I’m Giving Up on Arccos

[Mookieb10]

After one full year and dumping $900 into Arccos products, I’m absolutely giving up a beaten and frustrated man. I’ve purchased the sensor caps, the grip and the link... it’s all dreadful. It’s a great idea, which is why I’ve spent so much trying to get this to work, but it doesn’t work. Here’s why:

 

1) From minute one, it’s been difficult to actually pair the arccos sensors with one’s phone. I have a modern iPhone with a good camera and have tried to pair the sensors in very good lighting with brand new sensors. Invariably, you will find that anywhere between 2-6 out of the 14 sensors will take ten minutes of attempted pairing. Maybe it will pair in the end, maybe not. 
 

2) If you’ve managed the miracle of pairing all 14 clubs, you will be taking the device out onto the course. On the course, the app is clunky in a couple ways. I will state that with the 13 clubs which are not putter, the app+sensors do pick up precisely which clubs you’ve hit and exactly where they’ve gone. It was annoying to remember to keep the phone i. Your front pocket on every shot, but not to worry, drop another $120 on the link device and that will be cured.  First problem, you will find yourself spending the next two to three holes trying to figure out how to key in the rare but eventual golf events like hitting a second tee ball or taking a drop. Of course you should expect to need to key in this info, but it’s not intuitive. Huge problem number two, the putting function is awful. It has no clue how many strokes you’ve taken and doesn’t have an intuitive way to denote where the flag is. I saw another device where you touch your watch to the flag when you remove your ball from the cup to denote where the flag is. Arccos is nowhere as simple. 
 

3) the caddy/recommendation feature is quite useless in the longer clubs. Let’s say you average 225 yards with you 3 hybrid. The app has no clue how you get that average. You may carry it 150 yards and run it or you may fly it the whole way. You might also get that average by hitting 3/4 balls 200 yards and 1/4 300 yards, so recommending you hit 3h from 225 with a 210 yard forced carry is not helpful. Let’s be honest, this is the least of the problems. With a little mental engagement, you can get around this issue, but it’s still an issue. 
 

I’m really bummed at how poor the execution has been. This product has lead me to get so frustrated with golf... more so than the usual. Do yourself a favor, avoid at all costs... after you buy all my stuff off the bst forum. 
 

feel free to ask any questions. 

[GolfTurkey]

So you don't like it? 🙂

 

I agree that it feels like solid stats software combined with beta level hardware. Re. the putting, the manual input is horrible but doesn't the Link have a feature where you click the button next to the hole to indicate where the pin is? (I have a Link sitting in the cupboard waiting for my hip to recover for its maiden voyage).

[sniper]

I played my first round with Arccos on 12/26 so I don’t have the experience you have. My pairing of clubs was simple and fast...like 2 mins fast. 
 

I had a few issues with putting/locating the flag. I did have an issue where the Link lost where I was on the course and I didn’t realize until the round was over. I had the link covered up so I chalked those issues up to learning experience. 
 

I didn’t use the caddie as I need more rounds.  It looks cool. As far as how you hit your long clubs...run out, fly it in, etc. doesn’t that fall on the player to know their game?

[taskerc]

hey @Mookieb10- I’ve been with Arccos about three years and it has been a journey.

 

1) pairing for me has become effortless BUT the battery in the sensors will die or get weak and I found that could be an issue in newly sealed sensor boxes as well.  The good news was once paired and with a good battery, they stayed paired. I found a way to change the batteries - couldn’t help myself ..... BTW Arccos will usually replace new sensors that are not pairing feee of charge - their support is excellent 

 

2) I think I recall the link has a button you can press to indicate flag position - the link fixed most issues for me . In general I find post round edits are the reality for Arccos and Shotscope especially around penalties and flag positions etc - it ain’t perfect but is better

 

3) the caddie is a guide and probably the least reliable feature - worst case ignore it - best case consult it 

 

I have become a golf data junkie and Arccos was the first real option I found to be able to collect actionable data - it seems like it should be easy but when you see what’s in it all, there is a reasonable degree in complexity in what Arccos is trying to achieve - while I used to have to temper my expectations, now I’m comfortable that it is more helpful than not

 

of course not everyone will find it useful - I did and do - although I find shotscope better at shot detection, simplicity of pairing and some of your other identified concerns, I think it’s especially useful when engaging on a coaching plan - data informs 

 

 

 

[95124hacker]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Guess I’ll stick to my handwritten notes on the scorecard. My problem is consistency across all clubs anyway.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I had a limited trial with a acrros thing that screwed in the driver grip... it was ok but found it more annoying about what your saying with phone in pocket then make sure its on then blah blah... your right in your rant in everyway so dont second guess yourself. Its definetly a imperfect technology. Mostly ment to just say oh hey look at me im a new shiny golf thingy that might help you but takes your cash and gives you  problems instead lol. 

[Green Valley]

1 hour ago, Mookieb10 said:

After one full year and dumping $900 into Arccos products, I’m absolutely giving up a beaten and frustrated man. I’ve purchased the sensor caps, the grip and the link... it’s all dreadful. It’s a great idea, which is why I’ve spent so much trying to get this to work, but it doesn’t work. Here’s why:

 

1) From minute one, it’s been difficult to actually pair the arccos sensors with one’s phone. I have a modern iPhone with a good camera and have tried to pair the sensors in very good lighting with brand new sensors. Invariably, you will find that anywhere between 2-6 out of the 14 sensors will take ten minutes of attempted pairing. Maybe it will pair in the end, maybe not. 
 

2) If you’ve managed the miracle of pairing all 14 clubs, you will be taking the device out onto the course. On the course, the app is clunky in a couple ways. I will state that with the 13 clubs which are not putter, the app+sensors do pick up precisely which clubs you’ve hit and exactly where they’ve gone. It was annoying to remember to keep the phone i. Your front pocket on every shot, but not to worry, drop another $120 on the link device and that will be cured.  First problem, you will find yourself spending the next two to three holes trying to figure out how to key in the rare but eventual golf events like hitting a second tee ball or taking a drop. Of course you should expect to need to key in this info, but it’s not intuitive. Huge problem number two, the putting function is awful. It has no clue how many strokes you’ve taken and doesn’t have an intuitive way to denote where the flag is. I saw another device where you touch your watch to the flag when you remove your ball from the cup to denote where the flag is. Arccos is nowhere as simple. 
 

3) the caddy/recommendation feature is quite useless in the longer clubs. Let’s say you average 225 yards with you 3 hybrid. The app has no clue how you get that average. You may carry it 150 yards and run it or you may fly it the whole way. You might also get that average by hitting 3/4 balls 200 yards and 1/4 300 yards, so recommending you hit 3h from 225 with a 210 yard forced carry is not helpful. Let’s be honest, this is the least of the problems. With a little mental engagement, you can get around this issue, but it’s still an issue. 
 

I’m really bummed at how poor the execution has been. This product has lead me to get so frustrated with golf... more so than the usual. Do yourself a favor, avoid at all costs... after you buy all my stuff off the bst forum. 
 

feel free to ask any questions. 

 

I had Game golf when it first came out. Terrible experience with it. Never really worked. 

 

I was leaning towards this device just because major oems are collaborating with this company. 

 

Thanks for the write up. Exactly what I needed to read and hear. 

[LeftyMatt24]

The one thing I’ll say about Arccos is the strokes gained analysis. You can set it to a goal handicap and it shows you where you need to work on. That part is good in my mind but I found the tracking is very close to my Garmin fénix 6x, like within a yard or so. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by LeftyMatt24

[PuffyC]

I’m a big Arccos fan, been using it for about a year now, and these either weren’t problems for me or I never realized they should be problems. I’ve never had a problem linking with my iPhone, I keep my phone in my pocket all the time anyway, and it never occurred to me to care where the flag was located. I just want to see my real distances, track my stats like GIR and putts per round, etc. I’ve also never had any problems with it counting putts or compensating for hitting a 2nd ball. Maybe I’m just blessed with good luck? 

[Arlin964]

I’m on the other side of the fence from the OP. I’ve had nothing but great experience with my arccos for over a year. 
 

Sensors paired easily and within a couple minutes with an iPhone Xs. 
 

On course experience has also been pretty seamless. I don’t mind keeping my phone in my pocket, so that’s not a huge sticking point for me. Yes, it requires the occasional edit like adding a penalty stroke or adding a shot. It seems reasonably intuitive to do that. 
 

Setting the flag location - you can easily do it by clicking on the “green” to bring a zoomed view, then just click the “set location” button and you’re done. Otherwise you can get it close enough by dragging to the location. 
 

Any edits required I do right before teeing up at the next hole. Truly it doesn’t take me longer than 30 seconds. 
 

I wanted to add my anecdotal experience too in case people use this thread to make a buying decision. I will be happy to pay the $100 fee again for another year when it comes up. 

[steventoo]

I've been using mine for about 12 months with a very different experience to the OP. Pairing was easy with an iPhone 7, then I upgraded to an 11 Pro and re-paired without any trouble. I keep my phone in my front left pocket to avoid losing it and Arccos is pretty good at picking up shots and very accurate in terms of GPS position. I only need to edit occasionally, mostly adding putts but this might change with my new putter if I can find the putter sensor in my bag (I took it out but didn't re-install it - whoops).

 

The biggest problem is that there's no easy way I've found to play a composite or altered course layout, like when we're renovating a green or fairway and split a long par 5 into a par 4 and a par 3. So those rounds aren't the most accurate (the skipped hole and the two replacements) but it's relatively straightforward to skip those holes if I remember (the skipped hole and the tee of the split par 5).

 

Otherwise, it works really well for me. The stats are great.

Edited December 31, 2020 by steventoo
fat fingers - 3 is not 5

[MysteryV]

Have to agree with the last two posters for the most part.

- Pairing is cake

- Accuracy and club recognition has been good (much better than Shotscope which I used for quite a while)

- The app takes a little getting used to - but is pretty easy to use on course (though to be honest - I haven't marked a pin yet as I'd overlooked that functionality)

 

My issues with Arccos come mostly from not knowing exactly what they do on the back end.  I have questions like:

- What shots are actually counted for average / range?  Clearly it's not all of them - but what's the math?

- How confident can we be with the hcp comparisons?  For example, for chips within 25 yards - if you stub one 4 yards, you have to manually input that stroke - as strokes within 5 yards are not registered, and are considered "practice strokes".  How confident are we that people are actually inputting those to compare against?  Same with putting as putts seem to default to the expected strokes from a specific spot.

 

There are a couple other things that have me questioning - but those are the main two points.

 

That said - Arccos is a really good piece of kit for the most part - and highly recommended for folks who like stats. 

[ajlacombe]

Wow - many things here, and everyone has different experiences with Arccos.  A numbered list seems appropriate 🙂 

1. The App is crap for the most part - very clunky and not at all intuitive.
2. Setting the pin can be done from the app with a tiny [Pin] button in the center of that page.  There is no way you would guess that.  You can also do it from the Link button, but the Link button does not give you much feedback that you actually pressed it and you will tend to press it WAY too hard.
3. Pairing: is totally frustrating - some of them go so fast you do not even realize they paired - others are a PITA and you waste a lot of time pairing them.
4. Clubs - I think they need work on which clubs you have.  If you are a club ho (not me, just saying for friends 🙂 ), you need to be able to have a wide range of clubs and the app should just know which clubs you have in the bag without having to define that they are with you.  also retaining those stats.
5. Shot tracking with phone - I think it is crap and like I have posted in other threads, I got better shot tracking with the phone in an outer sleeve of my bag - make sense since your pocket fabric is blocking the mic(s).
6. Link - I think it is great - other than not knowing what kind of charge it has.  A series of 4 LEDs would be cool - press the button and they light up indicating the charge.  Overall the Link is great IMO
7. Caddie - I like it, but agree that it can get weird especially if there is a do-it-all club, like my 54º wedge, or my 22º hybrid.  I use the hybrid to hit all kinds of shots and those should be tossed from the distance suggestion when they are far enough off of your normal shot distance - in other words eliminate the outliers from the distance. With my wedge I chip , hit it full and everything in between, so my max distance with it is off, but you just have to know what to do with those clubs.  I think it could use some work.

Overall I really like Arccos, but agree that it needs a lot of work in all areas.  I have said it many times, they need a heavy duty testing team or a focus group that keeps a discussion going (like this one) where users give them feedback and ideas on how to improve their product.  It could be an awesome tool if they take improvement seriously.

[NCDuffer]

I was leery of Arccos cost and Shotscope from everything I read, but I wanted the stats.  I’m using Golf Pad and will stick with it.  The app is well laid out and you can track by phone. Phone does need to be on you though.  If you upgrade you can use your smart watch and leave the phone in the bag.  It’s worked well for me over the last few months, so for Christmas I received their Tags.  You can load and use the app for free, but if you email them they’ll let you trial the upgrade for free to see if it will work for you.

[phil75070]

18 hours ago, NCDuffer said:

I was leery of Arccos cost and Shotscope from everything I read, but I wanted the stats.  I’m using Golf Pad and will stick with it.  The app is well laid out and you can track by phone. Phone does need to be on you though.  If you upgrade you can use your smart watch and leave the phone in the bag.  It’s worked well for me over the last few months, so for Christmas I received their Tags.  You can load and use the app for free, but if you email them they’ll let you trial the upgrade for free to see if it will work for you.

Golf Pad really didn't work out for me. I tried their Tags and getting the tags recognized by tapping the phone was hit and miss for me. I didn't mind the idea of having the phone in my pocket and having to tap the phone as I came from Game Golf where the tags had to be tapped on the belt worn device.

I have had Shot Scope V3 since it became available in mid July and have not experienced any of the problems others seem to have - no missing shots, no extra shots. The biggest issue I have experienced with the V3 is GPS accuracy as it relates to pin position on the greens - I do have to edit several of them each round which is better than having to edit every one after a round using Game Golf which did not have that capability.

[taskerc]

On 12/31/2020 at 10:57 AM, ajlacombe said:

Wow - many things here, and everyone has different experiences with Arccos.  A numbered list seems appropriate 🙂 

1. The App is crap for the most part - very clunky and not at all intuitive.
2. Setting the pin can be done from the app with a tiny [Pin] button in the center of that page.  There is no way you would guess that.  You can also do it from the Link button, but the Link button does not give you much feedback that you actually pressed it and you will tend to press it WAY too hard.
3. Pairing: is totally frustrating - some of them go so fast you do not even realize they paired - others are a PITA and you waste a lot of time pairing them.
4. Clubs - I think they need work on which clubs you have.  If you are a club ho (not me, just saying for friends 🙂 ), you need to be able to have a wide range of clubs and the app should just know which clubs you have in the bag without having to define that they are with you.  also retaining those stats.
5. Shot tracking with phone - I think it is crap and like I have posted in other threads, I got better shot tracking with the phone in an outer sleeve of my bag - make sense since your pocket fabric is blocking the mic(s).
6. Link - I think it is great - other than not knowing what kind of charge it has.  A series of 4 LEDs would be cool - press the button and they light up indicating the charge.  Overall the Link is great IMO
7. Caddie - I like it, but agree that it can get weird especially if there is a do-it-all club, like my 54º wedge, or my 22º hybrid.  I use the hybrid to hit all kinds of shots and those should be tossed from the distance suggestion when they are far enough off of your normal shot distance - in other words eliminate the outliers from the distance. With my wedge I chip , hit it full and everything in between, so my max distance with it is off, but you just have to know what to do with those clubs.  I think it could use some work.

Overall I really like Arccos, but agree that it needs a lot of work in all areas.  I have said it many times, they need a heavy duty testing team or a focus group that keeps a discussion going (like this one) where users give them feedback and ideas on how to improve their product.  It could be an awesome tool if they take improvement seriously.

Also, I think i read that if someone has marked a pin in the course you are playing that day, it’s available as a marked pin location for other players - haven’t verified that 

[taskerc]

On 12/31/2020 at 10:57 AM, ajlacombe said:

Overall I really like Arccos, but agree that it needs a lot of work in all areas.  I have said it many times, they need a heavy duty testing team or a focus group

When I got my link last year I encountered a number of issues - maybe too many since they invited me to be in the test group - so I get early copies of the app for testing and evaluation- so they are listening and actively collecting feedback - it lines up with their overall strong golfer support model for the products - and I confess, Shotscope support is also exceptional...

[braincramp52]

I've thought numerous times about buying into the Arccos system. But, when I really think about it, golf is frustrating enough without adding phone apps and other crap into the picture. I'll just keep my golf in my head. If it involves tech and me, I lose every time. 😁

[j_giesler]

I’ve had no issues pairing with an iPhone 7 Plus. I have it paired to my Apple Watch for most rounds but have gotten used to having my phone in my pocket because the GPS functionality is so good.

[jg1166]

8 hours ago, taskerc said:

Also, I think i read that if someone has marked a pin in the course you are playing that day, it’s available as a marked pin location for other players - haven’t verified that 

Yes, this is true, there are a number f members at the club I play at that use Arccos and lucky for me, most tee off before me on my regular Aturday round and all the pins are marked as I play my round

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

8 hours ago, braincramp52 said:

I've thought numerous times about buying into the Arccos system. But, when I really think about it, golf is frustrating enough without adding phone apps and other crap into the picture. I'll just keep my golf in my head. If it involves tech and me, I lose every time. 😁

We’re not really contributing to the discussion here, but I feel the same. I’m a sucker for statistics, but have abandoned using The Grint while playing, as I want to be relaxed and can focus better on my game. I still input my numbers, after the round. 
Following this discussion, as I’d LOVE to use something like Arccos once it’s 99.9% hassle free during the round. Might be a couple years. 

[Circaflex]

Huge Arccos fan here, you can validate this through my post history; however I too am taking a break. Recently, I have lost all of my game, literally it is like I forgot how to swing a golf club and Arccos has been more hassle than its been worth during this time. I never noticed the feature before but if you chunk a chip or shot and hit again within a small range, it will only count one shot (thinking the other was a practice or something) and overall just having to make some corrections sometimes while playing piss-poor hasnt been fun. My buddies use Grint for skins games and what not, but I dont like doing any of that inputting during rounds. I will return to Arcoss at some point, but I see both sides.

[Sons_of_Pitches]

I am a former Arccos user and loved the data analytics it provided but just didn't like the extra weight the sensors added to the club (7g).  Because of that I switched over to Shot Scope v3 and its been OK but the data analytics isn't as good as Arccos at this time.  I found shot detection for both platforms to be decent with not much editing having to be done.  However, I have heard good things about the V1 Game App.  From the reviews it looks as though it will provide as good, if not better, data analytics as Arccos.  I have not had a chance to use on the course yet but it looks promising and doesn't require any sensores.  It also has strokes gained. I am looking forward to giving this one a go as it looks promising.

[Mookieb10]

Lots of helpful points here which is ultimately why this community exists. It’s evident that most of us like the concept. 
 

I’ll probably end up giving it another try with some of the tips read here. I’ll start by sending back the weak sensors so that doesn’t become a problem again. It also sounds like the Link helps with some of my bigger gripes. 

[ajlacombe]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:43 AM, taskerc said:

Also, I think i read that if someone has marked a pin in the course you are playing that day, it’s available as a marked pin location for other players - haven’t verified that 

I wondered if that was right.  That would be very cool - it would be nice if they showed that on the app so I would not have to be harassed about marking its location 🙂 

[ajlacombe]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:11 PM, Sons_of_Pitches said:

I am a former Arccos user and loved the data analytics it provided but just didn't like the extra weight the sensors added to the club (7g).  Because of that I switched over to Shot Scope v3 and its been OK but the data analytics isn't as good as Arccos at this time.  I found shot detection for both platforms to be decent with not much editing having to be done.  However, I have heard good things about the V1 Game App.  From the reviews it looks as though it will provide as good, if not better, data analytics as Arccos.  I have not had a chance to use on the course yet but it looks promising and doesn't require any sensores.  It also has strokes gained. I am looking forward to giving this one a go as it looks promising.

So this is an interesting comment.  The weight would increase swing weight by a little less than 2 points.  I have not tested with and without to see if I can feel it or not (I have to think I could).

 

The other issue is feeling it if you grip the club towards the end of the grip.  I find myself tightening them all the time because of that..

 

Has there ever been an app that used voice to detect shots?  Where you just say (7 iron).  I would think that could work pretty easily - even if the phone was in your pocket or bag.  It would not work for the green if it was in your bag, but for Arccos they are only tracking first putt length so you could easily say (2 putts, 22 feet) meaning number of putts and the first putt length.

[ajlacombe]

Well being who I am, I tested with and without the sensors just now.  I have two very similar iron sets and one has the sensors and the other does not.  I hit both and could tell a difference so I puled the sensor from my current set and have to say I could definitely tell the difference.

 

I think the min issue for me is that I like to grip right at the grip cap and the sensor is not a great feel for me, but the weight is definitely noticeable for me.  After you play a ton of rounds with the system, you know how far you hit the clubs - the ball is the caddie feature of the app IMO.  You can just play with no sensors and use the app, and move the hole you are playing.

 

I might have to give that a whirl at some point.

[MysteryV]

On 1/2/2021 at 5:12 PM, Circaflex said:

Huge Arccos fan here, you can validate this through my post history; however I too am taking a break. Recently, I have lost all of my game, literally it is like I forgot how to swing a golf club and Arccos has been more hassle than its been worth during this time. I never noticed the feature before but if you chunk a chip or shot and hit again within a small range, it will only count one shot (thinking the other was a practice or something) and overall just having to make some corrections sometimes while playing piss-poor hasnt been fun. My buddies use Grint for skins games and what not, but I dont like doing any of that inputting during rounds. I will return to Arcoss at some point, but I see both sides.

 

I mentioned this as being one place where I think the Arccos strokes gained data may be waaay off.  People just miss this a decent amount of the time out of frustration - which makes short game stats suspect.  Same with putts inside of 10 feet.  There are  A LOT of people who give themselves every 3 footer - which also makes the data suspect.

 

The issue for me continues to be that the average yardages just aren't reliable.  If you play every round using the caddie recommendations - you're going blast the ball over several greens.  There's just no good way for them to factor in 150 yard punch out shots with a 5i or hybrid.

 

They also include drives that hit something in the average which makes the average data pretty bad.  Playing at a tree lined course - I hit manage to have a 150 - 220 yard tree ball off the tee with my driver a time (or two - or three 😭) per round - and Arccos doesn't identify and throw those out.  It's a major miss imo.

 

In general, I love the idea behind Arccos - but it certainly has some areas where it could be MUCH better.

 

That said - it's totally worth it to be able to track your long drives alone.  😄

[Sons_of_Pitches]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:11 PM, ajlacombe said:

Well being who I am, I tested with and without the sensors just now.  I have two very similar iron sets and one has the sensors and the other does not.  I hit both and could tell a difference so I puled the sensor from my current set and have to say I could definitely tell the difference.

 

I think the min issue for me is that I like to grip right at the grip cap and the sensor is not a great feel for me, but the weight is definitely noticeable for me.  After you play a ton of rounds with the system, you know how far you hit the clubs - the ball is the caddie feature of the app IMO.  You can just play with no sensors and use the app, and move the hole you are playing.

 

I might have to give that a whirl at some point.

Give the V1 Game App a shot. It does the same thing as Arccos and ShotScope but w/o the need for sensors.  I have been using it for two rounds now and so far I am pretty satisfied with it.  It has strokes gained stats and is easy to use once you get the hang of it. 

[ajlacombe]

12 hours ago, Sons_of_Pitches said:

Give the V1 Game App a shot. It does the same thing as Arccos and ShotScope but w/o the need for sensors.  I have been using it for two rounds now and so far I am pretty satisfied with it.  It has strokes gained stats and is easy to use once you get the hang of it. 

So how does it work?  What do you do on the course?

 

It looks just like the Arccos app.  I assume you have to set the club that you are hitting for each shot?

 

Thanks.  I wonder how they make any money with this app...