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Replace 4i with what?


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I did something similar a while back.  Put in a Mizuno CLK 4 hybrid... 22*.  Tried several others but couldn't beat the feel/consistency of the Mizuno.  They sort of fly under the radar, but worth tes

4 hybrid with the iron set 4 iron shaft. 

You could cut the G410 4 Hy from the butt to get it close to 4i shaft length - a less expensive experiment. Might have to add a weight or lead tape for swing weight.

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I’m not sure how many hours I have spent pondering about my setup between driver and 5 iron. Too many, that’s for sure.

For me it’s about gapping, trajectory and spin. This season I might have solved the 4 iron spot with a Callaway Apex 19 23 degree hybrid in a ProForce V2 shaft cut to 38,5. It gaps perfectly with my 26 degree Apex MB 5 iron, and I can use it as a fairway finder with easy fades, hit lower (not stinger-low) “step on it” draws and normal straight shots. It’s spinny enough and got a high enough landing angle to hit nicely into greens as well. I prefer the more iron like shape, it just suits my eye.

 

Now my challenge is the two other clubs between driver and this lovely 4h...

Edited by asKaasa
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TaylorMade SIM2 Driver 8,75° HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 60 6.0

TaylorMade SIM2 Max Fairway 3 15° HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM2 Rescue 3 19,5° ProForce V2 8HY S

TaylorMade P770 4 22,5° KBS Tour 90 S

Callaway Apex MB 18 5 26° - P 47° KBS Tour 115 R+

Callaway Apex MB 18 A 51° KBS Tour 120 S

haywoodgolf Signature RAW 55°, 59° TT DG S400

Nordberg Long neck BGT Stability Tour

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I’m with buzzkill. If I’m looking for an exact 4 iron distance I always have to loft up on the hybrid. So 5 hybrid gets me 4 iron distance. This might not be true for everyone. 
 

lots of options out there to fill the gap. Basically what you have to decide is how much forgiveness you are looking for. If it’s just a little bit more than go for the p770 or p790 4 iron. If significantly more than you want to get a hybrid. There’s also lots of variations in hybrids. For example the Callaway super hybrid is essentially a fairway wood. 

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9 hours ago, asKaasa said:

I’m not sure how many hours I have spent pondering about my setup between driver and 5 iron. Too many, that’s for sure.

For me it’s about gapping, trajectory and spin. This season I might have solved the 4 iron spot with a Callaway Apex 19 23 degree hybrid in a ProForce V2 shaft cut to 39,5. It gaps perfectly with my 26 degree Apex MB 5 iron, and I can use it as a fairway finder with easy fades, hit lower (not stinger-low) “step on it” draws and normal straight shots. It’s spinny enough and got a high enough landing angle to hit nicely into greens as well. I prefer the more iron like shape, it just suits my eye.

 

Now my challenge is the two other clubs between driver and this lovely 4h...

Is it your experience that a 23* hybrid replaces 4i better than a 21*?  I found with older lofted iron sets 21* made the most sense for me, additionally a 19* seemed to be a low launch roll out club for me and not really playable.  I have nver considered a 23* hybrid as that seemed closer to my stronger lofted 5i and worried it would gap enough.  Can't find one to hit anywhere, so thinking of lofting up or shortening my 21* to fit the bill.  I can comfortably hit it but worried a flushed shot will sometimes go to far.  

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7 minutes ago, drscott266 said:

Is it your experience that a 23* hybrid replaces 4i better than a 21*?  I found with older lofted iron sets 21* made the most sense for me, additionally a 19* seemed to be a low launch roll out club for me and not really playable.  I have nver considered a 23* hybrid as that seemed closer to my stronger lofted 5i and worried it would gap enough.  Can't find one to hit anywhere, so thinking of lofting up or shortening my 21* to fit the bill.  I can comfortably hit it but worried a flushed shot will sometimes go to far.  

My initial response is that I believe that to be loft and length depending for the specific 4 iron. Irons vary a lot in loft these days, but my Callaway Apex MB iron set got more traditional lots, IE 23° 4 iron, 26° 5 iron. With my 4h 38,5 length setup, the gapping is spot on.

TaylorMade SIM2 Driver 8,75° HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 60 6.0

TaylorMade SIM2 Max Fairway 3 15° HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 70 6.0

TaylorMade SIM2 Rescue 3 19,5° ProForce V2 8HY S

TaylorMade P770 4 22,5° KBS Tour 90 S

Callaway Apex MB 18 5 26° - P 47° KBS Tour 115 R+

Callaway Apex MB 18 A 51° KBS Tour 120 S

haywoodgolf Signature RAW 55°, 59° TT DG S400

Nordberg Long neck BGT Stability Tour

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On 12/23/2020 at 10:03 AM, mholmstrom said:

I just put Taylor Made P7-MC's in the bag, but was reluctant to get the 4 iron because I need something more forgiving. My "3 Hybrid" is a 19 Degree Titleist 910 and my 5i is 26 degrees so I need something similar to a 4i with more forgiveness in the 23 degree range.  What do you like?  I prefer Cobra or Titleist at the top end of the bag. 

I prefer a more forgiving 4i.

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4 hours ago, kiwii said:

I’m with buzzkill. If I’m looking for an exact 4 iron distance I always have to loft up on the hybrid. So 5 hybrid gets me 4 iron distance. This might not be true for everyone. 
 

lots of options out there to fill the gap. Basically what you have to decide is how much forgiveness you are looking for. If it’s just a little bit more than go for the p770 or p790 4 iron. If significantly more than you want to get a hybrid. There’s also lots of variations in hybrids. For example the Callaway super hybrid is essentially a fairway wood. 

As you know, all hybrids are NOT the same. Some are more iron like and some more wood like. I’ve found the most iron like to be the Adams super 9031. What I like about them, they aren’t juiced and way longer than your irons. They flight more iron like, and are great for gapping. If I wanted a 3/4 wood replacement, then the Super Hybrid or another more wood like iteration of hybrid would be best! 
 

Not for nothing, you can buy a New Adams Super 9031 hybrid head only for $30+ On E’bay right now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

I’ve bought 4 totals 😜

 

 

22BC3F48-05A1-425B-AD45-9F9CEC69F5F5.png

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These hybid irons are suppose to be a direct replacement for irons, and don't have all the offset you generally find in hybrids from major manf's. I have some, and if you struggle with pulling, hooking hybrids, these will cure that. They play very similar to irons in this respect.

 

https://www.thomasgolf.com/Hybrids-Right/Mens-AT705

>Mavrik Max 12.5* 

>Mavrik 16.5* 4w

>Mavrik Max 4, 5, 6, 7 hybrids

>7--SW Dynacraft Prophet Muscle Blade Irons

>MD5 Jaws 58* W grind LW

>Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide Putter

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I’ve narrowed it down to either my Titleist TS2 21* or picking up a u510 22* with same shaft as hybrid.  What do you all likely think I would see as a difference between the two?  Length is actually almost identical and loft is similar. Trying to eliminate the mega long flushed shot I would occasionally see with my hybrid, but also need something easy to swing so the ball goes somewhere close to where it’s supposed to every time. Worried I have to give the nod to the hybrid for that, but wanted your all’s thoughts since u510 is almost a hybrid anyway.

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10 hours ago, drscott266 said:

I’ve narrowed it down to either my Titleist TS2 21* or picking up a u510 22* with same shaft as hybrid.  What do you all likely think I would see as a difference between the two?  Length is actually almost identical and loft is similar. Trying to eliminate the mega long flushed shot I would occasionally see with my hybrid, but also need something easy to swing so the ball goes somewhere close to where it’s supposed to every time. Worried I have to give the nod to the hybrid for that, but wanted your all’s thoughts since u510 is almost a hybrid anyway.

I get along great with my hybrid.  YMMV 😉

In my Datrek - DG lite II cart bag attached via Top-Lok to my Bag Boy - Quad XL - I'm decidedly brand agnostic:

PING - G400 Max 10.5 - Graphite Design Tour AD DI 5 R

Titleist - TS2 4W - Graphite Design Tour AD DI 6 RS TS2 7W - Alta CB 65 R

Cobra - Baffler 23* - Aldila NV-HL 65 R

PXG - 0211 (2019 version) - 5-PW - MMT 80 S

Cleveland - CBX2 50 / 54 / 58 - Rotex 

L.A.B. Golf - Directed Force 2.1 - KBS Tour - Press No. II 3*

Snell - MTB  Black

 

 

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Keep it simple and get a ts3 at 23 degrees.  Great club.  TS2 is advertised as more forgiving, but either is a great option on sale now and the ts3 is a joy to hit.  I have a TS2, but a really liked the 3 based on a recent demo

TS2 driver, 9.5 - Tensei  AV Blue 55, s
Mavrik 4-wood, 16.5 - Evenflow Riptide 65, s
Callaway Super Hybrid, 20 - Tensei Orange 80, r
Ping G425 hybrid, 22 - Tensei Orange 80, s
AP3, 5-48* - Steelfiber i95 r
SM8 52, F12; 58, D12 - Steelfiber i95 r
White Hot OG 1ws,  Stroke Lab, 33"

 

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17 minutes ago, homergolf said:

Keep it simple and get a ts3 at 23 degrees.  Great club.  TS2 is advertised as more forgiving, but either is a great option on sale now and the ts3 is a joy to hit.  I have a TS2, but a really liked the 3 based on a recent demo

And the 23* is a better replacement for the 21* iron you all think?  My 5 iron is 24*. I always hit the ball crummy in the sim when I try to test this and no one has a 23* to test actually. I tend to only do well when Titleist comes to town and we hit outside. 

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Back in the day, people played with 24 degree 3 irons and after that a 20 degree 5 wood (easier to hit than a 2 iron) and 15 degree 3 wood.  Modern clubs are de-lofted but are presumably re-lofted if hit properly with adequate speed...which mostly they are not.  Now we have app. 20 degree 4 irons nobody can hit, just like they used to have 20 degree 2 irons no one could hit.

 

With hybrids supposedly you use the same swing as your irons, which in the context of this question is not good enough to hit a 20 degree club.

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9 hours ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

Back in the day, people played with 24 degree 3 irons and after that a 20 degree 5 wood (easier to hit than a 2 iron) and 15 degree 3 wood.  Modern clubs are de-lofted but are presumably re-lofted if hit properly with adequate speed...which mostly they are not.  Now we have app. 20 degree 4 irons nobody can hit, just like they used to have 20 degree 2 irons no one could hit.

 

With hybrids supposedly you use the same swing as your irons, which in the context of this question is not good enough to hit a 20 degree club.

If this isn't the most logical thing I have heard today, I don't know what is.  All the marketing around tungsten still can't replace good ole loft.  I find the flight of my 5i and my 4i to be complete opposites honestly, and that makes sense that spin and launch would be that of 3 iron or even 2 iron in the my modern 4i.  

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:32 PM, drscott266 said:

And the 23* is a better replacement for the 21* iron you all think?  My 5 iron is 24*. I always hit the ball crummy in the sim when I try to test this and no one has a 23* to test actually. I tend to only do well when Titleist comes to town and we hit outside. 

I'm not sure the comparison of the loft of a hybrid vs an iron is exactly apples-to-apples.  I get significantly more distance from the same lofted hybrid as iron.  I think it's more of a distance gap question than a loft of club question.  The shaft length is also a consideration.

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TS2 driver, 9.5 - Tensei  AV Blue 55, s
Mavrik 4-wood, 16.5 - Evenflow Riptide 65, s
Callaway Super Hybrid, 20 - Tensei Orange 80, r
Ping G425 hybrid, 22 - Tensei Orange 80, s
AP3, 5-48* - Steelfiber i95 r
SM8 52, F12; 58, D12 - Steelfiber i95 r
White Hot OG 1ws,  Stroke Lab, 33"

 

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