Your latest efforts to get the shaft more shallow will just make you hook the ball more.

[Golfbeat]

People doing this on their own run a great risk of coming into the ball too shallow and too much from the inside with a pivot that isn't correcting the path.  Result: massive over draws and huge blocks. Discuss.

[Hawkeye77]

You can't make me!

[Soloman1]

No. You discuss it.

[golfsticks]

I'll chime in but at $1.00 per word, punctuation extra. 

[Golfbeat]

Hahaha. OK it happened to me and I need to urgently see an instructor to fix me. I was just wondering whether more people had this issue.

[MK7Golf21]

Well I mean Hogan had to use an extreme weak grip and other secrets to prevent his hook problem that he struggled with. More you swing flat and have the clubhead travel more rounded or shallow, higher chance for hooks is my experience.
 

I think it’s kind of funny in regard to the craze about getting the clubhead underneath hand path for a torque that assists in closing the face. Most good players are trying to prevent the face closing, I know I don’t want any forces adding to my club face closing on me, I want less torque especially when you are strong and I’m swinging very fast. 

[MonteScheinblum]

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

When I tell them to cast and come over the top, they want to run, but when club head speed goes up and path neutralizes...they say hmmm?!

Edited December 20, 2020 by MonteScheinblum

[ryan84]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

When I tell them to cast and come over the top, they want to run, but when club head speed goes up and path neutralizes...they say hmmm?!

By cast and come ott do you mean cast and turn to neutralize the inside cast? I’ve never heard you say come ott so this is new to me. 

[Golfbeat]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

When I tell them to cast and come over the top, they want to run, but when club head speed goes up and path neutralizes...they say hmmm?!

 

Keep the right shoulder higher, left lower and swing more left?

[cardoustie]

39 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

When I tell them to cast and come over the top, they want to run, but when club head speed goes up and path neutralizes...they say hmmm?!

That was me, 14* inside out with an 8 iron

[golfsticks]

39 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

That was me, 14* inside out with an 8 iron

 

I understand  new measuring devices on the market today like Henry Ford might have understood precision emission standards.  

Allow a question, is the 14 degrees measured and divided somehow like 7* on each side of the baseline like  7* in and 7 * out,  or 12* in 2* out,  10* in 4* out or other combinations totaling 14* etc., is that what's spit out.     14* in, zero out, seems easily doable, where does the "in" start to be measured?  

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by golfsticks

[Zitlow]

I get @Golfbeat's point.

 

Manipulations, imperfections and compensations are superfluous actions which are energy killers robbing you of power and control. 

 

In other words you don't want to drive down the interstate with your parking brake on. 

 

 

[glk]

9 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

I understand  new measuring devices on the market today like Henry Ford might have understood precision emission standards.  

Allow a question, is the 14 degrees measured and divided somehow like 7* on each side of the baseline like  7* in and 7 * out,  or 12* in 2* out,  10* in 4* out or other combinations totaling 14* etc., is that what's spit out.     14* in, zero out, seems easily doable, where does the "in" start to be measured?  

 

Assuming measured from a lm, then 14* means sweet spot/ club head  traveling 14* right of the target line at impact.    And that is a lot.

Edited December 20, 2020 by glk

[golfsticks]

8 minutes ago, glk said:

Assuming measured from a lm, then 14* means sweet spot/ club head  traveling 14* right of the target line at impact.

 

For perspective, is right of the target line the player's side of the line?  What is an average out then if it's 14* in, maybe 2* out?  Where does measuring the in start?

Edited December 20, 2020 by golfsticks

[glk]

6 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

For perspective, is right of the target line the player's side of the line?  What is an average out then if it's 14* in, maybe 2* out?  Where does measuring the in start?

Independent of whether player is righty or lefty.    Direction of club head relative to target line.   Don’t follow your question.   It is 14* to the right at impact.    In to out typically refers to swing plane - the slanted hula hoop.

see deplane.   

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Keep the right shoulder higher, left lower and swing more left?

And @ryan84

 

Staying in left tilt (Aka back to target/stay closed that Nicklaus and Rose talk about) feels over the top to most people.  Everyone who was taught to drop it in the slot and swing to right field, dropped the rear shoulder.  Coming from the inside is a wrist and arm movement that is made easier by shifting earlier versus diving the knees and pelvis from the top, which pulls you out of left tilt early.  See the Alex Noren drill.  

[golfsticks]

12 minutes ago, glk said:

Independent of whether player is righty or lefty.    Direction of club head relative to target line.   Don’t follow your question.   It is 14* to the right at impact.    In to out typically refers to swing plane - the slanted hula hoop.

see deplane.   

 Got it, I think, so the club head isn't crossing out and over the target line?

 

[glk]

1 hour ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Keep the right shoulder higher, left lower and swing more left?

Yes to first two, no to the last.    Swing left is a result - every righty ends up swinging left but this is typically a reference to the handle moving left with the rotation of the body - folks that stall don’t swing left and trying to do so is just goi g to create more issues.    

[glk]

2 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 Got it, I think, so the club head isn't crossing out and over the target line?

 

It can be crossing over.   But the important point is the direction it is traveling at impact.   As noted in the video moving right on the downward side and left on the upward side of the plane.     How the golfer angles this plane during their swing determines where it will cross the target line.   Someone would have to swing completely inside the target line to never cross.

[golfsticks]

Thanks,  that's a little clearer.  Crossing over that line gives me the shakes just thinking about it.

[Liveonce]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

 

How dare you make personal attacks on here...

[Obee]

Good topic. Could totally see how this could happen to some.

 

[naj959]

3 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Keep the right shoulder higher, left lower and swing more left?

I hit some nasty low hooks for a period. Did my do diligence and figured out what was causing me too get stuck. You can't drop the right shoulder down if you're going to shallow.  If one is going to shallow then they need to have a good understanding of what match ups are required. Once I understood that I had to balance the steepening and shallowing elements in my swing I was back on track. So the wrists or leg work shallows the club and the right shoulder staying high and moving out brings it back on plane.

[b.mattay]

For what is is worth, the more I shallow it, the more fade-biased I get. Better shaft angle=better pivot=more left path 

[MonteScheinblum]

I love hearing this bmat 

[ALIF]

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.

 

Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap that shows up on my lesson tee.

When I tell them to cast and come over the top, they want to run, but when club head speed goes up and path neutralizes...they say hmmm?!

This was me when I showed up on Monte‘s lesson tee several years ago.

[ALIF]

41 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

For what is is worth, the more I shallow it, the more fade-biased I get. Better shaft angle=better pivot=more left path 

Monte, could you extrapolate on this and explain why this is so?

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, ALIF said:

Monte, could you extrapolate on this and explain why this is so?

Hypothetically, if you “over shallow” the club correctly with hands, wrists and arms, the only chance to hit the ball is to pivot extremely well and stay in left tilt for an extended period of time.  Have to move the bottom forward to not fat it, etc.  This done well makes it easier to promote a proper left Path and fade.  Poor left path is where myth of fade going shorter than a draw.  See DJ.

[ALIF]

4 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Hypothetically, if you “over shallow” the club correctly with hands, wrists and arms, the only chance to hit the ball is to pivot extremely well and stay in left tilt for an extended period of time.  Have to move the bottom forward to not fat it, etc.  This done well makes it easier to promote a proper left Path and fade.  Poor left path is where myth of fade going shorter than a draw.  See DJ.

Sorry for being so obtuse, but how do you “overly shallow” the hands or more importantly what feelings or things should I be trying to do to get this action?

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, ALIF said:

Sorry for being so obtuse, but how do you “overly shallow” the hands or more importantly what feelings or things should I be trying to do to get this action?

That’s the point....if you’re doing it correctly, you really can’t, because your body will react and prevent it.

 

Shallow early, steepen late.