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Your latest efforts to get the shaft more shallow will just make you hook the ball more.


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6 hours ago, Krt22 said:

You are talking about two different things. Dropping it early and tilting away from the target and right side bend later in the swing are not at all the same. Early tilt away from the target is a death move, even for the guys that have big slides to get through the ball. Having a path that is 6-10 degrees in to out is army golf all day long (speaking from experience)

Your path will only be inside if you are a slave to the alignment stick. If you went to a junior clinic and said I'll give $100 to the longest drive it would be the most natural move amongst the group. 

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People drop the rear shoulder to do and and that’s a 2 way miss.  It’s a wrist movement.   Yank the handle for lag, dump the right shoulder to shallow.  That’s almost every 4-10 handicap tha

I’m going to hate myself in the morning.    ‘I’ve been around Trevino a few times.  I did an outing with him, saw him at PGA West all the time and he actually used me to hustle a big donation t

No. You discuss it.

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4 minutes ago, freowho said:

Your path will only be inside if you are a slave to the alignment stick. If you went to a junior clinic and said I'll give $100 to the longest drive it would be the most natural move amongst the group. 

I would advise against you attending Jr clinics, especially if you are going to be handing out $100 to kids who are not your own

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1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

No, just no. You have to slide and early extend or you'd hit every single shot 6" or more behind the ball. 

You're quite stuck with your limited thoughts on how to play golf and are quite happy to belittle others. What he is explaining is Lee Trevino's golf swing. No early extension, no hitting behind the ball, open stance. 6 majors.

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16 minutes ago, freowho said:

You're quite stuck with your limited thoughts on how to play golf and are quite happy to belittle others. What he is explaining is Lee Trevino's golf swing. No early extension, no hitting behind the ball, open stance. 6 majors.

I would have never have tried to teach an Am Lee Trevino's golf swing... If you tried to teach that move, every single person and I repeat EVERY PERSON would stop rotating, get stuck in side bend, extend and throw out their back by the end of the lesson... Trevino was A) built differently in terms of his stature/dimensions and B) had amazing rotation through the ball that very few Ams have.  Also, Trevino hit a push fade almost every time (not something you want to teach)...  Just because someone is good at doing something should never be enough justification as to teaching someone else to do a similar thing.  That is just terrible teaching.

 

This thread is completely off the rails..

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4 minutes ago, Shupe said:

I would have never have tried to teach an Am Lee Trevino's golf swing... If you tried to teach that move, every single person and I repeat EVERY PERSON would stop rotating, get stuck in side bend, extend and throw out their back by the end of the lesson... Trevino was A) built differently in terms of his stature/dimensions and B) had amazing rotation through the ball that very few Ams have.  Also, Trevino hit a push fade almost every time (not something you want to teach)...  Just because someone is good at doing something should never be enough justification as to teaching someone else to do a similar thing.  That is just terrible teaching.

 

This thread is completely off the rails..

It's terrible teaching to dismiss it as a way to play golf because many people are "built differently in terms of their stature/dimensions". Are you saying no one else in the world is built like Lee Trevino? Joaquin Niemann goes alright. Yes, many will struggle but some will thrive on it. Not every person would stop rotating. Maybe the guy in the video thinks everyone should swing like that. I don't agree everyone should swing like that. But I'm also not going to dismiss as a way to play golf when it's been proven by some to be a very good way to play golf. People keep looking for the secret but the secret is to be true to yourself. If you stand with your hips out, swing with your hips out. If you stand with your hips in, swing with your hips in. 

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Just now, freowho said:

It's terrible teaching to dismiss it as a way to play golf because many people are "built differently in terms of their stature/dimensions". Are you saying no one else in the world is built like Lee Trevino? Joaquin Niemann goes alright. Yes, many will struggle but some will thrive on it. Not every person would stop rotating. Maybe the guy in the video thinks everyone should swing like that. I don't agree everyone should swing like that. But I'm also not going to dismiss as a way to play golf when it's been proven by some to be a very good way to play golf. People keep looking for the secret but the secret is to be true to yourself. If you stand with your hips out, swing with your hips out. If you stand with your hips in, swing with your hips in. 

I don't think you understand.  There is a difference between proven to be good and proven to be a good way to teach.  Please separate these in your mind because you are doing a major disservice to anyone you come in contact with not understanding this concept. 

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1 minute ago, Shupe said:

I don't think you understand.  There is a difference between proven to be good and proven to be a good way to teach.  Please separate these in your mind because you are doing a major disservice to anyone you come in contact with not understanding this concept. 

Would you have changed Trevino's swing?

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Just now, freowho said:

That's my point. So why are people dismissing the video as a way to play golf? 

Because, if an Am came to me with that swing and they were having issues relating to that swing, then hell yes I would instantly start teaching them something different.  If an Am came to me and they were flushing it with that swing, why in the world would I change it.  You still don't get the point.  Also on top of that there is no world in which someone comes to me and wants to shallow the club or needs to shallow the club leaving me to tell them go watch videos of ol' Lee.  

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48 minutes ago, Shupe said:

I would have never have tried to teach an Am Lee Trevino's golf swing... If you tried to teach that move, every single person and I repeat EVERY PERSON would stop rotating, get stuck in side bend, extend and throw out their back by the end of the lesson... Trevino was A) built differently in terms of his stature/dimensions and B) had amazing rotation through the ball that very few Ams have.  Also, Trevino hit a push fade almost every time (not something you want to teach)...  Just because someone is good at doing something should never be enough justification as to teaching someone else to do a similar thing.  That is just terrible teaching.

 

This thread is completely off the rails..

 

Another wide brush.   "EVERY SINGLE PERSON"?  Really?  Not even close.    If someone totally new came for lessons and said my dad wants me to learn Trevino's swing it would be a piece of cake whether or not there were some natural tendencies already present, or limited athletic coordination, and would have nothing to do with their back.  Where do you guys get these unfounded ideas.     Trevino didn't have many shots in the bag...lol

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5 minutes ago, Shupe said:

Because, if an Am came to me with that swing and they were having issues relating to that swing, then hell yes I would instantly start teaching them something different.  If an Am came to me and they were flushing it with that swing, why in the world would I change it.  You still don't get the point.  Also on top of that there is no world in which someone comes to me and wants to shallow the club or needs to shallow the club leaving me to tell them go watch videos of ol' Lee.  

I didn't agree with people saying you couldn't play golf that way when you clearly can and is sometimes the best way for some people to play golf, which is what you've just written.

You might not want to agree with me but I agree with you. 🙂

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1 minute ago, golfsticks said:

 

Another wide brush.   "EVERY SINGLE PERSON"?  Really?  Not even close.    If someone totally new came for lessons and said my dad wants me to learn Trevino's swing it would be a piece of cake whether or not there were some natural tendencies already present, or limited athletic coordination, and would have nothing to do with their back.  Where do you guys get these crazy ideas.     Trevino didn't have many shots in the bag...lol

Yes... Every person would get stuck there if they do not naturally make that swing.  That is not a natural motion.   

 

Where did I say Trevino didn't have many shots in the bag... The guy had some of the best hands of all time.

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1 minute ago, freowho said:

I didn't agree with people saying you couldn't play golf that way when you clearly can and is sometimes the best way for some people to play golf, which is what you've just written.

You might not want to agree with me but I agree with you. 🙂

I came into the conversation late.  I assumed you were promoting that ridiculous teaching video as a way to shallow the swing.

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13 minutes ago, Shupe said:

Yes... Every person would get stuck there if they do not naturally make that swing.  That is not a natural motion.   

 

Where did I say Trevino didn't have many shots in the bag... The guy had some of the best hands of all time.

That makes absolutely makes no sense to me.   I said someone totally new, meaning never picked up a club before, and if they naturally leaned toward Trevino characteristics, or was totally uncoordinated, it would not be difficult to teach Trevino's motion to them and it would not affect their back one iota, and it's as natural as any other motion, it's just motion.    Your stuck on swings, and intra moves, having to fit into some sort of box to be recognized as good- not a good place for players to be.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 That makes absolutely makes no sense.   I said someone totally new, meaning never picked up a club before, and if they naturally leaned toward Trevino characteristics, or was totally uncoordinated, it would not be difficult to teach Trevino's motion to them and it would not affect their back one iota.    Your stuck on swings, and intra moves, having to fit into some sort of box to be recognized as good- not a good place for players to be.

 

"If someone totally new came for lessons and said my dad wants me to learn Trevino's swing it would be a piece of cake whether or not there were some natural tendencies already present, or limited athletic coordination, and would have nothing to do with their back."

 

Simple answer: No, I would never teach anyone Trevino's swing if they do not already flush it with that swing.  That is malpractice.  

 

This hypothetical would never happen... If someone comes to me asking to swing like Trevino having never played golf, I will never touch another club and get a job at the local fast food joint.

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4 minutes ago, Shupe said:

"If someone totally new came for lessons and said my dad wants me to learn Trevino's swing it would be a piece of cake whether or not there were some natural tendencies already present, or limited athletic coordination, and would have nothing to do with their back."

 

Simple answer: No, I would never teach anyone Trevino's swing if they do not already flush it with that swing.  That is malpractice.  

 

This hypothetical would never happen... If someone comes to me asking to swing like Trevino having never played golf, I will never touch another club and get a job at the local fast food joint.

 

Someone totally new isn't going to flush anything.  And those type hypotheticals do actually happen on a lesson tee.

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5 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

Maybe, maybe not. Exaggeration drills work to balance things out and could be something to try if it worked for them and helped their swing, right? 

That is getting really complicated, the hypothetical golfer that fails to go into side bend is hard to find.  I would guess more often then not it would be some physical limitation that would lead to this issue or it is a completely new player that has never touched a club (at which point I would send them out with a bucket of balls and I can assure you that they will find some side bend through trial and error).  You have to remember we are talking about a seriously bad exaggeration of going straight into side bend off the top of the swing.  In general, exaggeration is really good, but not when you are doing an exaggeration that is out of the normal order of operations.

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4 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

Someone totally new isn't going to flush anything.  And those type hypotheticals do actually happen on a lesson tee.

So, then we just came full circle.  If they are not flushing it, then I can guarantee you that going into side bend off the top of the swing is going to be their major issue.  

 

Please, give me the story of the person that came to you asking to swing just like Trevino...

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8 minutes ago, Shupe said:

I came into the conversation late.  I assumed you were promoting that ridiculous teaching video as a way to shallow the swing.

It probably looked like I was barracking for the video.

Although we might again disagree on my next point. 🙂

The only thing I think should be taught is how to apply forces to the club so the clubface hits the back of the ball with as much controlled speed as possible. Although, this simple action can take a lot of teaching. I think it's very nuanced. Anything after that is purely the result of a persons individual makeup. 

For example, Mickey wright had a natural forward posture away from golf so she hits the ball with a forward posture. Ben Hogan looks like Yul Brynner in the King and I when he talks to people, so it's only natural that he hits it the ball with his hips out. Two of the best golfers in the history of the game with completely different looking swings but both with the same basic principle. 

So, with regards to the video, no I don't think it should be taught. But some people will naturally swing like that when swinging into the back of the ball and it can be a very good way for some people to play. 

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