Torn between Mavrik SZ and Mizuno ST200g.

[juicegoose]

So last year I went to club champion and was fitted into a titleist ts2 with a Oban black shaft. At the time i was excited as it was much straighter then my old taylormade burner with diamana red bore shaft. As the year progressed i quickly fell out of love. I have struggled all year with spin and ball flight. Never really have felt comfortable over the club as its felt to light and i couldnt control the head it just felt off and lead tape wasnt changing it enough.

 

after a trip to alabama and miserable results from driving i had enough. 

 

today i went to the pga superstore and tested out some clubs. 
My average with my ts2 combo was this(going off memory). 

3100 rpm backspin

dynamic loft 16

clubhead 108

aoa + 1.2 

carry 245

total 255-260

had a lot of them slicing on me which was distance killers and it took me really trying to push the shaft forward to keep the spin down below 3500 rpm. 

 

in came the contenders they both felt great with heavier head feels and heaft. Buttah!!!

mavrik sub zero adila rogue silver 70g stiff

mizuno st200g tensei white ck pro 70g stiff

 

both of these were damn near neck and neck. 
spin rates averaged in mid to low 2000. Slices(rare might have hit 3000. Ts2 slices would hit 5000)

dynamic loft averaged 12-14

distance went way up averaging 260 with occasional 270 shots rolling out past 300

head speed went up too. Overall i felt more in control snd my dispersion showed it. 

 

the swap is happening i just dont know which one to go with. I can get the mavrik used for around 350 clams. 
same for the st200g but it comes with a rogue black ts70 shaft. 

Would it be worth considering the oban shaft with these heads as better alternative to either rogue silver or the rogue black?

 

would the profile of the oban match up to either one?

 

does the mizuno tend to be more forgiving on mishits then the mavrik?

[Valtiel]

My initial impression/concern is how bad the numbers on the TS2 were. The TS2 itself will be a far more forgiving and stable head than either the Callaway or the Mizuno and should not be inherently that much shorter. 245 yards would be insanely inefficient for a 108mph clubhead speed. Plugging those numbers into something like Flightscope yields a smash factor 1.38 to get numbers like that, which is practically a duff with a modern driver. I bring this up because if those numbers are accurate, something really bad is going on with your delivery or your impact, and a shiny new club could easily be a bandaid that you could just as easily find yourself falling out of love with in a similar way. 

You mentioned liking the heavier head feel and that the TS2 felt too light, which is important. Your delivery could be all out of whack with an overly light setup, so before you drop hundreds of dollars on something that is only indirectly addressing the potential problem, drop a small amount on some weights for the TS2, and also consider messing with the SureFit settings. If weight and how you react to it being off is the core issue here then you could drastically improve your TS2 numbers to the point you may not even want to buy a new driver. And even if you still do, then you'll at least be armed with the knowledge that you prefer a certain head weight to get the best results which you can take with you to any future driver purchase. The Callaway and the Mizuno aren't going anywhere, so arm yourself with some knowledge before you potentially waste a big chunk of change. 

[juicegoose]

Thanks bud. I have indeed messed with head weights over the year. I currently play the neck at d1. Ive gone as far as to add upwards of 4-6g of weight both forward and back via lead tape. I practice with a prgr swing monitor and your smash factor numbers are around what im used to seeing with the combo.

now when ive gone with my brother in law to a local indoor range that has bays with trackman it get a little bit more accurate numbers but not far off.

 

case in point after the alabama trip we went into said indoor range as i thought my spin issue was a result of out to in path, aoa or open face.

 

yes i had the occasional duf but as an average i was hitting up on it 1-3 degrees, path averaged within a degree or two of neutral(suprised the hell outta me) and my face on average was within a degree two of path. but the spin rate remained in in excess of 3000 and the dynamic loft never got below 16 degrees.

 

now i hit my brother in laws old r11s with stock stiff shaft and my spin rate went down. And dynamic loft went down staying around 11-14. 
thats what initially opened my eyes was how hard i was struggling to get my driver to bring the loft down and how easy it was to keep it in check with his.

 

today was no different i warmed up hit my shots. Tested other setups and when i got into a grove i would switch to my club put a good straight swing on it and watch my carry drop 20-30 yards, spin increase 100-1500 rom and dynamic loft shoot through the roof. 
switch back to tester and low bombers.

 

im no pro and i know we all can make better swings but i cant make this stuff up. The titliest has to go be it the combo or head or whatever.

 

i tried a bunch of combos and 70g stiff and the above heads gave me the best most consistent results. 

[Red4282]

If your dynamic loft really went from 16 to 12-14, id be looking at loft.. 4 degrees of added loft will definitely kick up spin.

 

what lofts were you hitting all these at?

[juicegoose]

My driver is 9.5 set down to i think 8.75. D1 on titleist chart.

 

both testers were 9 degree set standard.

[third-times-a-charm]

The posters above especially valtiel nailed it - but I just want to add that you can get a Mavrik sub zero for like $240 on callaway preowned. Way less than $350

[juicegoose]

Nice thanks for the heads up. 

[juicegoose]

In regards to shafts would keeping the oban as a possible upgrade to stock rogue silver or rogue black be upgrade?

[Adam C]

The shaft shouldn't make a huge difference in the results over the long term assuming the weight is correct. However I would not be married to a 7 year old Oban shaft from a Club Champion fitting. Consider me skeptical.

[juicegoose]

Ya im not married to it at all.

just asking. 
 

All i know at this point is that i hit all kinds of combos yesterday. 70g shafts felt better to me regardless of head. Felt more in control. The two heads just gave me the best number combos.

and again it was night and day difference between my current gamer.

im no pro just what i saw and felt.

 

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, juicegoose said:

My driver is 9.5 set down to i think 8.75. D1 on titleist chart.

 

both testers were 9 degree set standard.

Something is off, if all were tested at 9* of loft and you saw 3-4 degrees extra dynamic loft, either you have some seriously different shaft discrepancies going on, or you manually added the loft with you swing. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison until get those dynamic lofts to match more closely

[juicegoose]

Right i dont disagree. I was just stating that i have been struggling with my current gamer to keep it servicable. I go to a store and try some different off the shelf options and had big time positive changes.

[Valtiel]

37 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Something is off, if all were tested at 9* of loft and you saw 3-4 degrees extra dynamic loft, either you have some seriously different shaft discrepancies going on, or you manually added the loft with you swing. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison until get those dynamic lofts to match more closely

Agreed, that is a big enough difference to be concerned about delivery and what is causing these significantly different numbers. 

It sounds like you'll need to move on from the TS2 at least just for mental reasons, but I would keep a close eye on the dynamic loft issue as two heads of ostensibly similar loft that have a that big a difference in dynamic loft points to a delivery issue of some sort. An early release/flip could be adding both dynamic loft AND lowering your strike point on the head which is the most potent recipe for high spin, but why that isn't happening with the other clubs is the big question. I'd love to see your swing with your gamer and either the Callaway or the Mizuno, if taking cell phone video is possible at a demo that would be great. Otherwise I would perhaps snag a preowned Mavrik per @third-times-a-charm's recommendation and worry about the loft issue later should it reappear.  

As for the Oban, it is still a fine premium shaft and you could either continue to use it or sell it here or an ebay to help offset the cost of the Mavrik. You should be able to get at least $150 for it. 

[juicegoose]

Thanks for replies guys. I’ll try to get a video of both if possible. When swinging between the two setups all i know is that when i swing my gamer it feels really light and i struggle to feel the head and keep good tempo. With the heavier shaft head combos i tested i just felt more connected. Maybe thats it. Maybe im releasing early on my gamer from overswinging and the seemingly heavier setups are helping my tempo. 
 

thanks again i really do appreciate the knowledge 

[Valtiel]

35 minutes ago, juicegoose said:

Thanks for replies guys. I’ll try to get a video of both if possible. When swinging between the two setups all i know is that when i swing my gamer it feels really light and i struggle to feel the head and keep good tempo. With the heavier shaft head combos i tested i just felt more connected. Maybe thats it. Maybe im releasing early on my gamer from overswinging and the seemingly heavier setups are helping my tempo. 
 

thanks again i really do appreciate the knowledge 

That certainly makes sense, and is something I struggle with as well, although to the opposite extreme. Give me a build that is too light and my release gets snappier, the face shuts down quicker, and I hit unstable knuckleballs.  I know the range I generally prefer and I always know when i've gone a little too heavy because the ball will start leaking a bit high right. I would encourage you to do the same experimenting, either more with the TS2 or with the new Mavrik if you want a fresh start. 

I recommend the Mavrik over the Mizuno btw purely because you said you had good results with both and the Callaway will hold far more resale value should you need to switch. 

[juicegoose]

Thanks again. Although i didnt get video i have some numbers for ya.

i speed train practice with the prgr swing monitor and used it at my range today.

my local club is a callaway dealer and had a sub zero on hand to try with the rogue silver 70g 110 msi shaft.

the prgr gives me club head speed, ball speed, carry distance and smash factor. Carry distance is factored off of measured club head and ball speeds. It was windy today with a strong left to right wind.

out of 20 or so hits with the ts2 i never got the smash factor up to 1.40 or higher

swing speed hovered between 108-115 depending in if i tried to crank on it or not. Ball speed was around the 140 to high 130 if i remember correctly. I was looking at smash factor more then anything.

ball flight was high, spinny and miss was a high slice. On my best hit i measured with my range finder to about 220 into quartering wind that one had a smash of 1.38 i think. 

 

i then tried the mavrik. Miss was more of a lower overly draw based flight or hook. Once i got used to the club a little more that stopped.

swing speed stayed around the same. Ball speed was up. I never saw one below 155mph. I also never saw a smash factor less then 1.43. Flight was lower and just went.

i was landing them on the opposite end of the range which has a berm at 250. Had several go into fence on backside. Put it away after a while because behind the range is staging for starter and i put a couple onto the concrete at their feet and got the double wave hands. Hahah

 far and away a better club for me. 
would have hit more but my 8 year old is a golf junkie and i was working with him on driver when he decided to practice swing while I  placed a ball on the tee for him and he hit my hand with a 75 mph plus driver swing.

not broke but throbbing

Edited December 29, 2020 by juicegoose

[jomatty]

I couldn’t get along with the ts2 either.  Went with a mizuno st200 and have been very happy.  Tough to beat either of the mizunos for the money...