Kids who skip on tournaments all the time.

[tiger1873]

I am just asking because  I am sort of curious.

 

We all know reasons kids have to drop out or withdraw from tournaments. It happens all the time but some kids seem to have a habit of never showing up. I am not talking about the many legitimate reasons that makes kids miss a tournament.  What puzzles me why same parents would pay for a lot tournament feesand thier kids never shows up on tee on a regular basis. A lot time the tournament officials are even looking for them.

 

I am guessing these kids or parents just don't care  just seems like a lot of money to throw away if your kid doesn't play tournaments entered.

 

Like I said just curious why you enter a tournament and pay a few hundred $$$ and not be motivated to show up.

 

I am guessing the kids are not very motivated to play and just don't like going.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by tiger1873

[leezer99]

There's a kid my son plays with that comes from a rich family.  They sign up for everything and show up to about half of the events they are in.  Sometimes the mom remembers to cancel and sometimes she doesn't.  They got money and don't care.

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

I am just asking because  I am sort of curious.

 

We all know reasons kids have to drop out or withdraw from tournaments. It happens all the time but some kids seem to have a habit of never showing up. I am not talking about the many legitimate reasons that makes kids miss a tournament.  What puzzles me why same parents would pay for a lot tournament feesand thier kids never shows up on tee on a regular basis. A lot time the tournament officials are even looking for them.

 

I am guessing these kids or parents just don't care  just seems like a lot of money to throw away if your kid doesn't play tournaments entered.

 

Like I said just curious why you enter a tournament and pay a few hundred $$$ and not be motivated to show up.

 

I am guessing the kids are not very motivated to play and just don't like going.

 

 

The parents planned on answering your post, but decided to pass.

[wildcatden]

4 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

I am just asking because  I am sort of curious.

 

We all know reasons kids have to drop out or withdraw from tournaments. It happens all the time but some kids seem to have a habit of never showing up. I am not talking about the many legitimate reasons that makes kids miss a tournament.  What puzzles me why same parents would pay for a lot tournament feesand thier kids never shows up on tee on a regular basis. A lot time the tournament officials are even looking for them.

 

I am guessing these kids or parents just don't care  just seems like a lot of money to throw away if your kid doesn't play tournaments entered.

 

Like I said just curious why you enter a tournament and pay a few hundred $$$ and not be motivated to show up.

 

I am guessing the kids are not very motivated to play and just don't like going.

 

 

 

Other people's means are not my means. It's unfortunate that it happens because some tournaments are full and kids on wait lists don't get in to play.  I wish I had more means and could retire and travel the country (or world) playing golf with my kid.  Instead, I got to grind.

 

[Abh159]

Do these tours your kid is playing on not have any sort of cancellation rules? I get that sometimes people just aren't going to show up and therefore won't get a refund (which they shouldn't), but if it's the same people doing it consistently why are they still allowed to sign up?

 

It seems like you should have a chat with the tour's director especially if this is causing other kids to not be able to play.

[tiger1873]

43 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

Do these tours your kid is playing on not have any sort of cancellation rules? I get that sometimes people just aren't going to show up and therefore won't get a refund (which they shouldn't), but if it's the same people doing it consistently why are they still allowed to sign up?

 

It seems like you should have a chat with the tour's director especially if this is causing other kids to not be able to play.

 

Most tours have cancellation policies.  It's pretty standard that you get refunded or credits issued if you give them enough time.

 

I agree with leezer some people just don't seem to care. I have seen this from all income brackets so it not just wealthy kids. That what makes me think the parents enter their kids but they don't want to play.

 

We are not talking about tournaments like AJGA I do think they kick those kids out. 

 

 

[jholz]

The real question is who are the kids who are consistently not showing up? Are they highly ranked or named players? Or are they just random kids? If the former, you may have some "strength of field" shenanigans going on. If the latter, then probably just lame people. 

[leezer99]

4 hours ago, jholz said:

The real question is who are the kids who are consistently not showing up? Are they highly ranked or named players? Or are they just random kids? If the former, you may have some "strength of field" shenanigans going on. If the latter, then probably just lame people. 

 

Why do you think people travel from Dallas to Wisconsin for Drive, Chip & Putt qualifiers?

[kekoa]

Only issue I have with this are kids on the waitlist who end up not getting to play a tournament because a kid/parent doesn't have the decency to WD ahead of time.  Of course there are emergencies that come up and I get it.   If a tour wants this to stop, just give them two chances then a warning and finally ban them from the tour.  🙂

[tiger1873]

16 hours ago, jholz said:

The real question is who are the kids who are consistently not showing up? Are they highly ranked or named players? Or are they just random kids? If the former, you may have some "strength of field" shenanigans going on. If the latter, then probably just lame people. 

 

Well in some cases there are people who pull out because they're not paired with the right people who understand them .

[darter79]

15 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Why do you think people travel from Dallas to Wisconsin for Drive, Chip & Putt qualifiers?

 

They do it because its an easier path, while an expensive one. A friend of ours qualified by traveling out of state in 2019. 

[jholz]

In pretty much every youth sport, people will try to game the systems a bit to give their child an advantage. I can't speak to golf specifically, but this kind of thing happened with some frequency in ski racing. I get the sense that AJGA and other youth golf organizations use a similar system of points to determine rankings for players spread across the world who may never actually play head-to-head. The points tend to determine opportunity and since they are all just mathematical formulas, they are easily gamed for those who want to do so. Competition organizers would also advertise that they had extremely strong fields to entice more people to enter. Sometimes that competition never showed up.

 

Ultimately, if you have the money and the where with all, a crafty parent can give their child an advantage and crafty event organizers can improve their bottom line. 

 

 

 

 

[Medson]

What kinda tournaments are we talking about here? I think someone has mentioned it’s not AJGA. 

[Dallas]

9 hours ago, kekoa said:

Only issue I have with this are kids on the waitlist who end up not getting to play a tournament because a kid/parent doesn't have the decency to WD ahead of time.  Of course there are emergencies that come up and I get it.   If a tour wants this to stop, just give them two chances then a warning and finally ban them from the tour.  🙂

 

I could not agree with this more. It is frustrating to sit on a wait list only to see a repeat offender no show at a tournament your kid wants to play in.

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Medson said:

What kinda tournaments are we talking about here? I think someone has mentioned it’s not AJGA. 

 

I think it can be pretty much any tournament out there.  AGJA is probably on the very few tours you need to qualify for on pretty much every tournament.  And I think they have strict policies on no shows.

 

I don't think most tours care because they get paid.  It's an enormous waste of money to pay and not show up for tournaments. 

 

Now if we are talking about waitlisted tournaments that full that is really bad and repeat offenders should have a lower priority.

 

 

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, darter79 said:

 

They do it because its an easier path, while an expensive one. A friend of ours qualified by traveling out of state in 2019. 

 

That only works if everyone else stays home. I know of one case where a girl travelled to Montana for a USGA qualifier only to lose and not qualify because a lot parents thought the same thing and entered into their kids into the same qualifier. It ended being one the most competitive qualifiers that year the girl had no chance against who showed up.

 

Could have stayed home and did the local qualifier and had a way better chance and may have even qualified.

Edited December 30, 2020 by tiger1873

[darter79]

5 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

That only works is everyone else stays home. I know of one case where a girl travelled to Montana for a USGA qualifier only to lose and not qualify because a lot parents thought the same thing and entered into the same qualifier so it very competitive the girl had no chance against who showed up.

 

Could have stayed home and did the local qualifier and had a way better chance.

I'm speaking more of DCP level at girls 7-9, I know some who have done that and moved on year after year. Once you get bigger events its a costly risk one I don't quite understand but I can see why some would want to try it. 

[tiger1873]

Just now, darter79 said:

I'm speaking more of DCP level at girls 7-9, I know some who have done that and moved on year after year. Once you get bigger events its a costly risk one I don't quite understand but I can see why some would want to try it. 

 

You correct the younger ages it makes more sense.  Choosing the correct qualifier enter is tough.  At the end of the day a little luck in involved but  If you trying to qualify for say a USGA event a person should stay away from the events that look like they had weak competition the year before.

 

 

[Abh159]

27 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

You correct the younger ages it makes more sense.  Choosing the correct qualifier enter is tough.  At the end of the day a little luck in involved but  If you trying to qualify for say a USGA event a person should stay away from the events that look like they had weak competition the year before.

 

 

 

This reminds me of our US Junior Am qualifiers when I was growing up. We only had one qualifier in our state and only one player got in from it each year. We would always get a ton of kids coming from the surrounding states and even many states over because they thought it would be an easy win. 

 

The joke was always on them though because it was always a kid from our state that made it. They could have easily stayed in their own states which all had multiple qualifiers that had 2+ spots at each of them. 

[Warrior42111]

7 hours ago, jholz said:

In pretty much every youth sport, people will try to game the systems a bit to give their child an advantage. I can't speak to golf specifically, but this kind of thing happened with some frequency in ski racing. I get the sense that AJGA and other youth golf organizations use a similar system of points to determine rankings for players spread across the world who may never actually play head-to-head. The points tend to determine opportunity and since they are all just mathematical formulas, they are easily gamed for those who want to do so. Competition organizers would also advertise that they had extremely strong fields to entice more people to enter. Sometimes that competition never showed up.

 

Ultimately, if you have the money and the where with all, a crafty parent can give their child an advantage and crafty event organizers can improve their bottom line. 

 

 

 

 

I've seen this a decent amount while coaching football. Our league has the basic rule that whatever town / city you start playing on that's the team you continue on until HS unless you move. OF course there are caveats and they get used not as intended. One of the biggest loopholes I've seen is that if a town/city can't field a team in that age group the kids can move to any other team in the langue...fair enough... However there's also the grandfather clause that a player can go back to their original team if enough players are available or stay with their current team. You can also play for the original team if you moved as well. Every summer you see it those few kids will have parents watching the opening practices to see which is better in their minds.

 

As others have stated parents will do what they think is 'best' for their kid regardless of reality. 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:31 PM, tiger1873 said:

 

Most tours have cancellation policies.  It's pretty standard that you get refunded or credits issued if you give them enough time.

 

I agree with leezer some people just don't seem to care. I have seen this from all income brackets so it not just wealthy kids. That what makes me think the parents enter their kids but they don't want to play.

 

We are not talking about tournaments like AJGA I do think they kick those kids out. 

 

 

So it's really not such a big deal?

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

So it's really not such a big deal?

 

I don't think I have ever seen a tournament without a cancellation policy.   It's not a big deal to enter and then have to cancel a few weeks before.   Most people would never enter as many tournaments if you couldn't cancel.

 

What I was talking about is the parents who register their kids then never notify the tournament they can't make it.  If you can't show up at least send a quick email to the tournament director the night before or give them a call in the morning. Most of the time they have a number posted.  It usually the same kids and they miss a lot tournaments.

 

Nothing worse then hearing tournament officials looking for someone who never showed up on the Tee. 

[Abh159]

@tiger1873 and @leezer99 since it seems like the two of you have the most experience with this... what is determining whether or not a kid gets into a tournament or put on a waitlist? I'm familiar with how AJGA works (performance based entry and qualifiers), but I've never heard of other Jr tours using this same criteria. All of the other one's I'm familiar with just take any and all applicants up until the time the field is full.

 

Out of curiosity, are kids being put on a waitlist because they tried to register too late or because they didn't have the performance criteria to gain entry?

[tiger1873]

7 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

@tiger1873 and @leezer99 since it seems like the two of you have the most experience with this... what is determining whether or not a kid gets into a tournament or put on a waitlist? I'm familiar with how AJGA works (performance based entry and qualifiers), but I've never heard of other Jr tours using this same criteria. All of the other one's I'm familiar with just take any and all applicants up until the time the field is full.

 

Out of curiosity, are kids being put on a waitlist because they tried to register too late or because they didn't have the performance criteria to gain entry?

 

This is going to depend on the tournament itself.   some tournaments open up registration until it is full.  Others are lottery and others like AJGA have some sort of qualification involved. 

 

When kids don't show up it takes away from a full field. That is the real issue for most of us. It understandable when kids get hurt and even more when a kid has to drop out during play. Those things happen.   But if you sign up for everything and only show up for half it not really a good thing and not too many like seeing that sort thing.

[leezer99]

4 hours ago, Abh159 said:

@tiger1873 and @leezer99 since it seems like the two of you have the most experience with this... what is determining whether or not a kid gets into a tournament or put on a waitlist? I'm familiar with how AJGA works (performance based entry and qualifiers), but I've never heard of other Jr tours using this same criteria. All of the other one's I'm familiar with just take any and all applicants up until the time the field is full.

 

Out of curiosity, are kids being put on a waitlist because they tried to register too late or because they didn't have the performance criteria to gain entry?

Similar to what Tiger said. Essentially tournaments open up and the waitlist kids just signed up later after the event was full. Trust me, we have events here in California that fill up within minutes of opening. Basically if you’re not logged in and ready to “check out” when it goes live you’re not getting in. A buddy of mine has said he has the entire process down to 13 seconds. 

[MB19]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Similar to what Tiger said. Essentially tournaments open up and the waitlist kids just signed up later after the event was full. Trust me, we have events here in California that fill up within minutes of opening. Basically if you’re not logged in and ready to “check out” when it goes live you’re not getting in. A buddy of mine has said he has the entire process down to 13 seconds. 

This reminds me of when Pearl Jam decided to circumvent Ticketmaster in the mid/late 90s.  It sounds absolutely terrible.

[Medson]

On 12/31/2020 at 2:10 PM, leezer99 said:

Similar to what Tiger said. Essentially tournaments open up and the waitlist kids just signed up later after the event was full. Trust me, we have events here in California that fill up within minutes of opening. Basically if you’re not logged in and ready to “check out” when it goes live you’re not getting in. A buddy of mine has said he has the entire process down to 13 seconds. 

 

Yup. This sounds like what we, overachieving Californian, do. It is the sad reality. 

[sonnygolf]

On 12/30/2020 at 12:50 PM, tiger1873 said:

 

Well in some cases there are people who pull out because they're not paired with the right people who understand them .

 

 

Then these idiots have no place in sports.   In a tournaments you job is to beat the person you are competing with not  make friends