Best of the Stainless Woods

[Soloman1]

3 hours ago, BIG STU said:

My first metal was a Founders Judge small head with a X-1000 steel shaft. I could pound that thing.

 

 

X-1000?

You're a beast, STU!

 

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

X-1000?

You're a beast, STU!

 

No I used to be--- Now senior flex graphite

[dlygrisse]

14 hours ago, Foozle said:

Great and very informative post! Thanks!

I am particularly taken with the TM comments. I believe I own all the "dimple" variants. Tour Driver missing from pictures as it lives in my locker at my club for winter use and not currently accessible due to Covid-19.  Despite owning all these I have never studied and compared the head shapes or position at address.

Tour Spoon is probably my favourite. Currently enjoying returning to the Burner + I played from about 1990 - 1996. Playing for the winter whilst my persimmons hibernate.

I had similar problems trying to hit the Tour Burner other than that I smothered low and left! 😱

Where are your Raylors?  Haha these bring back memories. There was a point in time if you had 3 of these and some becu Eye 2’s and a Anser putter you were a cutting edge badass. I remember paying $75 for a steel shafted driver, and having to pay extra for the headcover. It seemed like a LOT of money at the time. 

 

 

 

[Foozle]

8 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Where are your Raylors?  Haha these bring back memories. There was a point in time if you had 3 of these and some becu Eye 2’s and a Anser putter you were a cutting edge badass. I remember paying $75 for a steel shafted driver, and having to pay extra for the headcover. It seemed like a LOT of money at the time. 

 

 

 

Good point! I forgot the Raylors were dimpled! Guess I don't have all the dimpled variants after all!

I have never had a Raylor. I play firm links fairways and in my mind always thought the sole ridges might promote a thin strike. Nonsense I know but the mind does funny things in golf! I know a lot of people swear by them.

I recall these were expensive in the day. My point of reference is I know for fact I paid £50 for a MacGregor EOM  persimmon in 1985. My memory is the TM Burners came out perhaps a couple of years later and cost perhaps £70 each? Maybe those were the ones with Boron shafts?

[dlygrisse]

6 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Good point! I forgot the Raylors were dimpled! Guess I don't have all the dimpled variants after all!

I have never had a Raylor. I play firm links fairways and in my mind always thought the sole ridges might promote a thin strike. Nonsense I know but the mind does funny things in golf! I know a lot of people swear by them.

I recall these were expensive in the day. My point of reference is I know for fact I paid £50 for a MacGregor EOM  persimmon in 1985. My memory is the TM Burners came out perhaps a couple of years later and cost perhaps £70 each? Maybe those were the ones with Boron shafts?

If I recall correctly, the DG ones were $75 and the gold boron shaft was $50 more. So $125 for pretty much the state of the art driver. Times have changed. 😉
 

not sure on the exchange rate back the , but I went to London in the late ‘80’s and it was about $1.50 per pound. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by dlygrisse

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

3 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

If I recall correctly, the DG ones were $75 and the gold boron shaft was $50 more. So $125 for pretty much the state of the art driver. Times have changed. 😉
 

not sure on the exchange rate back the , but I went to London in the late ‘80’s and it was about $1.50 per pound. 

 

I vaguely recall paying £80 for my TM Burner with the Tour Gold shaft, and that was second hand. Or did I pay £80 for my second hand Titleist Tour Model irons?? I remember paying £80 for something golf-related back then...🥴

[EmperorPenguin]

Here are pictures of my Tour Cleek 19.  Through the years I polished away the gray finish on the crown.  However, this will best illustrate how the club sets up.  I prefer much more this club than the standard Burner 4 wood.  Tour Cleek was also available in 24 degrees, if memory serves me right, but I never bought it because the 19-degree cleek was all I needed.

 

Cleek is indeed the correct name.  Traditionally, the cleek's specs make it a 4 wood.

 

It is so hard to explain in words.  Go out there and pick one up for yourself.  You will fall in love with how it sets up.

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by EmperorPenguin

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Here are pictures of my Tour Cleek 19.  Through the years I polished away the gray finish on the crown.  However, this will best illustrate how the club sets up.  I prefer much more this club than the standard Burner 4 wood.  Tour Cleek was also available in 24 degrees, if memory serves me right, but I never bought it because the 19-degree cleek was all I needed.

 

Cleek is indeed the correct name.  Traditionally, the cleek's specs make it a 4 wood.

 

It is so hard to explain in words.  Go out there and pick one up for yourself.  You will fall in love with how it sets up.

 

No point in wasting anytime....jumped on one on the "bay". Xmas present to myself!

Winter fairways is a 18* TM Burner 4 wood so interesting comparison.

[dcopp7]

I had a 19° Cleek bagged for a good long while.  It hit some outstanding shots for sure.  Great club.

[EmperorPenguin]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

No point in wasting anytime....jumped on one on the "bay". Xmas present to myself!

Winter fairways is a 18* TM Burner 4 wood so interesting comparison.

Glad you picked one up.  I personally guarantee you will fall in love with this club like I did.  When you get it, come back to this thread and post your initial impressions of it.  I cannot explain why, but the shape of the club intuitively clicks with the mind when you set up to the ball and when you swing it it feels so damn good.  This club was way ahead of its time.  When I play golf with it, whenever kids ask me what kind of hybrid it is, I invariably answer, "Hybrid?!  No, buddy, this is the the original Tour Cleek from way before you were born."  I usually offer kids with good swings a free shot at it, and they fall in love with the club too.

 

I remember a few years ago TaylorMade released a hybrid that was copied after the Tour Cleek.  I met the TaylorMade rep and when I was waggling the club I looked at the head, looked at him and said, "Hey, this is the Tour Cleek!" He smiled and nodded.  I did not buy because it was merely a white head shaped like a Cleek and with a graphite shaft.  I have the two of the original Tour Cleeks and didn't need to buy.

[EmperorPenguin]

I forgot to post here pictures of what I consider one of the best 3 woods in the 1990's.  As stated earlier, my favorite TaylorMade woods were the Burner 3 wood 15 and the Tour Spoon.  For Titleist, they released their version of those popular woods, and for the more discerning player they offered some with bore-thru hosels.  If you happen to see one for sale with the shaft you like, jump on it!  Titleist's imitation of the Burner 3 wood was so good you are tempted to say it is better, but out of respect for TaylorMade you would be silent about it.  Quite honestly, I love them both equally.

 

[Nard_S]

I'm fond of the TM Burner's and King Cobra DF. Still have a mint set of the latter and will use the #5W. Has an Apollo shaft that's pretty awesome. The thing keeps up with Ti/graphite siblings all too well. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Nard_S

[EmperorPenguin]

I would like to juxtapose the Burner 4 wood with the Cleek.  The Burner is 18 degrees and the Cleek 19.  They are both great clubs and I have hit great shots with both of them, but when it comes to cosmetics, the Cleek is prettier.  The crown on the Burner is flatter, while that of the Cleek is bulkier and domed.  The Burner sets up like an orange slice and the Cleek sets up more like an real man's club.  The Cleek has that extra degree of loft that will give me that little extra help when playing out of the rough, though I cannot attest if the rails at the bottom help; maybe they do, maybe not, but they certainly don't hurt.  Both clubs I hit reliably somewhere from 200 yards to 210 yards.

 

On a side note, when TaylorMade released the Raylors, all they did was take the shallow-crowned Burner 4 wood and put rails on the sole.  I didn't care so much for the Raylors.

 

For those of you who are persimmon experts, I ask: any idea which club Gary Adams modeled the Cleek after?

 

[dcopp7]

Cobra Baffler comes to mind but they were laminate not persimmon

[NRJyzr]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as "best" but they're certainly legendary....   the J's Professional Weapon driver and fairways.  Because I came to the party relatively late, I didn't get to experience the J's clubs in their time, have no idea how well the fairways were regarded relative to the driver.  

 

I've played the fairway wood a few times, find it rather interesting.  I didn't hit it enough to get a feel for how long it might be, but I was quite pleased with its accuracy.

 

As others have mentioned about the early stainless drivers, not the largest head I've ever played.  It's kind of funny hitting something that's even smaller than the persimmons in my collection.  🙂

 

I've also got a rather lovely Founders 3w.  Came with DGS shaft, which I'd expected would be soft, but I'd forgotten to account for the change in the Dynamic wood shafts tipping in the 90s; this was pre-change.  When I center this club, it's just stupid long, cartoonishly long.  It's unreal.  Miss the center, and you get a healthy dropoff.  I haven't played it in a while, have no idea how it would work for me in the age-dropoff world I live in.  

 

Should take all of these out for some fun during 2021.  😊💪

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by NRJyzr

[Divot License]

On 12/25/2020 at 4:33 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

I forgot to post here pictures of what I consider one of the best 3 woods in the 1990's.  As stated earlier, my favorite TaylorMade woods were the Burner 3 wood 15 and the Tour Spoon.  For Titleist, they released their version of those popular woods, and for the more discerning player they offered some with bore-thru hosels.  If you happen to see one for sale with the shaft you like, jump on it!  Titleist's imitation of the Burner 3 wood was so good you are tempted to say it is better, but out of respect for TaylorMade you would be silent about it.  Quite honestly, I love them both equally.

 

I had completely forgot about the PT fairway wood, thanks for the reminder @EmperorPenguin

 

This was such a beautiful club behind the ball and sat wonderfully. I started playing during the rise of the 975F so there were a lot of these going around second hand and being the cute innocent junior of a small club I got a lot offered to me. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

21 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I'm not sure if this qualifies as "best" but they're certainly legendary....   the J's Professional Weapon driver and fairways.  Because I came to the party relatively late, I didn't get to experience the J's clubs in their time, have no idea how well the fairways were regarded relative to the driver.  

 

I've played the fairway wood a few times, find it rather interesting.  I didn't hit it enough to get a feel for how long it might be, but I was quite pleased with its accuracy.

 

As others have mentioned about the early stainless drivers, not the largest head I've ever played.  It's kind of funny hitting something that's even smaller than the persimmons in my collection.  🙂

 

I've also got a rather lovely Founders 3w.  Came with DGS shaft, which I'd expected would be soft, but I'd forgotten to account for the change in the Dynamic wood shafts tipping in the 90s; this was pre-change.  When I center this club, it's just stupid long, cartoonishly long.  It's unreal.  Miss the center, and you get a healthy dropoff.  I haven't played it in a while, have no idea how it would work for me in the age-dropoff world I live in.  

 

Should take all of these out for some fun during 2021.  😊💪

 

 

Wasn't the J's Professional Weapon basically similar to the thinking behind the much later TM SLDR, in that it had lots of weight forward (sorry, I forget the technical term. CoG? Moi? TLA?), which made it very unforgiving and low spin, but if you had the swing speed and ability, you could hit it a mile?

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Wasn't the J's Professional Weapon basically similar to the thinking behind the much later TM SLDR, in that it had lots of weight forward (sorry, I forget the technical term. CoG? Moi? TLA?), which made it very unforgiving and low spin, but if you had the swing speed and ability, you could hit it a mile?

 

For years, people thought it was an illegal club, because the big hitters blasted it.  But it appears it was merely the first super low spin driver.

 

I don't think club manufacturers were aware of "forward CG to reduce spin", but the J's appears to have been engineered to hit the ball low.  And it definitely reduced spin.  Remember seeing a launch monitor comparison between the Precept 260LS and the J's, it showed a healthy gap in spin between the two.

 

A fellow WRX member has said part of the secret may have been the crown (someone cut one in half), it was much thicker than normal, raising the CG.  Ironically, we know now that a higher CG won't reduce spin, but in creating the clubhead, they must have moved the CG a bit more forward, which *does* reduce spin.

 

Jumbo Ozaki was quoted saying it was made of something very much like steel, but wouldn't say more.  He apparently also felt the shaft was a big part of the results.

 

The story I found on the intarwebs mentions Jack Nicklaus, Ray Floyd, and Jumbo Ozaki all talking about how well their tee shots do in the wind with the J's.  A sure sign of spin reduction.

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

7 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

For years, people thought it was an illegal club, because the big hitters blasted it.  But it appears it was merely the first super low spin driver.

 

I don't think club manufacturers were aware of "forward CG to reduce spin", but the J's appears to have been engineered to hit the ball low.  And it definitely reduced spin.  Remember seeing a launch monitor comparison between the Precept 260LS and the J's, it showed a healthy gap in spin between the two.

 

A fellow WRX member has said part of the secret may have been the crown (someone cut one in half), it was much thicker than normal, raising the CG.  Ironically, we know now that a higher CG won't reduce spin, but in creating the clubhead, they must have moved the CG a bit more forward, which *does* reduce spin.

 

Jumbo Ozaki was quoted saying it was made of something very much like steel, but wouldn't say more.  He apparently also felt the shaft was a big part of the results.

 

The story I found on the intarwebs mentions Jack Nicklaus, Ray Floyd, and Jumbo Ozaki all talking about how well their tee shots do in the wind with the J's.  A sure sign of spin reduction.

 

 Now that's an interesting answer. And as you say at the end, the difference in performance in the wind definitely suggests low spin. 

[NRJyzr]

9 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 Now that's an interesting answer. And as you say at the end, the difference in performance in the wind definitely suggests low spin. 

 

When I put this together with a 100g SK Fiber shaft, I let the then assistant pro at my course hit it.  He had a bit of junk in the trunk, so to speak, played the King LTD Pro driver at the time.  He hit three straight line drives over the fence at the back of the range, which was a decent (but not obscene) poke.  Pronounced it as an interesting club.  LOL

 

I should have a J's fest on the course in 2021.  🙂

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by NRJyzr

[Soloman1]

We had a discussion here about the J's driver in 2013.

Now, we're recycling our stories like old geezers...

 

Ha! 🙂

[Woodridge]

I had the Taylormade Original 1, but went back to playing a MacGregor Ben Hogan 2 wood that I loved. For me, The Founders Club 'The Judge' was the first great metal driver. I bought it at a store called Kokesh for $9.99. It was either a demo or a close-out as it was in a barrel by the check-out. 

[NRJyzr]

A Cobra Deep Face clubhead arrived this week.  Actually in rather nice condition, also, which is a bonus.  Now just planning on what to use as a shaft and I'll have it ready for the new season.

 

Looking forward to it.  I find I get as much nostalgia playing the stainless and smaller Ti drivers as I do the persimmons and laminates.  Great fun.

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by NRJyzr

[dcopp7]

I have a recent thread where I recreated a Cobra Deep face into a bore through like Tiger used in 97 Masters

[nitram]

This thread has really taken me back to a great time for me personally and golf. In the Spring of '90 I switched from a Tour Burner to a J's PW Driver. I saw Kevin Wentworth (Okla. State All-American golfer) hitting one and it was amazing. I'd never heard of Bridgestone golf before. Anyway, after scouring the country I was able to get one (11 degree) about a month later. The only thing that separated it (to me) was the low and at times knuckling ball flight. A good drive rarely cleared tree top height and I've had several tee balls roll 70 yards on a flat fairway. I never knew what the shaft was and quite frankly didn't care. It just worked. I bagged it for 6 years before replacing it with a Mizuno T-Zoid and a Fuji Speeder 757. That 6 years is the longest I've bagged a driver in 40 years of golf.

[gurngunja]

My two favourite 3 woods from the stainless era:

 

 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Posted earlier were images of graphite drivers as persimmon substitutes/ replacements. The Wilson Whale with the Firestick shaft came close to iconic status.