pain relief_severe osteoarthritis of hand (s)

[juliette91]

I've posted before with what I'd been doing for my hand osteoarthritis and unfortunately nothing has worked to allow me to swing the golf club like I know how to do.  Pain is intense and causes: re-routing of the club or dropping the club or an unimaginably weak slash at the ball.  3 hand surgeons offered some hope but 2 year recovery periods and at best 80% chance of some improvement.  80% sounds great but it's the 20% that has me continuing to try to find some way to play.  Stem cell injections, PRP injections, cortisone injection, physical therapy, oxygen injections, saline injections (prolotherapy), rest, massage, A stim (grasston technique), and some chiropractic wrist and elbow adjustments.  Devised my own ibuprofen gel some pieces from internet recipes (mortar and pestle pills, extract the good stuff via 70% ethyl alcohol shaking and settling for 3 days--mix with aloe vera and with and without DMSO to push it into the skin deeply.  Orally ibuprofen or acetomenaphin or naproxen, no help as is MSM or Chondroitin.

 

Not posting for sympathy, please comment if you have had any success personally with lessening the pain.  I'm also daily taking apple cider vinegar with honey to alkalinize a bit inside to lessen inflammation.

 

If I could improve 20% I could play again.  Fwiw I was a pretty low handicapper, recently down to a 1.0

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and hope "crowd sourcing" a pain remedy might help.

[nikeblades00]

Have your tried CBD? I know a few golfers who swear by it for shoulder and hip arthritis. .  They say a strong and reputable product is most important. 

 

Where exactly is your pain? Is it mostly in the joints of the fingers or more palm?

[caniac6]

I have some arthritis, but not anything close to what you have. I would get the surgery, and if that didn't work, I'd quit. I really love to play, and don't know how I would do with out it, but I'm not going to put myself through a bunch of pain. Good luck.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I love your homemade solution. We'd probably get along 🙂

 

Anyway did you look at Voltaren? It's a topical pain reliever/anti-inflammatory that you can apply 4x daily. It will likely take a week to work but it could be your answer. It previously was prescription only and is specifically for OA. Available pretty much at all drugstores though it's quite popular and can be in shorter supply. 

 

Obviously do your own research and talk to your doctor. Good luck. 

[GLF4EVR]

62 & osteoarthritis in the hands.  Try about everything & have surgery as a last resort.  The rheumatologist that my wife & I used to see was known nationally.  Plus have been an x-ray/CT tech for 38 years & worked with many orthopedic surgeons.  The rheumatologist used to always say that the biggest trick is to find out something that works for you specifically, & then to take it on a continual basis.  It might just be over the counter stuff, or prescription, or a combination of both.  Every single person is going to be different, so have to experiment to see what works.  Years before said rheumatologist retired, he started me on just straight glucosamine/chondroitin complex.  That was all I needed for a long time.  I would wake up in the morning with all body parts in agreement on the direction I was wanting to go.  The fingers of both hands started to have more consistent pain issues 2-3 years ago. Tried a few prescription meds, but found over the counter stuff was more effective.  For over a year I now take 600mg ibuprofen in the morning & again in the evening.  Yes, I have blood tests 3-4 times a year so this has not had any affect on liver, kidney, etc.

 

During the "discovery" phase of the ibuprofen, the Equate brand of aspercreme would work well for me.  Then found the veterinary Absorbine Jr. gel would work very well.  I would have already tried CBD oil, but work for the federal government so have to wait until I retire for that one.  The golf season is now over where I live.  Would like to try to get away from daily ibuprofen if I can.  So going to try Resveratrol to see how that works.  Will try it for 120 days minimum to see how it works.  Considering all the "experimentation" I did in my teens & twenties, this just seems as a continuation of that.  But I can actually get real prescriptions now!  Just to add, always have a good supply of hydrocodone.  My physician knows 90 of them will last me an entire year since you cannot get refills anymore.  Just like to have them on hand when doing all of the many things I do at home.  Like I will have a day of doing fencing, fence posts, pulling line, etc.  Will take one before the day starts & always happy the next morning that I had done that.  Just try to stay ahead of it.

 

Again, want to stress about surgery being the last resort.  There is no "redo" or experimentation with surgery. 

[golfgirlrobin]

Give the Voltaren a real try.  My left knee is not so slowly disintegrating from arthritis and then I went and tore my meniscus.  Three or four days on Voltaren and I could feel improvement and within two weeks, the whole knee was tremendously better.  I now use a small amount before I play and it’s a lifesaver.  
 

You can’t take any other NSAIDS with it, but it’s amazing for reducing the inflammation. 

[Stuart_G]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:32 PM, juliette91 said:

I've posted before with what I'd been doing for my hand osteoarthritis and unfortunately nothing has worked to allow me to swing the golf club like I know how to do.  Pain is intense and causes: re-routing of the club or dropping the club or an unimaginably weak slash at the ball.  3 hand surgeons offered some hope but 2 year recovery periods and at best 80% chance of some improvement.  80% sounds great but it's the 20% that has me continuing to try to find some way to play.  Stem cell injections, PRP injections, cortisone injection, physical therapy, oxygen injections, saline injections (prolotherapy), rest, massage, A stim (grasston technique), and some chiropractic wrist and elbow adjustments.  Devised my own ibuprofen gel some pieces from internet recipes (mortar and pestle pills, extract the good stuff via 70% ethyl alcohol shaking and settling for 3 days--mix with aloe vera and with and without DMSO to push it into the skin deeply.  Orally ibuprofen or acetomenaphin or naproxen, no help as is MSM or Chondroitin.

 

Not posting for sympathy, please comment if you have had any success personally with lessening the pain.  I'm also daily taking apple cider vinegar with honey to alkalinize a bit inside to lessen inflammation.

 

If I could improve 20% I could play again.  Fwiw I was a pretty low handicapper, recently down to a 1.0

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and hope "crowd sourcing" a pain remedy might help.

 

Sorry if you may have mentioned it in previous posts - but have you looked at equipment changes to help - graphite shafts? different grip sizes and textures? different shaft weights?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

@juliette91did you take a look at at Voltaren yet? It potentially could be a great help. 

[vernon]

The base of my left thumb joint is bone on bone and has been for close to ten years.  I've been to several hand surgeons each of which has recommended reconstructive surgery but as mentioned above that is an absolute last resort.

 

Early summer of this year I hurt it pretty bad striking a tree root that I couldn't see with a five iron.  Couldn't play at all for several weeks but a friend recommended Valtaren and DMSO.  I also visited a different hand specialist who made the same diagnosis of bone on bone and also recommended reconstruction of the joint.  I was a little surprised that he said most of his patients were able to return to golf in ten to twelve weeks and I gotta admit I was tempted.

 

However, he gave me a thumb brace (called a Push Meta Grip) that he said I could wear while playing if I wanted to give it a shot and it worked surprisingly well.  Started slowly hitting chips and pitches as it took a while to get used to but is was doable.  I continued with the Voltaren and DMSO and the brace and a couple weeks later decided to try and play and it worked better than I ever would have expected.  And after a couple months I was slowly able to wean myself off of the brace at first by only wearing it for full swings and then only for drivers and finally no brace at all.

 

After a couple months of applying the Volataren and DMSO several times a day and playing in the summer heat and humidity I developed a pretty nasty rash and ceased using it.  Somehow the pain has still remained manageable and I am beyond grateful for that.

 

I keep the brace in my golf bag just in case but so far so good.

 

Now I'd be lying if I said that I was pain free as I'm certainly not.  But it's at a level that I can handle and while not playing great at least I'm out there and that's all I ever really hoped for.

 

Good luck man.

 

[juliette91]

Thanks Vernon.  I haven't tried voltaren, have been making my own ibuprofen gel but will give it a try.  I do use DMSO but not sure I'm using it correctly.  It's main value is that it penetrates quickly deeply and we have 3 epidermal layers to go through to get to nerves so I apply my gel and then droplets of the DMSO.  How do you apply the DMSO?  First voltaren and then DMSO or ?

 

I will check out this brace you're referring to but could you give me a link to what it looks like?

 

thank you!

[juliette91]

Stuart G--my pain is in the takeaway, transition and beginning of the downswing so shaft vibration etc. is not in the mix.  Mine is all prior to impact.

Thank you for your kind advice. and 

Black Diamond, thanks for the Volaren suggestion, I responded to Vernon about it.

[vernon]

6 hours ago, juliette91 said:

Thanks Vernon.  I haven't tried voltaren, have been making my own ibuprofen gel but will give it a try.  I do use DMSO but not sure I'm using it correctly.  It's main value is that it penetrates quickly deeply and we have 3 epidermal layers to go through to get to nerves so I apply my gel and then droplets of the DMSO.  How do you apply the DMSO?  First voltaren and then DMSO or ?

 

I will check out this brace you're referring to but could you give me a link to what it looks like?

 

thank you!

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Sorry for the huge size of the paste job but I'm not too savvy at this stuff but this is what I've got although I didn't buy it from this site as the hand doc provided mine.  Nonetheless, this is the exact same thing.  You might want to shop around a little bit as there may or may not be better prices from other sources.  Also, I apply the Voltaren first then a few drops of DMSO and rub it into the affected area.  The DMSO that I use is a liquid with an eyedropper type applicator.  A little bit seems to go a long way.

[vernon]

Those of you that are willing to think outside the "box" of traditional modern medicine might find this video of interest.  

 

Personally I think what he practices makes way more sense than what most doc's are telling and doing to us.

 

I've utilized quite a few of his techniques with significant success and am a big fan of chiropractic.  Just another avenue to consider.

 

 

[juliette91]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:11 PM, vernon said:

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Sorry for the huge size of the paste job but I'm not too savvy at this stuff but this is what I've got although I didn't buy it from this site as the hand doc provided mine.  Nonetheless, this is the exact same thing.  You might want to shop around a little bit as there may or may not be better prices from other sources.  Also, I apply the Voltaren first then a few drops of DMSO and rub it into the affected area.  The DMSO that I use is a liquid with an eyedropper type applicator.  A little bit seems to go a long way.

Many thanks Vernon!  Do you know from first hand experience that the thumb brace will fit within a golf glove + without a real thumb pad--now covered up by the metal brace--can you grip and hold on to the club (not talking about the arthritis, just the impediment of the brace)?  Thank you!!!

[Barfolomew]

Learn to loosen your grip to an extreme amount.... barely grip the club.  From driver to putter. You'll be surprised that you still have full control.

 

Jumbo grips

 

warm up hands with a squeeze toy don't play Cold handed. Arthritis does not like to be shocked.

 

CBD lotion does work

 

I've played tourneys with a splint on my middle finger cause of pain in joint,  great for flipping off other players. 

 

Dont over practice or play

[vernon]

2 hours ago, juliette91 said:

Many thanks Vernon!  Do you know from first hand experience that the thumb brace will fit within a golf glove + without a real thumb pad--now covered up by the metal brace--can you grip and hold on to the club (not talking about the arthritis, just the impediment of the brace)?  Thank you!!!

The brace will fit under a golf glove however I preferred to wear it on the outside.  It worked OK underneath but after a little trial and error I opted for outside the glove.  Now I take my glove off in between shots and never wear it  for putting or around the green so that made for a lot of on and off.  But once you've done it a few times you'll find the brace is really fast and easy to take off and put back on and it didn't take much at all before it was pretty much routine.  I

 

As for holding the club, the first time I put the brace on and grabbed a club my first reaction was, no way this is gonna work.  But I'm about equal parts stubborn and at this point desperate and it turned out that after only a few half swings I started to become a little more optimistic.  By the time I'd hit fifteen or twenty range balls I was beginning to get downright excited as I didn't really expect to be able to play that day but now I knew it was doable.

 

The first couple of rounds I had a full shot here and there that I kind of lost the grip a bit and hit it a little squirely but, hey, I was out there playing and it ain't like I didn't hit a few squirely shots here and there before either.

 

Now I'm not saying that it's perfect cause it ain't but if it's a matter of being able to hit balls and play or sit at home and watch cartoons I'm down with it.  I even found out pretty quickly that there were certain shots and things that I could do without it and still be OK but you just need to experiment until you find what works for you and what you're comfortable with.

 

I doubt a guy could make the cut in a Tour event with the brace on but if I can go out and play and still shoot scores within four or five shots of where I was before then I'm OK with it.  And hopefully you will have a similar experience as me in that the brace allows the thumb a chance to recover and actually get a little better after a while.

 

Either way, it's a pretty cheap investment to find out.  Best of luck!

[golfarb1]

Voltaren is promoted as being effective for arthritis . The instructions state that it is. suggested for use if the pain is relatively near the surface( like the fingers, wrist or knee ,)but is not effective for problems with deeper tissues , such as the shoulders. It used to be “black boxed”, so be careful if you have cardiovascular problems.

I take CBD oil for other reasons .If you decide to go the CBD oil route , buy those products , which include some  THC.In your case it is worth trying, , since there appears to be little negative interactions.

Try warming up the entire hand/ wrist/ fingers in a warm parafin solution and then do some specific thumb exercises( with help from the other hand)

twirls(rotations)

back and forth 

up and down

Then try loosening up the entire hand  by  quickly moving your hand randomly for about 15 seconds. Finally buy some K- Tape and experiment with placing it various positions( YouTube)

As a last resort try playing with only one arm. 

[GLF4EVR]

Just to post this in for those keeping up with this topic.  I am about 20 days into trying resveratrol for osteoarthritis.  Yesterday my hands got a bunch of work in.  Had to replace a fan clutch in a 2003 Dodge cummings.  Repair two stock water tanks. Repair two lines of fencing & rewire some snow fencing back into place.  Then get a weeks supply of firewood in.  Normally I would be feeling it in my fingers today.....still & sore.  However, if I were to place the discomfort on the 1 to 10 scale...I would go with 0.7.  Still early into it so do not want to get hopeful yet.  Doing this as a 3 month trial.

 

The research I had done prior recommended at least a 2.5g dose.  I am currently taking 3g daily dose.  Next doctors appt. & labs is in March.  My physician is fully behind this.  Will attempt to cut my daily ibuprofen intake.  You just have to find what works.  Everyone will be different.  I had tried Voltaren back when it first came out as prescription only.  Did not do a thing.  Three years I am out of the federal government, so will try CBD then.

[Pepperturbo]

I have been coping with serious osteoarthritis in both hands, hips and knees for sometime now.  I won't go into details except to say, no drugs for me.  If I use a drug its Tylenol 500 mg.  Thank God for a high pain tolerance.  And historically, the gym help me overcome its ability to slow me down.  

[juliette91]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:39 PM, GLF4EVR said:

Just to post this in for those keeping up with this topic.  I am about 20 days into trying resveratrol for osteoarthritis.  Yesterday my hands got a bunch of work in.  Had to replace a fan clutch in a 2003 Dodge cummings.  Repair two stock water tanks. Repair two lines of fencing & rewire some snow fencing back into place.  Then get a weeks supply of firewood in.  Normally I would be feeling it in my fingers today.....still & sore.  However, if I were to place the discomfort on the 1 to 10 scale...I would go with 0.7.  Still early into it so do not want to get hopeful yet.  Doing this as a 3 month trial.

 

The research I had done prior recommended at least a 2.5g dose.  I am currently taking 3g daily dose.  Next doctors appt. & labs is in March.  My physician is fully behind this.  Will attempt to cut my daily ibuprofen intake.  You just have to find what works.  Everyone will be different.  I had tried Voltaren back when it first came out as prescription only.  Did not do a thing.  Three years I am out of the federal government, so will try CBD then.

Thank you for posting.  So are you taking a pill or ?  What brand did you buy?  Do you think it can be made into a gel like I've done with ibuprofen?  I crush the ibuprofen into a powder, then add 70% isopropyl alcohol and shake it up. (like in a 4 dram size bottle--about 15-18 200 mg pills) then I shake it periodically for about 3 days until all the non ibuprofen extra crap has settled out.  Then I eyedropper the now ibuprofen/alcohol liquid into a very pure aloe gel, add some dmso (few drops with each use) and it penetrates reasonably well into the 3rd skin layer.  Can this be done with resveratol?  Your good results are encouraging but like you say each person has to find what works for them.  

[juliette91]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:01 PM, golfarb1 said:

Voltaren is promoted as being effective for arthritis . The instructions state that it is. suggested for use if the pain is relatively near the surface( like the fingers, wrist or knee ,)but is not effective for problems with deeper tissues , such as the shoulders. It used to be “black boxed”, so be careful if you have cardiovascular problems.

I take CBD oil for other reasons .If you decide to go the CBD oil route , buy those products , which include some  THC.In your case it is worth trying, , since there appears to be little negative interactions.

Try warming up the entire hand/ wrist/ fingers in a warm parafin solution and then do some specific thumb exercises( with help from the other hand)

twirls(rotations)

back and forth 

up and down

Then try loosening up the entire hand  by  quickly moving your hand randomly for about 15 seconds. Finally buy some K- Tape and experiment with placing it various positions( YouTube)

As a last resort try playing with only one arm. 

Yes I had the same zero effect with Voltaren and unfortunately with CBD oil too.  Have tried paraffin and that offers temporary relief to me.  Use K tape all the time.  Know it sounds weird but currently my "go to" is the ibuprofen gel I described in a recent post, a lidocaine/aspercreme ointment, "corganics" cream, dmso (few drops).  Get some benefit from this--enough to play about 6-7 holes and hold on to the club for the most part.  I bring it with me golfing and apply it about the 4th hole so it'll be ready to go by the 7th hole.  Thanks for the exercise posts--not sure I can follow the directions you give--would love to have a diagram aid.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Just curious for you guys reporting no effect from Voltaren in your hands.  How many times/day did you use it and for how many consecutive days before you decided it didn't help?  I ask because on the box it says may take 7 days, up to 4x per day to work.  For me I had a Dr recommend it for my very chronic tendonitis (tennis elblow) and said to be regimented about it; 4x per day, really massaging it in.  Said it would take weeks or more to really feel anything and to stick with it for a few months.  After about a month 1 started feeling improvement and by month 3 it was significantly better so I stopped.  I continued golfing all the while which was always a factor that aggravated it.  

 

Yeah I know tendonitis is not OA, but I just want to make sure you gave it appropriate time to work or decide it didn't work before you gave up.    

Edited January 14, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[GLF4EVR]

13 hours ago, juliette91 said:

Thank you for posting.  So are you taking a pill or ?  What brand did you buy?  Do you think it can be made into a gel like I've done with ibuprofen?  I crush the ibuprofen into a powder, then add 70% isopropyl alcohol and shake it up. (like in a 4 dram size bottle--about 15-18 200 mg pills) then I shake it periodically for about 3 days until all the non ibuprofen extra crap has settled out.  Then I eyedropper the now ibuprofen/alcohol liquid into a very pure aloe gel, add some dmso (few drops with each use) and it penetrates reasonably well into the 3rd skin layer.  Can this be done with resveratol?  Your good results are encouraging but like you say each person has to find what works for them.  

I am taking it in pill form.  The pill should be easier to break down to the gel form.  The pill is in a capsule & it appears to already be in a powder form inside the capsule.  Dosage is one of the things with resveratrol that took some research.  Of the studies that were really done on resveratrol, it was recommended that a daily dose of 2.5 grams (2500mg), be taken for it to be effective.  The dosage I have started out on is 3 grams daily.  I take it in the morning during breakfast, along with most of my other meds.  I just picked one off of eBay...of course looked into the brand a little before the purchase.  

 

[GLF4EVR]

1 hour ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Just curious for you guys reporting no effect from Voltaren in your hands.  How many times/day did you use it and for how many consecutive days before you decided it didn't help?  I ask because on the box it says may take 7 days, up to 4x per day to work.  For me I had a Dr recommend it for my very chronic tendonitis (tennis elblow) and said to be regimented about it; 4x per day, really massaging it in.  Said it would take weeks or more to really feel anything and to stick with it for a few months.  After about a month 1 started feeling improvement and by month 3 it was significantly better so I stopped.  I continued golfing all the while which was always a factor that aggravated it.  

 

Yeah I know tendonitis is not OA, but I just want to make sure you gave it appropriate time to work or decide it didn't work before you gave up.    

I used the entire tube of it.  Could not tell you what the exact directions were on the tube.  This was back when it was only available with a prescription.  There was some relief I had with it, but for me it just was not worth the effort involved.  Having to apply it several times every day, when there are only one or two days of the week that I actually need the relief.  I found I had the same, if not better benefit of just applying an over the counter topical about an hour before the hands were to get a heavy workout. The 2 topicals I use are either the Equate brand of aspercream or veterinary strength Absorbine Jr. gel. 

[juliette91]

Alas I’m officially done with golf unless and until some hand surgery is effective.  Could not take it anymore.  Tried every cream gel mentioned here and 5 others not mentioned.  Thank you all!

[juliette91]

Realize I might be talking to myself here but: I did try the push meta brace that Vernon recommended.  I can't seem to hold the club properly while wearing it and I don't notice any pain relief.

I am working on a workaround in order to play, something that involves the club bearing the least amount of weight on the hands.  That turns out to be very close to Matthew Wolff's swing only he's so much more athletic I could never turn as much as he does and not get dizzy trying to reorient my head back to where it all began

 

best to all

[vernon]

On 2/23/2021 at 10:44 PM, juliette91 said:

Realize I might be talking to myself here but: I did try the push meta brace that Vernon recommended.  I can't seem to hold the club properly while wearing it and I don't notice any pain relief.

I am working on a workaround in order to play, something that involves the club bearing the least amount of weight on the hands.  That turns out to be very close to Matthew Wolff's swing only he's so much more athletic I could never turn as much as he does and not get dizzy trying to reorient my head back to where it all began

 

best to all

Sorry to hear that the brace didn't work out for you.  Best of luck moving forward and I'll be sure and let you know if I stumble across any other things to try.  Us broke down cripples have to look out for one another.

[Pepperturbo]

On 1/14/2021 at 6:27 AM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Just curious for you guys reporting no effect from Voltaren in your hands.  How many times/day did you use it and for how many consecutive days before you decided it didn't help?  I ask because on the box it says may take 7 days, up to 4x per day to work.  For me I had a Dr recommend it for my very chronic tendonitis (tennis elblow) and said to be regimented about it; 4x per day, really massaging it in.  Said it would take weeks or more to really feel anything and to stick with it for a few months.  After about a month 1 started feeling improvement and by month 3 it was significantly better so I stopped.  I continued golfing all the while which was always a factor that aggravated it.  

 

Yeah I know tendonitis is not OA, but I just want to make sure you gave it appropriate time to work or decide it didn't work before you gave up.    

I cope with osteoarthritis in hands, knees and hips, and still buy Diclofenac gel 1% (Voltaren over the counter) via prescription.  Been using it for a while now on both knees and back of my wrists before every round of golf, and before I go to the gym; it's quite effective.

 

Thankfully, I have a high pain tolerance so don't use it much otherwise, just Tylenol.  My Dr buddies say the key is using the proper dose.  Its so strong it can have a burn like effect on the skill if misused.  It's mainly for smaller joints/bones, like elbows, hands, knees, ankles, etc. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[juliette91]

Thank you to all who have responded.  I was visiting my hand surgeon for a final consult before scheduled surgery and he announced he was retiring.  Referred me to his colleague.  That exam proved to be the best consult I'd ever had on my arthritic hands.  Long story shortened, the pain issue I experience is not in my thumb joint or even the basal thumb area of the actual arthritic STT joint, it's in my wrist.  The stress of the arthritis in my joint has pulled on the ligaments that stretch across the back of my wrist and in turn those ligaments have now been stretched out and no longer are taut enough to support the bone structures in the back of my wrist.  So one bone in particular, the lunate, has basically turned 180 degrees around because It's no longer supported by the ligament very well.  Movement often causes considerable pain when that joint flexes---which it does pretty much throughout a normal golf swing.  Bottom line from him:  there is no surgery for this problem other than the kind of surgeries that will severely restrict wrist rotation.  Until and unless I can no longer function day to day--like opening the toothpaste or sleeping or turning a door knob or getting dressed--don't bother with surgery it's too fraught with problems.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by juliette91
grammar

[GLF4EVR]

Sorry to hear @juliette91 that it is something that cannot be  corrected.  The one bright spot is at least you have a good explanation of what is going on.  There are 8 bones in the wrist.  The lunate is not part of the SST, but it is right next to the scaphoid.  So guessing bone fusion is about the only surgical option they have.  Still hope you can find something to at least get buy.  Just thinking, some of the braces that really restrict wrist movement may give you a slight idea of what it might be like after such a surgery is done.  Best of wishes with the wrist!

 

One my end, the resveratrol did not work.  Have my next doctors appointment this Friday to try something else.  Even though I have 3 years left of federal work....might go with the CBD oil.  Have already been looking at what is on the market.