2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[sittonsideways]

Overseed season coming up. What are conditions like right before the courses shut down? I’ll be in town next weekend and looks like only a few courses will be open pre-seeding. Eyeing TN Pinnacle and Grayhawk Talon at the moment, but leery of paying top dollar on the end of season turf. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by sittonsideways

[puttnforthe8]

19 minutes ago, sittonsideways said:

Overseed season coming up. What are conditions like right before the courses shut down? I’ll be in town next weekend and looks like only a few courses will be open pre-seeding. Eyeing TN Pinnacle and Grayhawk Talon at the moment, but leery of paying top dollar on the end of season turf. 

The courses are in the best shape of the year before overseed.  Caveat - you need to call and ensure they have not done anything early.

 

 

 

[sittonsideways]

3 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

The courses are in the best shape of the year before overseed.  Caveat - you need to call and ensure they have not done anything early.

 

 

 

This is what I was hoping for. Thanks!

[AZ_JHWK]

11 hours ago, sittonsideways said:

Overseed season coming up. What are conditions like right before the courses shut down? I’ll be in town next weekend and looks like only a few courses will be open pre-seeding. Eyeing TN Pinnacle and Grayhawk Talon at the moment, but leery of paying top dollar on the end of season turf. 

According to the AZ overseed schedule Talon reopens AFTER overseed on Oct 3rd and Pinnacle on Oct 7th. If that is correct you'd be looking at very soft conditions and cart path only. 

 

 

[sittonsideways]

You’re right. After my first message I doubled checked the schedule and saw these two in particular were actually just coming out of overseeding. That’s a hard pass. 

[Bonneville85308]

Tres Rios today, my first time there. Course conditions are apparently much improved under the new management, compared to pre-2021 reviews and photos on here and elsewhere. Fairways were the best part, firm with excellent grass coverage, really no bare spots at all. Rough was in good shape and cut fairly low. Green speeds "average" for a value course, some visual blemishes but rolled fine.  One of the par 3 greens on the back nine was oddly crazy fast and dried out compared to the others.  Bunkers were a weak point, the sand was decent but mostly unraked and many were full of grass clippings, leaves, and junk. Numerous tees also had some crowning/low spot issues. The practice green is closed right now as they recently re-grassed it with some different type of grass than what it had before. Pace was great as the course wasn't busy and we flew around with no waiting. They close for overseed on 10/15, for some reason the course isn't on the AGA overseed list.

 

I enjoyed the layout, the setting, it was a good value for $30 and would definitely go back. A few years ago I didn't even bother to play it just based on how it looked driving by on Vineyard.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[tcbringhurst]

Gonna hit the range tomorrow. When a course is closed for overseed, does that include the range?

[cbbaron]

6 minutes ago, tcbringhurst said:

Gonna hit the range tomorrow. When a course is closed for overseed, does that include the range?

Troon North range was closed when I was 9/13 both courses were open but overseed on range had begun

[MUNIGRIT]

13 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Gonna hit the range tomorrow. When a course is closed for overseed, does that include the range?

Yes in most cases that I have seen. I had to call a few ranges to find one that was open with the overseed at my normal course going on.

[AzSuperHack76]

20 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Tres Rios today, my first time there. Course conditions are apparently much improved under the new management, compared to pre-2021 reviews and photos on here and elsewhere. Fairways were the best part, firm with excellent grass coverage, really no bare spots at all. Rough was in good shape and cut fairly low. Green speeds "average" for a value course, some visual blemishes but rolled fine.  One of the par 3 greens on the back nine was oddly crazy fast and dried out compared to the others.  Bunkers were a weak point, the sand was decent but mostly unraked and many were full of grass clippings, leaves, and junk. Numerous tees also had some crowning/low spot issues. The practice green is closed right now as they recently re-grassed it with some different type of grass than what it had before. Pace was great as the course wasn't busy and we flew around with no waiting. They close for overseed on 10/15, for some reason the course isn't on the AGA overseed list.

 

I enjoyed the layout, the setting, it was a good value for $30 and would definitely go back. A few years ago I didn't even bother to play it just based on how it looked driving by on Vineyard.

 

 

Good to see it’s doing better, it’s actually a fun little layout. I’ll be heading back out there soon. 

[AzSuperHack76]

Falcon Dunes, overall in good shape. Greens were a little inconsistent, some were slow some were fast. Fairways,m, tee boxes and rough were all in great shape. Bunkers need an overhaul, that’s my only negative. Tee’d off at 9 and got around in 3.5 hours, so pace was great. They close in the 15th for overseed. 

[Bonneville85308]

Some updates from the last few days:

 

Ken McDonald - I was surprised how dried out/firm they had it for being more than week remaining before overseed closure on 10/18. As a short hitter who struggles with getting on the green in 2 on holes like 16 and 18, I really enjoyed playing this course in firm conditions for once. Greens were really slow though. Paired with 3 other quick players who were a pleasure to play with and we finished in 3:30 after playing through a group on the front. One thing that keeps me from playing/walking this course more is the walk from 9 green to 10 tee and 16 green to 17 tee. Fortunately one of the guys in the group on a cart by himself gave me a ride. One of the great mysteries I want to figure out before I die is why #9 is always CPO with a giant curb and signs warning you that if you hop the curb you will be told to leave the property. Did someone drive a cart into the pond back in 1993 or something?

 

Encanto - Nowhere near as dried out/firm as Kenny Mac about a week before overseed closure, but in good condition all around. Greens were in great condition except for the front of #1 and a small part on the right side of #5.  Paired with 3 other friendly walkers and finished in about 3:15 with an early tee time.

 

Dobson Ranch - Played 3 days before overseed closure. Firm/browned out fairways as expected, although some of the fairway grass seemed "fluffed up" somehow, like in preparation for scalping, so had a lot of good lies. Greens were in great condition and what I would consider fast for a muni course. Bunkers were terrible, between myself and my friends we were probably in 8 of them and they were all like absolute concrete. Driving range was packed with people. Got a little concerned about the pace on the front, as we waited on most shots and finished in 2:15 which is pathetic for a pre-7am tee time. I figured we were screwed from the start when a young guy in a group ahead of us was running out of the pro shop holding his 1990s-era bag by the trunk handle in one hand, a White Claw in the other, and asking someone where the first tee was. However, it picked up on the back nine and we finished 18 at the 4:05 mark. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

Slim Pickens due to overseed. Played Sundance in Buckeye today, I was pleasantly surprised, cart path only due to recent overseed. Overseed took well, greens were rolling well, fairways and tee boxes were all lushly overseeded and in great shape. For $29 dollars, it is a great value. Tee'd off at 930, finished in exactly 4 hours with CPO which was awesome. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by AzSuperHack76

[jatrain]

6 hours ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Slim Pickens due to overseed. Played Sundance in Buckeye today, I was pleasantly surprised, cart path only due to recent overseed. Overseed took well, greens were rolling well, fairways, tee boxes and rough were all lushly overseeded and in great shape. For $29 dollars, it is a great value. Tee'd off at 930, finished in exactly 4 hours with CPO which was awesome. 

Decided to give it a shot there on Friday.  Is it walkable?  Being CPO I’d rather carry than cart.  

[AzSuperHack76]

9 hours ago, jatrain said:

Decided to give it a shot there on Friday.  Is it walkable?  Being CPO I’d rather carry than cart.  

I’d say it is defiantly walkable. It’s a basic housing tract course without too many long gaps between holes.

 

Lay up to the left fairways on 10 & 12. 

For $29 I think you’ll be happy. 

 

[Bonneville85308]

2 hours ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

I’d say it is defiantly walkable. It’s a basic housing tract course without too many long gaps between holes.

 

Lay up to the left fairways on 10 & 12. 

For $29 I think you’ll be happy. 

 

 

Yep, I've walked it several times before, and I generally don't walk courses unless the green-to-tee transitions are fairly short. They routed it in a very walkable fashion for a housing development course, the longest walk is maybe 600-700' from 9 green to 10 tee and most are way less than that.  After being for sale for a couple years, it changed ownership this past summer and I understand the new ownership wants to spruce up some details that were let go under the prior regime. 

[jatrain]

Based on the recommendation (thanks AZSuperHack76!) played Sundance today.  Really enjoyed it (other than a few poorly designed holes), course was in great shape and a pretty easy walk (CPO).  Played in under four hours for $29.  If I lived on the West side I’d have it in the rotation (for value courses)  

[puttnforthe8]

Devils Claw at Whirlwind today - It is in fantastic shape tee to green.  Greens are a touch slow, but roll nice.  Fairways are virtually flawless.  CPO of course.  Some bunker recut and very loose sand added.

[puttnforthe8]

Quintero Sunday - it is in really good shape; They don't mess with the greens, so they are rolling really good - there seems to have been some rot in a few greens as big patches have been replaced.  OS came it very good in almost all fairways with only a few bad spots.  Bunkers very good.  POP was 430 with the CPO and a slowish group in front of us.  So not terrible.

[chisag]

... Played Aguila today, the first day open after overseeding. This is my first overseed season so pretty interesting. Hardly no roll and shaggy fairways with slow rolling greens that were not quite as bad as I expected. We played behind the last group of 120 high school girls qualifying for State. Riding carts allowed in the rough or on cart path only but 120 girls rolling push carts down the fairway didn't seem like the best idea. This picture is just off the #9 tee box. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by chisag

[AzSuperHack76]

TPC Champions today. Cart Path Only due to overseed. Greens a little shaggy and on the slow side, to be expected, but they will be in great shape as the overseed took well. Fairways and tee boxes are all in great shape. Bunkers were decent but no one rakes them anymore, just a pain. 

 

Pace of play was awful, CPO didn't help but a 5 hour round is unacceptable. 

[Bonneville85308]

Aguila this morning. I think they mowed the fairways since @chisag played, they weren't shaggy and all the pushcart tracks were gone. I had thought the course would be a swampy mess with zero roll, but that wasn't true at all. The ball was rolling a bit, no puddles or mudholes, ball wasn't picking up much dirt, and I found myself over clubbing everything in false anticipation of no roll on most approach shots.  It was nowhere near as soaked and muddy as many other courses are when they are 2 days out of overseed. Pace 3:20 as a foursome but we were out there early.

[AzSuperHack76]

Wigwam Red this morning. Typical overseed conditions. Greens slow and shaggy but holding their lines for the most part, some exaggerated break due to the shagginess. Overseed took well, everything was super lush and thick. 
 

Teed off at 0730, got a round in 3 and a half hours, great pace for CPO. 

[tcbringhurst]

Coyote Lakes this morning. Shaggy tee to green from overseed. Slow greens. Should be nice conditions once they start cutting it shorter. 
 

Semi-related note, hole 10 alone makes me not want to play this course again. There’s a lake on the left 260 out that goes to the green. The fairway slopes severely towards the water the entire hole. If the course played dry and fast, you’d easily get in the water if you got a bad kick on the right side of the fairway. 
 

POP was around 4.5 hours. Had to wait a few minutes on almost every shot

Edited October 22, 2021 by tcbringhurst

[Bonneville85308]

39 minutes ago, tcbringhurst said:

Coyote Lakes this morning. Shaggy tee to green from overseed. Slow greens. Should be nice conditions once they start cutting it shorter. 
 

Semi-related note, hole 10 alone makes me not want to play this course again. There’s a lake on the left 260 out that goes to the green. The fairway slopes severely towards the water the entire hole. If the course played dry and fast, you’d easily get in the water if you got a bad kick on the right side of the fairway. 
 

POP was around 4.5 hours. Had to wait a few minutes on almost every shot

 

I play that course maybe once per year with 3 friends who can't break 110. #10 takes forever to play for high handicappers, between the slanted fairway, the pond, and the big low tree next to the green. There are a few holes I like on the course but #10 isn't one of them.

[Bonneville85308]

Sun City CC this morning. 2 days out of overseed but they are allowing carts in the fairways with the 90 degree rule. Fairways wet as to be expected with little roll and the grass was long on a few. Fairway grass coverage is good for a value course but some thin spots here and there and some small spots where it looks like the bermuda didn't quite die off or something. The rough was generally cut low,  I've seen some crazy high/thick overseeded rough here post-overseed in years past. Greens weren't particularly slow, were fairly firm, and the overseed came through great on those. Pace 3:30. $59 rate which I believe is $10 more than they were charging last year at this time. Someone was telling me the tee sheet was absolutely full from dawn to like 3pm and the parking lot sure looked liked it.

[ferrispgm]

Played Papago on Saturday 1st day out of overseed.  I was pleasantly surprised.  Greens were relatively quick considering and fairly firm as well.  Fairways a touch shaggy, some were worse than others.  Ground was soft and borderline mudball territory but not too bad.  Overall I was pleasantly surprised with the conditioning though.

[puttnforthe8]

Ambiente out of overseed and this is a clear warning to stay away.  The fairways were the same height as the rough and the ball can just plug in some spots.  The fescue is overgrown badly and even the slightest roll into it and your ball is not findable!  The greens in front are so drenched that the ball just stops or plugs on anything short.  The greens are not bad but very inconsistent.  The bunkers are just terrible with one spot being soft and another a couple of feet away concrete.

 

There also must be deals going on or members just wanting to get out so bad, it was a 515ish round!

Edited October 25, 2021 by puttnforthe8

[AzSuperHack76]

Vistancia, woah, completely shocked, place is in phenomenal shape. The greens are in near peak condition. If someone told me they just came out of overseed on 10/15 I would call them a liar. The greens are what I would expect in January/February condition. Greens are pure, fairways and tee boxes are perfect as well. Bunkers as always, leave a lot to be desired, rocky and thin. I’m just taken back on how great all the new turf is. Maybe it’s because 3 out of the last 5 years they had absolutely horrible overseeds/overall conditions. They got it right this year. 
 

Paid $61, teed off at 920, got around in exactly 4 hours with cart path only. 
 

Picture is the practice green. The greens on the course are just as good if not better. 

[Bonneville85308]

Beautiful day for golf today.

 

Orange Tree: Great job on the fairway overseed. Fairways weren't too wet and the ball rolled some. Greens were slow but in nice shape. Bunkers absolutely terrible, very thin layer of sand over rock hard compacted dirt, and I was in probably 10 of them. No CPO, finished in 4 hours as a foursome in the morning with some waiting. First time I played this since probably summer 2019 and it looked like at some point they got rid of a lot of the tall "marsh grass" around the ponds on 9 and 18. They also added a rated combo tee between the 6344 whites and 5666 copper, it was just shy of 6,000 yards.

 

Mountain Shadows: Excellent condition all around, with one exception. The green on the "Forrest Wager" hole (aka the 17 1/2 hole) looked in poor condition and was actually closed for play, which was disappointing. Played as a twosome in the afternoon and only waited once or twice briefly. They are closed for some kind of tournament for the rest of the week. Fun round on a course I always enjoy, but only play maybe once per year because the price is nuts for what it is due to the neighborhood.