Your latest efforts to get the shaft more shallow will just make you hook the ball more.

[airjammer]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

I agree and also you have to consider hand path, AMG did a good video on it and it was why it didn’t work for me.  From across the line if you rotate the shaft will get in a vertical position which is obviously no good but if you manage to keep you hands high enough for longer with the rotation and it does shallow but your hand path will be too far out towards the target line. Matt wolf will be using his wrists and also sending his hand path via arms deep. 

 

In effect he is rotating while off setting with his arms and wrists, there is nothing automatic about it. 

It’s really hard for someone to grasp the right side bend of the equation..that’s what you were missing..same for when I did the same thing. It doesn’t necessarily mean the previous part of the equation was flawed. 

[Krt22]

9 minutes ago, airjammer said:

The dean said transition or shallowing not impact.  I never saw any references to someone saying it makes impact perfect...automatically shallow yes..automatically arrive at perfect impact no. 

The whole point of shallowing is to arrive at a good impact position. If you go from super steep to still steep, yes technically you shallowed, but that isn't going to help you hit the ball better, so this notion of "automatic" is misplaced 

[airjammer]

5 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

The whole point of shallowing is to arrive at a good impact position. If you go from super steep to still steep, yes technically you shallowed, but that isn't going to help you hit the ball better, so this notion of "automatic" is misplaced 

This is onedefinition of automatic...done or occurring spontaneously, without conscious thought or intention.

 

The “juju” does achieve shallowing by physics alone. The reason Sasho wants shallowing is because if the COM falls below the hand plane your body responds by steepening later in the swing which is what you want. It makes steepening “automatic” just like where the COM is in Wolffe swing. That all I’m saying. 

[golfsticks]

No need worrying about being shallow if using a perspective which distinctly illuminates a direct route to the ball with a club that shallows the entire time.     Going out and around a trail foot visible subconsciously under regular circumstances can cause issues,  so open up the path by removing the foot and see how much space is actually there.  

 
Found this concept on a YouTube channel and it's great to see instruction like this from one of the early Big Break participants- Charles Calhoun, cool channel too.     Put a green towel covering the trail foot, marvelous view, and a wide open avenue of approach. 

 

 

 

[Nard_S]

An aspect of this that resonates with me is the importance of maintaining body angles while getting the shaft laid down. Keep left side low, turn torso down to ball, squat & crunch a bit. Years of steep programs years of stand up, so work both and you won't hook.

[TheDeanAbides]

11 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

The natural reaction to doing that and rotating is for the club to be pretty damn steep, rotation alone will not shallow it.. Funny thing is watching the Juju video at the beginning with those half swings you can see as clear as anything he is manipulating his wrists. It’s not even subtle really. 

 

What these guys have is top class club head awareness, while they rotate they know where they want the clubhead to be.  

This is not true. Try it. It happens automatically. It doesn't look like it will but the shift left swings the club over and behind you. I thought it was bull too which is why instead of knowing it was I tested it. 

[TheDeanAbides]

When I'm well enough I'll make a video and show you. I'm not here to win an argument - just to show that what happens happens. 

[Hilts1969]

8 hours ago, airjammer said:

It’s really hard for someone to grasp the right side bend of the equation..that’s what you were missing..same for when I did the same thing. It doesn’t necessarily mean the previous part of the equation was flawed. 

 

I understand the right side bend fine but if you just rotate and do nothing with the arms and wrists then I’m not sure people realise how high and towards the target line those hands would be.  

 

Everyone of the pros mentioned use their wrists to shallow it out. 

[Hilts1969]

11 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

This is not true. Try it. It happens automatically. It doesn't look like it will but the shift left swings the club over and behind you. I thought it was bull too which is why instead of knowing it was I tested it. 

 

We will just have to disagree mate

 

i have tried it many times what you are not realising is you will be aware of where in space you need the clubhead to be so you are putting it their. You may think it’s automatic but it isn’t.  

 

If you actually do it and get into that backswing position and just rotate and do absolutely nothing with the arms and wrists you will see it.

 

Now as a golfer when hitting a ball you will not let it happen because you would miss the ball by a rather embarrassing distance, so you will offset the rotation .

 

If you tell golfers just to rotate then most of them will get into real bad trouble, the fact you don’t just means you are actually better at  using your arms and wrists than them. The fact someone thinks they don’t use them is highly ironic really.

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

We will just have to disagree mate

 

i have tried it many times what you are not realising is you will be aware of where in space you need the clubhead to be so you are putting it their. You may think it’s automatic but it isn’t.  

 

If you actually do it and get into that backswing position and just rotate and do absolutely nothing with the arms and wrists you will see it.

 

Now as a golfer when hitting a ball you will not let it happen because you would miss the ball by a rather embarrassing distance, so you will offset the rotation .

 

If you tell golfers just to rotate then most of them will get into real bad trouble, the fact you don’t just means you are actually better at  using your arms and wrists than them. The fact someone thinks they don’t use them is highly ironic really.

Thanks for being respectful - I appreciate it. 

 

I think it's possible that may be misunderstanding the sequencing though. Nobody said that you just rotate from the top - that's a guarantee of disaster with any swing. You make the backswing without setting your wrists at all and then transition. If you don't make your first move back a proper transition then all bets are off. It's the correct transition from the ground up that sets the club correctly. 

Also, respectfully, it's not your place to tell me that what I'm doing and feeling with my own body - my wrists in this case - isn't what I'm actually doing. I know when I'm actively doing something with my hands/wrists and when I'm not. 

I was interested to see if this swing concept could be effective and whether the claims made were correct, and, in my experience, if you do exactly as suggested the club is put into a position from which you can go as hard at it as you want. I have done it in slow motion and at all other speeds and if there's any active attempt to shallow the club it's horrible. 

 

I'm currently having a really tough time with my body due to M.E. so I won't be going into this stuff any further. I have no desire to debate endlessly. Thanks and good luck with your golf. 

[golfsticks]

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

[glk]

8 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

So much wrong with this.   Please do not drop your right shoulder, hang back and swing way out to the right.    Just giving monte more customers.

 

[golfsticks]

On the contrary, it's a winning formula.  Dropping trail shoulder and hanging back/swing out to the right, do not necessarily have to occupy the same space in time for good players.  You can drop and still remain inside and through.     

[glk]

4 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

On the contrary, it's a winning formula.  Dropping trail shoulder and hanging back/swing out to the right, do not necessarily have to occupy the same space in time for good players.  You can drop and still remain inside and through.     

No it is not.  Can you swing that way and play decent golf, sure but you arnet seeing any really good players making that move.   And you will see many more folks struggle especially with low point and having to slide and ee to hit the ball.  The left shoulder stays down in transition and shoulder don’t level out until around shaft parallel.    But go ahead and drop your shoulder and keep your head over your trail foot.

Edited January 13, 2021 by glk

[golfsticks]

Please continue believing what you will. 

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

Asking for back surgery. 

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, golfsticks said:

On the contrary, it's a winning formula.  Dropping trail shoulder and hanging back/swing out to the right, do not necessarily have to occupy the same space in time for good players.  You can drop and still remain inside and through.     

You are talking about two different things. Dropping it early and tilting away from the target and right side bend later in the swing are not at all the same. Early tilt away from the target is a death move, even for the guys that have big slides to get through the ball. Having a path that is 6-10 degrees in to out is army golf all day long (speaking from experience)

Edited January 13, 2021 by Krt22

[SPIF]

7 hours ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

 

He has a better understanding of how camera focus works than the golf swing.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Krt22 said:

You are talking about two different things. Dropping it early and tilting away from the target and right side bend later in the swing are not at all the same. Early tilt away from the target is a death move, even for the guys that have big slides to get through the ball. Having a path that is 6-10 degrees in to out is army golf all day long (speaking from experience)

Actually, I often see double digit right with this move.  The more time you spend on the lesson tee, the more you see how extremes that make sense in theory, are a disaster in reality and practical application.  

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Actually, I often see double digit right with this move.  The more time you spend on the lesson tee, the more you see how extremes that make sense in theory, are a disaster in reality and practical application.  

Left, Left.... Left, Right, Left

[Shupe]

7 hours ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

Haha, I pray that no one pays this guy to teach them...

[MonteScheinblum]

31 minutes ago, Shupe said:

Haha, I pray that no one pays this guy to teach them...

Insert famous Billy Madsen scene.

[golfsticks]

It's not theory, it's not a disaster, it's not army golf, as I said before it's one of many valid ways to shallow, agreed a little unknown, but good pros should know this and work with it,  not against it.   If a person is not good enough to manage it, fine, find something else, the menu is open.      Good enough for 10 wins and a major. 

 

https://www.secretgolf.com/videos/vintage-vault/matches/1995-rhubarb-tournament/1995-rhubarb-tournament--hole-5-cypress-creek-at-champions-gc-

[Krt22]

49 minutes ago, Shupe said:

Haha, I pray that no one pays this guy to teach them...

It's so bad I can't tell if he's serious or if it's purely satire, the CPG blur makes it an even harder call. So it's either brilliant or quite possibly the stinkiest golf cesspool on youtube

[Krt22]

18 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

It's not theory, it's not a disaster, it's not army golf, as I said before it's one of many valid ways to shallow, agreed a little unknown, but good pros should know this and work with it,  not against it.   If a person is not good enough to manage it, fine, find something else, the menu is open.      Good enough for 10 wins and a major. 

 

https://www.secretgolf.com/videos/vintage-vault/matches/1995-rhubarb-tournament/1995-rhubarb-tournament--hole-5-cypress-creek-at-champions-gc-

lol...I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or if you are a troll hoping to ruin a few people's swings. Ignore list getting updated in...3...2..

[golfsticks]

Just participating in the discussion as best I can so perhaps ignoring is not a bad idea for you since I have no idea why you think trolling is involved. 

[ALIF]

9 hours ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

Worst advice ever as it pertains to swinging a golf club!!! I know from experience.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, golfsticks said:

Just participating in the discussion as best I can so perhaps ignoring is not a bad idea for you since I have no idea why you think trolling is involved. 

You are peddling universally bad advice that no credible instructor would ever advocate. Some yahoo in his backyard who conceals his identity doesn't count and speaks volumes on the quality of his content.  So at this point trolling makes more sense than actually thinking this is sound advice

[freowho]

9 hours ago, glk said:

No it is not.  Can you swing that way and play decent golf, sure but you arnet seeing any really good players making that move.   And you will see many more folks struggle especially with low point and having to slide and ee to hit the ball.  The left shoulder stays down in transition and shoulder don’t level out until around shaft parallel.    But go ahead and drop your shoulder and keep your head over your trail foot.

You only have to slide and early extend if you're a slave to the alignment stick.

[freowho]

6 hours ago, Krt22 said:

You are talking about two different things. Dropping it early and tilting away from the target and right side bend later in the swing are not at all the same. Early tilt away from the target is a death move, even for the guys that have big slides to get through the ball. Having a path that is 6-10 degrees in to out is army golf all day long (speaking from experience)

Your path will only be inside if you are a slave to the alignment stick. If you went to a junior clinic and said I'll give $100 to the longest drive it would be the most natural move amongst the group.