Laquer finished persimmon sounds muted???

[Hit em good]

Happy New Year gents, 

 

I'm still very new to playing vintage irons (1969 Wilson's) and persimmon woods (MacGregor eye o matics), so this question may just be common knowledge.  If so, I apologize in advance.  

 

My question...,  The persimmons sound muted, and make very little sound, when I hit them.  They are refinished with a heavy coat of laquer, it looks like.  I hit the Wilson Duo Soft balls.  My memory of hitting old school persimmons, with balata's is a beautiful wood "whack" sound.  Is my memory just off, or is it the ball, or the laquer finish perhaps?  I was thinking of buying another set of vintage persimmon woods without the laquer finish, but don't want to waste the money if that is not the issue.  I'd like to get the vintage sound and feel experience. 

 

Anyway, I knew that you fellas would know the answer.  Thanks for any insight you can provide. 

 

Hit em good

[deejaid]

I think what you are referring to as lacquer is actually polyurethane clear coat.   If they have been refinished they were likely done one of two ways; spray polyurethane or dipped polyurethane.    
 

A sprayed polyurethane finish is sprayed with aerosol can polyurethane and is much thinner than a dipped finish which is literally dipping the club head in a can of polyurethane and letting the excess run off.   A dipped finish is definitely more durable but it can end up being very thick if the refinished didn’t thin the polyurethane first.

 

If your club has had multiple coats of a dipped finish it will one not be very attractive as it will look too shiny and thick and two, won’t give you that solid persimmon feel you are looking for.

 

I like doing a combination of both techniques when refinishing a club.   I like to thin the dipping poly and give the club one dipped coat.  This allows the head to be completely sealed from moisture.  I then wet sand that dipped coat and spray 5 coats of spray poly to build up the clear coat without it getting too thick.

 

Here is a set of woods I just finished using my technique.  They finish stays thin yet protective and playable.

 

 

[BIG STU]

2 minutes ago, deejaid said:

I think what you are referring to as lacquer is actually polyurethane clear coat.   If they have been refinished they were likely done one of two ways; spray polyurethane or dipped polyurethane.    
 

A sprayed polyurethane finish is sprayed with aerosol can polyurethane and is much thinner than a dipped finish which is literally dipping the club head in a can of polyurethane and letting the excess run off.   A dipped finish is definitely more durable but it can end up being very thick if the refinished didn’t thin the polyurethane first.

 

If your club has had multiple coats of a dipped finish it will one not be very attractive as it will look too shiny and thick and two, won’t give you that solid persimmon feel you are looking for.

 

I like doing a combination of both techniques when refinishing a club.   I like to thin the dipping poly and give the club one dipped coat.  This allows the head to be completely sealed from moisture.  I then wet sand that dipped coat and spray 5 coats of spray poly to build up the clear coat without it getting too thick.

 

Here is a set of woods I just finished using my technique.  They finish stays thin yet protective and playable.

 

 

Your method brought out the grain beautifully

[deejaid]

5 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Your method brought out the grain beautifully

Thanks buddy.   I’ve been experimenting trying to make the most durable finish will still keeping it thin looking.   I’m going for Dave Wood beauty with durability of a dipped finish.

[Hit em good]

1 hour ago, deejaid said:

I think what you are referring to as lacquer is actually polyurethane clear coat.   If they have been refinished they were likely done one of two ways; spray polyurethane or dipped polyurethane.    
 

A sprayed polyurethane finish is sprayed with aerosol can polyurethane and is much thinner than a dipped finish which is literally dipping the club head in a can of polyurethane and letting the excess run off.   A dipped finish is definitely more durable but it can end up being very thick if the refinished didn’t thin the polyurethane first.

 

If your club has had multiple coats of a dipped finish it will one not be very attractive as it will look too shiny and thick and two, won’t give you that solid persimmon feel you are looking for.

 

I like doing a combination of both techniques when refinishing a club.   I like to thin the dipping poly and give the club one dipped coat.  This allows the head to be completely sealed from moisture.  I then wet sand that dipped coat and spray 5 coats of spray poly to build up the clear coat without it getting too thick.

 

Here is a set of woods I just finished using my technique.  They finish stays thin yet protective and playable.

 

 

 

Thanks much Deejaid.  I knew you and Stu would respond and provide great insight.  Your clubs look beautiful, and look like wood should look.  I'm sure they sound great.  Mine look dipped in poly, and the grooves can hardly be distinguished.  Not sure if you can tell from the pics below.  I'm going to buy an "unfinished" persimmon set.  I'm looking for the old school experience.  Thanks again.  I appreciate it.   Hit em good

 

[deejaid]

1 hour ago, Hit em good said:

 

Thanks much Deejaid.  I knew you and Stu would respond and provide great insight.  Your clubs look beautiful, and look like wood should look.  I'm sure they sound great.  Mine look dipped in poly, and the grooves can hardly be distinguished.  Not sure if you can tell from the pics below.  I'm going to buy an "unfinished" persimmon set.  I'm looking for the old school experience.  Thanks again.  I appreciate it.   Hit em good

 

You could definitely strip those and start fresh.   Never want to give up on a nice set of Mac’s.
 

Now I must ask, is there any epoxy on the face at all?    A common repair for small sections of missing wood or even inserts is to fill with clear epoxy.  Looking at your picture just to the left of the center black circle of the insert, the white section of insert looks a little darker.  Plus the scoring line looks a little wavy like it was recut.   
 

If there is any epoxy repairs on the face it will definitely feel softer than wood.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

@Hit em good

I've not played the Wilson Duo balls with persimmon, but I have played the Wilson DX2Soft balls, which are also very low compression. The sound is very muted with them, so much so that when I am hitting the ball well, my golf mate calls my persimmon driver "the silent assassin."

It's been a while since he used that expression, though😏

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

3 hours ago, deejaid said:

I think what you are referring to as lacquer is actually polyurethane clear coat.   If they have been refinished they were likely done one of two ways; spray polyurethane or dipped polyurethane.    
 

A sprayed polyurethane finish is sprayed with aerosol can polyurethane and is much thinner than a dipped finish which is literally dipping the club head in a can of polyurethane and letting the excess run off.   A dipped finish is definitely more durable but it can end up being very thick if the refinished didn’t thin the polyurethane first.

 

If your club has had multiple coats of a dipped finish it will one not be very attractive as it will look too shiny and thick and two, won’t give you that solid persimmon feel you are looking for.

 

I like doing a combination of both techniques when refinishing a club.   I like to thin the dipping poly and give the club one dipped coat.  This allows the head to be completely sealed from moisture.  I then wet sand that dipped coat and spray 5 coats of spray poly to build up the clear coat without it getting too thick.

 

Here is a set of woods I just finished using my technique.  They finish stays thin yet protective and playable.

 

 

Gorgeous looking woods there. Did you redo the inserts, because they look brand spanking new?

[deejaid]

33 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Gorgeous looking woods there. Did you redo the inserts, because they look brand spanking new?

Nope,  those are the original inserts.   I reset them as well as the sole plate.   Just a lot of elbow grease.

 

These aren’t my clubs, they are a set of fairway woods I refinished for someone.

[Hit em good]

2 hours ago, deejaid said:

You could definitely strip those and start fresh.   Never want to give up on a nice set of Mac’s.
 

Now I must ask, is there any epoxy on the face at all?    A common repair for small sections of missing wood or even inserts is to fill with clear epoxy.  Looking at your picture just to the left of the center black circle of the insert, the white section of insert looks a little darker.  Plus the scoring line looks a little wavy like it was recut.   
 

If there is any epoxy repairs on the face it will definitely feel softer than wood.

I think there is clear laquer type finish over the entire face.  The grooves are nearly all filled in.  

I just picked up a set of Hogan persimmon 1-3-5 a few minutes ago.  The faces looked in good shape and they didn't look refinished.  Only $58, so no harm if they don't work out.  I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.  I may try a different ball too.  The wilson is super soft.  

What ball to you guys use?

 

[deejaid]

55 minutes ago, Hit em good said:

I think there is clear laquer type finish over the entire face.  The grooves are nearly all filled in.  

I just picked up a set of Hogan persimmon 1-3-5 a few minutes ago.  The faces looked in good shape and they didn't look refinished.  Only $58, so no harm if they don't work out.  I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.  I may try a different ball too.  The wilson is super soft.  

What ball to you guys use?

 

I’ve had good luck with balls with high compression/soft covers or low compression/hard covers.  So a Pro V1 works well or Vice Pro Plus which is 105 compression I believe worked really well.   I’ve also hit some long drives with the Wilson Zip which is a great cheap ball for persimmon.

 

The lower compression urethane balls didn’t work for me.  The Chrome Soft was a no go with the persimmon.   The Top Flite Gamer Urethane also didn’t play well, easily 15 yards or more shorter than the Pro V1’s with persimmon.

 

I’ve recently grabbed the new Maxfli Tour from Dick’s and they are promising but haven’t tried them in spring or summer so we’ll see.  Flew well in cooler temps though so I’m hoping it can be a contender.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Just to back up what @deejaid said re. the Chrome Soft, it's probably the worst ball I've tried with persimmon.

I found the Srixon Z-Star OK with persimmon. The Wilson DX2 I mentioned above was OK results-wise, but didn't feel particularly great off persimmon. Good around the greens, though.

[Hit em good]

Thanks for the great insight fellas!  Looking forward to my 1pm tee time tomorrow!  

I hope you all can get out to play too. 

Hit em good

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, Hit em good said:

I think there is clear laquer type finish over the entire face.  The grooves are nearly all filled in.  

I just picked up a set of Hogan persimmon 1-3-5 a few minutes ago.  The faces looked in good shape and they didn't look refinished.  Only $58, so no harm if they don't work out.  I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.  I may try a different ball too.  The wilson is super soft.  

What ball to you guys use?

 

Right now for me the Cally Super Soft or the Srixon Soft Feels--- Mainly because I have won so many of them in the last year or so. I also like the Lady Bridgestone or the Precept Laddie. Now this is just me but the Wilson balls seem clicky especially off the putter

[TheDeanAbides]

Has anyone tried the Titleist Trusoft? It feels like it might be a good ball for persimmon. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

20 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Has anyone tried the Titleist Trusoft? It feels like it might be a good ball for persimmon. 

 

I haven't, but I mean to try them. I have a box of what I think are their predecessors, or forefathers: DT Wound balls.

[TheDeanAbides]

56 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I haven't, but I mean to try them. I have a box of what I think are their predecessors, or forefathers: DT Wound balls.

I used the predecessor to those (the PTS 90 and 100), and these feel quite similar. I think these would fit the low compression/hard cover suggestion that @deejaidmade. I find Pro V1s better in winter though simply because they're a little hotter off the putter. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Has anyone tried the Titleist Trusoft? It feels like it might be a good ball for persimmon. 

Yes, I've been using them off and on for a couple of seasons, nice ball with good characteristics for Persimmon use. I prefer the ProV1 off the irons and on/around he green and use it when I'm trying.

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Yes, I've been using them off and on for a couple of seasons, nice ball with good characteristics for Persimmon use. I prefer the ProV1 off the irons and on/around he green and use it when I'm trying.

Yeah, I've played it for a couple of years too, but haven't had the opportunity to hit persimmon this year. The only difference I can tell between in and a V1 performance wise is the V1 spins a little more around the green, but I'm not a spin player, much preferring to get the ball rolling out. 

[thepunch_out]

9 hours ago, Hit em good said:

I think there is clear laquer type finish over the entire face.  The grooves are nearly all filled in.  

I just picked up a set of Hogan persimmon 1-3-5 a few minutes ago.  The faces looked in good shape and they didn't look refinished.  Only $58, so no harm if they don't work out.  I'm looking forward to seeing the difference.  I may try a different ball too.  The wilson is super soft.  

What ball to you guys use?

 

For something lower compression, soft cover, and a bit more value priced I've also used the Taylormade Project A. I'll usually rotate between those and the original Kirkland 4-piece depending on temps here in Chicago.

[NRJyzr]

On 1/2/2021 at 8:06 PM, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

@Hit em good

I've not played the Wilson Duo balls with persimmon, but I have played the Wilson DX2Soft balls, which are also very low compression. The sound is very muted with them, so much so that when I am hitting the ball well, my golf mate calls my persimmon driver "the silent assassin."

It's been a while since he used that expression, though😏

 

 

FWIW Catchy, I believe the DX2 Soft is the non-USA naming for the Duo, or maybe more accurately the Duo Soft.  So you may have played the same ball.  🙂

 

[NRJyzr]

On 1/2/2021 at 9:57 PM, Hit em good said:

I may try a different ball too.  The wilson is super soft.  

What ball to you guys use?

 

 

I'm a fan of the Duo Professional, the ZStar, and the TP5.  The Wilson does indeed feel pretty soft, and it's in the same zipcode as the Chrome Soft, so those who don't like the latter may not need to try it.

 

The ZStar and TP5 won't give you the wound ball feel, but they will give you something reasonably close to wound ball spin.  IMHO of course  🙂

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

5 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

FWIW Catchy, I believe the DX2 Soft is the non-USA naming for the Duo, or maybe more accurately the Duo Soft.  So you may have played the same ball.  🙂

 

 

That makes sense, because I've not seen the Duo on sale here at all.

I started using the DX2Soft with persimmon sometime in 2019, but I'm not sure I'll continue after my current stock runs out. They're just a little too mushy for my liking off the driver.

[mocokid]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:21 PM, Hit em good said:

Happy New Year gents, 

 

I'm still very new to playing vintage irons (1969 Wilson's) and persimmon woods (MacGregor eye o matics), so this question may just be common knowledge.  If so, I apologize in advance.  

 

My question...,  The persimmons sound muted, and make very little sound, when I hit them.  They are refinished with a heavy coat of laquer, it looks like.  I hit the Wilson Duo Soft balls.  My memory of hitting old school persimmons, with balata's is a beautiful wood "whack" sound.  Is my memory just off, or is it the ball, or the laquer finish perhaps?  I was thinking of buying another set of vintage persimmon woods without the laquer finish, but don't want to waste the money if that is not the issue.  I'd like to get the vintage sound and feel experience. 

 

Anyway, I knew that you fellas would know the answer.  Thanks for any insight you can provide. 

 

Hit em good

maybe your recent memory is of modern metal woods, compared to them persimmon is muted.  I'd worry more about how solid the hit is, esp with hard to hit persimmon.  I doubt heavy coat of lacquer will make that much difference.  Key is that the wood is sealed so no water/moisture penetrates.

[golfunderpar18]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:59 PM, deejaid said:

I think what you are referring to as lacquer is actually polyurethane clear coat.   If they have been refinished they were likely done one of two ways; spray polyurethane or dipped polyurethane.    
 

A sprayed polyurethane finish is sprayed with aerosol can polyurethane and is much thinner than a dipped finish which is literally dipping the club head in a can of polyurethane and letting the excess run off.   A dipped finish is definitely more durable but it can end up being very thick if the refinished didn’t thin the polyurethane first.

 

If your club has had multiple coats of a dipped finish it will one not be very attractive as it will look too shiny and thick and two, won’t give you that solid persimmon feel you are looking for.

 

I like doing a combination of both techniques when refinishing a club.   I like to thin the dipping poly and give the club one dipped coat.  This allows the head to be completely sealed from moisture.  I then wet sand that dipped coat and spray 5 coats of spray poly to build up the clear coat without it getting too thick.

 

Here is a set of woods I just finished using my technique.  They finish stays thin yet protective and playable.

 

 

@deejaid and others —- what brand of spray lacquer are you using - just standard store bought from Home Depot or Lowe’s?  I’m trying my hand at some very basic refinishing of a couple cleveland drivers - my first try.  The original lacquer finish was terrible.  Once removed the persimmons are overall in great shape.  A few areas to sand and some new stain and was going to then spray.  I know Dave wood mentions a certain nozzle is also preferred.   Looking for suggestions.  I’m also not a fan of glossy.  Have  you use matte or satin?  Wasn’t sure if matte would be too flat.  Thanks 

[deejaid]

49 minutes ago, golfunderpar18 said:

@deejaid and others —- what brand of spray lacquer are you using - just standard store bought from Home Depot or Lowe’s?  I’m trying my hand at some very basic refinishing of a couple cleveland drivers - my first try.  The original lacquer finish was terrible.  Once removed the persimmons are overall in great shape.  A few areas to sand and some new stain and was going to then spray.  I know Dave wood mentions a certain nozzle is also preferred.   Looking for suggestions.  I’m also not a fan of glossy.  Have  you use matte or satin?  Wasn’t sure if matte would be too flat.  Thanks 

The clubs I did in the picture I posted were done with one coat of dipped polyurethane that was thinned a bit with mineral spirits and then multiple coats of spray polyurethane.  I use Minwax semi-gloss spray polyurethane which has the nozzle that Dave Wood recommends on his website.
 

 I wet sand 600 grit between coats to level the finish.   I can’t recall if it was Dave Woods website or another that recommended using 0000 steel wool between coats but I prefer to wet sand.  The 0000 steel wool leaves little steel dust on the club so wet sanding makes more sense to me.

 

As for the sheen, I don’t like the glossy look either and do all my club refinishes with a semi-gloss look.   I tried the matte and can look good but it was a little too dull for my taste.   
 

Here is the poly spray I use.  Lowe’s carries it but not Home Depot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by deejaid

[golfunderpar18]

6 minutes ago, deejaid said:

The clubs I did in the picture I posted was done with one coat of dipped polyurethane that was thinner a bit with mineral spirits and then multiple coats of spray polyurethane.  I use Minwax semi-gloss spray polyurethane which has the nozzle that Dave Wood recommends on his website.
 

 I wet sand 600 grit between coats to level the finish.   I can’t recall if it was Dave Woods website or another that recommended using 0000 steel wool between coats but I prefer to wet sand.  The 0000 steel wool leaves little steel dust on the club so wet sanding makes more sense to me.

 

As for the sheen, I don’t like the glossy look either and do all my club refinishes with a semi-gloss look.   I tried the matte and can look good but it was a little too dull for my taste.   
 

Here is the poly spray I use.  Lowe’s carries it but not Home Depot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perfect thx.  Dave recommends steel wool between oil based poly and 400-600 sand paper between water based poly costs.   

Edited January 9, 2021 by golfunderpar18