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Possible Putter Change For the GOAT


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I had a feeling the Nicklaus clowns were going to ruin this thread.

You're probably right. But that's okay cause you chose to come in this forum and read it. If you don't want to read about Tiger switching putters, then don't click a forum that says something about hi

GOAT? Mr Nicklaus.

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On 12/16/2020 at 10:23 AM, glenk69 said:

I agree on the reference to Nicklaus.

 

And this post is the definition of ridiculous.  If there was a picture of Tiger holding a shovel, someone would probably post that he was switching out his Scotty for a new putter.

Wait...do you happen to know what brand and model shovel he was using?  Maybe a pic?  Think I might have to try that out.  Hopefully I can knock a couple shots off. lol

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On 12/20/2020 at 11:06 AM, jadedennill said:

Today’s golfers are not better because of equipment. They’re better because the entire blueprint is different in every way. It is true that the only objective part of the argument is that we can’t compare Jack to Tiger because they played in different eras. I’ll concede that. However, there is zero argument to make between the way tiger dominated throughout his career, the way he changed the game, and the way he played the game in general. It’s not a contest; Tiger’s best was on a different level than Jack’s best. 
Jack won 3 more majors in an era when he had to beat 5 guys. Tiger did everything he did when anyone in the field could win on any given week. And let’s be honest, the only people in the world that make the argument for Jack are the same people who’d say the ball goes too far now and the integrity of the game is being challenged because of it. 
Again, it’s a difference of opinion, but most informed people in the world of golf understand how antiquated the argument is now. Tiger is the GOAT. 

 

giphy-1.gif.a5ba656a244a2df4ced66effbcc8baa3.gif

 

 

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:26 PM, robertdarrow9 said:

You're probably right. But that's okay cause you chose to come in this forum and read it. If you don't want to read about Tiger switching putters, then don't click a forum that says something about him making a putter change. Its that simple.

 

I'd generally agree, but the title doesn't mention Tiger, just GOAT, which is open to interpretation.

 

So some light-hearted trolling should be expected. Post provocative thread titles, win provocative post prizes.

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On 12/20/2020 at 1:06 PM, jadedennill said:

Today’s golfers are not better because of equipment. 

 

Actually, today's players may be lesser skilled than past generations.

On Tour in the 50's, 60's 70's when a player felt some pressure and his tempo got a bit quick the steel shafted persimmon wood he was swinging might produce a duck hook or severe block to the right. Equipment is so good these days that a faulty swing still will yield reasonably good shot results.

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13 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Actually, today's players may be lesser skilled than past generations.

On Tour in the 50's, 60's 70's when a player felt some pressure and his tempo got a bit quick the steel shafted persimmon wood he was swinging might produce a duck hook or severe block to the right. Equipment is so good these days that a faulty swing still will yield reasonably good shot results.

Interesting take on it, but not accurate. The dumpy cigarette smoking, beer drinking players of that era were good in comparison to their peers, but they wouldn’t even make the Korn Ferry tour now. 

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16 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Actually, today's players may be lesser skilled than past generations.

On Tour in the 50's, 60's 70's when a player felt some pressure and his tempo got a bit quick the steel shafted persimmon wood he was swinging might produce a duck hook or severe block to the right. Equipment is so good these days that a faulty swing still will yield reasonably good shot results.

You got to think , although tech is much better , courses are much longer, stints are faster , slope is more defined and the rough is much more penile especially for major setups. Golfers are not just golfers anymore , the majority of the fields are athletes , and the fields are deep , not something you could say was accurate before the 80's or even the 90's. Players have the tech at their disposal , but they also work harder than ever before. 

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5 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

 Players have the tech at their disposal , but they also work harder than ever before. 

 

For 70 years Tour golf tournament fields have always have some players who practice more hours than other players, and that is true today.

Golf is essentially a technique game, not a sport. To play great golf it does not hurt to be especially coordinated and, or, "athletic", but it's certainly not a requirement. 

As previously stated in the era of steel shafted persimmon woods and balata balls a Tour player under pressure might suffer from a bit too quick of tempo/rhythm and produce a duck hook or big block tee shot. Modern balls and balls offer a level of forgiveness that allows a Tour player swing to get a bit out of tempo/rhythm yet still yield reasonably playable shot results. Consequently, I believe Tour players using steel shafted wooden heads and balata balls needed more skill than today's players. 

It's true that Tour event courses are longer today than 50 years ago, but the availability of modern balls, large heads with long graphite shafts etc...

has more than made up for the increased yardage of golf courses. Smoother greens today require less skill than did when trying to make putts on the relatively long, shaggy greens of 50 years ago.

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Srixon F65 3-wood

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Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

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2 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

Smoother greens today require less skill than did when trying to make putts on the relatively long, shaggy greens of 50 years ago.

While I can agree with some of your points , I'm not quite sure how you can say that hope and luck of a ball jutting the right way on a "shaggy green" is a skill? A downhill 20' putt on a green that's rolling at a 12 is much easier to make than the same putt on a green that stints an 8? I don't see how that is. You easily could have a longer putt back up the hill ,on the faster green, if you miss your line. Proximity to the hole could be a huge variance here only due to speed , not to mention slope. I've played a lot of muni's in my day that have slow greens and it's easy to say , there isn't a lot of defensive putting on those type of greens. Please explain how your opinion of greens today requiring less skill? I'm not the greatest putter by any means , but maybe I could learn something here on putting fast greens. 

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1 minute ago, golffeen007 said:

 A downhill 20' putt on a green that's rolling at a 12 is much easier to make than the same putt on a green that stints an 8? 

 

Consider that on smooth rolling fast greens lots of players can make putts. But on shaggy greens to make putts requires solid contact that produces on the ball a true roll.

If you know any truly great putters you may have noticed that when the greens get rough they are still able to roll the ball well and make putts.

 

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Srixon F65 3-wood

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Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

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27 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

 I'm not the greatest putter by any means , but maybe I could learn something here on putting fast greens. 

 

I've observed the techniques of lots of good putters, so if you're interested in the technique aspect of putting I may be able to help you.

As for equipment, I do believe the heavy (340, 350, 360 etc...)gram putters does harm lots of players putting games. Some players roll the ball well and make putts with the heavy heads, but lots of players don't. Which brand/model putter do you use ?

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Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

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The correct question would be , "Which brand/model haven't I used" 😉 I've played every head shape or toe hang I can think of in the past few years. 

I currently game a Odyssey tour only V-Line fang with a white hot insert. It's 345g , built to 37" inches with a longer style pistol grip that plays counterbalanced. This style head from Odyssey I come back to and seems to work best for me but I generally tinker with length and grip quite often. Since I build everything in my bag  , it's easy to tinker as walking out in the garage and saying , let me try this and see what happens. The stroke isn't bad but I miss more inside of 5 foot than I should for a single digit handicap.  

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4 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

The correct question would be , "Which brand/model haven't I used" 😉 I've played every head shape or toe hang I can think of in the past few years. 

 

I've tried long putters, short putters, heavy heads, light heads, all kinds of head shapes and grips etc... but nothing was especially effective.

What has worked remarkably well for me is copying the Nicklaus putting address technique. Specifically, somewhat crouched posture with head set well behind the ball at address. This head position seems to eliminate my tendency to become "ball bound". For example, if one's head is well behind the ball he/she will be looking at the rear of the ball (not on top of it) and this seems to promote a steady head throughout the stroke.

Try copying Nicklaus putting address technique, you might like it.

Nicklaus putting.jpeg

Nicklaus putting.jpg

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KZG SP700 driver

Srixon F65 3-wood

Srixon H65 3, 4 hybrids

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

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1 minute ago, Fairway14 said:

I've tried long putters, short putters, heavy heads, light heads, all kinds of head shapes and grips etc... but nothing was especially effective.

What has worked remarkably well for me is copying the Nicklaus putting address technique. Specifically, somewhat crouched posture with head set well behind the ball at address. This head position seems to eliminate my tendency to become "ball bound". For example, if one's head is well behind the ball he/she will be looking at the rear of the ball (not on top of it) and this seems to promote a steady head throughout the stroke.

Try copying Nicklaus putting address technique, you might like it.

Nicklaus putting.jpeg

Nicklaus putting.jpg

In my younger years , I did use this lead elbow , head behind vs over the ball technique with some success. Never hurt to give it another shot. Cheers!

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On 12/16/2020 at 2:25 PM, jadedennill said:

Not “to each their own”. It’s not even an argument anymore if it ever was. Jack’s best was not even in the same league as tiger’s best. Jack beat a bunch of part time golfers and used car salesmen! 
It’s not a subjective argument. 

Not only did you just insult Nicklaus but also all of his legendary competitors. The debate is actually very close. Obviously history and facts aren't your strong suit. Shame on you and everyone that liked your post. 

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On 12/20/2020 at 4:06 PM, jadedennill said:

Today’s golfers are not better because of equipment. They’re better because the entire blueprint is different in every way. It is true that the only objective part of the argument is that we can’t compare Jack to Tiger because they played in different eras. I’ll concede that. However, there is zero argument to make between the way tiger dominated throughout his career, the way he changed the game, and the way he played the game in general. It’s not a contest; Tiger’s best was on a different level than Jack’s best. 
Jack won 3 more majors in an era when he had to beat 5 guys. Tiger did everything he did when anyone in the field could win on any given week. And let’s be honest, the only people in the world that make the argument for Jack are the same people who’d say the ball goes too far now and the integrity of the game is being challenged because of it. 
Again, it’s a difference of opinion, but most informed people in the world of golf understand how antiquated the argument is now. Tiger is the GOAT. 


 

“Tiger’s best was on a different level than Jack’s best”

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

Tiger would tell you himself that Jack was just as long, and on the whole/over time, a better driver than himself. 

 

Jack was also just about as strong an iron player.

 

And equal as far as putting.

 

Mental game, just as good.

 

The only area TW is clearly stronger is green side/bunker game. 
 

Id also give TW 1.0 the edge over Jack in his prime if they played head to head.

 

But it’s nowhere near a “different level”. You put them head to head 10x and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were 5 and 5 with maybe TW winning 6 out of 10.

 

But, put them both on a long course where accuracy off the tee is a premium, Jack would beat TW more often than not.

 

TW beat all the young guns in the 2019 Masters at 43 years old.

 

Jack beat a bunch of guys at 46 years old to win the 1986 Masters. And Greg Norman, Tom Watson, Seve, Payne Stewart...none of those guys were “used car salesman” as far as my understanding ; )

Edited by bscinstnct
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On 12/20/2020 at 4:06 PM, jadedennill said:

Today’s golfers are not better because of equipment. They’re better because the entire blueprint is different in every way. It is true that the only objective part of the argument is that we can’t compare Jack to Tiger because they played in different eras. I’ll concede that. However, there is zero argument to make between the way tiger dominated throughout his career, the way he changed the game, and the way he played the game in general. It’s not a contest; Tiger’s best was on a different level than Jack’s best. 
Jack won 3 more majors in an era when he had to beat 5 guys. Tiger did everything he did when anyone in the field could win on any given week. And let’s be honest, the only people in the world that make the argument for Jack are the same people who’d say the ball goes too far now and the integrity of the game is being challenged because of it. 
Again, it’s a difference of opinion, but most informed people in the world of golf understand how antiquated the argument is now. Tiger is the GOAT. 

It must be asked.  If equipment doesn’t matter , why the gnashing of teeth over changing its outlines ? 

 

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54 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


 

“Tiger’s best was on a different level than Jack’s best”

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

Tiger would tell you himself that Jack was just as long, and on the whole/over time, a better driver than himself. 

 

Jack was also just about as strong an iron player.

 

And equal as far as putting.

 

Mental game, just as good.

 

The only area TW is clearly stronger is green side/bunker game. 
 

Id also give TW 1.0 the edge over Jack in his prime if they played head to head.

 

But it’s nowhere near a “different level”. You put them head to head 10x and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were 5 and 5 with maybe TW winning 6 out of 10.

 

But, put them both on a long course where accuracy off the tee is a premium, Jack would beat TW more often than not.

 

TW beat all the young guns in the 2019 Masters at 43 years old.

 

Jack beat a bunch of guys at 46 years old to win the 1986 Masters. And Greg Norman, Tom Watson, Seve, Payne Stewart...none of those guys were “used car salesman” as far as my understanding ; )

100 %.    I’d give tiger 1.0 a slight edge too. But ..... anybody who’s studied jack understands just how strong his mental game is/was.   Tiger learned from jack.  
 

 

if tiger and jack came to the game both around say 1980..... they’d have drafted off each other and  won 18-20ish each . 
 

if they both turn pro in 2010 ..... they win 5-7 each tops due to equipment causing the amount of parity that it has.  It’s no coincidence that each were the best long iron players this planet has ever seen , and possibly the best 2 putters when it mattered ..... ever ....those two advantages have been mitigated most by modern equipment leveling fields.  

Edited by bladehunter

 

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20 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

100 %.    I’d give tiger 1.0 a slight edge too. But ..... anybody who’s studied jack understands just how strong his mental game is/was.   Tiger learned from jack.  
 

 

if tiger and jack came to the game both around say 1980..... they’d have drafted off each other and  won 18-20ish each . 
 

if they both turn pro in 2010 ..... they win 5-7 each tops due to equipment causing the amount of parity that it has.  It’s no coincidence that each were the best long iron players this planet has ever seen , and possibly the best 2 putters when it mattered ..... ever ....those two advantages have been mitigated most by modern equipment leveling fields.  


This my favorite Jack TW pic. You can make up all kinds of captions. Like,

 


“Why do all the guys laugh when you say, “I’m going out for some pancakes”?”

 

 

D42EB0D9-1AEE-4BFF-81D4-08450DA54C20.jpeg

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:30 PM, StrokesGainedBreakfastBall said:

Did Tiger's team win the Member/Guest?

That's what I want to know! These are the hard hitting questions we want answered, not the pointless GOAT corrections...

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