Do you really need a wedge with more loft than 55 or 56 degree in your bag...

[nitram]

@ChipNRun

 

Its a small world brother. I've played Sill dozens of times. The Corps sent me to 29 stumps instead, but then again I wasn't artillery although I once was staff NCO on an artillery security team. Semper Fi

[Myherobobhope]

6 minutes ago, rkillian said:

While I'm not quite sure I had much of a point in mind, thanks anyway haha. I have room in the bag right now and even if I went 52/56/60 that would take me to 13 and that may be what I do next. But I do have to say, using a 52 for as much as possible inside 100 yards and moving to the 58 only when it seems its truley called for is working ok. I know what a half swing with each does which is helpful.  For me and where my current journey through golf is, options can ge a blessing or a curse. 

 

One of my goals this offseason is to get onto a simulator with a decent amount of time, and grind out the feel of a 3/4 swing and 1/2 swing with all my wedges (and hopefully the rest of my irons) so I have options from distances. It will hopefully allow me more consistency inside 100 yards so I can hit more greens. We will see! It and putting are my two big goals this offseason.

[tehuti]

I currently carry a 49* GW and a 56* SW. But I am considering maybe adding a 52* wedge back into my bag. However, I am not interested in anything higher than 56*. When I play with guys who have 58*-60* wedges they tend to use them around the green when they should probably be hitting the shot with a PW or 9 iron. For me there are almost no instances that I can imagine where I would "need" anything higher lofted than the 56*.

[SwingMan]

8 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

....if you can open up your 55 or 56 degree wedge because the grind enables it and you have the skill/technique?

 

The advantage to "capping" your wedges at 55 or 56 degrees can be only 3 wedges needed: mid 40 degree PW, c.50 degree GW then your 55/56 degree SW.

 

So your SW does double duty as a lob wedge.

 

Naturally this opens up a slot in your bag for another club.

 

Some will say more wedges and so greater versatility at the short end of your bag is more important. Maybe less wedges though simplifies your decision making per shot and builds your familiarity and so execution with the lesser number of clubs.

 

What are the considerations? Technique? Grind? Simplified club selection vs versatility?

 

I don't think you can open a 55-56 enough on some shots before you can't - the grind can limit you. I like a 58-59 as the tweeter lob wedge. It can stay low or very high and you don't need to open it outlandishly. Some also prefer a higher bounce grind in the 54-56 and more trailing edge relief on the 58-60.  I think a 58 is more useful right around the green to a close flag.

 

I can go 49-54-59 or 50-54-58 or some variation.

Edited December 11, 2020 by SwingMan

[hybrid25]

I have a 54* sw that is used often. When I open it up I can turn it into a 60* like wedge shot. I really don't trust myself doing that during competitive golf, but it's amazing what the possibilities are for an accomplished golfer. I think a 58*, with the right bounce, can be used like a 60-62* wedge without much difficulty.

[1Mordrid1]

8 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

....if you can open up your 55 or 56 degree wedge because the grind enables it and you have the skill/technique?

 

The advantage to "capping" your wedges at 55 or 56 degrees can be only 3 wedges needed: mid 40 degree PW, c.50 degree GW then your 55/56 degree SW.

 

So your SW does double duty as a lob wedge.

 

Naturally this opens up a slot in your bag for another club.

 

Some will say more wedges and so greater versatility at the short end of your bag is more important. Maybe less wedges though simplifies your decision making per shot and builds your familiarity and so execution with the lesser number of clubs.

 

What are the considerations? Technique? Grind? Simplified club selection vs versatility?

Here in Phoenix, the bunkers suck at most courses...Some nice courses have decent bunkers but a lot of the bunkers here are a thin layers of sand on top of packed "hardpan", or some don't even have that thin layer on top. So in some of our bunkers, bounce is not your friend, so opening up a sand wedge or a lower lofted club just compounds the issue.

 

In this situation loft and low bounce is your friend, because you can close the face of a 60 degree wedge so that the leading edge will dig into this packed sand and allow you to hit a bunker style shot.

 

The other issue can be spin. The grooves of most clubs are designed produce the most spin when square. Yes design has come a long way and new designs allow some wedges to maintain a lot more of the spin with the face manipulated. But if you need or want to hit a high shot with a lot of spin, more loft will be more effective than face manipulation.

Edited December 11, 2020 by 1Mordrid1

[ChipNRun]

57 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

You can implement the clock system with any 4 clubs.  9 iron, PW, GW, SW will work fine too. The advantage of the LW is that it can be played shorter than the 1/2 or 1/4 swing SW. 

Maaaany years ago I lived in Enid, OK, and the public course pro encouraged his students to develop a half-swing arsenal. He had us work on a half swing with our shorter clubs, 7i up through SW. (this was before SW and GW were prominent.) This worked well for a couple of years, but then I had two seasons with no time for golf, and I never got it back.

 

58 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

And that's where it shined for Kite. Like his famous holeout on #7 at Pebble Beach in 92.

 

Ah, yes. I saw Kite in action at the 2004 US Senior Open at Bellerive CC in St. Louis. On one hole, he drove into the rough on a par 4. He laid up short of the green, leaving him about 82 yards from the hole. From chatter with his caddie, I gathered this was his ideal distance for LW. But, he was on an uphill lie, and was unsettled over the shot. Kite dropped the LW shot a foot from the hole, but it spun back to the fringe and he ended up with bogie.

[RobotDoctor]

7 hours ago, braincramp52 said:

In the area I live a 58 works better with the sand we have. I'd never give up my 58.

 

I agree with braincamp52!  I have come to depend on my 58° LW for a variety of shots from greenside (bunker, rough) to shots within 80-85 yards, flop shots, punch and run shots, shots that will hop two or three times then stop.  My 58° LW has become one of my most dependable clubs in my bag, one that I have as much trust in than any other.

[2bGood]

I really like having multiple bounce options. My 56 is high bounce with is great for some shots and some sand and 60 is more mid to low bounce with I like for other shots and harder sand.

 

I supposed I could rotate wedges in and out of the bag based on the course condition or weather as I mostly use my 60* on my home course most of the year given the type of sand we have. 

 

I am one of those folks that will play a 'full' 60* wedge. It is a controlled wedge swing but goes 95 yards and this tend to be a good number to have in the bag for me.

[NoTalentLefty]

For me no way. BUT if you can use one correctly and practice with it go for it. Believe they can be used for fast hard greens and where landing a ball to a tight pin placements much better than a 56 degree with a wide open blade. 

[NRJyzr]

9 hours ago, braincramp52 said:

In the area I live a 58 works better with the sand we have. I'd never give up my 58.

 

In my opinion, a 58* is a SW.   <shrug>

 

Being topical....  you can play with a 56* as your highest loft.  I've done it for long periods with no change in my overall scores.  But its highly player dependent.

 

These days, I'll go to 58* most of the time, and sometimes carry a 60*, a fair portion of that due to bunkers at my course, and that I've become accustomed to that loft range in my bag.  🙂

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by NRJyzr

[llewol007]

Ive done this already to where I carry just a Pw, 52 and 60. The versatility with my 52 just opens the options for me. In the bunker, Im usually opening up a 56 anyways so with the 60, Im pretty much where I need to be specially when talking about greenside bunkers. Really dont need the 56 for me so that opens up one slot or I just carry 13 clubs. 1 club less equals 2 cans of beer. 

[bullie76]

In my 2nd bag that I keep at my vacation condo, I have a pw, gap and 56*. And only 12 clubs. Works just fine. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by bullie76
.

[sailfishchris]

I played a 56* till I started playing more tournaments. A few of them played on courses with what I would call hard, fast greens. If the pin was front I couldn't stop the ball  and if I landed it before the green it just stayed put. That was one of my reasons for going to the 60*. The other.... hardpan bunkers 60* just cuts through easier.

Edited December 11, 2020 by sailfishchris

[mharr]

As you have pointed out, yes, it is sometimes useful to have the 60º wedge.

 

I carry one as more or less a specialty club.  It is an older Cleveland 588 with only 4º bounce.  I use it on wet sand (you know, after a recent rain and the sand is like concrete?) or hard-pan lie around the green.  In both cases, I don't want the 10-12º of bounce that a regular SW has (but of course, still want the high bounce for soft sand/ground conditions).  

 

So it's not so much 60º, it's the difference in the bounce that I want.

[new2g0lf]

Anything 50 yards or less I use a lob wedge, 50-100 is SW.  I used to use SW for everything 100 and less but the lob wedge gives me a little more flexibility, especially out of the sand when short sided.  

[Sean2]

It's not so much what you need, as to what you prefer and what works best for you. I have both a 58º and a 62º. It works for me. 

[ChipNRun]

6 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

Its not a debate of whether a 60 or 56 is better around the green.  That is dumb debate, it is 100% player specific.  Whether or not to use the clock system with 2-3-4 wedges is an interesting debate - I think it probably does, which is why I play a LW.

 

Also, it can be turf-specific, especially when you face different actions of greens crews.

 

If it's been raining for two days, and the greenside areas haven't been mowed, a LW may not be the club. The 54° SW more clubface on the ball quicker out of uneven shag than a 58° LW (a bit too much loft).

 

Another situation: If no rain in two weeks, if the green is in the wide open sun, a pitch and run with PW off first-cut may be best, because a LW would come down too steep and ricochet upon landing.

 

A 20-yard shot over a greenside ridge... a 40-yard dart into the upper shelf of a terraced green... that's where the LW makes money.

 

{Shot skill + turf awareness} = short putts

[Pepperturbo]

To the OP.  "Do you really need...?" No, but depends on how you learned to use your clubs/wedges.  As far as the bag is concerned, 58/60* Lob Wedge hasn't always been around.  When I took up the game at 40, in 1990 it was still not a club most golfers carried, 56* was the common low lofted wedge.

 

What's needed in the bag, as I see it.  Every iron should have at least 3-distances, 10-12yds long, standard carry distance, and 10-12yds short, regardless of strong or weak lofts.  No gaps because you have the ability to adjust your swing length.  I carry 47* PW, 52* SW and 58* LW, and I can do everything with those 3 inside of about 125-130 yds, and my 9i is 130yd club, etc.

 

Where we've got off line with strong lofts, people see yardage gaps and look for a club to fill it, as opposed to learning to adjust swing length and picking another club to cover the artificial gap.  We only have 13 clubs but you have a lot more than the obvious.  For example, I can use 180yd 4i for 140yds if I need to or 3i for 130yds etc, by adjusting swing length and my setup. 

 

But what this ends up being, least for the average person that carries multiple wedges, each wedge really means one full swing; in other words, if you got 4 wedges all you got is 4 swings, loft is the difference.  That is the express reason more wedges and strong lofts came into the picture.  People couldn't easily make 3/4, half or 1/4 swings, they'd rather buy clubs.

 

Damn, I love this game.  Can't wait to play this weekend.

[DaveGoodrich]

11 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

Personally, for my game, on the variety of courses I regularly play - 100%, yes, I want to have the 60 LW in the quiver.

 

It's a super versatile club for me:

• Hard sand or thin sand over hardpan bunker shots are just as common here as regular, softer sand. Playing muni/public courses, bunker consistency is not something I can count on. The low-bounce 60 is far less at risk for skipping off the hard surface and blading a ball over the green. My regular SW is a relatively high bounce (for the other sorts of bunkers where the sand is deeper/softer), and opening it up exposes more bounce, which can put those skipped blades into play. No bueno.
• Short sided chip shots off tighter lies. Same logic as above - tighter lies are more comfortable to me with less bounce in play. Sure, if the lie isn't super tight or firm, I can easily open up a SW for more loft, but sometimes it's not.
• Sometimes, you just have to hit the high flying lob/flop shot. Again, depending on lie/bounce, a SW can do this, but the LW gives another option and can pull of the more extreme version of this more reliably.

So for me, it mostly comes down to having options on bounce, more than loft.

 

I almost never hit a full LW, so that's not a shot I worry about. I'm very comfortable hitting partial wedges with my SW/GW, so that is covered.

 

 

This post exactly describes why I carry a low bounce 60.  I don't understand why folks want fewer options around the green, where it can be so easy to turn 3 shots into 2 when you have the right tool at hand.  True, there is an opportunity cost, but for me, I couldn't find a different "14th club" that could save/gain as many strokes.  The problem for most folks isn't carrying a lob wedge, it's using it when they shouldn't.

 

Edit: another reason for the LW: it goes higher/softer without opening the face (or without opening it as much).  Sure, you can open the face to add loft to a SW, but I'd rather have my short game shots be something closer to my normal swing, rather than having to set up and swing much differently than "normal."  

Edited December 12, 2020 by DaveGoodrich

[B.W.]

I am liking my current setup which is 50-56-56. I have a different grind and more bounce on the 56 compared to the 60. I use my 60 almost exclusively from 100 down to 30 yards out and mix it up depending on the shot from 30 and in. I’d really miss the 60 if I took it out and wouldn’t get the equivalent benefit from putting a 3 iron back in. 

[DaveGoodrich]

 

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

But what this ends up being, least for the average person that carries multiple wedges, each wedge really means one full swing; in other words, if you got 4 wedges all you got is 4 swings, loft is the difference.  That is the express reason more wedges and strong lofts came into the picture.  People couldn't easily make 3/4, half or 1/4 swings, they'd rather buy clubs.

 

This may be true for higher cap players.  But playing more wedges isn't always just about trying to make everything a "stock" distance.  For someone with the skill to hit the partial shots you mention, more wedges will mean more options for trajectory and spin at any distances inside the pitching wedge.  For me, I think that having those options helps my scoring more than something else I could put in play if I took out a wedge.   

[VA_Astra]

I cary 4 wedges...PW, 48, 54 and 58.

 

I use my 58 ALL the time around the greens and usually from 30 yards in. My 54 is used for longer chip shots, or other areas I need the bounce and loft. I have different grinds on all of the wedges because I play a verity of shots. My shortgame is the reason I have my HC and Score every week. Why limit yourself, get creative and learn how to make different shots.

[b.mattay]

Yes, I really prefer having a club with more loft than 56 degrees. I play 90+ % of greenside shots with a 60 degree opened up (degree of openness varies). Easiest way to short game for me. Could I play a 56 as my highest lofted club? Sure. Is it optimal when you play courses with fast greens? No

Edited December 12, 2020 by b.mattay

[Davidv]

Works for me out of the sand, shots over a bunker, etc. 58 or 60 degree lob wedge is a great tool when needed why not use it, sure simpler and more efficient than opening up your sw.

[NRJyzr]

13 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

To the OP.  "Do you really need...?" No, but depends on how you learned to use your clubs/wedges.  As far as the bag is concerned, 58/60* Lob Wedge hasn't always been around.  When I took up the game at 40, in 1990 it was still not a club most golfers carried, 56* was the common low lofted wedge.

 

 

Wanted to micro-address this point.

 

These lofts *have* been around for a long time.  A collector of classic wedges tells me a considerable number of the sand irons he has acquired are 58* or 60*.  These go back to the 40s and 30s, to the creation of the club. 

 

In the era of 53* or 52* PW lofts, many sand wedges were 58* standard.  

 

The 55* or 56* SW is as much a product of loft creep as the 20* 7 wood.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by NRJyzr

[Hawkeye77]

Yes, I do.

[scomac2002]

21 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

These lofts *have* been around for a long time.  A collector of classic wedges tells me a considerable number of the sand irons he has acquired are 58* or 60*.  These go back to the 40s and 30s, to the creation of the club. 

 

Those sort of lofts may have been around for even longer than that.  I recall seeing some high lofted Niblicks from the hickory era prior to the creation of the sand iron by Gene Sarazen in 1932.

[Itsjustagame]

Yes. At my age I don't hit the ball far enough to carry a 3 wood. Useless club in my bag, and will get more use out of 4 wedges.

[Fairway14]

For 20 years off and on I tried various 58*and 60* wedges, but those lofts cost me too many shots.

However , the 64* I put in the bag about a year ago has been a sensational club for me.