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51 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

At the risk of derailing the thread, why "speed" and "accuracy" are either-or? I understand they are in an inverse relationship. The faster you swing, the less accurate you are. I got this. 

 

However, is there a set of instructions/practices that will improve speed but hurt accuracy. And a different set of instructions/practices that will improve accuracy at the expense of not adding speed?

 

I always (maybe incorrectly) thought that 1) you need to have good technique; 2) swing as fast as you can; 3) Maybe hold some in reserve during tournaments for accuracy. 

 

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All of you golf dads are really something, no one cares at this point if your kid is better than Charlie, it was fun watching Tiger play with his son, just because he is Tiger.  That being said, it wi

I get why everyone likes comparing Charlie to his dad but let’s get honest, he didn’t get everything from his dad. Example... I’ve heard his favorite club is a 9 iron. He definitely got that from his

Yep, and this is so weird and just happened to notice a thread got started here and hoped it was a positive one.  Had a nice thread about the PNC and Charlie and Tiger going for a few days in Tour Tal

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51 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

At the risk of derailing the thread, why "speed" and "accuracy" are either-or?

 

A focus on "speed" is wrong thinking and not at all necessary. Highly skilled players, such as on Tour, as youngsters learn and practice sound fundamental technique (grip-posture-alignment). Once that proper foundation is set the swing naturally becomes effective, ball striking becomes consistently solid, and the golf shots have impressive distance and accuracy.

In other words, with proper fundamental technique swing speed and accuracy naturally happen. A good example of this process is the young LPGA players from Korea, who are taught as youngsters sound fundamental technique. This is the path Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods followed as well.

Thinking about "speed" and, or, "swinging as hard as one can" is strictly an amateur focus and, or, something  taught by incompetent instructors.

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52 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

A focus on "speed" is wrong thinking and not at all necessary. Highly skilled players, such as on Tour, as youngsters learn and practice sound fundamental technique (grip-posture-alignment). Once that proper foundation is set the swing naturally becomes effective, ball striking becomes consistently solid, and the golf shots have impressive distance and accuracy.

In other words, with proper fundamental technique swing speed and accuracy naturally happen. A good example of this process is the young LPGA players from Korea, who are taught as youngsters sound fundamental technique. This is the path Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods followed as well.

Thinking about "speed" and, or, "swinging as hard as one can" is strictly an amateur focus and, or, something  taught by incompetent instructors.

The guys from Titleist Performance Institute and countless of other top instructors would disagree with you. The old way of teaching fundamentals has gone extinct with the dodo bird. 

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13 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

A focus on "speed" is wrong thinking and not at all necessary. Highly skilled players, such as on Tour, as youngsters learn and practice sound fundamental technique (grip-posture-alignment). Once that proper foundation is set the swing naturally becomes effective, ball striking becomes consistently solid, and the golf shots have impressive distance and accuracy.

In other words, with proper fundamental technique swing speed and accuracy naturally happen. A good example of this process is the young LPGA players from Korea, who are taught as youngsters sound fundamental technique. This is the path Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods followed as well.

Thinking about "speed" and, or, "swinging as hard as one can" is strictly an amateur focus and, or, something  taught by incompetent instructors.

 

Here's some more for you from Luke Kerr-Dineen.

 

9 things I wish I knew when I was a junior golfer (take note, parents)

 

Two steps you want to focus on from this article are step one: Build speed early and step four: Don't get too technical.  

 

 

 

 

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It was fun to watch. Kid has a good swing. It’s just meant to be a fun parent-child event lol. Golf media obviously hyped it and Charlie up way too much but that’s their job! Is he the best 11 year old ever? No. Do we need to constantly remind everyone in this thread that your child is better, would “beat him like a drum”, and that he is average at best in South Florida? No. You guys sound just like the golf media talking about the kids game, except it just comes off as jealously that he gets the coverage and your kid doesn’t. Who cares who is better than who at 11-12-13 years old. Come talk when they are 18+

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20 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Here's some more for you from Luke Kerr-Dineen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luke Kerr-Dineen ?Please.

Most all Tour pros and, or club pros, if their child has an interest to become a skilled player, teaches the child fundamentally sound technique.

When their child expresses an interest to pursue  a particular sport, this is true of  football, baseball, basketball coaches as well.

Professionals in every sport/game know there is any easy way to do it (using fundamentally sound technique) and a hard way (using unorthodox technique). Obviously, parents who are professional players or coaches themselves will teach their own kids fundamentally sound technique.

For golf, any person characterizing "speed" as some sort of factor separate from fundamentally sound technique does not know what he/she is talking about, is faking it, and  should be ignored. 

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18 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

All of you golf dads are really something, no one cares at this point if your kid is better than Charlie, it was fun watching Tiger play with his son, just because he is Tiger.  That being said, it will be several years before we know if your children, or children of your friends, or if CW is going to be a world class player, success or the lack of domination really don't mean a lot till they are in their 20's.  Lots of great juniors burned out or were injured  before they cashed in.  I'd keep putting money in the 401K if I were you.  

 

This junior golf thing seems like the worst thing to ever happen to kids playing golf, just by listening to the parents.  

 

It all comes down to "want to" in the end, TW was great because he had talent and he wanted it more than anyone, he worked his butt off and was hyper focused, because he wanted to be.  

This guy probably also enjoys watching celebrity pro ams. 

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1 hour ago, golfer929 said:

It was fun to watch. Kid has a good swing. It’s just meant to be a fun parent-child event lol. Golf media obviously hyped it and Charlie up way too much but that’s their job! Is he the best 11 year old ever? No. Do we need to constantly remind everyone in this thread that your child is better, would “beat him like a drum”, and that he is average at best in South Florida? No. You guys sound just like the golf media talking about the kids game, except it just comes off as jealously that he gets the coverage and your kid doesn’t. Who cares who is better than who at 11-12-13 years old. Come talk when they are 18+

Meh. A lot of the better kids I played competitive junior golf with as a 11, 12, 13 year old were still the better players at 18. 

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16 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

A focus on "speed" is wrong thinking and not at all necessary. Highly skilled players, such as on Tour, as youngsters learn and practice sound fundamental technique (grip-posture-alignment). Once that proper foundation is set the swing naturally becomes effective, ball striking becomes consistently solid, and the golf shots have impressive distance and accuracy.

In other words, with proper fundamental technique swing speed and accuracy naturally happen. A good example of this process is the young LPGA players from Korea, who are taught as youngsters sound fundamental technique. This is the path Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods followed as well.

Thinking about "speed" and, or, "swinging as hard as one can" is strictly an amateur focus and, or, something  taught by incompetent instructors.

100% disagree with this philosophy.

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2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke Kerr-Dineen ?Please.

Most all Tour pros and, or club pros, if their child has an interest to become a skilled player, teaches the child fundamentally sound technique.

When their child expresses an interest to pursue  a particular sport, this is true of  football, baseball, basketball coaches as well.

Professionals in every sport/game know there is any easy way to do it (using fundamentally sound technique) and a hard way (using unorthodox technique). Obviously, parents who are professional players or coaches themselves will teach their own kids fundamentally sound technique.

For golf, any person characterizing "speed" as some sort of factor separate from fundamentally sound technique does not know what he/she is talking about, is faking it, and  should be ignored. 

 

Handicap is directly correlated to distance, not fundamentals.  While good fundamentals is crucial, the new way of teaching is a junior from ground up is speed first then accuracy.  TPI and Most Good Directors of Instruction in junior golf will agree.  Swing hard first then learn how to be accurate.

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2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke Kerr-Dineen ?Please.

Most all Tour pros and, or club pros, if their child has an interest to become a skilled player, teaches the child fundamentally sound technique.

When their child expresses an interest to pursue  a particular sport, this is true of  football, baseball, basketball coaches as well.

Professionals in every sport/game know there is any easy way to do it (using fundamentally sound technique) and a hard way (using unorthodox technique). Obviously, parents who are professional players or coaches themselves will teach their own kids fundamentally sound technique.

For golf, any person characterizing "speed" as some sort of factor separate from fundamentally sound technique does not know what he/she is talking about, is faking it, and  should be ignored. 

 

Golf is a strange sport The concepts that are taught today would have been considered unorthodox and most people would have laughed at the person teaching it before the players won with these ideas.

 

The thing is when a top player comes along like Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and recently Tiger everyone thinks that is the way to teach and play golf from now on.

 

The truth is it is all over the map you do what works for you. 

 

 No one wants to hear this but the reason players like Tiger did so well is they did what worked for them.  .   Heck if happy gilmore was a real player we all be getting instruction at running at the ball on the tee. 

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2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke Kerr-Dineen ?Please.

Most all Tour pros and, or club pros, if their child has an interest to become a skilled player, teaches the child fundamentally sound technique.

When their child expresses an interest to pursue  a particular sport, this is true of  football, baseball, basketball coaches as well.

Professionals in every sport/game know there is any easy way to do it (using fundamentally sound technique) and a hard way (using unorthodox technique). Obviously, parents who are professional players or coaches themselves will teach their own kids fundamentally sound technique.

For golf, any person characterizing "speed" as some sort of factor separate from fundamentally sound technique does not know what he/she is talking about, is faking it, and  should be ignored. 

To quote a handful of golfers.  Easier to hit a green with a LW then a 6 iron.  You can be in the fairway all day.  If you're 100 yards behind I don't care.

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This is an extreme example, however there is a lot of good points in it. 
 

A) Not everyone can generate speed in the same way. Peoples bodies are different and that requires a difference in technique or fundamentals. 
 

B) Speed, in any sport, isn’t something you can teach. Forcing yourself into some sort of cookie cutter technique is going to limit the speed you’re able to make. 
 

Those points being made you have assume there is some sort of ability or semblance of something that resembles a “good” golf swing. Obviously someone who is swinging for the first time needs to understand some level of fundamentals and what it’s supposed to look and feel like, but once you get to that cusp speed first, straight later. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke Kerr-Dineen ?Please.

Most all Tour pros and, or club pros, if their child has an interest to become a skilled player, teaches the child fundamentally sound technique.

When their child expresses an interest to pursue  a particular sport, this is true of  football, baseball, basketball coaches as well.

Professionals in every sport/game know there is any easy way to do it (using fundamentally sound technique) and a hard way (using unorthodox technique). Obviously, parents who are professional players or coaches themselves will teach their own kids fundamentally sound technique.

For golf, any person characterizing "speed" as some sort of factor separate from fundamentally sound technique does not know what he/she is talking about, is faking it, and  should be ignored. 

 

Hank Haney 


https://www.golfwrx.com/639449/hank-haney-this-whole-hit-the-fairway-thing-is-a-bunch-of-baloney-and-it-always-has-been-blasts-golf-media-idiots/

 

 

 

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TSi2 21* / Ventus Red 9x

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59 minutes ago, MPAndreassi said:

This is an extreme example, however there is a lot of good points in it. 
 

A) Not everyone can generate speed in the same way. Peoples bodies are different and that requires a difference in technique or fundamentals. 
 

B) Speed, in any sport, isn’t something you can teach. Forcing yourself into some sort of cookie cutter technique is going to limit the speed you’re able to make. 
 

Those points being made you have assume there is some sort of ability or semblance of something that resembles a “good” golf swing. Obviously someone who is swinging for the first time needs to understand some level of fundamentals and what it’s supposed to look and feel like, but once you get to that cusp speed first, straight later. 
 

 

I agree with your premise, but Speed can be taught.  I used to think it couldn't, then after talking to several highly credible instructors I have changed my opinion.

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1 hour ago, MPAndreassi said:

Spot on.  Doesn't matter if it is in the fairway.  Just matters whether or not you can find it and it is in play.  Would rather have an approach from 100 yards with a wedge in the rough than 160 yards from the middle of the fairway.

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1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 The concepts that are taught today would have been considered unorthodox

 

 

 

Golf history is littered with incompetent instructors teaching whatever happens to be the flavor of the month. Naive consumers latch on to the nonsense rhetoric like kids collecting Halloween candy.

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1 hour ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

To quote a handful of golfers.  Easier to hit a green with a LW then a 6 iron.  You can be in the fairway all day.  If you're 100 yards behind I don't care.

 

No player with fundamentally sound technique is going to be "100 yards behind" anybody.

 

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1 hour ago, MPAndreassi said:

 

Hank Haney 


 

 

 

 

 

Throughout history I don't believe there is anybody who has done more harm to the game of golf than Hank Haney.

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28 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

No player with fundamentally sound technique is going to be "100 yards behind" anybody.

 

Zach Johnson, Brian Gay, and a host of others would disagree with you.  If Zach was just 20 yards longer off the tee he would have several more majors.  If Brian Gay was longer he would never have to worry about his tour card.

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31 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep, and this is so weird and just happened to notice a thread got started here and hoped it was a positive one.  

 

Sorry, but when you keep repeating how good the kid isn't you are just attacking him and it is wrong and these comments are beneath what we should see in the junior section - juniors read it, too, and some bad examples here. 

 

Same reason I clicked and I was also quickly disappointed with the turn of events. Who would have guessed @leezer99's positive comment would turn into a d*** measuring contest about whose 11 year old is better than someone else's 11 year old.

 

Come on guys get it together and act like adults.....

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32 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Same reason I clicked and I was also quickly disappointed with the turn of events. Who would have guessed @leezer99's positive comment would turn into a d*** measuring contest about whose 11 year old is better than someone else's 11 year old.

 

Come on guys get it together and act like adults.....

Yes, I made sure to start it positive. Should have known better. 

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4 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Golf history is littered with incompetent instructors teaching whatever happens to be the flavor of the month. Naive consumers latch on to the nonsense rhetoric like kids collecting Halloween candy.


I wouldn’t call the instructor incompetent they teach what people see on TV because that is what people want. 

 

I know of a few guys who didn’t teach the flavor of the month and were great instructors but had to leave the business and sell insurance because well no one wanted those lessons.

 

Great instructors though offer much more the Flavor the month too.  You can get a lot insight on what tour players do and learn from it.  That alone will take you up a few notches.

 

 

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