Blade (MB) MythBuster

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

OK so sure let's take this thread seriously and empirically....

 

So, can someone explain to me why a mishit ball with GI's that "flies into the woods" whereas a blade would land short is some sort of proof of anything other than terrible aim?

 

So, your mishit GI that flies into the woods....Um, wouldn't a well struck ball have gone further into the woods? Why were you aiming at the woods ? 

 

Why does "long" only go into water but "short" never does? Do you guys play a lot of courses where all the hazards are behind the green?

 

FWIW i don't care what people play. I have used MP32s, S59's, G15's, JPX forged, Apex Pros, G410s...I DONT CARE....But cmon we cant question stuff like "blades make me try harder!"

 

 Ok, I'll bite, mind I care little what anybody plays or why, lol. MB's have more spin, loft for loft , some more. Keeping the ball in front of you appears to be easier. Using face angle to offset bad path is easier. Pesky impact misses will come up another 15'-20' shorter than CB's. Often bad impact is married with bad path too. So, poor swing may go offline but it will come up shorter with better chance it's still in play. Also, on most golf holes I play and it's not close, coming up short is the better option than being left, right or long. In the event there's an in front hazard, bunker or water, the simple solution is add 1/2 to full club go for back 1/3 of green. 

 

Is this bro science? Maybe but a noticeable thing about going old school MB was my ball consumption dropping quite a bit.

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I spin the ball more with players clubs, but hit the ball higher with GIs. So there's a bit of a tradeoff it really depends on the situation. I'd probably rather hit a 3-4-5 iron with a GI and a 9 iron with a blade TBH

Combo set? I’ve always been too nervous to try one because the last thing I need is an internal blades vs cavity back argument out on the course

[chippa13]

I wonder if the guys who say the blade is better because while a mishit will be noticeably shorter but closer to the fairway (not sure how that goes but whatever) are the same guys who preach driver on every hole because longer is always better than accurate.

[LowAndLeft32]

39 minutes ago, revanant said:

This is a recent video from Mark Crossfield on exactly this topic. He set out to test a Mavrik Max against a random Top-Flite blade from the '80s, on dispersion/distance loss from mishits. There are charts. 🙂
 

 

On the "concentration" side, I don't quite get why folks who play golf find it weird. Matthew Wolff does his funky juke before every swing--its a training aid that helps him swing well. Some folks waggle the club, take practice swings, etc.
 

Personally, I find that having a blade in play is a very effective swing thought/reminder not to overswing, that 80% power is plenty, and smooth=fast. Putting a blade behind the ball is a very effective and sobering swing thought.  That being said, all things being equal, I wouldn't turn down a free set of 620 CBs or MP-20 MMCs--I don't think a small cavity magically spoils a club. 
 

On the issue of mishits flying further though, that is something I've definitely experienced with prior sets (716 AP1, Idea Tech v4, etc) and it's a real problem. 
 

We all play golf. A lot of golf courses aren't friendly to mishit balls. If my ball is directionally offline, I want it to die and stop as fast as possible, because if it doesn't, there's a good chance I'm going to lose the ball or get wet. I don't want it flying faster and carrying further in the wrong direction, because a lost ball is the fastest way to ruin a hole. 
 

Likewise, I really don't want my ball to fly further than I expect it to with an iron. We all have to factor in the short miss when we play golf--it's a known quantity. If there's a hazard in front of me, I can plan around it by taking more club, etc. If my ball winds up in the water because I made poor contact, it's not good, but it's not a surprise. 
 

A long miss is bad because it's unpredictable. It not only can ruin a hole, but it shakes my confidence that I know my distances. It leaves me wary of making a full swing the next time I pull my iron out. It rewards a good input with bad feedback/results. 
 

Ultimately, a long miss just makes golf harder. If you look at the Crossfield video, the Mavrik has a two way miss, length-wise. Lots of golfers make it a point to remove the two-way miss from their game on the horizontal plane. The Mavrik Max basically introduces a vertical miss that the blade doesn't have. 

This Crossfield video was very interesting. Thanks for sharing. According to his test distance loss on mishits with blades don’t see as big as a drop off as people always seem to claim as the problem with blades. Anybody done a similar test? 

[SamboRoll]

I’d like to add one aspect in favor of blades, that I haven’t seen in this thread yet: the short game, i.e.  chipping and pitching. In my current mixed set of Mizuno irons I have 4-7 mp18 sc’s and 8-P mp18 blades. Big reason for this is their workability around the green and under 100 yards. I’ve learned more of an old school short game where I prefer to keep the ball low and utilise the green for roll as much as possible. Getting Up and Down by Tom Watson, anyone? 😉 Chipping and pitching with blades just feels so much better and you can go for shots more aggressively with them due to smaller club head and sharper turf interaction. It does require some skill to start with to get the best advantage out of blades in the short game but I recommend at least giving it a try!

 

I also have a full iron set of Mizuno mp69 blades that I play for fun sometimes, try out shot making etc. Even if you don’t want to get blades for regular scoring clubs I’d recommend to buy just 4i or 5i for practicing your swing, because it will improve your ball stricking and you will learn to make a difference between good shots and misses. Even better if you can practice on a grass range and in windy conditions. There will be no mercy for those half fat misses or high spinners that one can get away with off the mat with cb’s or game improvement irons that have artificially strong lofts and club head size of a small frying pan. I call the blade lofts true lofts btw.

To make a long story short, blades are great for practicing your game (feedback) and for learning new skills, i.e. shot making, de-lofting the club, controlling spin and trajectory, etc. Just the fact that the sweet spot is smaller and definitely sweeter in blades make them worth consideration to every golfer who is interested to learn more of this game and wants to understand fundamentals of ball stricking. Why should it be anybody’s problem if a recreational golfer wants to try them out, as improved scores will eventually come via improved skills, and blades help in that process...sometimes the hard way. 😄 

Edited December 29, 2020 by SamboRoll

[GolfTurkey]

10 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Is this bro science? Maybe but a noticeable thing about going old school MB was my ball consumption dropping quite a bit.

 

Interesting. My ball consumption dropped when I started packing a couple bananas into my bag before a round.

[MtlJeff]

9 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 Ok, I'll bite, mind I care little what anybody plays or why, lol. MB's have more spin, loft for loft , some more. Keeping the ball in front of you appears to be easier. Using face angle to offset bad path is easier. Pesky impact misses will come up another 15'-20' shorter than CB's. Often bad impact is married with bad path too. So, poor swing may go offline but it will come up shorter with better chance it's still in play. Also, on most golf holes I play and it's not close, coming up short is the better option than being left, right or long. In the event there's an in front hazard, bunker or water, the simple solution is add 1/2 to full club go for back 1/3 of green. 

 

Is this bro science? Maybe but a noticeable thing about going old school MB was my ball consumption dropping quite a bit.

 

I get it if that is the way you want to play. Like you, i care little what anyone else plays. I just have to bite on threads that make GI's out to be this terrible option that forces you not to concentrate and results in fliers every 2nd swing

 

My experience with GI (heck i use SGI's) is that i get slightly improved carry on mishits. I don't worry too much about directional forgiveness as i'm pretty good at squaring the face. However like many golfers i'll hit one a little out on the toe or the heel. I feel i get slightly better carry with my G410's than previous irons. So maybe a mishit 5 iron goes 180 when i'm trying to hit it 200. Rather than 170. This almost always benefits me rather than hurts me. I have experienced zero issues with these fliers that are always referenced. I rarely overshoot greens, however i am also usually trying to land the ball short of the hole as that is how our course sets up.

 

At the end of the day people should play what they want to play. And sure there's give and take. But like i said above it can't always go one way. Either CBs are more forgiving or they aren't. And if they aren't there are pros and cons associated

[MtlJeff]

13 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

Combo set? I’ve always been too nervous to try one because the last thing I need is an internal blades vs cavity back argument out on the course

 

I've done that before. I used a G15/I15 set back in the day. I don't really like it because they don't flow together well typically. At the end of the day i just deal with the short irons. It's not a big problem. I launch my 8,9,PW to the moon with G410s though

 

Whenever i consider going back to players clubs it's almost always due to trajectory over everything else

 

That being said the 4 irons scare me. I just don't hit them high enough

[Nick_E]

I understand the appeal of playing a blade, and also the feel of that perfectly struck shot.  I played Henry griffits in high school and mp 32s in college and after for 10 years.  I could hit the sweet spot almost every time and had the speed to generate the height.  I also would work the ball into pins.  

 

I now only play 2 to 4 times a month and range time is only 20 minutes before a round.   That dead center strike isn't there anymore.  I'm still a 2 handicap and I wouldn't even think about a blade.

 

I recently sold my mp 32s and looked at the 3 and wondered how the hell did I ever hit it, and have confidence to hit it.  I didn't even think about it when I played them because I hit balls for 2 hours a day.

 

The best to those that enjoy the challenge of a blade, but a blade doesn't make you better.   Practice will.  A GI iron will help with those mihits and for rhe vast majority of amateurs they need that help.

 

A blade is like dating a really hot girl that's super high maintenance.  You feel cool and your friends envy you, but in the end you pay for it.  Is it worth it, you have to decide.

 

[Jimjam651]

10 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 Ok, I'll bite, mind I care little what anybody plays or why, lol. MB's have more spin, loft for loft , some more. Keeping the ball in front of you appears to be easier. Using face angle to offset bad path is easier. Pesky impact misses will come up another 15'-20' shorter than CB's. Often bad impact is married with bad path too. So, poor swing may go offline but it will come up shorter with better chance it's still in play. Also, on most golf holes I play and it's not close, coming up short is the better option than being left, right or long. In the event there's an in front hazard, bunker or water, the simple solution is add 1/2 to full club go for back 1/3 of green. 

 

Is this bro science? Maybe but a noticeable thing about going old school MB was my ball consumption dropping quite a bit.

Its not bro science at all it's your experience and it's valid

 

Serious game improvement clubs launch higher, spin less & have stronger lofts.  There is some evidence that they have 'hot misses' but retain ball speed on mishits 

 

Blades launch a bit lower, spin more & have weaker lofts, there is evidence mis hits will lose more ball speed due to lower MOI but they don't appear to have the same hot low spin miss

 

Depending on your tendencies you'll fall somewhere towards blades or SGIs.  

 

The biggest problem I have with the comparison of moi & forgiveness is getting hold of the data where someone has tested equivalent delivered lofts, strikes & speed to quantify the amount of yardage retained.  

 

I was listening to a podcast a couple of weeks ago with one of Pings R&D guys who've tested and have evidence that, in the hands of better players smaller clubheads are more accurate.  They don't know why yet, it could be head design or a psychological thing - it's on one of golf's fully equipped podcasts and I will find it but can't remember which one.

 

I avoid the argument because it becomes so absolute, you're either on the blade or cavity side and whoever is on the other is wrong and 'chasing distance loft jacking' or 'kidding themselves blades make them better / think they're better than tour players'

 

Tagging @MtlJeff in this as well as I was flippant earlier when I shouldn't have been, apologies!

 

 

 

[MtlJeff]

@Jimjam651 It's all good man, i've been a bit rude in this thread too. At the end of the day we all love golf and can talk about it respectfully

[Nick_E]

2 hours ago, revanant said:

This is a recent video from Mark Crossfield on exactly this topic. He set out to test a Mavrik Max against a random Top-Flite blade from the '80s, on dispersion/distance loss from mishits. There are charts. 🙂
 

 

On the "concentration" side, I don't quite get why folks who play golf find it weird. Matthew Wolff does his funky juke before every swing--its a training aid that helps him swing well. Some folks waggle the club, take practice swings, etc.
 

Personally, I find that having a blade in play is a very effective swing thought/reminder not to overswing, that 80% power is plenty, and smooth=fast. Putting a blade behind the ball is a very effective and sobering swing thought.  That being said, all things being equal, I wouldn't turn down a free set of 620 CBs or MP-20 MMCs--I don't think a small cavity magically spoils a club. 
 

On the issue of mishits flying further though, that is something I've definitely experienced with prior sets (716 AP1, Idea Tech v4, etc) and it's a real problem. 
 

We all play golf. A lot of golf courses aren't friendly to mishit balls. If my ball is directionally offline, I want it to die and stop as fast as possible, because if it doesn't, there's a good chance I'm going to lose the ball or get wet. I don't want it flying faster and carrying further in the wrong direction, because a lost ball is the fastest way to ruin a hole. 
 

Likewise, I really don't want my ball to fly further than I expect it to with an iron. We all have to factor in the short miss when we play golf--it's a known quantity. If there's a hazard in front of me, I can plan around it by taking more club, etc. If my ball winds up in the water because I made poor contact, it's not good, but it's not a surprise. 
 

A long miss is bad because it's unpredictable. It not only can ruin a hole, but it shakes my confidence that I know my distances. It leaves me wary of making a full swing the next time I pull my iron out. It rewards a good input with bad feedback/results. 
 

Ultimately, a long miss just makes golf harder. If you look at the Crossfield video, the Mavrik has a two way miss, length-wise. Lots of golfers make it a point to remove the two-way miss from their game on the horizontal plane. The Mavrik Max basically introduces a vertical miss that the blade doesn't have. 

This was very intriguing and couldn't believe the charts. Now Mark is a good ball striker so his poor hits probably weren't that poor.  Either way it'll be a fun test for me to try next time on my iron fitting.

[Myherobobhope]

17 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

This was very intriguing and couldn't believe the charts. Now Mark is a good ball striker so his poor hits probably weren't that poor.  Either way it'll be a fun test for me to try next time on my iron fitting.

I think this is something everyone should try. We should all spend time learning our dispersion and finding the clubs that give the best results for them...

 

I am willing to believe game improvement irons can create fliers and increase dispersion, as shown in the video... I’m also willing to believe blades can create inconsistent distances due to less forgiveness...

 

[hypergolf]

22 hours ago, LeftyMatt24 said:

Awesome write up of your experiences. Grabbing some popcorn for the comments this thread will have. 

 

I think you were right! Can't believe the amount of interesting opinions regarding this topic. I guess I opened a Pandora Box that was tightly sealed in this forum. LOL. 

 

I ran out of pop corns now! Need to get more! 

[revanant]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I get it if that is the way you want to play. Like you, i care little what anyone else plays. I just have to bite on threads that make GI's out to be this terrible option that forces you not to concentrate and results in fliers every 2nd swing

 

My experience with GI (heck i use SGI's) is that i get slightly improved carry on mishits. I don't worry too much about directional forgiveness as i'm pretty good at squaring the face. However like many golfers i'll hit one a little out on the toe or the heel. I feel i get slightly better carry with my G410's than previous irons. So maybe a mishit 5 iron goes 180 when i'm trying to hit it 200. Rather than 170. This almost always benefits me rather than hurts me. I have experienced zero issues with these fliers that are always referenced. I rarely overshoot greens, however i am also usually trying to land the ball short of the hole as that is how our course sets up.

 

At the end of the day people should play what they want to play. And sure there's give and take. But like i said above it can't always go one way. Either CBs are more forgiving or they aren't. And if they aren't there are pros and cons associated

For what it's worth, if I was playing to scratch with G410s, I'd pull a Tommy Fleetwood and fill my house with every set of G410s I could get my hands on. 🙂

 

[hypergolf]

3 hours ago, PuffyC said:

A buddy of mine who’s probably a 20 handicap tried this same experiment only he went from a GI club to a true blade. Here’s what he found:

 

 

1. You will lose distance with blades - Partly True. If you hit it in the sweet spot then no, you probably won’t lose distance. Less than perfect strike? You will definitely lose distance, sometimes a lot.

 

2. Blades are more punishing than cavity backs - True, although it depends on what you mean by “punishing”. His golf was far uglier with blades but the scorecard showed no meaningful difference.

 

3. You need a good swing to play with blades - False. Anyone can play blades, it just depends on how much you want to torture yourself if you’re not a scratch player. He saw no real scoring difference but the game was far less enjoyable with blades.

 

4. Blades have higher spin rate - True. The Trackman numbers were clear on this.

 

5. Blades feel better than CBs/game improvement irons - False, for him anyway. In my 40 years of playing I’d tend to agree. I’ve hit some clubs that felt awesome and some that felt terrible, and while a players club will almost always feel better, I’ve found no actual correlation with blades vs CBs or with cast vs forged for that matter. But that’s a debate for another day.

 

As for OP’s clubs, you’re comparing a 785 to a Z-forged, two clubs with very similar MPF ratings so I wouldn’t think there would be significant differences in playability between the two.

 

Should get your buddy to join this forum and write his experience 🙂

 

MPF Mizuno MP20 MB - 359

MPF Mizuno MP20 MMC - 416

MPF Srixon Z785 - 402

MPF Srixon Z Forged - 350

 

Not sure where you are getting the similar MPF rating from. 

 

[MtlJeff]

22 minutes ago, revanant said:

For what it's worth, if I was playing to scratch with G410s, I'd pull a Tommy Fleetwood and fill my house with every set of G410s I could get my hands on. 🙂

 

 

Believe it or not within a year I'll be bored and playing players clubs again lol. 

 

The new I59s look sweet

[bevans0222]

I think there are a lot of things that go into a persons opinions regarding blades/CB/GI/SGI.  A couple that come to mind are familiarity, and spin.  Regarding familiarity, I'll use myself as an example.  As an older golfer, I grew up playing blades.  Having played them for many years before there were a lot of other options, I became comfortable with playing them.  When I put a blade into my hands, my first thought isn't how "small" they are.  It's usually more along the lines of how great they look.  With regard to spin, some golfers just don't generate as much spin as others.  For those golfers, a blade may actually help them with their launch numbers.  Again, using myself as an example, I learned on blades(Hogan Apex II's).  So I spent years working on my swing to optimize what I could get out of a blade iron.  In general, I hit a low spinning, flat launching ball.  It's always a bit amusing to be fit for a driver, and watch the fitter scratch their head early on, trying to figure out how add spin.  I just did an iron fitting a week ago, and hit a bunch of different options ranging from hollow players distance(p770), to MB's.  My fitter really expected to sell me the p770's, or the Cally X-forged.  Neither provided enough spin to get me in a decent range.  The p770's in particular had great ball speed, but fell out of the sky due to lack of spin.  Even when we got the launch angles in a good spot.  When all was said and done, 3 out of my top 4 irons based on numbers alone, were MB's.  I said this in another thread recently, but I really think people need to try out a bunch of different options, because no one club will fit everyone.

[hardpan1]

21 hours ago, llewol007 said:

Forced you to hit the middle of the face. You became addicted to the feel of a solid shot of the face of a Mb iron. Nothing better

At 69yrs old playing mp20's...enjoying the ride...

[llewol007]

I really hit blades for personal preference. Scores are pretty much the same. Just love the feel and it is what I am used to. 

[hypergolf]

2 hours ago, hardpan1 said:

At 69yrs old playing mp20's...enjoying the ride...

 R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

[rxk9fan]

62yrs  here and have owned more irons than I can count.  I have found I can score about the same with most any reasonably small head (mid single digit HC) but the shaft is the key.  I need to be able to control trajectory to some extent, and have proper spin rates to get the ball where I want it.  

After that, it comes down to enjoyment of the strike while I am on the course.  My last 25 rounds have been with the new TM P770 in SteelFibers and I have played where I expect.  However, I now have a set of Srixon Z945's coming that I will shaft in Recoil 110F4 shafts.  I like the P770, but I don't know where my slight misses are hitting on the club.  The feel is just not transmitted and I can't make the small adjustments needed to really dial in some rounds.  Having owned the Z945 before, I know what I will be able to feel and I think this helps me make small changes to improve my ball striking.  

Those small changes to dial things in will not change my score of the round usually, but it will bring a big smile to my face when I flush a couple coming down the stretch.

Would SGI clubs help me....who knows.  I can't stand to even look at the sole let alone try to chip from a bare, wet lie with one.  

I am competitive and want to play my best.  But, I want to enjoy as many aspects of the game as possible while I play up to my ability (and often below it LOL).  This subject gets batted around from time to time and it can be argued which is best for who.  In my case, I don't have to argue because I have my scores using many different irons, sometimes using as many as three sets in a week.  Club head is not a large factor in my scores.  I hit some very good shots and some very bad shots with each.  If that is the case, I want to play an iron that provides exceptional feel, feels great through the turf, spins appropriately for my style of play, and most importantly gives me the most consistent and repeatable distances.  

[Bad9]

13 hours ago, SamboRoll said:

I’d like to add one aspect in favor of blades, that I haven’t seen in this thread yet: the short game, i.e.  chipping and pitching. In my current mixed set of Mizuno irons I have 4-7 mp18 sc’s and 8-P mp18 blades. Big reason for this is their workability around the green and under 100 yards. I’ve learned more of an old school short game where I prefer to keep the ball low and utilise the green for roll as much as possible. Getting Up and Down by Tom Watson, anyone? 😉 Chipping and pitching with blades just feels so much better and you can go for shots more aggressively with them due to smaller club head and sharper turf interaction. It does require some skill to start with to get the best advantage out of blades in the short game but I recommend at least giving it a try!

 

I also have a full iron set of Mizuno mp69 blades that I play for fun sometimes, try out shot making etc. Even if you don’t want to get blades for regular scoring clubs I’d recommend to buy just 4i or 5i for practicing your swing, because it will improve your ball stricking and you will learn to make a difference between good shots and misses. Even better if you can practice on a grass range and in windy conditions. There will be no mercy for those half fat misses or high spinners that one can get away with off the mat with cb’s or game improvement irons that have artificially strong lofts and club head size of a small frying pan. I call the blade lofts true lofts btw.

To make a long story short, blades are great for practicing your game (feedback) and for learning new skills, i.e. shot making, de-lofting the club, controlling spin and trajectory, etc. Just the fact that the sweet spot is smaller and definitely sweeter in blades make them worth consideration to every golfer who is interested to learn more of this game and wants to understand fundamentals of ball stricking. Why should it be anybody’s problem if a recreational golfer wants to try them out, as improved scores will eventually come via improved skills, and blades help in that process...sometimes the hard way. 😄 

I'm a believer you should practice and learn "new skills" with the clubs you are playing regardless of club head style, shaft or length. This is especially true with the short game. Fundamentals of ball striking apply no matter the club and I believe you are better learning those with your regular clubs. Contrary to what some of the GI vs MB threads claim you can flight the ball, work it both ways, etc with something other than a MB, most of us shouldn't be trying to do that on a regular basis anyway. Pros try to hit their stock shot whenever possible and so should we. I also agree with Mtljeff in that a ball hit into the woods is likely going into the woods whatever the type of club it is hit with.

[cgasucks]

For me after gaming blades for quite a while I noticed these things and these things are in agreement with the findings of the OP

 

- Blades are less forgiving

- Workability of the ball is the same as a player's CB, GI, & SGI

- Their feel is unmatched because of the extra mass behind the sweet spot.

 

 

[Bad9]

10 hours ago, hypergolf said:

 

Should get your buddy to join this forum and write his experience 🙂

 

MPF Mizuno MP20 MB - 359

MPF Mizuno MP20 MMC - 416

MPF Srixon Z785 - 402

MPF Srixon Z Forged - 350

 

Not sure where you are getting the similar MPF rating from. 

 

The differences in the MPF number is marginal in terms of how that would play, neither rank very highly on the MPF scale. If you look at the numbers that make up rating(which most of us believe is more important than the MPF rating) the differences in the club head specs are indeed marginal and the clubs would likely play the same for the same golfer wit the same shafts.

                   C Dimension    MOI      Actual VCOG

Z785           1.214                13.0      .841

Z Forged     1.208                12.3     .864

[Itsjustagame]

As an 8 handicap my experience is that my ball striking is not precise enough to make my choice in iron design relevant to my score.

Shaft weight/swing weight affects my results more than head design.

Not to say you shouldn't use irons that you like the look/feel of.

[pinestreetgolf]

On 12/28/2020 at 9:21 PM, hypergolf said:

2. Blades are more punishing than cavity backs - SEMI-BUSTED - Yes, they are more punishing in terms of distance loss when you mishit. But score card wise, they are actually better. When you mishit a blade, the ball does not fly off into the woods, rough or water but because of the significant distance loss you actually have a better second shot chance from the first initial mishit most of the time.

 

Genius.  I'll just hit PW off every tee and drop 10 strokes.

 

You know you don't have to hit the longest CB possible, right?  You can achieve this easily in any iron set with a little self-discipline?

[NRJyzr]

14 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

This Crossfield video was very interesting. Thanks for sharing. According to his test distance loss on mishits with blades don’t see as big as a drop off as people always seem to claim as the problem with blades. Anybody done a similar test? 

 

I've done this, though it was actually inadvertent.  I went to a local 2nd Swing, was looking at a couple different clubs, thinking about buying a set of irons.  The 2011 TM TP MC were on the list, but I compared with a couple others, including Ping ISI.  I happened to have my set of Golden Ram TW276 in the car (they were the main set at the time), I was encouraged to grab one and do a comparison (5 iron, if it matters).

 

My dispersion with the Rams was between one third and one quarter the size of any of the other clubs I'd been hitting.  Shafts were all pretty similar, didn't have that as a variable.

 

Surprised me a bit, though I suppose it shouldn't have.  2nd Swing fitter told me I should maybe just stick with the Rams.  <shrug>

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by NRJyzr

[PuffyC]

11 hours ago, hypergolf said:

 

Should get your buddy to join this forum and write his experience 🙂

 

MPF Mizuno MP20 MB - 359

MPF Mizuno MP20 MMC - 416

MPF Srixon Z785 - 402

MPF Srixon Z Forged - 350

 

Not sure where you are getting the similar MPF rating from. 

 

Assuming MPF is a linear scale (and I don’t know that), going from the Z785 to the Z-Forged is less of a change than going from the Ping G410 (738) to the Callaway Mavrik (677). Assuming all else is equal, for the typical golfer there would be little meaningful difference. For a real test, take the gal gaming the G410 and make her switch to the Wilson Staff Model blades, then see how many myths you bust. 

[NRJyzr]

2 minutes ago, PuffyC said:

Assuming MPF is a linear scale (and I don’t know that), going from the Z785 to the Z-Forged is less of a change than going from the Ping G410 (738) to the Callaway Mavrik (677). Assuming all else is equal, for the typical golfer there would be little meaningful difference. For a real test, take the gal gaming the G410 and make her switch to the Wilson Staff Model blades, then see how many myths you bust.

 

 

I would recommend not using the final MPF scores for any sort of comparison.  It's really nothing more than a grade system of how close a given design is to the iron head principles Ralph Maltby believes are important.  Those being, a low CG that's some distance from the hosel.  

 

Where the MPF data is king is showing us the CG location and the measured MOI.