2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[DrSchteeve]

16 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

Papago today. Practice green is closed until next week. I think there's an NCAA tournament later this week. Greens are a little funky. The grain seems to be like Boris Johnson's hair - going every which way. You have to admit that it has some of the strongest par 3's around. Pace of play was dreadful as the out-of-town with wives-who-rarely-play crowd cluttered up the course. It was like a LA traffic jam.

The par 3s are long but not particularly interesting.

[Soloman1]

I agree.

 

[azgolfer44]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

I agree.

 

I actually think they are interesting. 4 is a very tough green. 8 is subtly downhill and has the large swail which is tough to navigate. 11 has a variety of pin positions with a large embankment on the water. 17 is the most bland but has a great backdrop of the mountains. All have difficult bunkering that make near sided misses challenging up and downs. I’ve also found that the par 3 greens are the hardest to read on the course. From the blues, E or -1 on the 3’s is a major accomplishment.  You also have to hit a solid shot on every one. 

[mws92]

Can anyone give a comparison between Arrowhead CC & Alta Mesa GC?  These are the two US Am sites.  Particularly interested in how open they are off the tee, how scoreable is the layout, and condition of the greens?  Granted this is for July but still good to know.  Appreciate it!

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, azgolfer44 said:

I actually think they are interesting. 4 is a very tough green. 8 is subtly downhill and has the large swail which is tough to navigate. 11 has a variety of pin positions with a large embankment on the water. 17 is the most bland but has a great backdrop of the mountains. All have difficult bunkering that make near sided misses challenging up and downs. I’ve also found that the par 3 greens are the hardest to read on the course. From the blues, E or -1 on the 3’s is a major accomplishment.  You also have to hit a solid shot on every one. 

 

I believe they fall more into the difficult camp than interesting camp. Basic problem is that three of the four play over 200 yds. The 4th and 8th are well guarded by bunkers, and the greens are tricky. #17 is only interesting in that you often have to tee off with a 3 wood. The green is large and boring given the length of the hole. The 11th is rather bland.

 

[tcbringhurst]

Sterling Grove today. Shoutout to @Mr. Clean for being a great playing partner! 🙌🏻
 

Greens are softer than they were 4 weeks ago! Wedge shots held, and I even had one shot spin back enough that it caught a downslope and ended up way short of where it landed. Granted, the shot was into the wind, but still something to note. I would still err on the side of these greens being firmer than you’d expect and adjust accordingly during the round. 4 green has some issues front right; some dead grass that is painted green. That’s the only blemish I can remember the whole round. Greens roll pure. Cups edges are sharp; lip outs will happen if your putt is too fast and not centered. 
 

Afternoon brought strong winds into play. Downwind played 1-2 clubs shorter, and into could play 1-3 depending on your shot height. If you want to play without wind, early to mid morning is the best time to go out.

 

Definitely a great course if it fits your budget! 

Edited April 15, 2021 by tcbringhurst

[puttnforthe8]

7 hours ago, mws92 said:

Can anyone give a comparison between Arrowhead CC & Alta Mesa GC?  These are the two US Am sites.  Particularly interested in how open they are off the tee, how scoreable is the layout, and condition of the greens?  Granted this is for July but still good to know.  Appreciate it!

 

Very different courses.  ACC is a very (very) easy parkland course.  Alta is more 'deserty' in comparison; definitely not as easy a course as ACC.

 

 

[bvan]

Heading to play the following in a couple weeks, anything to know on course conditions, greens, restrictions etc?:

 

Boulder South

Quintero

WeKoPa Saguro

Greyhawk Raptor

 

Thanks all

 

 

 

[Mr. Clean]

Played Sterling Grove again this afternoon and the wind was up again 15+ mph winds.  Playing lots of shots short to chase up and it’s still hard and fast, it’s tournament conditions and I LOVE IT 😍

 

This was in the pond by the round about😂

[Miker20890]

was in AZ last week. Played Quintero, We-ko-pa Saguro and Southern Dunes. All in amazing conditions.

[FlashNoonan]

Coldwater and Vistancia this past weekend. First time playing Coldwater. It's average, maybe slightly above average condition I'd say. There are a few holes that if you catch some of the speed pockets in the fairway, your ball is going to run forever. Green speed was great and rolled true. 

 

Vistancia, looking more into summer shape. Dried out areas. Ball will run forever in the fairway. Bunkers were hit or miss. I would know, I was in 9 of them. Greens were pretty quick. Guy in the proshop warned us about them. He made it sound like your ball would roll 30 feet past the hole if you missed it. Wasn't that bad at all but they were quick. Course ate my shorts since it was unusually windy and even had little rain off and on. I felt the AZ resident rate was a bit high but I know that is probably just me because I am ungodly cheap. 

[bvan]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:07 PM, Miker20890 said:

was in AZ last week. Played Quintero, We-ko-pa Saguro and Southern Dunes. All in amazing conditions.

 

@Miker20890, why the sh*tty comments all around WRX about Quintero? I am headed there next week and so many say no bueno....

 

Also playing WeKoPa Saguro from your list....

 

Thanks Mike

 

 

[AzSuperHack76]

14 minutes ago, bvan said:

 

@Miker20890, why the sh*tty comments all around WRX about Quintero? I am headed there next week and so many say no bueno....

 

Also playing WeKoPa Saguro from your list....

 

Thanks Mike

 

 

It's not a bad course at all. But it's layout doesn't hold up against many other courses in the valley. I still recommend it for any out of towner, it's views really are hard to match. Conditions are usually perfect out there as well.  As a local the allure wore off for me after a handful of rounds. I was #1 Quinterro fan on this forum, then as I began to appreciate course design more and more I quickly got over Quinterro. I would keep it on your list as it is an amazing experience for an out of towner. 

[toypor]

1 hour ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

It's not a bad course at all. But it's layout doesn't hold up against many other courses in the valley. I still recommend it for any out of towner, it's views really are hard to match. Conditions are usually perfect out there as well.  As a local the allure wore off for me after a handful of rounds. I was #1 Quinterro fan on this forum, then as I began to appreciate course design more and more I quickly got over Quinterro. I would keep it on your list as it is an amazing experience for an out of towner. 

+1 ASH76 comments.
 

Comments that it is a horrible course are way out of line IMHO. Obviously it wouldn’t be ranked so high in the publications if it weren’t a solid course, no matter what one thinks of the rankings. I wouldn’t want to play it every day. It is a really good experience every so often, especially coming in from out of town and playing for the first time. 
 

You have no worries. Enjoy!

[YMark]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:42 PM, FlashNoonan said:

Coldwater and Vistancia this past weekend. First time playing Coldwater. It's average, maybe slightly above average condition I'd say. There are a few holes that if you catch some of the speed pockets in the fairway, your ball is going to run forever. Green speed was great and rolled true. 

 

I played Coldwater this past weekend. Were you in the Grint tourney?

 

I agree with your assessment of the course. The only thing I'll add is that the surrounding area around the course is really ugly. Nothing but power lines and dirt. And the practice area blows.

 

[tcbringhurst]

1 hour ago, bvan said:

 

@Miker20890, why the sh*tty comments all around WRX about Quintero? I am headed there next week and so many say no bueno....

 

Also playing WeKoPa Saguro from your list....

 

Thanks Mike

 

 

Front 9 holds up strong IMO as far as hole design and challenge goes. Back 9, with the exception of 14, seem like variations of the same holes and get boring quick.
 

I’ve played it 3 times. It’s a great course to play once or twice for the downhill par 3s and the 8th hole. Greens are lightning fast, but pins are generally placed in relatively flat areas of the greens so it’s not discouragingly challenging. Fairways and approaches are in superb conditions as well as the bunkers.

[Miker20890]

7 hours ago, bvan said:

 

@Miker20890, why the sh*tty comments all around WRX about Quintero? I am headed there next week and so many say no bueno....

 

Also playing WeKoPa Saguro from your list....

 

Thanks Mike

 

 

Basically what everyone has said since you posted this. It’s a very nice course don’t get me wrong but wekopa and southern dunes are much better. The par 4s there all felt the same. Uphill and straight. 

[azmx]

9 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Front 9 holds up strong IMO as far as hole design and challenge goes. Back 9, with the exception of 14, seem like variations of the same holes and get boring quick.
 

I’ve played it 3 times. It’s a great course to play once or twice for the downhill par 3s and the 8th hole. Greens are lightning fast, but pins are generally placed in relatively flat areas of the greens so it’s not discouragingly challenging. Fairways and approaches are in superb conditions as well as the bunkers.

Totally agree that visitors should play it and think it is overall slightly underrated.  The 8th hole is one of the worst designed holes I've ever played however.  4 iron-3 wood-Wedge is fine.  I don't mind that.  It is the fact that there's not a single interesting thing about the tee shot and that no matter what you do there's nothing ingesting about the hole.  The green is completely without character as well.  If it provided some type of challenge I would think differently.  It doesn't.  Even a very average player has no choices other than the obvious and they aren't particularly tough shots.  Perhaps the worst par 5 in the Valley and one of the worst designed holes I've ever played anywhere.

 

I enjoy the par 3s OTOH.  Think they are fun and they are the reason that I play it a few times/year.

[tcbringhurst]

8 hours ago, azmx said:

The 8th hole is one of the worst designed holes I've ever played however.  4 iron-3 wood-Wedge is fine.  I don't mind that.  It is the fact that there's not a single interesting thing about the tee shot and that no matter what you do there's nothing ingesting about the hole.  The green is completely without character as well.  If it provided some type of challenge I would think differently.  It doesn't.  Even a very average player has no choices other than the obvious and they aren't particularly tough shots.  Perhaps the worst par 5 in the Valley and one of the worst designed holes I've ever played anywhere.

Agree to disagree. There's trouble to the right of the tee shot. Even with the fairway wide as it is, I still found it once. The uphill approach also makes club selection more difficult. I like it because not enough courses have a legitimate three-shot Par 5.

[AzSuperHack76]

5 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Agree to disagree. There's trouble to the right of the tee shot. Even with the fairway wide as it is, I still found it once. The uphill approach also makes club selection more difficult. I like it because not enough courses have a legitimate three-shot Par 5.

Woof, you must be a fan of Stoneridge #18 then. To me both are in the running for the worst par 5's in Arizona.

[FlashNoonan]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:38 PM, YMark said:

I played Coldwater this past weekend. Were you in the Grint tourney?

 

I agree with your assessment of the course. The only thing I'll add is that the surrounding area around the course is really ugly. Nothing but power lines and dirt. And the practice area blows.

 

 Yes, I was in the Grint tourney. I was in the Eagle flight. Some of the holes gave pretty nice views to the Estrella mountains. But you're right. Power lines everywhere and the railroad tracks seemed pretty close on #3 and #16.

[Bonneville85308]

Dobson Ranch early this morning. Probably the first time I had been there since 2018, before the current management company took over. Looks like quite a few improvements have been made both around the clubhouse area and the course itself. The course seemed in much better condition than I remember from spring 2018. Greens looked good, firm but not ridiculous, about what I consider average value course speed. A few thin spots in the fairways but overall pretty good grass coverage for this late in the winter rye season on a muni. Bunkers firm but playable. A few completely dead trees in play that should come down. Starter was absolutely hilarious and all the staff I encountered had positive attitudes.

 

Pace 3:40. $42 to walk as a county resident. 

[Skydiver22]

1 hour ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Woof, you must be a fan of Stoneridge #18 then. To me both are in the running for the worst par 5's in Arizona.

LOL... I once hit my putter on the second shot down the hill.  Not a fan of that hole layout.

[tcbringhurst]

2 hours ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Woof, you must be a fan of Stoneridge #18 then. To me both are in the running for the worst par 5's in Arizona.

🤣 haven’t been there yet.

[AzSuperHack76]

2 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

🤣 haven’t been there yet.

As much as I don’t like #8 at Quintero I’m just busting chops! 

Edited April 23, 2021 by AzSuperHack76

[tcbringhurst]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:10 PM, tcbringhurst said:

Sterling Grove today. Shoutout to @Mr. Clean for being a great playing partner! 🙌🏻
 

Greens are softer than they were 4 weeks ago! Wedge shots held, and I even had one shot spin back enough that it caught a downslope and ended up way short of where it landed. Granted, the shot was into the wind, but still something to note. I would still err on the side of these greens being firmer than you’d expect and adjust accordingly during the round. 4 green has some issues front right; some dead grass that is painted green. That’s the only blemish I can remember the whole round. Greens roll pure. Cups edges are sharp; lip outs will happen if your putt is too fast and not centered. 
 

Afternoon brought strong winds into play. Downwind played 1-2 clubs shorter, and into could play 1-3 depending on your shot height. If you want to play without wind, early to mid morning is the best time to go out.

 

Definitely a great course if it fits your budget! 

Sterling Grove again today. I'll echo what I said here, with the addition that the rough is now shorter to encourage the bermuda grass to take over; everything played fast today. Thanks again @Mr. Clean 🙌

[Olson12]

Anyone play Whirlwind lately?  I haven't played in years and don't remember if Cattail or Devils Claw is the better of the 2.  Only Cattail available on the day I want to go. 

[puttnforthe8]

4 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Anyone play Whirlwind lately?  I haven't played in years and don't remember if Cattail or Devils Claw is the better of the 2.  Only Cattail available on the day I want to go. 

They were both in pretty good shape as of week before last.  But you may want to call to see if they have started punching the fairways, etc.  

 

Personally, Devils Claw is the better course - more variety of shots.  Cattail is more straightforward/easier of the courses with the holes having less variety.    

[puttnforthe8]

TPC Champions - They have punched the fairways and the grass has started to yellow up; They are watering to try and keep it green and it ends up with a lot of drenched areas, including in front of the greens which prevent bouncing up.  Rough was very inconsistent  - looks like they are not cutting it often.  There were multiple lengths at any given spot.

 

The greens are rolling nice, but slower than normal.  It felt like they had sanded them recently and there is still some residual sand and longer grass.

 

All in all it was still good and I enjoyed myself and played well.

 

Couple of side notes:  they are now allowing carts on hole 1 and 15 and on #5 left fairway.  They did some assessments of the holes and found there were a lot of delays because of the CPO.  They are also moving the tee boxes up on #5 'more often - during the assessment they noted that hole led to significant time delays because of the length and the CPO on the left fwy.  By moving them up and allowing carts the rounds were improved a lot.  I would have to agree with the changes - POP was 3:55 Sunday morning.

[jatrain]

Papago today.  Still in pretty good shape  but starting to show some wear. As said, greens are really funky, and seemed slower than normal, but putted well.