Do you really need a wedge with more loft than 55 or 56 degree in your bag...

[MK7Golf21]

I’ve thought of this as well, don’t most the pros use a 60 around the greens as their default wedge?

[nitram]

14 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

I’ve thought of this as well, don’t most the pros use a 60 around the greens as their default wedge?

 

No Sir.

 

I've been fortunate enough to play in a few Pro-Ams in my life and I've seen the Pro's use everything around the green from LW to hybrid. It all depends on carry ratios and desired trajectory.

Edited December 15, 2020 by nitram

[acekun]

I'd give up my 56 before I gave up my 60. For me, it would be much easier to fill the 56 gap with my 52 degree. I could hit the same shots with a slower swing and wouldn't have to manipulate the face. 

 

Trying to open up a 56 and hit it high/soft shot from a tight lie to a fast green is not appealing to me at all. With my 60, I expect to stick it close. It would be much harder for me to control trajectory, spin and even direction with an open 56. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by acekun

[MK7Golf21]

54 minutes ago, nitram said:

 

No Sir.

 

I've been fortunate enough to play in a few Pro-Ams in my life and I've seen the Pro's use everything around the green from LW to hybrid. It all depends on carry ratios and desired trajectory.

I know Phil uses a 60 pretty much everywhere around the green because he says it multiple times in his chipping lessons. Says to get married to a wedge and use it primarily around green. For him it’s the 60, I swear most pros I see chipping with 60. You might be right though 

[SwingMan]

6 hours ago, Green1414 said:

I’m not saying all, just that it is more likely that that is who would use a 56 as a most lofted wedge. It’s not meant to be a negative thing that you should take to heart. BTW I’m no young’un lol.

I don't take it heart, trying to be a bit lighthearted. But I'd say think a little more about the effect of your words. It's not about speed, it is about skill. I see high speed players who suck around the greens. It takes a while to learn how to use a wedge in various ways. Some choose not to and just keep the face square or slightly open. Others of us try to mimic Phil. And then there is the middle ground....

Edited December 15, 2020 by SwingMan

[dlygrisse]

I use my 58* a lot.  If I were to get rid of a wedge it would be the 54. 
 

I learned to play with just a 56, did well with it, added a 60 and found that I used it only for specific shots. When I went with the 58 it allowed me to hit all the shots I did with a 56 and 60.  
 

the faster the greens you play the more loft is helpful. If I played tour level greens all the time, 60 might be considered.  For most people 56 to 58 is plenty. 
 

technique is also a factor, if you deloft at impact you will need more loft. 

[Green1414]

1 hour ago, SwingMan said:

I don't take it heart, trying to be a bit lighthearted. But I'd say think a little more about the effect of your words. It's not about speed, it is about skill. I see high speed players who suck around the greens. It takes a while to learn how to use a wedge in various ways. Some choose not to and just keep the face square or slightly open. Others of us try to mimic Phil. And then there is the middle ground....

You are not understanding me at all. I’m not talking about skill whatsoever and who can do it better I’m just saying who is more likely to use a 56 as their most lofted club. A 25 year old who shoots 125 on average is still more likely to carry a 60 than a 85 year old who shoots 85. 

[Green1414]

1 hour ago, SwingMan said:

I don't take it heart, trying to be a bit lighthearted. But I'd say think a little more about the effect of your words. It's not about speed, it is about skill. I see high speed players who suck around the greens. It takes a while to learn how to use a wedge in various ways. Some choose not to and just keep the face square or slightly open. Others of us try to mimic Phil. And then there is the middle ground....

 

You are not understanding me at all. I’m not talking about skill whatsoever and who can do it better I’m just saying who is more likely to use a 56 as their most lofted club. A 25 year old who shoots 125 on average is still more likely to carry a 60 than a 85 year old who shoots 85. 
 

I’ll use my parents as examples. My Mom is 68 years old and a 4 hdcp and her most lofted wedge is a 56. My Dad is 70 years old and a 2 hdcp and his most lofted wedge is also a 56. 5 years ago they both carried 60’s but as they got older and don’t hit it as far they no longer carry one. Doesn’t mean they are poor golfers at all, just that as they aged they no longer hit it far enough to have use for anything more than a 56.

[SwingMan]

29 minutes ago, Green1414 said:

 

 

You are not understanding me at all. I’m not talking about skill whatsoever and who can do it better I’m just saying who is more likely to use a 56 as their most lofted club. A 25 year old who shoots 125 on average is still more likely to carry a 60 than a 85 year old who shoots 85. 
 

I’ll use my parents as examples. My Mom is 68 years old and a 4 hdcp and her most lofted wedge is a 56. My Dad is 70 years old and a 2 hdcp and his most lofted wedge is also a 56. 5 years ago they both carried 60’s but as they got older and don’t hit it as far they no longer carry one. Doesn’t mean they are poor golfers at all, just that as they aged they no longer hit it far enough to have use for anything more than a 56.

I'm 65, my playing partner who had experience with Harvey Penick is 68. We are not the longest. We both use 58-60 lofts and when we were playing together, played the 6600 yrd tees since the other two in our foursome were in their 30's, and we were shooting low 80's. We shoot par to plus 3 on the front and the back 9 would eat our lunch a bit more.  

 

I know what you mean by the really old baby boomer generation not using the highest lofts, but everyone is different. Generalizing doesn't work, but if you want ...

Edited December 15, 2020 by SwingMan

[BallerNate]

2 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

I know Phil uses a 60 pretty much everywhere around the green because he says it multiple times in his chipping lessons. Says to get married to a wedge and use it primarily around green. For him it’s the 60, I swear most pros I see chipping with 60. You might be right though 

And Phil carries a 64 too.

[Rapidcat]

5 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Ever since obtaining an ES14, I have learned an amazing amount of information in regards to chipping/short game.

 

I can say I have now "armed" myself with an amazing amount of data and information after obtaining the ES14/ Personal Launch Monitor.

 

What do I mean?

 

I first started of trying to understand spin. How to properly apply spin. which was validated through trial an error and some Youtube Videos.  

 

Then it was distance.  Distance was equal to ball speed and smash. (obviously, but didn't really apply it consciously)

 

So......

 

First I started with a 3 - 9 swing.  shaft parallel back accelerate shaft parallel forward. (simple mechanics, no magic no nothing, simple 3-9 swing)

 

I first started gripping all the way down to the steel no rubber showing.  ball middle of stance, I generate 30mph of ball speed and 3300rpms of spin for a total of 20 Yards. (This is verified on course, pacing and lasering shots) 

 

same ball position, but I grab the middle of the grip, same exact swing,  I get 30 yards of distance.  same ball position, I grab the end of the grip (full grip) I get 40y.  of course you can assume increased ball speeds, and increased spin.  

 

As above I now have 20,30,40y covered with medium spin, mid flight.   Now say I needed 15,25,35y -5y,  I make the same exact swing, 3-9, but I place the ball forward of my stance. Loft is increased now.  Ball speed is reduced due to smash factor decreasing and loft increasing.  Spin is also reduced as speed has dropped BUT, launch angle has increased so while I lose spin, I gain decent angle so the ball can land softer. 

 

Say I need a little more distance +5y , 25,35,45y.  I place the ball further back in my stance.  This increases smash factor, the increased speed also increase spin slightly, BUT since the ball is further back the ball has a lower trajectory and rolls out a little more.

 

As you can see with this technique, I have distances, 20-45Y covered with the same swing 1 club all mechanical, no thinking required. Just different grips and ball positions.  This also allows me to vary the flight for flopish shots (ball forward)  and lower runners (ball back).

 

This is just my LW,  I still have my SW, AW and PW, that I have all packed down.  

 

SW, is 

Middle ball position, low, mid, full grip - 30,40,50

+/- 5Y based on those ball position.

 

AW is

Mid ball pos. -40,50,60

+/-5y based on ball position.

 

PW mid ball pos. - 50,60,70

+/-5y based on ball position.

 

I also have my full stock shots,

LW- 85y

SW - 100y

AW - 115y

PW -130y

 

I have my spinner shots where I can take a low grip with the LW, take my left arm parallel (full wrist hinge) accelerate and now I have a ball speed of 51mph and spin of 6800rpms and get a 50y checker. I need 10 more yards, I just take a mid grip.  I need 70y I take a full grip, left arm parallel and now I have 62mph ballspeed 7500 rpms and it just sticks to the flag. 

 

The distances are all relative to the loft I use, LW, SW, AW, PW... with the amount I practice now these shots,  again I have 15-130y Locked in with confidence and consistency. Its something I can fall back and rely on when the rest of the game is going crazy.

 

So for me wit such a mechanical swing, taking out the LW would take out shot versatility at the low end of the bag.  Now here comes the specific to your questions.

 

Bounce and Shot versatility.

 

For me I have a LW that is low bounce and a SW that is high bounce.  

 

Low bounces are normally for shots around the green (tight lies) and packed hard sand

 

High bounce would be for fluffy fringe and soft sand.

 

if I took the low bounce LW away and used the SW on a tight lie, introduce bounce that could end up blading the ball.

 

Same thing in the sand.  To pick a ball clean with a high bounce SW, I need to deloft (lowering trajectory) to decrease the leading edge, and the precision is all or nothing. Yikes.

 

For me I am an advocate of multiple bounces for the courses you play and scenarios you play with.  Same with lofts to give you ability to control Trajectory and spin to give the most optimal amount of choice to attack a pin.  Now to be fair if you dont play in place that required the versatility than, thats one thing.   All I know is I use my wedges more often than I use my driver/woods. and I Surely use my wedge more often then a single iron in the middle of the bag. So I will take as many tools for the tool box to be as efficient as I can around th course! 

 

 

 

Sorry about the rant. but I thought I would share! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing - great post and well done on the obvious work and tech analysis you have done on your game.

[BlackandJack]

I have a related question to the topic at hand.

 

Is it normal to carry the PW of an iron set or do most phase out of that and grab a different wedge between 46-50 degrees? 

[nitram]

18 minutes ago, BlackandJack said:

I have a related question to the topic at hand.

 

Is it normal to carry the PW of an iron set or do most phase out of that and grab a different wedge between 46-50 degrees? 

 

I've had it both ways thru the years. To me, it really depends on how the PW sets up to the other wedges. I currently use the iron set PW as (for me) it's specs are perfect for the "wedge shots" while I can still use it for the fuller shots as well. Same for when I used to bag J40 CB's. But when I was bagging PING S55, I went to a "non-set" wedge because the set wedge had too much bounce and I prefer forged wedges. Either way will work as long as the specs match your needs.

[lefthack]

Nope. I'm good with my 56. 

[cjrobertson]

I've been saying this for a while and I hope it catches steam. But I really think that the maximum club loft needs to go down to 56. It brings in more skill around the greens and would make short-siding more penal. 

[Duffer222]

I carry my 921f PW, a 51, and a 58.  The 58 is way more versatile for me than a 60, particularly out of the sand of for a flop from green side rough.  I’ve never seen the need for another wedge.

[Konklifer]

The Ping Glide Forged wedges are so easy to open, and their lower bounce easily adapts for this. I have a 58*, but could probably get away with 56. I've never seen the need for more than 58*.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I couldn't give up a 60 simply for the spin I can get from 80 yards and in. I could possibly manipulate the face of a 56 for those but I prefer to play with a square face unless I really need to hoist it or try and juice it. I also love my 60 out of bunkers, harder to hit one really high and spinny with less loft. I think if you tend to play soft or slow greens then a 60 isn't really needed but it's just what I'm comfortable with at this point. 

[J C]

I hit my 59° wedge about 85 yards and my 55° about 100. No way I'd choose to manufacture an 85 yard less than full swing.

[drl1534]

I’ve been considering this, but I’m really comfortable with how I hit the 60 from 40-75 yards vs trying to open up the sand wedge. If it wasn’t for that, it’d be an easy decision since I use the SW or GW more around the green

[8602081]

60 for everything near 80 or less to the green..

 

Sometimes, I remove 56 wedge if I need a longer hybrid..

 

[Exactice808]

20 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

I couldn't give up a 60 simply for the spin I can get from 80 yards and in. I could possibly manipulate the face of a 56 for those but I prefer to play with a square face unless I really need to hoist it or try and juice it. I also love my 60 out of bunkers, harder to hit one really high and spinny with less loft. I think if you tend to play soft or slow greens then a 60 isn't really needed but it's just what I'm comfortable with at this point. 

 

^ This is something I found powerful.  

 

Since I have run spin numbers, I found that spin for me is critical when playing at pins.  

 

Fact, you need speed to increase spin,  The more speed you add, the more spin you add.

 

Problem is, if you have a 60* vs 56* if you applied the same speed,  the 56 would go further due to less loft (lower launch angle) and less spin if all things are equal. right,

 

So if I had say a touch 30y shot, I had to use the 60* vs 56*

 

The 60* need 40mph of ball speed and you can get about 4500rpms of spin,

 

with the 56* I need about 38mph of ball speed but only get about 3600rpms of spin.

 

 

The extra loft allows you to increase ballspeed and spin while limiting distance.

 

Now Increase the yardage to say 75y

 

With a 60* you need  75mph of ball speed and you can get 7800rpms, stopping the ball on a dime.

 

But with the 56* you only need about 68mph of ballspeed and only 6200rpms of spin for the same distance, the ball might roll out rather than stopping.

 

 

For me especially shot within 100y that requires enough spin to really attack pins, you need loft to go after the shot.  To me it makes a difference as well for the LW!

 

Great point out! 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Exactice808

[A.Princey]

I really like to do the super flops on occasion, and for this reason alone, a 60+ deg club is essential. Ymmv

[jubilee_links]

I carry a 60 purely for extra help getting out of greenside bunkers - barely use it from fairway or rough.
If it had to go I am happy opening a 56 in the sand.....

[randywall]

I can take a full swing with my 60* LW and know that it will go 15-20 yards less than my 56*, without having to finesse my SW, which usually doesn't work well. It also gives me another option, depending on the condition of the sand. Sometimes the 60* suits the specific sand better than my 56*.

[hybrid25]

Higher loft equals more height, more spin, BUT, more difficult shot for MOST golfers. What good is loft and spin when you chunk your shot or miss the green, or even miss your location on the green? I have heard so many times from instructors, this truthful statement, that just getting it on to the green decently should be your priority.  How many times I have witnessed a completely blown up shot from golfers using lob wedges. Sure, if you are competent, by all means, but if you are a mid to high capper "user beware"!!!

[Exactice808]

41 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

Higher loft equals more height, more spin, BUT, more difficult shot for MOST golfers. What good is loft and spin when you chunk your shot or miss the green, or even miss your location on the green? I have heard so many times from instructors, this truthful statement, that just getting it on to the green decently should be your priority.  How many times I have witnessed a completely blown up shot from golfers using lob wedges. Sure, if you are competent, by all means, but if you are a mid to high capper "user beware"!!!

So to be fair in your statement,  I initially read the OP stating if you have the skill and technique.  As the implication already applied you had some understanding of how to manipulate the club for a shot.

 

To your specific point I do not disagree with it at all.   the more loft, your strike point requires more precision.  The effects of loft increase spin both back and side creating deviations.

 

More so depending on the bounce (which to me is the most important outside of technique) in regards to a wedge shot, Bounce is you friend, but truthfully hardly any Sunday hacker uses it properly due to the, "Forward shaft lean" that is parroted around.  The moment you expose the leading edge in the wrong method the shot is 50/50.  Depth control is everything at that point and many times.....well....they dont have it.  

 

Anyways, as I mentioned in my previous post, I incorporated my own method to negate as much as possible the pit falls.  This of course is not my own method, but a combination of many and my past failures.

 

Saying that I have the shot range of 15-100y, using the same exact swing 3-9, without changing anything other than the length of grip and ball position,  the body works like a pendulum so you maintain depth of swing as much as possible.  you dont have to introduce any wrist set or hand action if you dont want too. The ball basically goes the exact distance all the time. It has been a solid technique for me!

 

To imagine just with the LW and low/mid bounce of 7*.  I have 15,20,25,30,35,40,45 yards  completely covered, to include a High, mid and low trajectory, and varying spin to anticipate how the ball should react on the green.  It now becomes more of a tool of practice and confidence rather than the fear of choosing the club 😃

Edited December 16, 2020 by Exactice808

[hybrid25]

8 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

So to be fair in your statement,  I initially read the OP stating if you have the skill and technique.  As the implication already applied you had some understanding of how to manipulate the club for a shot.

Yes, you are correct, as I didn't go back and read the OP. Although, competence is so much of a factor in choosing your wedges it doesn't hurt to mention it again. 🙂

Edited December 16, 2020 by hybrid25

[chachd]

I'm 72 years old and carry 4 wedges. Up until 2 years ago my highest lofted wedge was 56 degrees. I've gone to a 58 degree and love it around the greens and for sand shots, however off the turf with a tight lie I can't use it - too much chance of chunking or skulling. I can hit this wedge about 65 yards max.  I use a 54/10 that's been de-lofted to 52 for those shots. I also special ordered it with the same Recoil Shaft as my full set which helps tremendously. I can hit this club up to 85 yards. I also have an A wedge in my full set that I hit about 95 - 105 yards and a pitching wedge that I hit 110 - 115 yards. I've tried a 60 degree and have never been able to hit consistently. Most people I know who use one waste a shot half of the time. 

[kstrong84]

I say, yes, you need a 58 or 60.

 

There are situations where sometimes you just need the loft... Clearing trees, short sided lies, hard/fast greens etc.

 

You would be better off going 46/52/58 and just learning to manipulate each club more.  You'll become a better player too!