing at Juno Beach, FL golf course against Rory, DJ and Wolff.  Huge bombers and he was hanging in there but it is tough to hang with those guys especially DJ.  2020 saw Wolff develop even more.  He was the only guy to challenge Bryson DeChambeau at the US Open.

Careful now...he’s still ranked above Champ!🤗

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Just messing. THIS IS A RICKIE THREAD NOT A PHIL THREAD 😄.

Fine....

let’s start a new thread...100 reasons why Rickie hasn’t won a major.

I’ll start....

1) pole vault

2) endorsement time

3) someone told him top 5 in majors is “good”. He misunderstood.

4) thru 100). Fill in the blanks. ⛳️

[Holy Moses]

14 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Fine....

let’s start a new thread...100 reasons why Rickie hasn’t won a major.

I’ll start....

1) pole vault

2) endorsement time

3) someone told him top 5 in majors is “good”. He misunderstood.

4) thru 100). Fill in the blanks. ⛳️

5)-100) HE’S RICH AND HAPPY AND THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS

[Shilgy]

13 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

5)-100) HE’S RICH AND HAPPY AND THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS

That’s why you were asking you sly dog...you had an answer waiting!🐶

[WhostherealSlimShady]

Stats are all you need to look at.

 

2020 

 

119th is driving distance

112th in GIR

123rd in Sand Saves

140th in putts per round  in round 3 .,.. 

 

So poor driving, poor approach play, poor sand play and below Rickie standards putting 

 

Dude has a lot of work to do!

 

 

 

 

[caniac6]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:21 PM, Holy Moses said:

Just messing. THIS IS A RICKIE THREAD NOT A PHIL THREAD 😄.

When did the original title of a thread ever prevent it from going off the rails?

[BallerNate]

The whole Rickie Fowler thing has been a mystery to me because I just started watching a ton of golf in 2020 during this COVID period...so when I see him in Mercedez commercials and has no more room on his shirt for sponsors logos, and fans screaming for him from the bleachers, it’s a total mystery because when you watch him play he looks like just an average PGA guy. There’s guys that seem way more skilled and talented who get no fanfare at all, so I need to do more research and see how he was able to cash in on all these huge endorsements because I don’t see it.

Edited January 9, 2021 by BallerNate

[swagee]

Meanwhile, 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by swagee

[NV825]

2 hours ago, BallerNate said:

The whole Rickie Fowler thing has been a mystery to me because I just started watching a ton of golf in 2020 during this COVID period...so when I see him in Mercedez commercials and has no more room on his shirt for sponsors logos, and fans screaming for him from the bleachers, it’s a total mystery because when you watch him play he looks like just an average PGA guy. There’s guys that seem way more skilled and talented who get no fanfare at all, so I need to do more research and see how he was able to cash in on all these huge endorsements because I don’t see it.

 

He came in with a lot of flair as a Millenial heartthrob, and has had quite a successful career sans major. Plus from all accounts, he's personable with fans at the tournaments.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by NV825

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, NV825 said:

 

He came in with a lot of flair as a Millenial heartthrob, and has had quite a successful career sans major. Plus from all accounts, he's personable with fans at the tournaments.

 

 

 

 

Ok gotcha, so he came in as a charming pretty boy with high upside as a young golfer and companies banked on him being the next big thing. Well, I’m just learning the ins and outs of golf, but I know Pro sports well...and one thing that’s been proven many times is that money is what separates the great ones from the underachievers. That’s when an athletes true metal is tested...how much work do they put in, and what happens to their drive to be great once they get paid!

[nsxguy]

13 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Ok gotcha, so he came in as a charming pretty boy with high upside as a young golfer and companies banked on him being the next big thing. Well, I’m just learning the ins and outs of golf, but I know Pro sports well...and one thing that’s been proven many times is that money is what separates the great ones from the underachievers. That’s when an athletes true metal is tested...how much work do they put in, and what happens to their drive to be great once they get paid!

 

Ummmmm,,,,,,,,, whut ?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

15 hours ago, NV825 said:

 

He came in with a lot of flair as a Millenial heartthrob, and has had quite a successful career sans major. Plus from all accounts, he's personable with fans at the tournaments.

 

 

 

 

Yup. The underlying message is that you don't need to be a top winner to have superstar status. Being a nice guy with flair, appreciating and respecting others goes a long way. Not a bad message in this toxic Era. 

[BallerNate]

50 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Ummmmm,,,,,,,,, whut ?

My background is in Basketball and Football, so what I was saying is that the GREAT Pro Athletes continue to work on their craft after their big payday and keep grinding on a daily basis and improving on weaknesses, whereas the underachievers don’t maintain the same hunger and drive that got them the big payday after they cash in.
 

I don’t know Rickie’s situation well enough to make this deduction, but it sounds like that’s what a lot of people on this thread are saying...and it seems like golf is similar.
 

It’s more human nature than sport-specific really...some people soften up and start coasting once they get paid, while others are simply driven to be the best and money doesn’t slow down their drive.

Edited January 10, 2021 by BallerNate

[nsxguy]

5 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

My background is in Basketball and Football, so what I was saying is that the GREAT Pro Athletes continue to work on their craft after their big payday and keep grinding on a daily basis and improving on weaknesses, whereas the underachievers don’t maintain the same hunger and drive that got them the big payday after they cash in. I don’t know Rickie’s situation well enough to make this deduction, but it sounds like that’s what a lot of people on this thread are saying...and it seems like golf is similar. It’s more human nature than sport-specific really...some people soften up and start coasting once they get paid, while others are simply driven to be the best and money doesn’t slow down their drive.

 

Only scanned through your post - too tough to read a single long paragraph.

 

But it sounds like you really didn't mean "money is what separates the great ones from the underachievers".

 

   for the clarification.

[BallerNate]

56 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Only scanned through your post - too tough to read a single long paragraph.

 

But it sounds like you really didn't mean "money is what separates the great ones from the underachievers".

 

   for the clarification.

No problem, I broke it up so that it’s more clear.

 

What I meant is that what athletes do on a daily basis with their development and what happens to their drive to excel after they get their payday is what separates good from great!

Edited January 10, 2021 by BallerNate

[BlackDiamondPar5]

A year ago Rickie was 26 owgr this week, he's now 61.  With 2-1/2 months to The Masters I hope he has a path to making the tournament. 

[Holy Moses]

17 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

A year ago Rickie was 26 owgr this week, he's now 61.  With 2-1/2 months to The Masters I hope he has a path to making the tournament. 

Currently working on getting the next sponsor. Game can worry about itself. 

[Ironman_32]

I think we have to remember how difficult it is to stay on tour and be successful. Guys like Charles Howell or Pat Perez, just because they don't have 20 wins each and a major or multiple majors doesn't mean that didn't have fantastic careers. Rickie did win the Players, so thats at least something. 

 

With Rickie, have to remember we can't have everyone be the man, or there would be no "the man". And think of how many guys are labeled the next big thing who had really good careers just not major/multiple major levels. 

 

At the end of the day you basically have two camps, people who think wins are all that matter, and people who think it doesn't matter really if you're still remembered. Not saying all these guys are playing just for popularity, but it is entertainment.  Does it matter more if you have multiple majors (say Martin Kaymer) but people kind of forget about you, or no majors but you're a high draw?