Club Champion vs Big Box

[CoachSmith36]

I have scheduled 2 fittings at my local club champion store. I have always wanted a putter fitting and am doing that on Saturday. I have also been in the market for new irons. I had scheduled an iron and wedge fitting next Saturday. The more I read other forums, I am getting nervous about the price of irons and wedges at a place like club champion. Would I be better off going to a local mom and pop golf store or a place like PGA SuperStore for the irons that would not charge for the fitting? I currently play AP2s fitted at a Titleist Thursday and have always wondered if I would benefit from a big fitting at a place like Club Champion.

I was curious what other peoples experience had been.

[gsrjc]

The price of the standard equipment is the same as a big box unless you find more exotic shafts that work for your swing. That’s where CC is different because they can see what equipment works for your swing. My recommendation would be to try all that you want and be up front with the fitter if price is an issue. Then they won’t have you try the really expensive shafts. 

[NorthStar7]

I had a putter fitting at CC last year.  It was a positive experience. I think putter fittings may be the quickest way to see results in your game overall. 
 

My philosophy with CC is to treat it as an information gathering experience, not a club purchase.  I always buy elsewhere. In the case of irons, I found exactly what I was fit for on eBay for half the price CC quoted. 
 

[Arlin964]

Definitely do the fittings at CC. My experience has been that they dive a bit deeper into the data than the big box stores do. Unless you specifically paid for a fitting at GG, PGATSS, etc. 

 

Then see what prices they give you at CC. If you’re comfortable with it, go ahead and purchase. Or take the data and assemble your bag piece by piece with lower prices elsewhere. 
 

The fitting itself is something I enjoy from time to time, just so that I can learn. For example, I always assumed my driver swing speed was topping out around 100. Well I reviewed this at my last fitting (it was a fairway wood fitting, not even driver) because the fitter had some extra time. I learned I was way wrong, and that I averaged 106, topping out around 110. That’s something that may change how I view certain parts of my game/abilities/tendencies. Maybe you’ll learn something you didn’t expect going in to it. 

[SmashGolfBall]

Fitting wise, Club champion is definitely better than Golf Galaxy, PGA super store or other big stores. You can get all the specs there and later on build or order the club from other sources that may offer a better price.

[ProjectX]

As others have said I find Club Champion to be a great experience for fact finding missions and trying stuff out that most of the big box stores don't carry. I never buy anything there. I just take the specs to discount dan's afterward and save a ton of money. A good example is my new set of TSi woods. If I bought my 4 wood and 7 wood through CC would've been over $600 each. Through Discount Dan's it was $380 spec'd out the exact same. CC is as good as anyone on selection but is as bad as anyone on price. Even after paying for my fitting I'm still on top by a lot.

[CoachSmith36]

37 minutes ago, ProjectX said:

As others have said I find Club Champion to be a great experience for fact finding missions and trying stuff out that most of the big box stores don't carry. I never buy anything there. I just take the specs to discount dan's afterward and save a ton of money. A good example is my new set of TSi woods. If I bought my 4 wood and 7 wood through CC would've been over $600 each. Through Discount Dan's it was $380 spec'd out the exact same. CC is as good as anyone on selection but is as bad as anyone on price. Even after paying for my fitting I'm still on top by a lot.

Is the reason for the big difference in the price being that they charge extra since they are the ones building the club? This might be a dumb question but I have never paid for a fitting before. I usually just did a lot of research and went with the clubs I felt would work the best.

[ProjectX]

At Club Champion you basically pay full price for the Club and Full Price for the shaft as though you bought them individually. Discount Dan's drop ships directly from the manufacturer and in this instance Titleist doesn't charge full price for the upgraded shaft. The catch is that Titleist doesn't stock every shaft on the market. So if you get fit into a shaft that you can't order directly from Titleist, or any other manufacturer for that matter, then my method won't work. But the most Titleist will charge your for a top end shaft is usually about $250 where CC will charge you $400 for the same shaft.

 

Outside of that Discount Dan's sells clubs cheaper than the rest of retailers because they don't advertise their pricing. You have to call or email for a price. So you pay less, get free shipping and no sales tax because they are in Oregon. I get almost everything from Dan's. Best deal in the game for us club ho's.

[Jwin323]

The thing to be aware of is how your clubs are built. I had my clubs fit and built by Cool Clubs. They have the same pricing as Club Champion. The difference between when places like these build versus taking your specs and ordering from a retailer or OEM is your are getting builds where the heads and shafts are weight sorted, frequency matched and pured shafts, lies and lofts checked and adjusted, custom wrap on your grips, hot melting,you get the idea. If all of these things matter to you than you’re going to pay for it. If not, take your specs and shop the best price.

[pinestreetgolf]

1 hour ago, ProjectX said:

At Club Champion you basically pay full price for the Club and Full Price for the shaft as though you bought them individually. Discount Dan's drop ships directly from the manufacturer and in this instance Titleist doesn't charge full price for the upgraded shaft. The catch is that Titleist doesn't stock every shaft on the market. So if you get fit into a shaft that you can't order directly from Titleist, or any other manufacturer for that matter, then my method won't work. But the most Titleist will charge your for a top end shaft is usually about $250 where CC will charge you $400 for the same shaft.

 

Outside of that Discount Dan's sells clubs cheaper than the rest of retailers because they don't advertise their pricing. You have to call or email for a price. So you pay less, get free shipping and no sales tax because they are in Oregon. I get almost everything from Dan's. Best deal in the game for us club ho's.

 

This assumes that you are not dealing with a shaft brand that makes different shafts for the OEMs than they sell to the aftermarket.  There are several (most recently the Atmos, but there have been many) that are assembled in Vietnam for Titleist upgrades and assembled in the USA for custom builds like CC.  Whether or not that is the "same shaft" is up to the consumer I suppose.

 

99% of the time if there is a price difference it isn't the same shaft, its two rods that share a paint job.

Edited January 1, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[sniper]

Another option is is to do the CC fitting then check out someone like Will Peoples. You’d be getting great build quality but saving over CC prices. 

[bluedot]

You are really asking three different questions here.

 

1. How much you or any other golfer will benefit from a fitting session depends on how close your current clubs are to being correctly fitted, and the quality of the fitting session itself.  There is just no way for there to be a blanket answer to this, and you might want to think in advance of ANY fitting session about what your goals and expectations for the session are.  And I think you have to allow for the possibility that the differences are going to be marginal, and then decide whether or not that's worth it to you.  If I go to a driver fitting and the fitter can get me 8-10 yards with no loss of dispersion, I'm buying the club.  But I have some buddies who are very serious, competitive golfers who wouldn't; that's a personal decision.

 

2.  You have a much better chance at getting a "quality" fit at a dedicated fitting facility, whether it's a Club Champion franchise or an independent fitter, than you do at a big box store.  That said, there are guys working in big box stores that are good club fitters, but you have to have some way of knowing who they are in advance, and that's not necessarily easy.  Walking into a big box store and taking pot luck could land you with somebody who just isn't qualified or interested, and that just isn't going to happen at a dedicated fitting facility.

 

3. The question of cost/value is one that nobody can answer for you.  Club Champion and other similar outfits are expensive, no doubt about it, and there are cheaper ways to get a quality fitting session IF you can find them.  Is what CC charges worth it?  The answer depends on solely on what you are comfortable with.  Again, it is to me; I'm going to use the clubs that I get fitted to for several years until either something in my game changes or something new with a possibility for improvement comes along, so my "per round" cost from fitting is pretty low.  But that's NOT the answer for everybody; you just have to decided that for yourself.

[Badshaft]

I was fitted at CC and it was positive - Yes more expensive than buying online or off ebay, but worth it to me -

The thing about CC is they have nearly all the club heads and shafts on the market to try

I would have never picked the shaft that I ended up with in the end -

 

 

[CallawayLefty]

Club Champion does decent fittings.  I get goofy numbers sometimes off trackman indoors,  but it’s not really their fault and you can still tell where things relatively compare to one another.  
 

 But their club pricing is just INSANE.  I hate that their fitters also get commissions because it makes them super aggressive and/or “sob story” at the end of the fitting.  And the idea that you’re fitting isn’t even credited when you buy is just crazy.  You’re paying, for example, a $1500 up charge for a set of irons but don’t even get your $100 fitting credited?

 

I think it’s for people who assume there is more magic to club fitting than their really is.  Most materials (shafts, grips, heads, etc) are so close on specs that no mortal human could tell you any difference.  And my guess is they don’t actually do all the things noted above - like weight sorting and frequency matching...the second one especially just doesn’t happen and I don’t care what anyone says.  The only way to build to frequency is parallel tip shafts and custom cutting by someone who really knows what the hell they’re doing...again not from club champion selling you a “super special” set of taper tip project x or whatever.  Puring shafts is of highly speculative value (and oh by the way, they charge you $30 extra for it).  The rest is just measuring and cutting - not rocket science.

 

So where do you end up?  You end up with a set that costs twice as much as an OEM, with specs no different than you could have ordered directly from the OEM.  I got fitted there earlier this year, and they wanted $2400 for a set of Titleist irons with a stock option shaft and grip.  I bought the same set from discount Dan’s for like $1050.  
 

I think it’s for people who want “comfort” but don’t really understand exactly what it is they are asking for in the first place.  

[MK7Golf21]

Pga superstore near me has the free fittings in the bays and they also have paid fittings, believe they were $50. The paid one uses top of the line launch monitor and has a wide selection of shafts on a wall with the adapters like CC. I didn’t do a fitting but the guy doing the paid ones seemed pretty competent. 

[pinestreetgolf]

28 minutes ago, CallawayLefty said:

Club Champion does decent fittings.  I get goofy numbers sometimes off trackman indoors,  but it’s not really their fault and you can still tell where things relatively compare to one another.  
 

 But their club pricing is just INSANE.  I hate that their fitters also get commissions because it makes them super aggressive and/or “sob story” at the end of the fitting.  And the idea that you’re fitting isn’t even credited when you buy is just crazy.  You’re paying, for example, a $1500 up charge for a set of irons but don’t even get your $100 fitting credited?

 

I think it’s for people who assume there is more magic to club fitting than their really is.  Most materials (shafts, grips, heads, etc) are so close on specs that no mortal human could tell you any difference.  And my guess is they don’t actually do all the things noted above - like weight sorting and frequency matching...the second one especially just doesn’t happen and I don’t care what anyone says.  The only way to build to frequency is parallel tip shafts and custom cutting by someone who really knows what the hell they’re doing...again not from club champion selling you a “super special” set of taper tip project x or whatever.  Puring shafts is of highly speculative value (and oh by the way, they charge you $30 extra for it).  The rest is just measuring and cutting - not rocket science.

 

So where do you end up?  You end up with a set that costs twice as much as an OEM, with specs no different than you could have ordered directly from the OEM.  I got fitted there earlier this year, and they wanted $2400 for a set of Titleist irons with a stock option shaft and grip.  I bought the same set from discount Dan’s for like $1050.  
 

I think it’s for people who want “comfort” but don’t really understand exactly what it is they are asking for in the first place.  

 

Its almost as if golf has a huge mental confidence component that is completely irrational and unique to the individual.

[ndlutz]

I went through a Club Champion full bag fitting at the Philadelphia location in November and bought a set of irons and driver from them. 

 

I'd recommend doing it, even at full price of the fitting. The information I walked away with was really good for me. I was sort of close with a lot of the clubs I had in the bag already and the fitting showed that. It also showed me that there was room for improvement, particularly through swing weight and a different driver shaft. I would have likely never identified either of these things on my own with trial and error. 

 

I decided to move forward and pay Club Champion's  high asking price because I wanted to be sure I was actually buying and receiving what I was fitted into. You do not have to follow suit and do the same. There was no pressure on me to to do so - I walked away that day and then called my fitter 2x before pulling the trigger. With that being the case, I can wholeheartedly recommend at least doing the fitting there. Both my fitter and the fitter in the bay next to me were very engaged with their customers and appeared to know their stuff. I didn't hear any BS while I was there. 

 

As for claims about shafts being different because they're aftermarket, or SST puring being the truth, there's validity in those questions and in the company line by Club Champion. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and we won't know the answers for certain. I just think it's prudent to evaluate and make your own decision rather than assume Club Champion is correct or that they're snake oil salesmen. The answers are somewhere in the middle here and it's really about what you're comfortable paying. 

[Adam C]

If you go to one of these high end fitters be it CC or True Spec or others and don't put down any kind of ground rules about what you are wanting to pay or look at, don't be surprised when you end up in some iron with an aftermarket shaft that isn't even offered by the major OEMs and a crazy price tag to go with it.

 

If you actually believe that there is only one "right" shaft or club for your game and don't care about money then go ahead and buy it from them.

 

Of course the problem is, there are probably 10 different combinations of component pieces that will work just as well for you, not just brand X head, with brand Y shaft. It's also funny how you can look on the tours and see what shaft everyone is playing and 90% are in True Temper Dynamic Gold or Project X which also happen to be stock offerings from all these OEMs. Go to a high end fitter and suddenly everyone is fit into Oban and Accra iron shafts?

[MK7Golf21]

2 hours ago, Adam C said:

If you go to one of these high end fitters be it CC or True Spec or others and don't put down any kind of ground rules about what you are wanting to pay or look at, don't be surprised when you end up in some iron with an aftermarket shaft that isn't even offered by the major OEMs and a crazy price tag to go with it.

 

If you actually believe that there is only one "right" shaft or club for your game and don't care about money then go ahead and buy it from them.

 

Of course the problem is, there are probably 10 different combinations of component pieces that will work just as well for you, not just brand X head, with brand Y shaft. It's also funny how you can look on the tours and see what shaft everyone is playing and 90% are in True Temper Dynamic Gold or Project X which also happen to be stock offerings from all these OEMs. Go to a high end fitter and suddenly everyone is fit into Oban and Accra iron shafts?

yea, pretty much everyone on tour is dynamic gold or project x, mostly dynamic golf though. I try to stick with these for this reason 

[Micrys2]

I have been fit by CC at least three, maybe four times now.  Each time it has been a pretty good experience.  Each time the fitter has been very good, with the exception of the last time where he was very engaged for the first hour or two and then seemed to get bored and unengaged.  That was a first.  I have also had some incredibly great fittings at independent fitters.  Unfortunately, my experience at big box stores has not been the best.  Most of them have been “what clubs would you like to try”, And “here they are”. Let me know what you like”.  Not saying there aren’t any good ones, just hasn’t been my experience. 
 

The good of Club Champion, Cool Clubs, Truspec, is the wide variety of brands, and shafts.  The fitters can help you narrow things down considerably, and relatively quickly.  I have never felt rushed there. And for what I ended up in, each time I felt like I was properly fit. The not so good aspect is you will probably end up in upgraded shafts for many, and possibly every club you buy.  And brotha, it isn’t cheap.  Close to doubles the price.  Of course you don’t have to go with this options as there are likely others that will work just fine.  
 

as to Pureing, and other machinations, I have had it done in the past and note zero benefit.  But that is just my experience.
 

This got a little wordy, hopefully it helped.  

[Jwin323]

Here are some of my observations and experiences. My first time getting fit at Cool Clubs one of the main issues I had going in was I was hitting my 4 and 5 irons roughly the same distance. When he checked the lofts there was actually  a bigger loft spread than spec rather than smaller. The problem turned out to be the stock shaft in the 4 was playing way stiffer than than 5. In fact, the flexes were kind of all over the place throughout the set. We settled on Steelfibers and after they were reshafted ( what I already had was better than anything Elsa I tried that day)  my gapping issues went away. I won’t argue about pureing but I have experienced the difference in sorted and frequency matched shafts.

 

The main reason I chose Cool Clubs is they offered outdoor fittings at the one near me. Trackman was still used but I don’t believe indoor fittings are as accurate. The only thing negative I can say about it was they would not return my pullouts after the work. In subsequent orders from them I pulled my shafts and just gave them the heads for the rebuild.

 

With regards to pureing, I have noticed every Fujikura shaft I’ve had  (8 total) comes out graphics down after pureing  while the Steelfibers, Mitsubishi and Graphite Design are all over the place. Could be coincidence or it could say something about Fuji’s QC.

 

I am happy I spent the money to have custom built and fitted clubs and I have stayed with them longer because of it. I try the new stuff every year but only change if substantial improvement can be achieved. The big one this last year is the Ventus shaft. It’ lives up to the hype and is worth the money.

[ChipNRun]

On 12/31/2020 at 2:59 PM, CoachSmith36 said:

or a place like PGA SuperStore

 

I find your title a bit curious. PGA SuperStore and Golf Galaxy are not big box stores... they are golf specialty retailers. Some golf specialties have an excellent fitting staff, others do not. The same for mom and pop, or other small off-course shops.

 

One way to help you check out the non Club C outlets is to look on the wall. Do you see a lot of certification certificates for fitter training by Maltby/GolfWorks, the OEMs like Titleist and Callaway, or major shaft manufacturers? Of so, chances are you have found a decent shop.

 

Club Champion has more variety on shafts you can test. For a scratch golfer like you, it could be worth it, especially for driver and driver shafts. Be aware, not all Club Champion shops are created equal. The one in St. Louis area has a good reputation, but snippets on our blog say some CC shops really push upgrade shafts that players may or may not like later on.

 

A guy I play with got a CC fitting for some Bridgestone irons a couple of years back. He received the irons, and the fitter told him to play them a month and see if they were "in tune. He found that the 5i-6i gap was 10 yards, while the 6i-7i was 14. All the irons were "in spec," but he still had a gap. So, the fitter bent the loft on the 6i a degree flat, and the problem was solved. Just individual differences in the clubheads.

 

As for me, I have driver CHS just under 90  MPH. In fittings, the proper stock shaft in the right flex give me the same results, or better results, as a pricy custom shaft.

 

The last couple of years, the OEMs have increased the number of stock shafts available for both woods and irons, so a choice among three or four stock shafts ends up being semi-custom.

[sniper]

I’ve posted this in various threads before but the best I’ve played has been with custom built irons...MP-18SC’s built by CC, a set of Wishon’s built by at custom builder and a set R7 TP’s that were retro fit. The MP-18SC is my current set. I’m not sure I’ll go the CC route again but I do believe there is something to sorting, frequency matching shafts. Based I on current knowledge I would not pay for puring. 

[aenemated]

I did my driver fitting at Roger Dunn and my irons fitting at Club Champion. CC was DEFINITELY more thorough in terms of data collected and options to work through. And the fitter was easily more knowledgeable. Not to say it was a bad experience at RD - and I did indeed land on a driver I love - but it was more just having a guy hand me something off the shelf to hit vs. someone logically working towards a goal to achieve what I wanted.

 

There was almost a point we weren't even going to swap out iron heads at all. We'd settled on the Oban CT125 after a fair bit of work and I was getting great results with my old 0211's in the improved setup. But I was like "Eh, we've got time, let's see how things go with a different head." Which worked out great because the P7MC numbers were SO good. 

 

In terms of price, yeah ... the fact that Obans were far and away the best shaft option for me added a good bit to my P7MCs. But I COULD have gone with like TrueTemper and kept the price pretty much stock. And they're cool with working with you on that.

[NorthStar7]

11 hours ago, Adam C said:

If you go to one of these high end fitters be it CC or True Spec or others and don't put down any kind of ground rules about what you are wanting to pay or look at, don't be surprised when you end up in some iron with an aftermarket shaft that isn't even offered by the major OEMs and a crazy price tag to go with it.

 

If you actually believe that there is only one "right" shaft or club for your game and don't care about money then go ahead and buy it from them.

 

Of course the problem is, there are probably 10 different combinations of component pieces that will work just as well for you, not just brand X head, with brand Y shaft. It's also funny how you can look on the tours and see what shaft everyone is playing and 90% are in True Temper Dynamic Gold or Project X which also happen to be stock offerings from all these OEMs. Go to a high end fitter and suddenly everyone is fit into Oban and Accra iron shafts?

 

You just described my first CC experience, exactly.

 

I went in thinking I would check my biases at the door and let the professional do his thing. I wasn't even looking at the shafts as I hit them.

 

Guess what I was fit into?  Oban CT115 iron shafts. At the time, I think they were the most expensive iron shafts on the planet. I think they were about $75 upcharge per shaft. 

 

Did I hit it well?  Yes. Did I hit some others well, too?   Yes. Was I going to pay $75/shaft upcharge...hell no. 

 

I was pissed and they didn't get a sale. Since then, I communicate more up front.  I will hit any shaft, but I will always lean towards a no/low upcharge option if results are similar. 

 

I went across town to another fitter and was fit into a Modus shaft that I liked as much as the Oban, with no upcharge. 

 

It was on me to not be very clear up front...but I don't think it was an accident that the CC fitting went in an expensive direction.