Golf In Canada

[BallerNate]

The OP’s not replying to posts anymore, probably scared off of Canada by all this East Coast vs West Coast beef...or was it the talk of snow and -50 winters, Lol?

[ewaldbeukes]

Sorry for the slow response, new years, lockdown and all... 

 

The jokes are cool, in South Africa its much worse than this haha - seems you guys are going easy on one another!

 

Looks like BC needs a bump in the pecking order if I want to golf 9+ months a year... love the fact that East coast is getting such good feedback too.

 

Coat of golf seems relatively expensive vs here but suppose its again comparitive given a different earning / buying power? I currently have a private club membership (all golf included)at a top golf course thats costing me 1.5% of my after tax income on a monthly basis. Its a great deal so under “normal” circumstance I would expect to pay about 3%. Thats pure cost of rounds and not gear, balls etc. Hows that compare? Im well educated and in a senior management role so I earn well in a SA context.

 

What are all your favourite courses?

[ewaldbeukes]

4 hours ago, BallerNate said:

The OP’s not replying to posts anymore, probably scared off of Canada by all this East Coast vs West Coast beef...or was it the talk of snow and -50 winters, Lol?

My buddy lives in Calgary and works in some of the harsher areas... didnt break a sweat telling me -40 is perfectly fine haha... will have to get some winter gear thats all! Was soaking with rain today on the course but still wore a pair of shorts!

[ewaldbeukes]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:58 PM, 2bGood said:

Curous what you don't like about the BC weather?

 

I live in the Vancouver area most of the time. There are several courses you can golf 365 days most years as long as you are at sea level (the higher elevations see a few days of snow each year).

 

If you are worried about rain out here you need to study the micro climates of the Vancouver area as the closer you get to the mountains the more rain you will get. One suburb furthest from the mountains gets 900mm rain per year and closest gets 2,341mm. For reference Joe-burg gets on average 723mm of rain. 

 

The great thing about Vancouver is you golf and ski in the same day if you want. But it does not get very hot in the summer or very cold in the winter, so if you do like more extreme weather it not a great place to be. 

My wife isn’t a massive fan of the constant rain, and neither am I to be fair. Cape Town and Joburg get between 700-900mm a year. But I like your insight into some suburbs vs others - definitely some food for thought. BC looks beautiful.

[2bGood]

3 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

My wife isn’t a massive fan of the constant rain, and neither am I to be fair. Cape Town and Joburg get between 700-900mm a year. But I like your insight into some suburbs vs others - definitely some food for thought. BC looks beautiful.

If you can swing it Victoria is pretty great weatherise (best in Canada for golf).

 

FYI Halifax has slightly more annul rainfall than Vancouver (but less days of rain)

[ewaldbeukes]

Just now, 2bGood said:

If you can swing it Victoria is pretty great weatherise (best in Canada for golf).

 

FYI Halifax has slightly more annul rainfall than Vancouver (but less days of rain)

Yeah its days of rain that im more worries about. If it buckets for 100 days but 265 are good they thats better than a drizzle for 360 days. 
 

Will have a bit of a look at Victoria thanks!

[BallerNate]

50 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Looks like BC needs a bump in the pecking order if I want to golf 9+ months a year... love the fact that East coast is getting such good feedback too.

 

Coat of golf seems relatively expensive vs here but suppose its again comparitive given a different earning / buying power? I currently have a private club membership (all golf included)at a top golf course thats costing me 1.5% of my after tax income on a monthly basis. Its a great deal so under “normal” circumstance I would expect to pay about 3%. Thats pure cost of rounds and not gear, balls etc. Hows that compare?

Yeah, BC is gorgeous and the courses out there look incredible! The main drawbacks with BC are the rain like you mentioned, and the extremely high cost of living. The average cost of a house in Vancouver is $1.29 Million and $1.01 Million in Victoria. Unfortunately it’s similar in Toronto at $1.02 Million. The smaller cities on your list definitely have much lower housing costs.

 

Regarding the cost of golf relative to income, the key word you had there was “after tax”, Lol!! Unfortunately the biggest drawback to Canada is taxation and income tax is in the 35-40% range depending on your tax bracket and 15% tax on goods & services. Property tax is also very high. The benefit to those extremely high taxes are Universal Health Care for everyone, and one of the best educational systems in the World...so pros & cons, but we accept the taxes for high quality of life. 
 

I’m not as familiar on Private courses...just started looking into them yesterday and in my area they’re significantly above my golf budget. The only price that was listed on any website was an initiation fee of $10,000 and an Annual cost of $4,200. Waiting for 2 other Private courses to get back to me. There are lots of Public courses that offer much more affordable options though, and there are extremely nice Public courses here so that’s not an issue.

Edited January 2, 2021 by BallerNate

[Xavier_11]

I live in the South Okanagan and I will put our weather up against anyone. Golf from Early March until Early November every year. From June 1st until September 30th, this place is special. And as mentioned, if you like wine.... You'll love it here.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Xavier_11
spelling

[2bGood]

On 1/2/2021 at 6:02 AM, BallerNate said:

The OP’s not replying to posts anymore, probably scared off of Canada by all this East Coast vs West Coast beef...or was it the talk of snow and -50 winters, Lol?

 

I am more of a Biggie - but I guess I am playing Tupac this time.

[2bGood]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:29 AM, BallerNate said:

Yeah, BC is gorgeous and the courses out there look incredible! The main drawbacks with BC are the rain like you mentioned, and the extremely high cost of living. The average cost of a house in Vancouver is $1.29 Million and $1.01 Million in Victoria. Unfortunately it’s similar in Toronto at $1.02 Million. The smaller cities on your list definitely have much lower housing costs.

 

Regarding the cost of golf relative to income, the key word you had there was “after tax”, Lol!! Unfortunately the biggest drawback to Canada is taxation and income tax is in the 35-40% range depending on your tax bracket and 15% tax on goods & services. Property tax is also very high. The benefit to those extremely high taxes are Universal Health Care for everyone, and one of the best educational systems in the World...so pros & cons, but we accept the taxes for high quality of life. 
 

I’m not as familiar on Private courses...just started looking into them yesterday and in my area they’re significantly above my golf budget. The only price that was listed on any website was an initiation fee of $10,000 and an Annual cost of $4,200. Waiting for 2 other Private courses to get back to me. There are lots of Public courses that offer much more affordable options though, and there are extremely nice Public courses here so that’s not an issue.

In the Vancouver area the private course all have pretty much the same monthly dues regardless of their pedigree - it works out to about $5K per year +-10% paid monthly. On top of that, food minimums etc. The big difference between clubs is initiation fees. I have not checked lately but typically entry fees run from $5K-$60k. With Covid all the private clubs have had huge pressure for memberships so it is actually more like $10K- $60K now with allot of waitlists. All the prices I am threwing out are for the top level memberships that give full access the tee.  Vancouver Island is in about the same range.

Edited January 3, 2021 by 2bGood

[BallerNate]

6 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

In the Vancouver area the private course all have pretty much the same monthly dues regardless of their pedigree - it works out to about $5K per year +-10% paid monthly. On top of that food minimums etc. The big difference between clubs is initiation fees. I have not checked lately but typically entry fees run from $5K-$60k. With Covid all the private clubs have had huge pressure for memberships so the it is actually more like $10K- $60K now with allot of waitlists. All the prices I am threwing out are for the top level members that give full access the tee.  Vancouver Island is in about the same range.

Wow...my wife would kill me if I spent that much on golf!! I make pretty good money, but definitely not on that level...must be nice! 🤑🤑

[2bGood]

Just now, BallerNate said:

Wow...my wife would kill me if I spent that much on golf!! I make pretty good money, but definitely not on that level...must be nice! 🤑🤑

You are not supposed to tell your wife (or mine).

[BallerNate]

5 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

You are not supposed to tell your wife (or mine).

Haha...oh no, my golf fund is top secret for sure...but she might notice $10K-60K missing, we don’t have money flowing that quickly, Lol!! 🤣🤣

[BallerNate]

9 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

You are not supposed to tell your wife (or mine).

[jordan_mccomb]

I think the biggest thing you have to decide on is what kind of lifestyle you want to live. I live in the greater Vancouver area, and like many have said, it is probably the best year round golf climate other then Vancouver Island. As mentioned by @2bGood Tswwassen and South Surrey have way less rain than Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows, North Shore. However, depending on your needs or wants it can be challenging financially.

 

I live in North Surrey and the rain and darkness can wear you down for sure. Seasonal Affective Disorder is real, as from November through March it is often 5+ days a week of full overcast often with rain. And being in the Northern Hemisphere the daylight hours are already short (9am to 4pm through the winter months) even without the very grey days which make it seem even shorter. It is not uncommon to go a full month without any sunshine. However it very rarely drops under 3C and the summer months are probably some of the best weather in North America with access to endless outdoor activities. I have traveled to Europe and have lived and traveled to many cities on the west coast of the US and there truly isn't any other place like Vancouver. It is incredibly beautiful and there is access to pretty much any outdoor or indoor activity you'd want. It is very multi-cultural so if connecting with other South Africans is important to you, it is probably one of the few places in Canada where you can do so.

 

Like I said initially though, choosing the type of lifestyle you want to live will be important. I'm in my mid twenty's and many of my friends are choosing to move out of the lower mainland to the valley, interior, or even out of the province because of living expenses. I don't know what type of jobs you are looking for, your earning power, or how much money you are coming in with, but financially it can be challenging. To buy a detached house in the lower mainland in a decent area you are looking at over a million dollars. If you're okay with a townhouse, you can find some 3-4 bedroom townhouses in nice enough areas for around $700,000. Taxes are high both income and property, strata fees are high, car insurance is pricey, and golf is more expensive then most places in Canada. 

 

If you are someone who wants a nice house with some property, to own a few cars, travel yearly, and maybe have a winter home or cabin you'd have to be earning probably over $250,000/year as a couple. Where as moving to Halifax, Saskatoon, Winnipeg or some other bigger cities in Alberta you could live a similar lifestyle with about half the income. Certain job sectors do get paid very well in greater Vancouver, but the earning potentials in Vancouver are actually not much higher then across the country considering the living cost is way higher. 

[ewaldbeukes]

On 1/4/2021 at 7:50 PM, jordan_mccomb said:

I think the biggest thing you have to decide on is what kind of lifestyle you want to live. I live in the greater Vancouver area, and like many have said, it is probably the best year round golf climate other then Vancouver Island. As mentioned by @2bGood Tswwassen and South Surrey have way less rain than Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows, North Shore. However, depending on your needs or wants it can be challenging financially.

 

I live in North Surrey and the rain and darkness can wear you down for sure. Seasonal Affective Disorder is real, as from November through March it is often 5+ days a week of full overcast often with rain. And being in the Northern Hemisphere the daylight hours are already short (9am to 4pm through the winter months) even without the very grey days which make it seem even shorter. It is not uncommon to go a full month without any sunshine. However it very rarely drops under 3C and the summer months are probably some of the best weather in North America with access to endless outdoor activities. I have traveled to Europe and have lived and traveled to many cities on the west coast of the US and there truly isn't any other place like Vancouver. It is incredibly beautiful and there is access to pretty much any outdoor or indoor activity you'd want. It is very multi-cultural so if connecting with other South Africans is important to you, it is probably one of the few places in Canada where you can do so.

 

Like I said initially though, choosing the type of lifestyle you want to live will be important. I'm in my mid twenty's and many of my friends are choosing to move out of the lower mainland to the valley, interior, or even out of the province because of living expenses. I don't know what type of jobs you are looking for, your earning power, or how much money you are coming in with, but financially it can be challenging. To buy a detached house in the lower mainland in a decent area you are looking at over a million dollars. If you're okay with a townhouse, you can find some 3-4 bedroom townhouses in nice enough areas for around $700,000. Taxes are high both income and property, strata fees are high, car insurance is pricey, and golf is more expensive then most places in Canada. 

 

If you are someone who wants a nice house with some property, to own a few cars, travel yearly, and maybe have a winter home or cabin you'd have to be earning probably over $250,000/year as a couple. Where as moving to Halifax, Saskatoon, Winnipeg or some other bigger cities in Alberta you could live a similar lifestyle with about half the income. Certain job sectors do get paid very well in greater Vancouver, but the earning potentials in Vancouver are actually not much higher then across the country considering the living cost is way higher. 

Really epic that I am getting better insights from my golfing peers on life in Canada than any of the emigration forums!

 

Really going to be a case of where the jobs are available but I am happy with a 45 minute commute each way daily too so hoping we could find work but still live in quieter suburbs / areas. Also, (without coming across as arrogant or assuming) having done my research employment in Canada (and we may have to take a step down in role to build some Canadian experience) but my research shows that we should be able to earn $160k+ and with some experience in Canada probably top out that $250k. But its strange, people always say countries like Canada as so expensive but it does seem that the Purchasing power is stronger across the basket. In SA I sit in that top tax bracket too and with decreasing Purchasing power things are getting "less accessible" so to speak. Again, depends on your lifestyle. We live in a normal 3 bed home, small garden, 1 child, normal cars, no summer home/cabin at this stage etc. So its sounds very promising to hear that in a place like Halifax / outside the major cities it seems possible to build a good life on the type of salary level we will come over on. Keeping in mind, when you emigrate you ultimately always sacrifice some wealth in the short term (cost of moving, giving up assets that appreciate over time etc) to make that move. We also have insanely high tax on everything (cars are taxed almost 100%, fuel is taxed and levied well over 100%, car insurence is relatively cheap but the rate of insurance is also super low so when you have an accident the 3rd party usually isnt insured)... sounds like the only truly expensive thing in Canada relative to SA / Purchasing power might be golf and food? (I love a good steak and try to braai / bbq at least 1-2x a week)

 

Darkness / lack of sun will be my biggest pet peeve but on the flip side your longer days are longer again so that should counter slightly. I think the biggest difference is if you are geare to deal with it ie cold, shorter days, snow etc. Golf on indoor sim / practice areas in winter when the course are closed, twilight golf after work in summer as the days are longer so learning to live with it and make a go of it! But truly a big thank you for all the insights so far, really excited about this and hoping Covid and lockdowns dont scupper our plans to get across! Each year I lose points with my age haha (only 33 though so lets see how it goes!).

[Chanceman]

Just curious as to why you have selected Canada over Australia? Being an Aussie and having lived in Canada, I love both countries so as I say just interested in reasons. eg proximity to US? Golf? (surely not!). Weather? (surely not!). Must be something?

[BallerNate]

7 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Really epic that I am getting better insights from my golfing peers on life in Canada than any of the emigration forums!

 

Really going to be a case of where the jobs are available but I am happy with a 45 minute commute each way daily too so hoping we could find work but still live in quieter suburbs / areas. Also, (without coming across as arrogant or assuming) having done my research employment in Canada (and we may have to take a step down in role to build some Canadian experience) but my research shows that we should be able to earn $160k+ and with some experience in Canada probably top out that $250k. But its strange, people always say countries like Canada as so expensive but it does seem that the Purchasing power is stronger across the basket.

Yeah, with that combined salary range you’ll be fine in any city in Canada...that makes even Toronto, Vancouver, and Victoria workable, but your dollars will definitely stretch farther in a smaller suburb outside those cities or a smaller city like Halifax or Winnipeg etc.

 

For Toronto, your commute time would depend on where you work and where you live, but it might be tough to get a 3 Bedroom detached house with a backyard and have a commute less than 1-1.5 hrs. If you work in Downtown Toronto, you’d probably have to live in a city like Barrie (where I live), Newmarket, Ajax, Oshawa, Brampton etc and either drive or take the GO Train, which put you in the 1.5 hour range each way. In Halifax, Winnipeg, Saskatoon etc, you’re probably looking at commutes more like 15-20 mins and be able to live in a similar type of house/neighbourhood.

 

Other cities in Ontario you may want to look at would be Ottawa (capital city of Canada), Kitchener/Waterloo, and Hamilton too...smaller cities with lower costs of living and decent job markets.

[2bGood]

10 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Just curious as to why you have selected Canada over Australia? Being an Aussie and having lived in Canada, I love both countries so as I say just interested in reasons. eg proximity to US? Golf? (surely not!). Weather? (surely not!). Must be something?

What are you doing lurking in this thread - stop trying to poach our immigrants! 

 

😁

[BallerNate]

12 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Just curious as to why you have selected Canada over Australia? Being an Aussie and having lived in Canada, I love both countries so as I say just interested in reasons. eg proximity to US? Golf? (surely not!). Weather? (surely not!). Must be something?

Hey man, no need to rub in how much better Australia is then Canada...that’s offsides mate, Lol! Right now surrounded by 2 feet of snow, a move to Australia sounds pretty good! 😉

[TheBeerHandle]

Checking in from Victoria here, and it's honestly pretty tough to beat as a golf destination in Canada. If you've got the right gear you can probably play 350 days of the year. There's usually few big storms through the winter that'll keep you off the course but definitely the most mild winters in Canada.

 

We've got a bit of a rain shadow effect from the Olympic Mountains so we're significantly drier than the surrounding areas. Wiki says 600mm of precipitation per year and 2200 sunshine hours which makes for pretty ideal golf weather.

 

Having moved here from Calgary, another big difference that's rarely talked about is just how much nicer the summers are on the Island. You're going to get big rain/thunderstorms elsewhere in Canada that'll keep you off the course on summer days, whereas the West Coast is pretty much guaranteed 20ish degree weather everyday. June through Sept you don't even really need to check the weather forecast.

 

The only big downside here is house prices. But, if you don't think you can make Victoria work pricewise, you can always go up the Island though and get a lot of the same perks for a bit less $.

 

 

[BallerNate]

18 hours ago, TheBeerHandle said:

Checking in from Victoria here, and it's honestly pretty tough to beat as a golf destination in Canada. If you've got the right gear you can probably play 350 days of the year. There's usually few big storms through the winter that'll keep you off the course but definitely the most mild winters in Canada.

 

We've got a bit of a rain shadow effect from the Olympic Mountains so we're significantly drier than the surrounding areas. Wiki says 600mm of precipitation per year and 2200 sunshine hours which makes for pretty ideal golf weather.

 

Having moved here from Calgary, another big difference that's rarely talked about is just how much nicer the summers are on the Island. You're going to get big rain/thunderstorms elsewhere in Canada that'll keep you off the course on summer days, whereas the West Coast is pretty much guaranteed 20ish degree weather everyday. June through Sept you don't even really need to check the weather forecast.

 

The only big downside here is house prices. But, if you don't think you can make Victoria work pricewise, you can always go up the Island though and get a lot of the same perks for a bit less $.

 

 

Yeah, Victoria and Vancouver Island are gorgeous! Visited for the first time last Summer and was blown away for sure. I’ve travelled all over Canada, and I would say the Top 3 most beautiful places I’ve seen were Banff, Victoria, and Halifax...if I had no family ties and could move anywhere in the Country it would probably be to one of those 3 places!

[Chanceman]

And of course one of the big advantages of Vancouver or Victoria is that you can drop down to Bandon from time to time!!

[Bad9]

10 hours ago, Chanceman said:

And of course one of the big advantages of Vancouver or Victoria is that you can drop down to Bandon from time to time!!

Cabot Links/Cliffs is a 4hr drive from Halifax.

[BallerNate]

3 hours ago, Bad9 said:

Cabot Links/Cliffs is a 4hr drive from Halifax.

Just checked the rates at Cabot Links...$345-$385 for Non-Resort golfers during peak season!! 😳😳😳

 

Don’t know how many rounds I’d be getting in there if I lived in Scotia...holy smokes!!

[Bad9]

5 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Just checked the rates at Cabot Links...$345-$385 for Non-Resort golfers during peak season!! 😳😳😳

 

Don’t know how many rounds I’d be getting in there if I lived in Scotia...holy smokes!!

I've gone three times, none of which was during peak season and stayed at the resort. Still eye bleedingly expensive. The place is spectacular though and I'm not sorry I went and will go again. My wife, a non golfer, even thought it was awesome.

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, Bad9 said:

Cabot Links/Cliffs is a 4hr drive from Halifax.

Beat me to it. 

 

Wondering out loud what the best Canadian location to live would be in order to have access to the most 'word class' golf courses?

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by 2bGood

[Bad9]

4 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Beat me to it. 

 

Wondering out loud why the best Canadian location to live would be in oder to have access to the most 'word class' golf courses?

 

 

Depending upon which part of Halifax its probably closer to a 3hr drive than 4.

[BallerNate]

28 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

I've gone three times, none of which was during peak season and stayed at the resort. Still eye bleedingly expensive. The place is spectacular though and I'm not sorry I went and will go again. My wife, a non golfer, even thought it was awesome.

It does look incredible for sure! I guess as a once a year splurge to treat yourself it would be pretty awesome, and definitely a bonus if the wife loves it too.

[Phireside]

8 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Beat me to it. 

 

Wondering out loud what the best Canadian location to live would be in order to have access to the most 'word class' golf courses?

 

 

Not sure what the definition of world class would be, but Victoria/Vancouver could be a contender. Great courses in the region and on the island, those in Vancouver, Whistler, Okanogan, Washington state, Oregon, and could get to the Bay area in a 14 hour drive (I know because I did it straight down in my youth).