2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[Double K]

13 hours ago, fore_life said:

Book your tee time ASAP, it’s getting harder to find times. I stayed up til midnight to book a sat round with my city card and the earliest I could get was 8am, literally booked before the clock struck 12:01

Thanks for the heads up. 

 

Do you still practice at Viewpoint? Is that still a decent option? I haven't been down in three or four years. 

 

We are at Val Vista and University. 

[fore_life]

Yeah man still at viewpoint, overseed came in really nice, I haven’t been out on course as it’s in full Senior snowbird swing already, but the putting green is rolling exceptionally well and the range grass is great!

[tcbringhurst]

Is Bellair reopening? They closed it down several months ago and let the course go, but I noticed that they were out mowing earlier this week and had pins set up.

[Bonneville85308]

2 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Is Bellair reopening? They closed it down several months ago and let the course go, but I noticed that they were out mowing earlier this week and had pins set up.

 

It's supposed to reopen soon but I think it's been delayed. They overseeded the course last month, repaved the parking lot, etc. but they have no web presence or tee time booking engine yet it appears. I thought I saw two carts out on the course the other day but couldn't tell if they were playing or not. This new ownership group took over this past spring after the idiot before only had it a little over a year until getting foreclosed on after accomplishing basically nothing the entire time. It was closed for all of 2020 and he missed out on probably the best year for golf course owners in 20 years. I wish the new owners good luck, that little course has good bones but the entire property has had a ridiculous amount of deferred maintenance for many years.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[Double K]

Has anyone played Longbow, AZ Golf Resort or Kenny Mac after overseed?

 

Is 6 weeks post overseed still the rule of thumb? 

 

I'm getting antsy if you can't tell!!

[Bonneville85308]

1 hour ago, Double K said:

Has anyone played Longbow, AZ Golf Resort or Kenny Mac after overseed?

 

Is 6 weeks post overseed still the rule of thumb? 

 

I'm getting antsy if you can't tell!!

 

I played Kenny Mac last weekend. See my post on page 24 of this thread. It's in good enough condition.

 

6 weeks past overseed the rule of thumb for what? "Normal" winter conditions? Sounds way excessive unless one is a total unreasonable stickler who expects absolute perfection. I mean, maybe if you are paying $250 to play Troon North or something you might want to wait 6 weeks? Otherwise on the lower end of the spectrum there is zero reason to wait that long to play a course.  I played numerous courses a week out of overseed this fall, and besides the greens being a little slow, conditions were fine enough to play an enjoyable round.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[Bonneville85308]

Played Encanto this morning, my first time post-overseed. Wasn't impressed with this year's overseed job even by "value course" standards. Seemed really thin, especially in the last 50 yards or so of each fairway particularly on the front nine. Had a lot of near-bare dirt lies. Greens were in nice shape, speeds were about normal for this course. Rough has gone dormant and they have it cut down to almost fairway height. Good for roll, but it will be total hardpan in a couple months.  Pace under 3.5 hours for an early round. Also there were two used condoms laying next to the back tee box on #1.

[azgolfer44]

Papago was pure yesterday.  Greens were firm and rolling at a very nice speed.  Everything came in great after the overseed.  Was only in 1 bunker, but they all looked in better shape than 3-4 months ago.  POP was 4:25 for first group out in the men's league.  

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

Verde River this weekend.  It is in fantastic shape tee to green; everything is in great shape - fairways are still soft and slow - so no roll - but still great to hit off.  

 

So many new houses and more filling in the whole course...so a bit depressing from that standpoint

 

The Verde River Grill is hands down one of the best restaurants in the Phx area.  Plus a great patio experience.

[AzSuperHack76]

GCU this morning, it’s in great shape. Greens are rolling very well right now. Bunkers are the best I have seen them in a while. Tee’d off just after 7, finished in exactly 4 hours, should have been 3.5 or better but we waited on a group of old guys from 11 on in. 

[FlashNoonan]

Lookout Mountain yesterday. Great shape overall and only a couple of holes were cart path only. Greens were soft, rolled true and were quite quick. Sand was in excellent shape as well. 

[chisag]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:49 PM, FlashNoonan said:

Lookout Mountain yesterday.

 

 

... After spending 3.5 months in the winter of 2019 and now 1 full year as a permanent resident in Phoenix I thought I would post my 5 least favorite and most favorite public courses. Not "best" just favorites. Basically semi retired I play 5 or 6 times a week and played lots of courses but I have soooo many more to play. I pretty much play twilite exclusively since my twice operated on back from college football makes mornings impossible. Plus I am just not a morning person. Obviously this is subjective and I expect some will feel very differently but hopefully I can find some of the courses to avoid and others that are a must play. In no particular order:

Least favorite:
1. Lookout Mountain. I prefer walking and really don't care for homes on the course. Long distance rides in a cart are just not something I appreciate unless the views are spectacular. 

2. Las Sendas. Played it with 3 out of towners and several times we had no idea where to hit our tee shots. Not a fan of blind greens either. 

3. The Duke. I have not played it this year but when I did there was zero grass on the fairways. I could not believe the course was packed!

4. Ahwatukee. I am sure no comment is necessary.

5. Cave Creek. Just too goofy for me, especially the greens.


Favorites:
1. Quintero. We didn't have courses like this in Chicago and both times I have played it was visually stunning. Played all par 3's from the tips.

2. Verrado Founders. Pretty wide open course with excellent views and elevation changes. I love a course where most of the holes you are on is the only one you can see. 

3. Southern Dunes. Already talked about on this thread but I love everything about Ak Chin. From the range to the super friendly staff and a layout I enjoy that has always been in great shape. 

4. Raven. During the summer the shade from the tree lined course was a real savior. I did a 3 month membership and grew to love the place for $25 a round. 

5. Aguila. Playing 5-6 times a week the cost adds up quickly. I use a remote cart with a senior city card so $23.89 is a bargain for this fun and challenging course, especially when I factor in 1 free round after 10 paid for dropping the price to $21.70 in the middle of snowbird season. 


... Courses that have been highly recommended but I have not yet played are We Ko Pa, Dinosaur Mountain, Troon North and Eagle Mountain. 
 

Edited November 24, 2021 by chisag

[puttnforthe8]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... After spending 3.5 months in the winter of 2019 and now 1 full year as a permanent resident in Phoenix I thought I would post my 5 least favorite and most favorite public courses. Not "best" just favorites. Basically semi retired I play 5 or 6 times a week and played lots of courses but I have soooo many more to play. I pretty much play twilite exclusively since my twice operated on back from college football makes the mornings impossible. Plus I am just not a morning person. Obviously this is very subjective and I expect some will feel very differently but hopefully I can find some of the courses to avoid and others that are a must play. In no particular order:

Least favorite:
1. Lookout Mountain. I prefer walking and really don't care for homes on the course. Long distance rides in a cart are just not something I appreciate unless the views are spectacular. 

2. Las Sendas. Played it with 3 out of towers and several times we had no idea where to hit our tee shots. Not a fan of blind greens either. 

3. The Duke. I have not played it this year but when I did there was zero grass on the fairways. I could not believe the course was packed!

4. Ahwatukee. I am sure no comment is necessary.

5. Cave Creek. Just too goofy for me, especially the greens.


Favorites:
1. Quintero. We didn't have courses like this in Chicago and both times I have played it was visually stunning. Played all par 3's from the tips.

2. Verrado Founders. Pretty wide open course with excellent views and elevation changes. I love a course where most of the holes you are on is the only one you can see. 

3. Southern Dunes. Already talked about on this thread but I love everything about Ak Chin. From the range to the super friendly staff and a layout I enjoy that has always been in great shape. 

4. Raven. During the summer the shade from the tree lined course was a real savior. I did a 3 month membership and grew to love the place for $25 a round. 

5. Aguila. Playing 5-6 times a week the cost adds up quickly. I use a remote cart with a senior city card so $23.89 is a bargain for this fun and challenging course, especially when I factor in 1 free round after 10 paid for dropping the price to $21.70 in the middle of snowbird season. 


... Courses that have been highly recommended but I have not yet played are We Ko Pa, Dinosaur Mountain, Troon North and Eagle Mountain. 
 

 

Pretty good start.  

 

For some of your next ventures soon:  Sterling Grove(walk), Vistancia(decent value all year round), Wickenburg Ranch, Estrella, Poston Butte(walk), Verrado Victory, Legend Trail,  Longbow(walk)

[chisag]

2 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

For some of your next ventures soon:  Sterling Grove(walk), Vistancia(decent value all year round), Wickenburg Ranch, Estrella, Poston Butte(walk), Verrado Victory, Legend Trail,  Longbow(walk)

 

... Thanks, I have played all of those with the exception of Sterling Grove and Longbow. I will check them out. 👍

[YMark]

22 hours ago, chisag said:

 

5. Aguila. Playing 5-6 times a week the cost adds up quickly. I use a remote cart with a senior city card so $23.89 is a bargain for this fun and challenging course, especially when I factor in 1 free round after 10 paid for dropping the price to $21.70 in the middle of snowbird season. 
 

 

Nice write-up but a question on Aguila. I have the senior card and the walking rate in the middle of snowbird season is $35.84 unless you play after 1:00PM like you do. My question is about the pace of play at that time. I typically play in the morning so pace of play isn't usually that bad. How is it at 1:00 and after?

[chisag]

55 minutes ago, YMark said:

 

Nice write-up but a question on Aguila. I have the senior card and the walking rate in the middle of snowbird season is $35.84 unless you play after 1:00PM like you do. My question is about the pace of play at that time. I typically play in the morning so pace of play isn't usually that bad. How is it at 1:00 and after?

 

... A bunch of regulars usually get the first 3 tee times and finishing is not a problem, unless something earlier in the day sets things back a few tee times. But for Dec/Jan anytime after the first 3 tee times is hit or miss. And of course every now and then it is just a slow round and finishing can be a problem. But Mon-Fri 3:50 to 4:10 is pretty much standard. Sat and Sun are crap shoots. 

[puttnforthe8]

36 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... A bunch of regulars usually get the first 3 tee times and finishing is not a problem, unless something earlier in the day sets things back a few tee times. But for Dec/Jan anytime after the first 3 tee times is hit or miss. And of course every now and then it is just a slow round and finishing can be a problem. But Mon-Fri 3:50 to 4:10 is pretty much standard. Sat and Sun are crap shoots. 

@YMark I agree with this...after playing 100s of rounds at Aguila I usually take the approach that, during the week, if things went well throughout the day the POP will be fine in the afternoon; but on weekends if I play in the afternoon I always plan on playing the front 9 over again because pop can be brutal....if not, great. 

[BirdieRoll]

I haven’t played Longbow in about a year.

 

Have they cleared walking paths from the tee boxes to the fairways or are they still full of desert scrub, forcing one to get to the fairways via the cart path?

[puttnforthe8]

1 hour ago, BirdieRoll said:

I haven’t played Longbow in about a year.

 

Have they cleared walking paths from the tee boxes to the fairways or are they still full of desert scrub, forcing one to get to the fairways via the cart path?

CPO

[Argonne69]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:49 PM, chisag said:

 

 

... After spending 3.5 months in the winter of 2019 and now 1 full year as a permanent resident in Phoenix I thought I would post my 5 least favorite and most favorite public courses. Not "best" just favorites. Basically semi retired I play 5 or 6 times a week and played lots of courses but I have soooo many more to play. I pretty much play twilite exclusively since my twice operated on back from college football makes mornings impossible. Plus I am just not a morning person. Obviously this is subjective and I expect some will feel very differently but hopefully I can find some of the courses to avoid and others that are a must play. In no particular order:

Least favorite:
1. Lookout Mountain. I prefer walking and really don't care for homes on the course. Long distance rides in a cart are just not something I appreciate unless the views are spectacular. 

2. Las Sendas. Played it with 3 out of towners and several times we had no idea where to hit our tee shots. Not a fan of blind greens either. 

3. The Duke. I have not played it this year but when I did there was zero grass on the fairways. I could not believe the course was packed!

4. Ahwatukee. I am sure no comment is necessary.

5. Cave Creek. Just too goofy for me, especially the greens.


Favorites:
1. Quintero. We didn't have courses like this in Chicago and both times I have played it was visually stunning. Played all par 3's from the tips.

2. Verrado Founders. Pretty wide open course with excellent views and elevation changes. I love a course where most of the holes you are on is the only one you can see. 

3. Southern Dunes. Already talked about on this thread but I love everything about Ak Chin. From the range to the super friendly staff and a layout I enjoy that has always been in great shape. 

4. Raven. During the summer the shade from the tree lined course was a real savior. I did a 3 month membership and grew to love the place for $25 a round. 

5. Aguila. Playing 5-6 times a week the cost adds up quickly. I use a remote cart with a senior city card so $23.89 is a bargain for this fun and challenging course, especially when I factor in 1 free round after 10 paid for dropping the price to $21.70 in the middle of snowbird season. 


... Courses that have been highly recommended but I have not yet played are We Ko Pa, Dinosaur Mountain, Troon North and Eagle Mountain. 
 

 

Boo hiss. Lol. I played Cave Creek weekly last winter, so maybe I developed a soft spot for it. Yes, the greens are a bit goofy, but that's its defense. 17 and 18 are, umm, fun?

 

Sure, it's not Aguila or Papago, but to me it's not bottom 5. Tres Rios? The Legend at Arrowhead? Pueblo El Mirage? Most of the Sun City courses? Rancho Manana? 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Argonne69

[Bonneville85308]

20 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Boo hiss. Lol. I played Cave Creek weekly last winter, so maybe I developed a soft spot for it. Yes, the greens are a bit goofy, but that's its defense. 17 and 18 are, umm, fun?

 

Sure, it's not Aguila or Papago, but to me it's not bottom 5. Tres Rios? The Legend at Arrowhead? Pueblo El Mirage? Most of the Sun City courses? Rancho Manana? 

 

 

Pueblo El Mirage is definitely in my bottom 10 due to perpetually bad conditions and awful routing through the trailer park despite some decent holes along the way. But my #1 worst course in the Valley is Great Eagle, you may have played that on your "Argonne69's Goat Track Tour" a couple years ago. Even worse conditions on an even worse routing through a crappier trailer park. Except for that one hole along Bell Road they keep looking decent to fool everybody...

[Argonne69]

32 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Pueblo El Mirage is definitely in my bottom 10 due to perpetually bad conditions and awful routing through the trailer park despite some decent holes along the way. But my #1 worst course in the Valley is Great Eagle, you may have played that on your "Argonne69's Goat Track Tour" a couple years ago. Even worse conditions on an even worse routing through a crappier trailer park. Except for that one hole along Bell Road they keep looking decent to fool everybody...

 

Lol. Yeah, that hole on Bell Rd looks sweet. I played a round there with a local resident, and he said it was much better than a few years ago. He said one winter there was no grass on the greens. It was dirt/sand. Oy! 

 

Let's not forget Arizona Grand, Starfire, and Orange Tree. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Argonne69

[puttnforthe8]

Devils Claw at Whirlwind is off CP and in really good shape.  Greens are still slow - looks like they did not cut or roll them in a few days.  They are putting new sand in the bunkers leading to the frequent fried egg lie if you land in there straight.

[YMark]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Boo hiss. Lol. I played Cave Creek weekly last winter, so maybe I developed a soft spot for it. Yes, the greens are a bit goofy, but that's its defense. 17 and 18 are, umm, fun?

 

Sure, it's not Aguila or Papago, but to me it's not bottom 5. Tres Rios? The Legend at Arrowhead? Pueblo El Mirage? Most of the Sun City courses? Rancho Manana? 

 

 

I played Cave Creek today (not my favorite, but it's OK) and the greens person must have been mowing in the dark. There were a few greens where you can tell oil or gas was leaking from the mower and some others where the drive wheel tore up some greens. Overall the course in pretty good shape.

[chisag]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Sure, it's not Aguila or Papago, but to me it's not bottom 5. Tres Rios? The Legend at Arrowhead? Pueblo El Mirage? Most of the Sun City courses? Rancho Manana? 

 

 

... I have not played any of those. Sounds like I should keep it that way. 🤪

[Double K]

Went to go hit balls at Sunland Village this afternoon but they were closed for turkey day. 

 

Booked Aguila for Monday @ 10am

[Double K]

When did Papago get so expensive? I don't remember it being that much to play there. 

[Soloman1]

Every place has gone up. The cost of air and clouds have gone up considerably. No one there or anywhere is getting paid any more, but "We're all in this together."

 

[puttnforthe8]

1 hour ago, Double K said:

When did Papago get so expensive? I don't remember it being that much to play there. 

And prices going up for 2022, 10-15%.....

[fore_life]

4 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

And prices going up for 2022, 10-15%.....

No joke it’s getting to the point where I’ll have to cut my golf in half, some of the(peak) pricing becomes unjustifiable, personally. Local Winter value Dobson has gone up, more expensive now than what Papago was charging locals a few years ago. But at least now they have techno on the range! The pickings are slim and everyone is reaching for the fruit, I’m hanging in there by scoring last minute deal times, booking as a single, playing weekday mornings at Aguila. I don’t mind doing that but I miss playing with buddies, a good morning 4some spot is hard to secure