Your latest efforts to get the shaft more shallow will just make you hook the ball more.

[pinhigh27]

the quality of that video matches the quality of the advice given

[Shupe]

2 minutes ago, freowho said:

It probably looked like I was barracking for the video.

Although we might again disagree on my next point. 🙂

The only thing I think should be taught is how to apply forces to the club so the clubface hits the back of the ball with as much controlled speed as possible. Although, this simple action can take a lot of teaching. I think it's very nuanced. Anything after that is purely the result of a persons individual makeup. 

For example, Mickey wright had a natural forward posture away from golf so she hits the ball with a forward posture. Ben Hogan looks like Yul Brynner in the King and I when he talks to people, so it's only natural that he hits it the ball with his hips out. Two of the best golfers in the history of the game with completely different looking swings but both with the same basic principle. 

So, with regards to the video, no I don't think it should be taught. But some people will naturally swing like that when swinging into the back of the ball and it can be a very good way for some people to play. 

It all depends on the goals of the player.  Some people come to you and want to leave 30 min later hitting the ball better.  For that person I would agree, I would give them some simple alignment fixes or swing thoughts and not change much of anything.  For the player that wants to improve overtime, there are certain aspects within a golf swing that would create major improvements down the road. 

For, example, going into side bend straight off the top of the swing would be pretty close to first on my list for an over time focused player teacher relationship.  I would say that I teach into a somewhat cookie cutter style when it comes to a player looking to improve over a long period of time.  But, if someone just wants to maintain or get a little better, then yes it would be a lot more about maximizing their tendencies.

 

 

[Krt22]

26 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

Maybe, maybe not. Exaggeration drills work to balance things out and could be something to try if it worked for them and helped their swing, right? 

I agree with the notion of exaggeration drills, but most exaggeration drills are exaggerating the correct/desired motion, not something inherently bad. In the extreme case you mentioned, it would really only be useful if being watched by an instructor. "It's going to feel like you are tilting away from the target" is different than "I want you to excessively tilt away from the target". Either way, this guy isn't posting about drills, he's trying to sell an actual swing pattern. He does the same wacky stuff in multiple videos

[MK7Golf21]

10 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I agree with the notion of exaggeration drills, but most exaggeration drills are exaggerating the correct/desired motion, not something inherently bad. In the extreme case you mentioned, it would really only be useful if being watched by an instructor. "It's going to feel like you are tilting away from the target" is different than "I want you to excessively tilt away from the target". Either way, this guy isn't posting about drills, he's trying to sell an actual swing pattern. He does the same wacky stuff in multiple videos

Right, he’s teaching it as something for everyone and majorly exaggerating which isn’t right.

[MonteScheinblum]

I’m going to hate myself in the morning. 
 

‘I’ve been around Trevino a few times.  I did an outing with him, saw him at PGA West all the time and he actually used me to hustle a big donation to charity from a rich guy at a Champions event.

 

If he saw that video, he would want to fight all the people who made any reference to his swing and that video.  
 

He did not shallow by dropping the right shoulder early.  He’s level at P6, just like most elite golfers.  The shallowing motion was mostly arm and hand path manipulation.  He then right tilts a ton at impact.  
 

Early right tilt is one of the most common issues on my lesson tee and that video was not an exaggeration drill.  He was saying that’s what you’re supposed to do.  The evidence is he shows a good way and says it’s wrong.  That video is dangerous and anyone trying that will end up in a bad place and possibly injure themselves.  

 

I have really grown tired of, “There is more than one way to swing a golf club,”  as an Avenue to promote something that is universally awful.

 

Can you get to Canada from North Dakota by going through Nebraska?  Yes.  Would anyone suggest that’s an efficient way to do it?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[SPIF]

8 hours ago, freowho said:

That's my point. So why are people dismissing the video as a way to play golf? 

Because it's not a good way to play golf.  

 

It's a horrible abomination and can lead to some serious back injuries while simultaneously shifting swing path absurdly out and creating a low point several feet behind the ball.

Edited January 14, 2021 by SPIF

[Zitlow]

 

I get where he's going but don't agree with how he's getting there. 

 

If you look at it in the context that the plane is dynamic vs static it makes sense. This is a video from his YouTube channel. 

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

6 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

I get where he's going but don't agree with how he's getting there. 

 

If you look at it in the context that the plane is dynamic vs static it makes sense. This is a video from his YouTube channel. 

 

 

How did this thread get on this guy, lol. Admittedly, I haven’t read this thread at all. Isn’t there better stuff to discuss on this topic then this guy who’s channel isn’t worth anyone’s time

[Krt22]

59 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

How did this thread get on this guy, lol. Admittedly, I haven’t read this thread at all. Isn’t there better stuff to discuss on this topic then this guy who’s channel isn’t worth anyone’s time

It is about shallowing, many discussing the incorrect way to shallow (early tilt away from the target), then this fella posted this other fella. It's the same guy, I just went down the rabbit hole to see his other "content". It's basically an old guy rambling in his backyard with an assortment of wacky swing aides and contrived motions. And then someone somehow compared him to Trevino

 

14 hours ago, golfsticks said:

Several ways to shallow, none more correct than others.   Upper cut your way out. 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Krt22

[Nard_S]

This is nothing like Trevino and it's a flat out insult to him to mention him with this video.

 

Go ahead, swing like that guy, do it long and hard enough and you'll lose a disc in your lower back. Not kidding.

 

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

 

 

Ouch, Patio Yoda gonna hurt his back doing that.

[Golfbeat]

Nuff said about that guy. My issue is actually getting rid of shallowing by getting the right shoulder down. Watching this video is painful. 

[Zitlow]

11 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Ouch, Patio Yoda gonna hurt his back doing that.

 

For sure, his feet locked to the ground is very bad on the back and also freezes the lower 6 pairs of joints (levers) limiting the lower body from adding force.

[pinhigh27]

3 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

For sure, his feet locked to the ground is very bad on the back and also freezes the lower 6 pairs of joints (levers) limiting the lower body from adding force.

locked to the ground?

[Zitlow]

@pinhigh27

Static, it would be hard to walk if your heels were immobilized by staying attached to the ground. 

 

[Krt22]

3 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

Nuff said about that guy. My issue is actually getting rid of shallowing by getting the right shoulder down. Watching this video is painful. 

You and every other hooker of the ball.  (myself included)

 

14 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

I get where he's going but don't agree with how he's getting there. 

 

If you look at it in the context that the plane is dynamic vs static it makes sense. This is a video from his YouTube channel. 

 

 

How you get there is just as important (if not more important) than the position itself (which in this case is still very bad). 

 

That is like saying someone took a nice divot and ignoring the fact that it was behind the ball instead of in front of it

Edited January 14, 2021 by Krt22

[Krt22]

20 minutes ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

I have accumulated maybe a couple of dozen books by the greats in playing and teaching.

 

Maybe six of them discuss explicitly shallowing the shaft, and they all say it is the result of proper body motion during the transition.

 

The silence of the 18 supports the position of the 6, because, if the 18 had believed that some sort of intentional hand, wrist, or arm motion was indicated, they would have said so.  

And modern tech (radar, 3D motion capture, force plates, etc) has invalidated numerous concepts that were pushed by many playing and teaching greats, there is a good chance many of those relics are obsolete at this point. Many have played great golf despite using flawed concepts, that doesn't mean your average golfer looking to improve should go down that path.

[Etr1982]

All of you who are saying it’s not an automatic shallowing….have you ever swung a baseball bat? Did it feel natural? Of course. And you shallow the hell out of a baseball bat… 
 

Now do the same thing, just tilt your vertical axis a bit….voila, you have the juju/wolff/countless others swing. It works, and for anyone with some athleticism, it feels as automatic as swinging a bat. 

[DShepley]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:17 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s the point....if you’re doing it correctly, you really can’t, because your body will react and prevent it.

 

Shallow early, steepen late.

 

 

The 'Poster Child' for steepen late....

 

 

[Hilts1969]

14 hours ago, Etr1982 said:

All of you who are saying it’s not an automatic shallowing….have you ever swung a baseball bat? Did it feel natural? Of course. And you shallow the hell out of a baseball bat… 
 

Now do the same thing, just tilt your vertical axis a bit….voila, you have the juju/wolff/countless others swing. It works, and for anyone with some athleticism, it feels as automatic as swinging a bat. 

 

A baseball bat doesn’t have a face you need to square, strangely enough swing like a baseball bat and the face will be wide open. That’s what swinging naturally does.