I am ready for blades - where do I start?

[SnowmanShanks]

make sure you know what type of bounce angled you want. 

make sure you can blend acceptably with your wedges you are used too.

[SnowmanShanks]

2 hours ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

It’s your words exactly. Pinsized sweet spot in reality, but YES, I think we all mean the area on the clubface with no or negligible distance loss, when talking about „the sweet spot“. So no myth busting to see here, I was just being a little pedantic 🙄😁. @ephmen I’m sorry. I was triggered. 
 

However, Wishon has this PDF on his site somewhere (too lazy to dig it up), in which he addresses the common marketing tactics including loft jacking and fancy terminology, and how manufacturers are distorting the facts to boost their sales. It’s a good read. 
 

Regarding that elusive „blade feel“, I do think that happens only when you absolutely flush one, like no ball is even there, and that’s rare and hard to do consistently as an amateur.
 

To get back on topic: the modern blades like MP-20, P7TW and others have some hidden help, in fact, with tungsten parts in critical spots. Srixon Z Forged have the V sole. Those things do make a little difference. Even older designs cheat a little, with longer blade length (MP-33) and cut muscle design for a hint of perimeter weighting (MP-32).
@sonnygolf I’d start there: find out which sole fits you and if a longer blade is ok to look down at for you. 

 

Finally, my pick would either be MP-20 (keep hearing how easy to hit they’re) or W/S Staff Model (they look fantastic).

If going used: W/S FG-62, MP-4, MP-14, MP-33 all are great and proven designs. 

went from ap2 to mz sc to mp20 sel blades.

went from 7 hcp to 1.5 to 2.8.

i can absolutely contribute my hcp to iron play. easily went from a strength to a problem moving into butterknives. 

moved out of the blades, sure theyre easy to hit for a blade. 

[LeftyMatt24]

50 minutes ago, SnowmanShanks said:

went from ap2 to mz sc to mp20 sel blades.

went from 7 hcp to 1.5 to 2.8.

i can absolutely contribute my hcp to iron play. easily went from a strength to a problem moving into butterknives. 

moved out of the blades, sure theyre easy to hit for a blade. 

Do you have plans to go back into the Mizuno sc?

[Hawkeye77]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:59 PM, sonnygolf said:

Ready to join the best players in the game by using the best type of clubs in the game. 

 

 

But I don't "game" blades. 😉

[Stanks]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:59 PM, sonnygolf said:

Ready to join the best players in the game by using the best type of clubs in the game. 

 

Question whats a good set to start with? 

Your question is crap to start with in the sense that, blades / MBs are just that. No help. No friendship. You get out of them what you put into them. When you understand that, the preference really comes down to a few things including but not limited to:

- Size

- Length

- Looks

- Forgiveness (weighting / tungsten / offset) etc.

 

That being said, I'll just give you my Top 3.

1. Cobra MB 2016 Version (Black DBM Finish with orange accents)

2. Taylormade MB 2012 Version

3. Srixon Z-Forged (current gamer)

 

Be careful moving into these. Because you're gonna suck at some point and wanna go to GI irons and then hate the look and go back and suck and vicious cycle ensues. 

 

Pick a set. Enjoy. 

[Phabs]

Call mizuno... order a set of mp20’s with the shaft you prefer and be done with it. 

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, SnowmanShanks said:

went from ap2 to mz sc to mp20 sel blades.

went from 7 hcp to 1.5 to 2.8.

i can absolutely contribute my hcp to iron play. easily went from a strength to a problem moving into butterknives. 

moved out of the blades, sure theyre easy to hit for a blade. 

100% agree.  I was in a set of MP5 blades for a year and a half. Started struggling with slight misses that absolutely punished me.  Moved to a set of 919 tours and I’ve played my best golf since college.   

[FOOTJOY16]

9 hours ago, ephmen said:

Funny, been on golfwrx a long time. Are blade threads always this toxic? Will stay away from now on. 

They typically go sideways or off the rails at some point.. there is usually a 🍿 or two in the thread just for this reason.. 

[kstrong84]

You can start with my set of MP-5's...!

[PixlPutterman]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:19 AM, brew4eagle said:

Wilson Staff FG- 17, 51, 53, 59, 62...

This guy gets it

 

 

[hypergolf]

Mine have just arrived today!

Edited December 23, 2020 by hypergolf

[Tree Levino]

6 hours ago, hypergolf said:

Mine have just arrived today!

great sticks

[wakit300]

On 12/21/2020 at 6:52 AM, OsnolaKinnard said:

 

MacGregor VFoil 1025M.  Very good COG location, excellent sole design that is a bit more forgiving, and all in all a very easy to hit blade that still gives you excellent performance, and they feel incredible.  

 

 

Best set of blades I ever played ... BUT if you plan on playing in any club or local tournaments they are deemed non-conforming by the USGA.  Heartbreaking, as I had to move to another set when the ruling came down in 2010.

 

BTW, I'm one of the old school guys who think iron forgiveness is overrated.  Yeah, you get penalized for bad strikes but so what, learn to hit the middle and that doesn't matter.

There are plenty of good, inexpensive used sets of blades out there.  Hunt around and find something that looks good to your eye and give them a shot.  You'll be surprised how easy some of them are to hit.

[Fairway14]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:51 PM, Aviador Naval said:

A few non-ego reasons include:

 

1. you grew up with them and like the look/feel.

2. you have good speed and are a natural high ball hitter so typical GI causes as many problems as it solves

3. you play in dry, firm, tight conditions the vast majority of the time

4. you understand physics better than marketing and realize the degree of ‘forgiveness’ is much more relevant in a laboratory than a golf course

5.  you relish the journey more than the destination and would rather draw/fade/stinger the ball around for 78 than plug down the middle for 75

 

I agree with your points however my observation is that the significant factor is club head size. For example, I played a dozen rounds each with

Mizuno MP 4, MP5, MP69 (all muscle back blade designs) and a dozen rounds each with MP63 and MP15 (cavity back design). The only performance differences I observed were that the MP5 (significantly larger than the other five models) was more challenging to square at impact from less than ideal lies.

In other words, if head size is the same, such as are Titleist MB and Titleist CB irons, I doubt a player would notice any significant shot performances differences. It's when head size becomes larger I believe that negative shot performance results may emerge, particularly from sloped, hardpan ,grassy rough, or other less than ideal lies.

[pingpal6]

Maltby TS-1

[hypergolf]

3 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

great sticks

 

Yeah. I would describe it as dense yet soft and muted with the ball feeling heavy on the face when struck well. 

 

It is a unique feeling and completely different from my previous Mizzy's. Maybe I might be the odd one but I actually prefer the feel of Z Forged over Mizuno.

 

I also have a set of Z785 but Z Forged is a different forged feel even compared to that. Z Forged feels more solid (dense) whereas Z785 feels more hollow if I am describing it correctly. 

 

I regret not moving to blades sooner. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by hypergolf

[2over]

You are going down a good path! The feedback you get from a good blade will tell you how you really strike your irons. For example, you'll discover exactly where your low point is, where you strike the ball on the face and exactly how often you find the center. Your body will naturally process this and start to do what you did on the pure strikes more often. You may regress slightly on course for a while, but spend more time on the range and your ball striking and scoring will improve in about 6 months.

 

Any Mizuno blade is great. Titleist, Callaway's current blades are also very good, and I have hit them all (grew up with Hogan Apex red lines) but I've never found a blade as forgiving in all conditions as a Mizuno. I've never hit a blade that with matched lofts is longer either. A good combo. I played MP-14 for 10 years, MP-33 for 18, and now 2 years on my set of MP-18. The 18s are my favorites, but if you find a good used set of MP-33 jump all over those. Best bang for your buck. Just make sure you get shaft length, lofts, and lies checked and matched to your specs. I will say that I didn't care for the MP-5. Just too big and bulky. I think the MP-68 and 69 were underrated though.

 

Good luck and enjoy! It really is true "Nothing feels like a Mizuno"--so sweet!

Edited December 24, 2020 by 2over

[iNeedMoreGolf]

My highest recommendation would be mizuno mp 20 mmc as they are just as small as the mp 20 blade but more forgiving or the new mizuno jpx 921 tour which isnt blade but again just as small but more forgiving... brooks koepka uses the older version of this iron. Otherwise grab a butterknife out the draw tape it to a broom stick and start hackin... lol jk.

[aquapig]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:31 PM, ephmen said:

Serious question-why do people play blades besides ego? Some of the best ball strikers on tour play more forgiving clubs.  Plenty of more forgiving forged clubs with great feel, so I don't think feel is the answer. 

Annnnd so it starts..

[aquapig]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:59 AM, uglande said:

"Where do I start?"

 

The same place you'll finish: Mizuno MP-20.

 

Nothing feels better. Reasonably priced. Surprisingly forgiving. Great stock shaft options. Can easily blend with other MP irons. The MMC is fantastic if you want more forgiveness in the longer irons. 

And so it ends...

 

Shut it down.

[plim123]

My two cents: no one can tell you what to buy. Find/demo the ones that look and feel the best to you and have at it. The nuances in the blade market are just that... Nuances. And they will be extremely personal to you. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by plim123

[jacksongp22]

Just speaking from personal experience, ive had all kinds of blades and cavity backs both. My all time favorite was probably the Callaway Prototype (or Razr MB's) or Mizuno MP68's. 

[aquapig]

I can't stand when people say "buy what you want" or "people can't tell you what to buy"

 

I mean really??No kidding

 

But doesn't this forum exist mainly for opinions and to hear other's experiences with clubs???

 

If I ask about a certain club or type of clubs, that doesn't mean I'm going to run out and buy whatever the first person to post suggest. Rather, some folks would just like to maybe hear what people have enjoyed playing and why they've enjoyed playing them.

 

[revanant]

On 12/22/2020 at 8:11 PM, Stanks said:

Your question is crap to start with in the sense that, blades / MBs are just that. No help. No friendship. You get out of them what you put into them. When you understand that, the preference really comes down to a few things including but not limited to:

- Size

- Length

- Looks

- Forgiveness (weighting / tungsten / offset) etc.

 

That being said, I'll just give you my Top 3.

1. Cobra MB 2016 Version (Black DBM Finish with orange accents)

2. Taylormade MB 2012 Version

3. Srixon Z-Forged (current gamer)

 

Be careful moving into these. Because you're gonna suck at some point and wanna go to GI irons and then hate the look and go back and suck and vicious cycle ensues. 

 

Pick a set. Enjoy. 

So, oddly enough, you can kind of see feel preferences in what folks recommend. I'd put the Cobra MB and Z-forged among the firmest MB's I've struck on feel, and didn't care for them for that reason. But I'd agree that they're very similar in feel, so if you like one, makes sense that you'd like the other. 
 

Similarly, I preferred the 785 to the Z-forged, because it felt measurably softer in my hands and performed better. I just don't love the topline on it. But if you like a firmer feel, the z-forged would make more sense. 
 

Other blade irons on the harder scale that I've hit are the Macgregor Miurfield 20th Anniversary, the P7TW, and the Miura MB-001 and MC-501. 
 

My preference is for softer irons. I don't think it gets better than the '18 Callaway Apex MB or MP-4. The new Titleist 620 MB and CB are noticeably soft as well on good strikes. 
 

Right up there on feel are the Hogan Redlines and BH Grind--they have "illegal" grooves so they can't be used for tournament play, but I found they spin and launch like crazy and feel just like the 18 Apex MB.

 

On the help side, totally agreed that with a blade, you get exactly what you put in. I think it's a helpful feature and I like it. Others may not. Mark Crossfield did a recent comparison of the Mavrik against an old Top-Flite blade--long story short, he found the blade to be shorter but much more consistent in performance. It's an interesting watch. 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM

[Oliver Klozoff]

Snag yourself a set of 1979 titleist tour models, 1986 wilson staffs, 1993 hogan apex, or 2002 tm tour preferred mbs.  Each except the last gettable for under $300 online.  All just as good as any blade on the market today.  Hell, pair them up with some Powerbuilt persimmon woods and Sam Snead wedges and let us know how your experiment goes.

 

Look, I loved all the above when I had them.  Still have the Titleist tour models.  I hit them every so often.  The difference between them and even the smallest of cavity backs is huge.  Even bent to the same lofts, it's a 5-10 yard difference in distance and the toe miss is, uggh.

 

I'm not discouraging your desire to try it.  But don't expect to improve your game switching to less forgiving clubs.  I tried this a couple of years ago with some Mizzy MP-4s.  Sure, they feel a bit better.  They go a lot worse.

[Oliver Klozoff]

Just now, Oliver Klozoff said:

Snag yourself a set of 1979 titleist tour models, 1986 wilson staffs, 1993 hogan apex, or 2002 tm tour preferred mbs.  Each except the last gettable for under $300 online.  All just as good as any blade on the market today.  Hell, pair them up with some Powerbuilt persimmon woods and Sam Snead wedges and let us know how your experiment goes.

 

Look, I loved all the above when I had them.  Still have the Titleist tour models.  I hit them every so often.  The difference between them and even the smallest of cavity backs is huge.  Even bent to the same lofts, it's a 5-10 yard difference in distance and the toe miss is, uggh.

 

I'm not discouraging your desire to try it.  But don't expect to improve your game switching to less forgiving clubs.  I tried this a couple of years ago with some Mizzy MP-4s.  Sure, they feel a bit better.  but they are the same club as the ones 30 years older. 

 

[Oh Hi Carl]

Interesting that for all the attention Blueprints get, there are very few comments about them on this thread.  

[Oh Hi Carl]

10 hours ago, revanant said:

So, oddly enough, you can kind of see feel preferences in what folks recommend. I'd put the Cobra MB and Z-forged among the firmest MB's I've struck on feel, and didn't care for them for that reason. But I'd agree that they're very similar in feel, so if you like one, makes sense that you'd like the other. 
 

Similarly, I preferred the 785 to the Z-forged, because it felt measurably softer in my hands and performed better. I just don't love the topline on it. But if you like a firmer feel, the z-forged would make more sense. 
 

Other blade irons on the harder scale that I've hit are the Macgregor Miurfield 20th Anniversary, the P7TW, and the Miura MB-001 and MC-501. 
 

My preference is for softer irons. I don't think it gets better than the '18 Callaway Apex MB or MP-4. The new Titleist 620 MB and CB are noticeably soft as well on good strikes. 
 

Right up there on feel are the Hogan Redlines and BH Grind--they have "illegal" grooves so they can't be used for tournament play, but I found they spin and launch like crazy and feel just like the 18 Apex MB.

 

On the help side, totally agreed that with a blade, you get exactly what you put in. I think it's a helpful feature and I like it. Others may not. Mark Crossfield did a recent comparison of the Mavrik against an old Top-Flite blade--long story short, he found the blade to be shorter but much more consistent in performance. It's an interesting watch. 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIR2oCRWYM

The Crossfield video is interesting.  My take was that he found the 80s blade to actually perform better than the Maverick in virtually every category except that the Maverick flew slightly higher.  The test was with Crossfield hitting every shot.  He's a scratch player.  I wonder how the results would differ with a 5 or 10 cap hitting the shots.  

[Golf Puff]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:49 PM, 2over said:

You are going down a good path! The feedback you get from a good blade will tell you how you really strike your irons. For example, you'll discover exactly where your low point is, where you strike the ball on the face and exactly how often you find the center. Your body will naturally process this and start to do what you did on the pure strikes more often. You may regress slightly on course for a while, but spend more time on the range and your ball striking and scoring will improve in about 6 months.

I used to provide this advice to the few young golfers who wanted to see how good they could be.  Not everyone wants to practice and try to hit different shot shapes, but if you want to be truly successful, you need more than one stock shot.  I had '88 Hogans (first model with 'square grooves') on order and borrowed my HP's set of PCs for a day.  Couldn't wait to give them back, and I was a bit concerned with thoughts of "What did I get myself into?"  They were fine, though, with the exception that they beat the cover of the balata balls something fierce.  I watched a ball literally knuckle in the air and wondered what was happening, and when I checked the ball closely, I had groove marks on 4 areas of the ball, affecting the aero severely.  Coupled with never really knowing if a chip/short pitch would spin hard or release, I had to give them up and went to '90 Hogans (V grooves) which I played for many years.  

 

Went to work for a manufacturer, so those had to be sidelined for a while, and eventually, when I left that manufacturer, I tried a bunch of different things before '05 when a set of '03 Hogans (double muscles) was offered to me.  First time I tried them, I was looking at a recovery from the rough with a tree 15' in front of me.  Tree had a notch where the trunk split, so the thought was, "How good am I, and how good are these?"  Hit the ball on the perfect trajectory to fly through the window, and I was sold.  People asked why I didn't play some type of GI iron, and my answer was, "When the shot comes off as I envision, it will be because of me, not the clubhead."  It wasn't always about the score as much as the personal challenge!

 

Went away from the Hogans 6 or 7 years ago as I wanted to find something more forgiving.  Aging, and shifting priorities that included less play and less practice, led me to Mizuno MP 64s with MP 53 4 and 5 iron.  OK irons but not the right shafts.  Then MP 15 with C Taper Lites that never really 'talked to me'.  

 

Next was 716 AP2 with NS Pro 105T, pretty decent but not ideal yet, so I now have T100 with the wrong shaft fit to me (DG 105 S300).  I'm thinking of practicing with the '03 Hogans for the winter (yeah, like I might ...) just to see what happens.

 

BTW, I find it interesting that Bernard Langer still uses Hogan Apex 4 shafts for his irons.

 

One last shaft thought - I tried Dynalite and Dynalite Gold when playing Apex 4 shafts.  They aren't the same.  Occasionally, I would feel a 'back kick' (best way to describe the feeling) even on a solid hit.  I NEVER felt that with Apex shafts.  I also have some old proprietary information on shaft frequencies that shows Apex 4 to be on a similar slope as DG S300 but softer (higher frequency), but the Apex shafts are definitely lighter than S200 and definitely lower kick point than DG as well.

[revanant]

2 hours ago, Golf Puff said:

I used to provide this advice to the few young golfers who wanted to see how good they could be.  Not everyone wants to practice and try to hit different shot shapes, but if you want to be truly successful, you need more than one stock shot.  I had '88 Hogans (first model with 'square grooves') on order and borrowed my HP's set of PCs for a day.  Couldn't wait to give them back, and I was a bit concerned with thoughts of "What did I get myself into?"  They were fine, though, with the exception that they beat the cover of the balata balls something fierce.  I watched a ball literally knuckle in the air and wondered what was happening, and when I checked the ball closely, I had groove marks on 4 areas of the ball, affecting the aero severely.  Coupled with never really knowing if a chip/short pitch would spin hard or release, I had to give them up and went to '90 Hogans (V grooves) which I played for many years.  

 

Went to work for a manufacturer, so those had to be sidelined for a while, and eventually, when I left that manufacturer, I tried a bunch of different things before '05 when a set of '03 Hogans (double muscles) was offered to me.  First time I tried them, I was looking at a recovery from the rough with a tree 15' in front of me.  Tree had a notch where the trunk split, so the thought was, "How good am I, and how good are these?"  Hit the ball on the perfect trajectory to fly through the window, and I was sold.  People asked why I didn't play some type of GI iron, and my answer was, "When the shot comes off as I envision, it will be because of me, not the clubhead."  It wasn't always about the score as much as the personal challenge!

 

Went away from the Hogans 6 or 7 years ago as I wanted to find something more forgiving.  Aging, and shifting priorities that included less play and less practice, led me to Mizuno MP 64s with MP 53 4 and 5 iron.  OK irons but not the right shafts.  Then MP 15 with C Taper Lites that never really 'talked to me'.  

 

Next was 716 AP2 with NS Pro 105T, pretty decent but not ideal yet, so I now have T100 with the wrong shaft fit to me (DG 105 S300).  I'm thinking of practicing with the '03 Hogans for the winter (yeah, like I might ...) just to see what happens.

 

BTW, I find it interesting that Bernard Langer still uses Hogan Apex 4 shafts for his irons.

 

One last shaft thought - I tried Dynalite and Dynalite Gold when playing Apex 4 shafts.  They aren't the same.  Occasionally, I would feel a 'back kick' (best way to describe the feeling) even on a solid hit.  I NEVER felt that with Apex shafts.  I also have some old proprietary information on shaft frequencies that shows Apex 4 to be on a similar slope as DG S300 but softer (higher frequency), but the Apex shafts are definitely lighter than S200 and definitely lower kick point than DG as well.

I love my '88 redlines and BH Grinds. There might not be a better club out there for aesthetics and feel, and I especially love the spin and launch I get out of the older groove patterns. 

 

Shaft-wise, what would you recommend as a replacement for the Apex 4?  

 

I've settled on the Modus 120 Stiff as the closest I can get to a modern version, but curious to hear your thoughts. 🙂