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Putter Shape and its Effects on Aim Bias


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My findings.   I have been looking for a Bonafide place to put and share my experience on the putting surface over the last 3 years. I have settled on the space right here. My Apologies

Mark a spot on a piece of paper (or pick a letter on your computer screen or something like that). Make a circle with your thumb and forefinger. With both eyes open, put the circle so the mark is in t

This research is spot on in my experience, and a great help to putter fitters (what few there are). Over the past 3 years I’ve been dissecting my own approach to putting and putters and have found a l

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We had also used multiple lasers for measuring static aim bias

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hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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What aim biases did you find with different dominant eyes. I'm RH left eye dominant and can't stand even to look at a plumbers neck. It doesn't seem to make any sense to my mind from a design standpoint. I can only deal with a symmetrical design, preferably with zero offset. Interested to see if this correlates with any left eye dominant testing.

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did you do any testing with a BullsEye? (putting from both sides of the ball)

 

I use one and find about 20% of my non tap in putts just look better standing on the other side of the ball. Mostly these are shorter 3-8 footers where the break is a away from me ( lefty ) I guess I just like a hook look on both sides of the putt

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Do you have any idea why grooves matter in a putter/

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3 Wood Titleist 913 15 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

5 Wood Titleist 913 19 Diamana ilima 70 stiff

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6 hours ago, vman said:

What aim biases did you find with different dominant eyes. I'm RH left eye dominant and can't stand even to look at a plumbers neck. It doesn't seem to make any sense to my mind from a design standpoint. I can only deal with a symmetrical design, preferably with zero offset. Interested to see if this correlates with any left eye dominant testing.

 

I am right eye dominate as will and am the opposite. I like offset and every non-offset putter hasn't stayed in the bag long.

Driver Titleist TS3 10.5 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

3 Wood Titleist 913 15 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

5 Wood Titleist 913 19 Diamana ilima 70 stiff

Irons 3-PW Tommy Amour Silverback 845C Dynalite Gold stiff

Gap wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 52 Dynalite Gold stiff

Lob wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 58 Dynalite Gold stiff

Putter Wilson 8813 oil can finish

 

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We had one Bullseye type putter and did not test RH vs LH for the same golfer. Anecdotally have tried it with some degree of success, the switch hitting. 

 

For the Offset question, the Idea of the plumbers neck is to allow for more view of the topline. If you dont like it i would say it is just personal.

a slant neck full shaft offset and a plumb neck full shaft offset mat give you the same results/ toe hang... but may look cleaner to your eye.

And we are all just trying to trick our brain to see striaght.

 

Grooves are important because the grip the ball ever so slightly, to prevent slipping up the putter face or causing the detrimental backspin.

the grooves can also help the launch of the ball under different types of circumstances for each players launch characteristics.

 

static Aim bias - launch - roll - skid - dynamic delivery

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Thoughts on center shafted putters?  Did you all test anything like the Golf LABS B2 Blad?

 

https://labgolf.com/

 

 

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On 12/20/2020 at 6:03 PM, SnowmanShanks said:

 

I have been looking for a Bonafide place to put and share my experience on the putting surface over the last 3 years. I have settled on the space right here.

My Apologies if this has been covered before, but I looked high and low. I also am tired of trying to help people fitting in a golf store when I dont work there.

Currently I am a 2.5 Handicap, I can score anywhere from 65 to 82 on any given day. I keep track of everything I do, even long range days.

After graduating in Mathematics with some professional athletes in my family, I decided to spend my time on a putting green (It kind of marries the two,

the physical application of geometry) Roughly 3 - 5 hours per day

My testing was done on greens at 9 stimp and at 12 stimp. the findings between the speeds were almost irrelevant (for Aim)

I own 14 different synthetic putting greens and have also owned over 40 putters at one time. My nearby brother also built a sand based double cut 250

sq ft putting green outdoors, which I visit often. Also have vast q-tec knowledge after extensive use.

 

For any of the Below I would recommend before shape fitting, to properly fit your length and lie.

 

Distance of face to hosel length ie. 3/4 1/2 full shaft offset no offset

The greater the amount of offset, the greater tendency to aim to the hook side. If you tend to leave your putter open this may help you.

Ideal is obviously square, however most PGA pros will find that the putter face open 1 degree is much better than closed 1 degree.

Not exact science just my research.

 

Toe hang.

This is a tough one for me to distinguish. I have heard more vs less, etc, closure rates. etc.

Modern logic will tell you that a higher toe hang weight (pointing down when horizontal) will slow the putter face down and leave open.

I cannot imagine this to be true. For a late release or a faster closer rate and forward ball position, I have witnessed the exact opposite.

More toe hang will result in ball moving further towards the hook side. Most golfers have higher closure rates. (static vs dynamic aim angle)

(With respect to the closure rates and toe hang, most club golfers rotate the face ALOT. After my research I have noticed the best closure rates around 15 degrees to 10 ROC. This is very small but still not Square to Square face balanced)

If you release the club late or release the club to square from the inside, you would be better served on 45 degree hang or less.

Toe hang has never been an exact science. I found it difficult to quantify.

If your putter has lots of toe hang, I would not recommend moving ball placement forward by more than 1 ball.

 

Flat back vs rounded (less flat)

This is the perpendicular side to your putting line. A flat rear will cause you to unknowingly aim your putter towards the hook side.

A more rounded putter will cause you to aim towards the slice side.

There is *some* causation variables happening here and will explain in next section.

 

Distance from Rear to front of putter

The longer the distance from the back of the putter to the front, the more likely your aim tendency will be towards the slice side.

The shorter the distance, the more towards the hook side.

Here is where we experienced an extra variable because finding round and shallow depth length putters were slightly difficult as there are not many.

Also in my findings I found it difficult for mallet putters to consistently aim to the hook side (static aim only). 

 

LINES

Lines generally follow distance from front to rear of putter because they will either focus your eye to the back or front.

Topline = decreases distance front to rear. (more hook side aim bias)

Flangeline = increases distance to rear. (more slice side aim bias)

Also a longer line(s) on your putter will cause you to further aim bias on the slice side.

I have also tested 4 different putters with a Dot. 

Dots and lines. or a Dot with a Flange line. The Dot acted as a topline for the most part.

A naked putter could potentially be used either way as some player aim with a perpendicular edge at the rear, or using the flange line.

Railway types of lines also contributed further to aiming on the slice side.

 

Color

For fun we had grouped putters based on colors.

High contrast (red, white, etc.) caused a slight aim bias to the slice side.

Black and dark color caused a slight aim to the hook side.

steel, unfinished, tour mist, caused a slight aim bias to the hook side.

The more colors that were incorporated into the putter increased the magnitude of the bias.

Shaft color was not statistically relevant.

Grip color was not stat relevant.

 

Face balanced vs toe hang

Everyone is different here and I would find out your closure rates before shopping putters based on the degree of toe hang.

I am reluctant to post any findings here. I do believe from our evidence that the amount of offset was as much or of greater importance 

than the amount of toe hang.

 

Other findings

The ideal amount of loft was between 2 and 7 degs. static Loft, AoA, amount of offset and Dynamic loft all need to be measured in unison.

More loft is always better than less loft.

Grooves Helped in nearly every application.

The ideal amount of forward roll was anywhere between -10 to +60 (dependant on AoA, Loft, Dynamic loft)

(this was a variable tested out on slow vs fast greens)

Golfers hit down on the ball more than they realize ( yes even when putting )

Feel = sound = how a putter handles vibration = not statistically relevant

Swing weight can have an absolutely absurd amount of impact on putter delivery, affecting static loft, dynamic loft, dynamic aim, closure rate, vibration, acceleration.

A heavier putter transferred more energy into the ball (20 grams roughly equates 4%, ceterus parabus)

Putting tempo - length of backswing - length of front swing, were all significant to Swing weight and club delivery and had an effect on speed.

a CONSTANT or slowly DECELERATING type stroke usually produced far more consistent results, from player to player

A more round grip will slow closure rate / a flatter or squarer grip will increase it.

A larger grip will slow closure rate / a smaller grip will increase closure rates.

Putter inserts has no stat sig. effect on aim.

Putter inserts vs no insert had an effect on launch and fwd roll, not relevant to the test. However the misses that were relevant increased the magnitude of the miss due to less than ideal launch characteristics on putters without grooves. This is my next test.

High MOI putters had less race rotation as CoG was farther back from face

High MOI putters with and without grooves changes the Launch AoA, and other Dynamic factors.

High MoI putters missing to the hook side caused an increase of magnitude of the miss.

 

Good luck and have fun.

 

If anyone has a question on a putter, we have likely used it, ask away (please for the love of all that is Holy, DO NOT ASK ME HOW A PUTTER FEELS...)

 

Testing process.

Over 3 years.

Each putter on a an 9 and 12 stimp synthetic green (usually) that was perfectly flat at 6 12 and 16 ft.

40 putts per putter between 6 golfers with another 20 or so other golfers rotating through. all varying stroke types and putter uses. 

different dominate eyes, and also interestingly had 2 color blind golfers(omitted from color test)

mis hit putts were omitted from test, putts left short or outside of acceptable range left or right were omitted from test.

 


Excellent thread, mate. I’ve been spending time on my putting and starting to pay attention to a few issues that u discussed. 
Who knew that putting could be so complicated...

 

Cheers

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putting in itself is so maddingly frustrating yet satisfying. promises of achieving perfection with such a easy and simple movement, yet the best in the world cannot sink a 6 foot putt more than 50 percent of the time.

 

I have looked at LAB putters.

I do not believe in any type of torque or toe flow type of argument. I think how the putter sits, aims, rolls, launches... would have a greater effect vs tow flow.

 

one may alter the closer rate due to the toe flow. (modern logic)

But here is an example of how we noticed that did not make sense.

 

Take a regular newport 2 off the rack.

scotty cameron plumb hosel, and take the weights out.

you are left with an ~ 320 gram head.

putt with it.

add in extremely heavy weights, maybe even 385 grams. heavy grip with additional counter weighting.

putt with it.

 

the putters have the EXACT same toe flow.

the launch and delivery were extremely different, and funny enough the static aim bias also changed significantly.

 

If I was shopping for a putter ( always )

the variable that you cannot seem to get over . which most golfers don't realize is to absolutely NAIL the static aim before you shop for lines or launch or roll

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Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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1 hour ago, Hstead said:

Thoughts on center shafted putters?  Did you all test anything like the Golf LABS B2 Blad?

 

https://labgolf.com/

 

 

make sure your alignment and aim tendency is in check before committing to a Centre shafted front aim biased blade.

you may push everything out to slice side

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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9 hours ago, vman said:

What aim biases did you find with different dominant eyes. I'm RH left eye dominant and can't stand even to look at a plumbers neck. It doesn't seem to make any sense to my mind from a design standpoint. I can only deal with a symmetrical design, preferably with zero offset. Interested to see if this correlates with any left eye dominant testing.

left eye dominant as a RH putter will have you normally having the putter look slightly OPEN because you are seeing more loft at address. My findings would suggest a symmetrical short depth putter with a topline or dot would be your best bet.

I do not have your numbers regarding delivery and launch however. 

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Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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3 hours ago, shart6 said:

 

I am right eye dominate as will and am the opposite. I like offset and every non-offset putter hasn't stayed in the bag long.

I would be willing to bet that there are more factors at play here than the amount of offset...

 

there are 4 ways to look at a putter

ugly and doesn't work

looks great and doesn't work

ugly and it works

looks great and it works.

 

I have heard and seen so many comments like " oh I would never use this or... wow this is hideous...." then they pick up thier beautiful gamer and line up 7 inches to the hook side of the hole from 6 feet.

 

 

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Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Detailed write up and research. Props to you @SnowmanShanks. I love playing with putters and testing various options out. A lot of what you saw in regards to aim and misses seem to match my overall conclusions, albeit no scientific method in my reasoning. 
Righty golfer. Full shaft offset Intend to miss on the pull side. Longer flange line, I tend to miss right. Top line is definitely a left miss bias. Center shafted is push even though I think I aim it well. 
 

had decent success with full shaft offset flow neck with liner flange line. Maybe it took my left miss with my right aim and married it together nicely. (Ardmore 3 black copper) add in some lead tape weight to the head to add mass and smooth my tempo seemed to help as well, though I miss short more often. 
 

Long slant neck (tour forged Abbie) is an all time favorite to my eyes, though I do not like plumbers necks. The slant just looks right to me. 

my next test I believe will be a short slant, half shaft offset with medium/long flange line. Dark color scheme. (Cleveland soft premier 11s) heavier head with some counterbalance from heavier grip. Has the face grooves which I like. Thinking from my experiences the specs match up to what I need. 
 


 

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i just sold 4 putters this week and ordered 4 more.

Arm lock sik LA shaft 41.5 7 loft blade flange line

Arm lock mid mallet from argolf

bettinardi innovai 6.0

ping arna slant neck silver

 

sold odyssey 7 mini s exo -  the putter that gave me a 65. i found the grooves to launch the ball to high with too much top spin.

taylormade jd edition spider tour red (still had plastic on it)

toulon san diego stroke lab garage sight dot

toulon austin stroke lab garage dot

 

I am really narrowing down the optimal launch and aim bias for my eyes and delivery after what i have seen over the years.

Today I was watching someone putt two exact same putters, one flange line and one naked.

He could not aim and deliver the putter with a line on it.

 

Personally I also love rain road type lines as well it seems they offer focus to the centre without interference from a line. I also love the ideology of the military riflescope comparison vs putter aim lines (s/cameron). You can see more dense and thinner lines combined with dots, empty space.

Interestingly however, i have not seen too many companies providing lines with different thickness.

The triple track may be the closest idea, but that red white and blue may be too much for most.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Would any those factors be:

Practicing using a chalk line

Putting under pencils connected by string

Long sessions with a Teacher Putter 

A lifelong focus on solid contact (Paul Runyan disciple)

 

I putted exceptionally well with Wilson 8802s, Ansers and A-Blades (plumbers neck) through my late forties about 31 years. In my early fifties I switched to a Gauge Design M3 shorter and heavier than my blades. It is a face balanced, high moment of inertia, big mallet putter. And I putted well. Now my putting is terrible because my blood pressure medications mess up my feel.

 

I don't think I could have won nine tournaments over the years if didn't aim reasonably well.

Driver Titleist TS3 10.5 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

3 Wood Titleist 913 15 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

5 Wood Titleist 913 19 Diamana ilima 70 stiff

Irons 3-PW Tommy Amour Silverback 845C Dynalite Gold stiff

Gap wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 52 Dynalite Gold stiff

Lob wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 58 Dynalite Gold stiff

Putter Wilson 8813 oil can finish

 

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41 minutes ago, shart6 said:

Would any those factors be:

Practicing using a chalk line

Putting under pencils connected by string

Long sessions with a Teacher Putter 

A lifelong focus on solid contact (Paul Runyan disciple)

 

I putted exceptionally well with Wilson 8802s, Ansers and A-Blades (plumbers neck) through my late forties about 31 years. In my early fifties I switched to a Gauge Design M3 shorter and heavier than my blades. It is a face balanced, high moment of inertia, big mallet putter. And I putted well. Now my putting is terrible because my blood pressure medications mess up my feel.

 

I don't think I could have won nine tournaments over the years if didn't aim reasonably well.

hey and congrats. sorry about your blood pressure. 

 

I started this process to see the best putter for certain tendencies. 

 

If it helps a single person, I would be happy. For me its just a labor of passion and something to spend my time doing.

I love putter designs but it is more science than Art!

 

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Did you test CoG backwards vs more forwards? 
 

I would be especially interested in how this fares in mallets with similar MOI. One example being the Odyssey Marxman vs Ten (or TM Spider). Ten/Spider is back CoG, Marxman is much more forward and they have nearly equal MOI numbers I think.  Feels like the back CoG closes much slower and I wonder how detrimental that becomes over a certain range. Something to consider. Lots of companies trying to push CoG more forward now like Frontline, Spider FCG and Bettinardi 6.0. 
 

Cool test! 

Edited by MattUtah
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David Edel maintains that the Bullseye putter shape is by far the easiest putter to align at address. I agree.

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2 hours ago, MattUtah said:

Did you test CoG backwards vs more forwards? 
 

I would be especially interested in how this fares in mallets with similar MOI. One example being the Odyssey Marxman vs Ten (or TM Spider). Ten/Spider is back CoG, Marxman is much more forward and they have nearly equal MOI numbers I think.  Feels like the back CoG closes much slower and I wonder how detrimental that becomes over a certain range. Something to consider. Lots of companies trying to push CoG more forward now like Frontline, Spider FCG and Bettinardi 6.0. 
 

Cool test! 

I can look at the MOI on putters in the spreadsheet and compare the two and give you more info

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Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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12 hours ago, SnowmanShanks said:

hey and congrats. sorry about your blood pressure. 

 

I started this process to see the best putter for certain tendencies. 

 

If it helps a single person, I would be happy. For me its just a labor of passion and something to spend my time doing.

I love putter designs but it is more science than Art!

 

 

I appreciate you effort and thought into this. In my case 2021 will a sad year. It will be the first time in fifty years I won't believe on  New Years day that I am capable of winning a golf tournament this year. All I need is mediocre putting and it isn't there.

Driver Titleist TS3 10.5 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

3 Wood Titleist 913 15 Diamana ilima 60 stiff

5 Wood Titleist 913 19 Diamana ilima 70 stiff

Irons 3-PW Tommy Amour Silverback 845C Dynalite Gold stiff

Gap wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 52 Dynalite Gold stiff

Lob wedge Titleist Vokey Tenth Anniversary 58 Dynalite Gold stiff

Putter Wilson 8813 oil can finish

 

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So first off I’ve never been fit for a putter. I don’t like to switch putters generally, but my gamer was a Odyssey Double Wide slant/flow neck. Then I thought I would try the Spider X with same style neck....hated it. June

of last year as a gift I got my first Bettinardi Queen B6. I’m hooked on the feel and touch I get with a milled putter. I put decent with it, but I found a Bettinardi Queen B 9 with the neck I’m use to with that mid mallet look that I am very drawn to. My question is why am I more comfortable with that slant/flow neck? Why am I so drawn to a mid mallet do you think. 
I am RH, Left eye dominant carry a 7 handicap. If any of this helps lol

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SnowmanShanks,

I'm very interested in this thread and appreciate all your efforts and willingness to share! Just another reason why GolfWRX is the best golf site on the interwebs!

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52 minutes ago, Joe Jordan said:

So first off I’ve never been fit for a putter. I don’t like to switch putters generally, but my gamer was a Odyssey Double Wide slant/flow neck. Then I thought I would try the Spider X with same style neck....hated it. June

of last year as a gift I got my first Bettinardi Queen B6. I’m hooked on the feel and touch I get with a milled putter. I put decent with it, but I found a Bettinardi Queen B 9 with the neck I’m use to with that mid mallet look that I am very drawn to. My question is why am I more comfortable with that slant/flow neck? Why am I so drawn to a mid mallet do you think. 
I am RH, Left eye dominant carry a 7 handicap. If any of this helps lol

what was your miss tendency?

close rates differ with each putter. weight. cog. toe flow. ...

different necks and cog placement and alignment cause different thing for your subconscious.

maybe you didn't like the feel from the insert of the TM. Tm uses KBS shafts which are more stout in stock form.

I cannot comment on why one is different from the other for your aim bias without knowing your miss tendencies.

I do not like the queen B with the asymmetrical bumpers. It seems like a manufactured way to slow closer rates.

but everyone is different

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

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Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Thanks for sharing. I guess I was lucky in selecting a flow neck 22 years ago. The SAM Lab confirmed a few years ago it's the right one for me.

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Bettinardi TOUR DASS MiNoVai 3.0 Flowneck 34/350

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3 hours ago, SnowmanShanks said:

what was your miss tendency?

close rates differ with each putter. weight. cog. toe flow. ...

different necks and cog placement and alignment cause different thing for your subconscious.

maybe you didn't like the feel from the insert of the TM. Tm uses KBS shafts which are more stout in stock form.

I cannot comment on why one is different from the other for your aim bias without knowing your miss tendencies.

I do not like the queen B with the asymmetrical bumpers. It seems like a manufactured way to slow closer rates.

but everyone is different

Sorry about that, your correct the Spider just did not feel well over all for me. My miss with the current Bettinardi QB 6 is left, it is faced balanced. Which is why I wanted to try the QB 9 with flow neck and mid mallet that I am always drawn to.

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2 hours ago, Joe Jordan said:

Sorry about that, your correct the Spider just did not feel well over all for me. My miss with the current Bettinardi QB 6 is left, it is faced balanced. Which is why I wanted to try the QB 9 with flow neck and mid mallet that I am always drawn to.

if your miss is left, I am assuming the hook side. It could be the result of either aim bias or dynamic delivery faults.

If your miss is on the hook side you likely need more weight. or a longer flange line.

or a rounded back mallet with multiple lines. could be a swing weight problem.

I would also try a more toe flow putter just to slow it down as I have seen some strokes become resolved this way.

 

I am not a fitter. But I have seen alot of things lately.

Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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On 12/22/2020 at 9:30 PM, shart6 said:

Would any those factors be:

Practicing using a chalk line

Putting under pencils connected by string

Long sessions with a Teacher Putter 

A lifelong focus on solid contact (Paul Runyan disciple)

 

I putted exceptionally well with Wilson 8802s, Ansers and A-Blades (plumbers neck) through my late forties about 31 years. In my early fifties I switched to a Gauge Design M3 shorter and heavier than my blades. It is a face balanced, high moment of inertia, big mallet putter. And I putted well. Now my putting is terrible because my blood pressure medications mess up my feel.

 

I don't think I could have won nine tournaments over the years if didn't aim reasonably well.

one may overcome any natural flaw or tendency with enough practice.

 

hey man I shoot in the 60s all the time but I cant hit a low draw. go figure

Edited by SnowmanShanks
Spoiler

hit the BX-S from the wrong side... 

TM SIM2 9 KuroKage XT-60TX Tip 1"

TM SIM 3w Fujikura Pro2.0 T-Spec 70X Tip .5"

Sxrn zx 2 Iron AD DI 95X Driving iron Iron Spec .370

Mz 921 Tour SEL 4-Pw DGX100TI 130g

Vky sm8 RAW DGS400TI 130g: 50.08F - 54.10S @55 - WW 60.06K LB

Piretti C.WOOD II Trisole 365gm Sandblasted white line OZIK LA 135 Lamkin Cord 33.85"

SC NP T.Rat Black Naked 360gm SC pstlero 33.85'"rotating + way too many more putters

Carbon Bag - +2 bottom hand MCC grips - Cobra Kicks

 

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Go figure is right. My dad had a non offset Tommy Armour and a Bullseye. Neither worked when I started playing golf at age 15. The pro handed me a putter out of the rental clubs, a Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer an offset blade. I used it until my caddy cut her finger on the chrome and I replaced it with an 8802 I used for seventeen years.

 

 

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Any plans on a years long study on putter characteristics that effect speed control 🙂

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