Really TXG?

[Rapidcat]

2 hours ago, Guia said:

Scotts are definitely not Brits.  Never tell an Irish or a Scott that they are British.  They usually hate the British and are not shy about telling you.  I know from experience.

 

Scots are British. Never tell a Scot that they are English.

[Fairway14]

5 hours ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

 

Now, you and I are entitled to our stupid opinions, but if you could stop being a fundamentalist troll and forcing your opinion on everyone on every thread like it’s irrefutable truth, that‘d be swell.
 

 

You are new to golf and were misled into thinking "fitted equipment" is especially significant towards improving one's game. But if you talk to your home area best player, one who routinely shoots 18 hole scores of par or better, I assure you he/she will confirm that swing technique is 99% of good shot making.

 

[kwainio]

9 hours ago, Thayneil said:

Ian is a British dude!

 

He's Scottish & not annoying.

 

I was referring to the James Robinson's & Peter Finch's of the internet golf world.

[Z1ggy16]

Like others say, it is very simple: They provided an unbiased and honest review of what SST does. Ian is still a business man and has to cater to all kinds of clients. If some guy begging to burn cash comes in looking for have his whole bag PUREd at $40 a pop, he'd be dumb to not have the tool available to provide such services, whether it does anything measurably beneficial or not.

 

 

[pinhigh27]

8 hours ago, plim123 said:

Ian has pointed out the difference between trackman and gcquad numbers on a number of videos, even going into detail on how the two systems differ (something about one looking at the whole head, the other only looking at the face). 

 

They also did a video recently comparing gc quad numbers to skytrak. They spent multiple weeks (and multiple calls with skytrak support) to get a true side by side test. Long story short, it was impossible to have the 2 machines active at the same time to read the same swing. So they had to swap out machines.

 

Spoiler alert: skytrak was spot on to quad for wedges. But 7i and d, skytrak had inflated numbers compared to quad. They chalked it up to a $10k diff in systems, and that skytrak would be a good product for home/consumer/average swing speed use. 

 

 

From a pure testing format, they are probably the most systematic and also the most transparent. 

This doesn’t address anything I said. The foresight algorithm is clearly messed up for low spin shots and they’ve never addressed it , that I’m aware of (hence they say Matt hits it 370+ when he is not )

[MattM97]

6 hours ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

Now, you and I are entitled to our stupid opinions, but if you could stop being a fundamentalist troll and forcing your opinion on everyone on every thread like it’s irrefutable truth, that‘d be swell.
 

 

That would be quite swell. 

[EDT501]

4 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

You are new to golf and were misled into thinking "fitted equipment" is especially significant towards improving one's game. But if you talk to your home area best player, one who routinely shoots 18 hole scores of par or better, I assure you he/she will confirm that swing technique is 99% of good shot making.

I agree, the swing is more important that the clubs. But to say that having well fitted clubs doesn’t matter (or is only 1% of the puzzle), is equally nonsensical as a scratch player claiming that they could be a make a living on tour if they just had access to “tour-issue” gear. Based on you own statement, I could completely change my set without materially changing my scores. I am 6’5”, 200lbs, and swing at a smooth 118 w/ a driver. If I was forced to play my next 10 rounds with under-length SGI irons w/ lightweight graphite A flex shafts, a draw biased driver with 12*+ of loft, chunky wedges, a center shafted mallet putter, and undersized grips (pretty much the opposite of my well-fit current setup) - my scores wouldn't absolutely increase in a way that would materially impact my handicap. Same would happen in reverse - say if I took a 5'2" 80 year old woman and forced her to play my clubs.

 

Obviously the above are extreme examples, but it demonstrates aptly the problem with your assertion. If someone is poorly fit and is constantly having to fight/manipulate their equipment to get acceptable results it will impede their ability to focus on the swing and navigating the course. Golf is hard enough without making life more difficult. Furthermore, if you someone is adapting to their equipment, not the other way around, there is a high likelihood of engraining a poor habit that could be difficult to correct even after an equipment change. Yes a good player will find a way to make any equipment work (I am confident that Tiger could beat me playing with a set of US Kids clubs), but that’s not a long term recipe for success and lower scores. Yes, golfers who want to lower their handicap have to put in the requisite hard-work, but having well-fit clubs absolutely enables the player improve more rapidly and see their best results.

 

The breadth of equipment options out there today can easily overwhelm someone who hasn’t been immersed in the golf world years or hasn’t had wide access to trial varied models. A fitter can help those players get into a good fit within a matter of hours rather than weeks, months, or years of blind trial and error on the course. Of course, once fit, players are responsible for learning to trust that new equipment and figuring out all the nuances of how that set plays in varied conditions on the course. I'd also concede that cycling through drivers trying to get spin down by a few hundred rpm or swapping out shafts endlessly looking for "the one" is equally not the right answer. I'm a big believer in finding the right fit and then sticking with it. Developing trust and knowledge about ones equipment is massively important to shooting great scores. 

 

Finally, and I can emphasize this enough, GolfWRX is an equipment driven community. Part of the enjoyment most of us here get from the game comes from trying new gear, finding what works best for us, and chasing the ever-elusive perfectly optimized setup. If the extent of your contributions is going to be calling generally well-respected fitters charlatans and telling everyone that they wasting their time/money by pursuing an aspect of this hobby that you, based on entirely on anecdotal evidence, dismiss, perhaps do everyone here and yourself a favor and stop contributing to the equipment sub-forums since it is doing nobody any good.

[Fairway14]

16 minutes ago, EDT501 said:

 

 

Finally, and I can emphasize this enough, GolfWRX is an equipment driven community. 

 

The definition of the word "forum" is a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

[SheriffBooth]

The topic of this thread is not the value of club fitting generally or its relation to taking lessons or practicing.  To the extent some of you wish to continue a discussion on that or a similar topic, I suggest you start a new thread.  Please do not continue to take this thread, or any other, off topic.

[shart6]

Getting this back on topic, SST Pure and the necessity of it comes down to one thing in 2020 are there any quality shafts that aren't round? Nothing in my trunk is not round so no reason for any type of alignment. The shafts in my irons are KBS C-Taper Lite, the wedges Dynamic Gold 115. Neither would need alignment. I doubt the Diamana Whiteboards that are 7-8 years old would need it either. 

 

I have an old set of Dynalite Gold iron shafts made in 2004 according to the invoice. They are weight sorted to +.5 and -.6 grams. They may or may not benefit from alignment when I install them. I'll test them and find out but these are old shafts not anything available today.

 

[pinhigh27]

1 hour ago, shart6 said:

Getting this back on topic, SST Pure and the necessity of it comes down to one thing in 2020 are there any quality shafts that aren't round? Nothing in my trunk is not round so no reason for any type of alignment. The shafts in my irons are KBS C-Taper Lite, the wedges Dynamic Gold 115. Neither would need alignment. I doubt the Diamana Whiteboards that are 7-8 years old would need it either. 

 

I have an old set of Dynalite Gold iron shafts made in 2004 according to the invoice. They are weight sorted to +.5 and -.6 grams. They may or may not benefit from alignment when I install them. I'll test them and find out but these are old shafts not anything available today.

 

You realize by not round it means at a very detailed level, right ? Everyone’s golf shafts are pretty round , it doesn’t mean it’s perfect 

[ARL67]

I FLO my shafts with my laser and frequency analyzer so I can sleep better at night, but I have no hard evidence or experience that it does anything for my score.  I only do so because I have the equipment to do so.  I also have a set of shafts that came to me SST Pured.  I naturally install them in their intended orientation, but I can’t say it does anything tangible for me. YMMV.

 

I like the TXG guys and the content they put out.  I have no complaints of the “online space” they chose to cater to.

[shart6]

15 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

You realize by not round it means at a very detailed level, right ? Everyone’s golf shafts are pretty round , it doesn’t mean it’s perfect 

 

When I say round I mean the radial consistency is over 98%.  

[mgoblue83]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:52 PM, pinhigh27 said:

the main things that frustrate me about txg are

a) people think matt is a robot because they edit out bad shots. He's a good golfer, around scratch apparently, but there are loads of better ball strikers in the world. Again, yes he's good but all of us posted our highlight tapes online, we'd look pretty good

b) the foresight distance algorithm is severely jacked for low spin shots and causes falsely elevated yardages. Matt would be 50 yards shorter in real life than he gets on the quad in the videos. He will never carry a ball 360 with 180ish ball speed. It just doesn't happen. You would think this would be important for a fitter to point out, as one could easily be fit into a driver that is way too low spin for them that looks good on a GC2/quad but sucks in real life and falls out of the sky/ is terrible on mishits. 

 

Completely agree with what you said. Well done.

 

I'll go a step further and say that I can't stand how Quad and the Foresight software calculate and show trajectory and curvature. There are SO MANY shots that TXG shows that look like nice draws when in reality it's a knuckle ball duck hook that will fall out of the sky and go nowhere on the golf course. The best example is all of the driver testing they do on that Carnoustie hole. Almost all of Matt's drives are hooking across the entire hole (50+yards?) and all you hear is "lovely Matty boy". Are you kidding me?

 

The proof is in how Matt won't even play the Maverick driver that won the "driver bracket" and probably sold so many Mavericks for them because it's uncontrollable on the course.

[braincramp52]

28 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Completely agree with what you said. Well done.

 

I'll go a step further and say that I can't stand how Quad and the Foresight software calculate and show trajectory and curvature. There are SO MANY shots that TXG shows that look like nice draws when in reality it's a knuckle ball duck hook that will fall out of the sky and go nowhere on the golf course. The best example is all of the driver testing they do on that Carnoustie hole. Almost all of Matt's drives are hooking across the entire hole (50+yards?) and all you hear is "lovely Matty boy". Are you kidding me?

 

The proof is in how Matt won't even play the Maverick driver that won the "driver bracket" and probably sold so many Mavericks for them because it's uncontrollable on the course.

Guess all those pros that use GC Quad are idiots. 🤔

[enfuego]

Last week Ian answered some questions on Instagram. If I remember correctly someone asked about the qc quad algorithm on super high ball speed / low spin shots and Ian said he knows qc quad inflates them and he even said foresight knows it too. At the end of the day and regardless of what calculation is used, they are trying to max out what they have in front of them. They would never use trackman or flightscope indoors as the foresight quad/hawk give too much other valuable information. I think the high ball speed / low spin shot is one of the only issues with it which most people never have to worry about.

[mgoblue83]

2 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

Guess all those pros that use GC Quad are idiots. 🤔

 

The ball data is good but the way it calculates distance and trajectory from that ball data is well documented to be flawed.

 

Most them are using a combination of GCQ for normalized ball data and Trackman for measured ball flight data.

[mgoblue83]

3 minutes ago, enfuego said:

Last week Ian answered some questions on Instagram. If I remember correctly someone asked about the qc quad algorithm on super high ball speed / low spin shots and Ian said he knows qc quad inflates them and he even said foresight knows it too. At the end of the day and regardless of what calculation is used, they are trying to max out what they have in front of them. They would never use trackman or flightscope indoors as the foresight quad/hawk give too much other valuable information. I think the high ball speed / low spin shot is one of the only issues with it which most people never have to worry about.

 

Foresight uses the same algorithm to calculate distance with every shot. It would make sense that the most extreme shots (high speed/spin) would produce the most inaccurate results but that doesn't mean that other shots aren't subject to the same flawed calculations.

[golf9596]

On 12/19/2020 at 8:03 AM, braincramp52 said:

 

6 sets of irons in 4 years? Amateur.😆

That is nothing for a WRXER....lol

[pinhigh27]

48 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

Guess all those pros that use GC Quad are idiots. 🤔

They’re not idiots, the machines are good at measuring , they’re just not good at figuring out how far the ball is going to go if you have low spin based on their algorithm 

[noodle3872]

With all the GC Quad, Trackman and fitting experts on here explaining how/why things are so f’d up I’m shocked TXG, 2nd Swing (whom seem to have avoided having their YT channel criticized) and so on are even able to stay in business!!! 
 

I for one am grateful for the content and their insights.  

[Golfrnut]

16 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

With all the GC Quad, Trackman and fitting experts on here explaining how/why things are so f’d up I’m shocked TXG, 2nd Swing (whom seem to have avoided having their YT channel criticized) and so on are even able to stay in business!!! 
 

I for one am grateful for the content and their insights.  

 

I think it's the clientele they are catering to.  Really easy to get too technical with a large majority of the golfing community.  Most are not going to understand a lot of the terms or be able to digest them going into a tangent on a lot of those topics.  They are going to lose most of their viewers (not from a following/viewing standpoint, talking confusion) if they go down that rabbit hole.  Could Ian devote time and a view videos to explaining it?  Probably.  He's got enough knowledge upstairs to do so, but it's probably just not something they chose to want to delve in to.  5% would probably be very interested in hearing it, 10-15% might be a little interested, and the other 80% are gonna get overwhelmed and go into a blank stare by the end of it.

 

For the simplistic side of the topic, they have made sidebar comments about the distance exaggerations at times, but really haven't gone any further than that. 

[jmorrow020]

You guys have to remember, that 99% of golfers have zero tech experience in the industry. They go get a stock set of clubs because those are the clubs the last pga tour winner used, or the clubs that were the cheapest being sold off by hourly employees... Golf Media right now is really focused on those kinds of guys. The Shiels' of the world are running that dimention, and for somebody at a 25 handicap... isnt going to know the difference period. 

 

[noodle3872]

@Golfrnut and @jmorrow020I am in agreement with your comments. In all likelihood, Ian has forgot more than most fitters know. Keep it simple principle goes along way. Want more detail, ask a question on their live chats.

 

I just find it ironic that 2nd Swing (Thomas and Drew) are doing a similar thing on their YT channel but there’s no threads on their goings on. 

[pinhigh27]

24 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

@Golfrnut and @jmorrow020I am in agreement with your comments. In all likelihood, Ian has forgot more than most fitters know. Keep it simple principle goes along way. Want more detail, ask a question on their live chats.

 

I just find it ironic that 2nd Swing (Thomas and Drew) are doing a similar thing on their YT channel but there’s no threads on their goings on. 

What similar thing ? 

[johny719]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:38 PM, Adam C said:

These guys just can't make up their minds if they are on board with the SST Pureing or not. First they have a video/infomercial with Dick Weiss singing its praises. Then that video goes away and they start saying that they see no benefit to the process. Now they put out this video where they simultaneously advertise they are doing PUREing but at the same time showing that it doesn't matter with this test Accra shaft. You know the video is coming where they show some "random" lesser shaft and how much better the aligned version is.

Right or wrong, just pick a side guys.

I always thought pureing a high end shaft is not necessary since you’re already paying the premium for the QC and I just like my graphics down.

[jmorrow020]

1 hour ago, johny719 said:

I always thought pureing a high end shaft is not necessary since you’re already paying the premium for the QC and I just like my graphics down.

Thats really what they were trying to show... is that the higher end equipment has its own properties and it really doesnt make sense to mess with them. But when you are talking about stock hzrdus or old like Ozik White Ties stuff like that... puring may give you a benefit. 

[SPIF]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:43 AM, Fairway14 said:

 

You are new to golf and were misled into thinking "fitted equipment" is especially significant towards improving one's game. But if you talk to your home area best player, one who routinely shoots 18 hole scores of par or better, I assure you he/she will confirm that swing technique is 99% of good shot making.

 

 

Can any of you remind me how to block people from my feed?

[puttingmatt]

Not certain what all the fuss is about,

TXG have a place in golf , as well as others from across the pond, if you don't like their broadcasts, turn it off, I personally enjoy TXG, and other youtube golf review offerings, They provide information for the viewers consideration. As with everything, one still has to do their own due diligence. 

[noodle3872]

8 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

What similar thing ? 

Reviewing clubs, breaking down data and giving opinions on clubs. Essentially their spin on TXG but with Trackman.