Wedge shafts "heavier but softer"

[pingnewbie]

So the main recommendation appears to be that wedge shafts should be "heavier but softer" than irons.  What aspect of the shaft gives a "softer" feel?  The tip stiffness?  Bend pt?

 

For example, Project X 6.0 (120g) in irons would mean...Project X 6.5/Project X LZ 6.5 (both 125g) in wedges?

 

Thanks

[cwilk]

Typically, tour pros playing Project X go down a flex.  Spieth - 6.5 in irons, 6.0 in wedges.  Rory - 7.0 in irons, 6.5 in wedges.  However, some play the same.  Rahm - 6.5 in irons and wedges.  

 

Honestly, I don't think it matters much.  Most tour players in X100 shafts play S400 in wedges, but there are a few that also play X100 in their wedges or even something totally different like DJ with his KBS 120 gram stiff wedge shafts.  

 

You are going to see very little difference in wedge shafts unless it's just too heavy/stiff (or possibly too light/soft) for you to comfortable full swing.  Here's just one example of a test:

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by cwilk

[phizzy30]

I like my wedge shafts to be a little softer in flex compared to the rest of my irons.  Softer flex spins a little more for me so it's better for holding the greens especially during the summer and fall here where the greens get baked from lack of rain.  As for weight I do like them to be around the same as the rest of my iron set.  I prefer 125-130 gram wedges shafts playing at D4 in my 54* and D5 in my 58*. 

[markheardjr]

Do you full swing wedges or only play partial power shots? If you often go full speed on a wedge, then maybe stick to your iron shaft. if you like to play more touch shots, the softer shaft can feel nice and load a bit easier for more spin, and I think it makes it easier to trap it low with extra spin.

 

I also feel like a bit of heft helps you continue the swing through rough and sand on slower soft shots. I tried RIP iron shafts once and they were very light for their stiffness and the biggest yardage loss was out of the rough. it felt like the clubhead had no power behind it, like completely counterbalanced.  (Which they were, near a C9 SW.)

 

DG should make an S700 wedge. I use a Nippon prototype that is heavy and in a Stiff flex which to me feels like a heavier S400, ala what I think an S700 would feel like.

Edited January 6, 2021 by markheardjr

[pingnewbie]

Thanks @markheardjr - I'm still confused how a shaft can be heavier but also softer.  Those sound opposite to me.

[Exactice808]

1 hour ago, pingnewbie said:

Thanks @markheardjr - I'm still confused how a shaft can be heavier but also softer.  Those sound opposite to me.

Sorry to seem like a smart...@#$, 

 

To try to respond to your direct point/question.

 

1) You can have a 85gram Steel shaft, in R, S or X flex.  

2) You can also have a 130gram steel shaft in R, S or X flex.

 

So its relative to how you pick your shaft to flex, 

 

Ok in regards to Wedge Flex shaft, someone please correct me if I am wrong,  Shafts start off at a "raw" weight. when a wedge get cut down to wedge weight, the raw weight is reduced.  How much of course is relative as well.  Depending on bend profile and how and where the shaft is cut/trimmed.  This would affect the flex profile of the shaft.

 

Stock wedge flex as an example are bulk sorted S200/S300 shafts,  Generically speaking these are raw 130gram shafts,  Cut to wedge flex,  Now what if a player chose an R300 shaft in their wedge instead.  The flex is effectively "softer" but weighs the same as the S300 and heck the X100 of 130 (raw weight) lets just assume that cut down it weighs 124grams.   

 

So if you move to another company offering  Like KBS, PX etc. its relative to what you pick.   PX rifle shafts basically all start at 120gram,  but there is 5.0, 5.5., 6.0, 6.5 flex, so feel in esscence would greatly differ from 6.5 vs 5.0 as an example. yet the overall weight would be close

Edited January 6, 2021 by Exactice808

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, pingnewbie said:

Thanks @markheardjr - I'm still confused how a shaft can be heavier but also softer.  Those sound opposite to me.

I dont know who told you that up in weight and softer is right, but sure it can be done, not always, and its also a question what we mean by "up in weight"?. Are you talking uncut or net cut shaft wgt?

Example, for steel shafts with the same step pattern, 1 gram of shaft weight is equal to 1 CPM
Shafts like KBS has the same step pattern, and 5 grams / 5 CPM up from R to R+ and another 5/5 from R+ to S etc...

When we soft step a shaft, we move flex average 4 CPM for each time we step it, so SS1 = minus 4, and SS2 = minus 8 CPM. When we soft step we also loose some weight, equal to 0.5" for each step.

Example:
The player plays KBS as S flex for irons, and want "up in weight but softer".
S+ would have a start wgt of +5 grams, but looses 125/38.5 = 3.25 grams pr inch.
(PX 5.0 to 5.5, 5.5 to 6.0,  6.0 to 6.5, or 6.5 to 7.0 becomes the same)

That means a S+ shaft as SS2 will be MINUS 8 CPM or 3 CPM softer, and still be plus 1.75 grams vs irons...

We can use the same scenario for PX shafts
PX 6.0 in irons and 6.5 #8 shafts for wedge, would give 120 gr irons and 122 gr wedge shafts, where the wedges playes to "PX 5.7". (PX 6.0 SS1 would have been "PX 5.6")

The problem is, into wedges we also go up in BBGM = more butt cutt since the tip of the shaft is moved further up from the ground. In general, the difference is MINIMUM 3/8", so in a  set like Dynamic Gold 130 gr. series. when we use the same #9 iron shaft from #9 to LOB in a classic 2/8" between club slope, we loose close to 5 grams from 9 to LOB.

So, the KBS example with "gained wgt" was all gone at the GW....both our SW and LW shaft becomes both lighter and "descending wgt" (we loose average 1 grams pr wedge) even when we use constant wgt shafts, unless we have access to weight sorting where we can start from Ascending weight with 1 grams up for club shorter as starting point to make them "spot on" with the irons.

For short, 5 grams higher starting point is NOT really going up in shaft weight, its whats needed to KEEP shaft weight in wedges in level with irons instead of lighter, so actually going up, makes a need for more than 5 grams....then we run into flex issues, unless DG R flex is a option, and the irons is lighter.

Maybe its for good reasons Dynamic Gold S200-S300-S400 is the most played wedge shafts in the history of golf? Personally im a fan of DG X100 #8 iron shafts for wedge, it will be like S200 for weight, but with lower launch and way more spin.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[phizzy30]

4 hours ago, markheardjr said:

Do you full swing wedges or only play partial power shots? If you often go full speed on a wedge, then maybe stick to your iron shaft. if you like to play more touch shots, the softer shaft can feel nice and load a bit easier for more spin, and I think it makes it easier to trap it low with extra spin.

 

I also feel like a bit of heft helps you continue the swing through rough and sand on slower soft shots. I tried RIP iron shafts once and they were very light for their stiffness and the biggest yardage loss was out of the rough. it felt like the clubhead had no power behind it, like completely counterbalanced.  (Which they were, near a C9 SW.)

 

DG should make an S700 wedge. I use a Nippon prototype that is heavy and in a Stiff flex which to me feels like a heavier S400, ala what I think an S700 would feel like.

Hey Mark, how you doing bro?  It's been a long time since I've seen you post here.  We've had some interesting discussions in the past, but you might not remember.  It's good to see you posting again.  Take care buddy. 

[MPAndreassi]

Personally I play DG X7 in my irons, pitching wedge and gap edge then X100 in sand and lob wedges. I actually prefer a touch lighter in my wedges while keeping lower flight. 

[ChipNRun]

6 hours ago, pingnewbie said:

So the main recommendation appears to be that wedge shafts should be "heavier but softer" than irons.

A couple of years ago, I talked to a Vokey wedge rep about wedge shafts. He said that unless certain specialty shafts really help your game, stay pretty close to your iron shafts. Two main ideas:

• Full shot wedges: If you hit quite a few full shots with a wedge, keep the same shat you have in your irons. (Often PW and GW)
• Partial shot wedges: For wedges you mainly use for finesse shots, go a bit heavier and a softstep or two. This ensures you get good form (weight) and decent backspin (softer) on a partial shot. (Often SW and LW)

[HaggisPXG]

So to follow this, for a player in 115g KBS C-TaperLite x-flex, would we suggest using this shaft in an 8 iron for the wedges, or could you go to a C-Taper in an S or R+ for the heavier yet softer model???...

 

....or something else???!!!!! 

[Drivingrangehero]

3 hours ago, HaggisPXG said:

So to follow this, for a player in 115g KBS C-TaperLite x-flex, would we suggest using this shaft in an 8 iron for the wedges, or could you go to a C-Taper in an S or R+ for the heavier yet softer model???...

 

....or something else???!!!!! 

I have Modus 105s hs/x1 at 1/2” over at D4.5 in my irons 5-GW and Dynalite XP s300 8 iron shafts (ss/x2 approximately)in my SW/LW at D6

 

So, the wedges are 10+ grams heavier, but softer to feel (not sure about softer to flex, I didn’t look up CPM or El profiles) I try to go on feel due to weight and the types of shots I’d be custom to playing rather than flex.  My Gap matches my set irons because I’m taking full swings with it more often than not, my SW/LW I’m 3/4 to pitch, sand or lob swinging 

 

If I played C-Taper lites in x-flex, I would be moving towards a C-Taper or even KBS tour 120 8 iron shafts in wedges personally. 
 

I did the same in my last set 4-PW  that were D2 and had XP 115 s300’s in them, in my wedges I had S300 8 iron shaft in my 56 and 60* D5-D6 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Vokey wedges come with wedge flex.  That is usually modified S300 or S400 to meet Vokey wedge flex design parameters.  I purposely play DG S-200 in LW at 36" length and SW E0, it's still heavy at 129g but tip is a bit softer than wedge flex S300 or S400.  My SW is normally the same shaft as PW-3i.

[Cwebb]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:00 AM, pingnewbie said:

So the main recommendation appears to be that wedge shafts should be "heavier but softer" than irons.  What aspect of the shaft gives a "softer" feel?  The tip stiffness?  Bend pt?

 

For example, Project X 6.0 (120g) in irons would mean...Project X 6.5/Project X LZ 6.5 (both 125g) in wedges?

 

Thanks

 

I you play PX 6.0 in your iron set and want to try something heavier and softer in "feel", try a DG S300 or S400.  The tip section will still be as stiff for full shots, but the butt and middle will have more flex, creating a softer feel.  Something many will even notice on chip shots.

 

I think some are reluctant to match these, because one is stepless and the other is not,....but they really are a good match for this concept

[Manz60]

HI, if you want a softer feel try lengthening the tip section (ex a 5iron ) and increasing the head weight.

 

Hope this helps

M60

[OFore]

I just want to order Vokeys online and want to know what shaft I should be using in my wedges if I was just recently fitted for KBS $-Taper S+ 125? Any recommendations greatly appreciated. 
 

Lots of full shows with my 50 and 54. Mostly partial shots with 58 but definitely may hit a full shot here and there still. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by OFore

[jf72286]

I play TT AMT Black (S300) in my irons 4-PW. I believe  my PW shaft weight is around 113g. I love the flight with these shafts...a nice mid/high launch...GREAT for my irons.

 

However...I play 50, 56, and 60 wedges with TT Dynamic Gold S200 and I feel the ball balloons a bit when I hit full swing shots. I also sense that my wedge swing tempo, for some reason, is quicker than my irons so I'm thinking of going to a PX shaft (or similar) in my three wedges. NOTE: I do also use my wedges on a ton of finesse short games shots ALL THE TIME.

 

Would you all recommend I play a 5.5 or 6.0 in the PX wedge shafts? I feel like either of those weights would still be higher than my shortest iron (PW)...and I do like a heavier wedge. I don't want to play an R flex shaft in any club, but what are your opinions on the 5.5 PX shaft, since it's R+? Ok for my wedges since I'm using a stiff (not x-stiff) in my irons? I know some feel you should softer flex in the wedges....

 

By the way...I'm a low 80's golfer with real nice speed (34 years old).

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by jf72286

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, jf72286 said:

I play TT AMT Black (S300) in my irons 4-PW. I believe  my PW shaft weight is around 113g. I love the flight with these shafts...a nice mid/high launch...GREAT for my irons.

 

However...I play 50, 56, and 60 wedges with TT Dynamic Gold S200 and I feel the ball balloons a bit when I hit full swing shots. I also sense that my wedge swing tempo, for some reason, is quicker than my irons so I'm thinking of going to a PX shaft (or similar) in my three wedges. NOTE: I do also use my wedges on a ton of finesse short games shots ALL THE TIME.

 

Would you all recommend I play a 5.5 or 6.0 in the PX wedge shafts? I feel like either of those weights would still be higher than my shortest iron (PW)...and I do like a heavier wedge. I don't want to play an R flex shaft in any club, but what are your opinions on the 5.5 PX shaft, since it's R+? Ok for my wedges since I'm using a stiff (not x-stiff) in my irons? I know some feel you should softer flex in the wedges....

 

By the way...I'm a low 80's golfer with real nice speed (34 years old).

 

Unless you want a wedge shaft that plays and feels stiffer, the PX will not be a good match to DG in your irons, because the bend profile is different.  The 5.5 and 6.0 will be stiffer in the butt and middle section compared to DG 'S' flex.  

 

 Since you like the shaft you play in your irons, that exact design is the first one you should try in your wedges

[jf72286]

8 hours ago, Cwebb said:

Unless you want a wedge shaft that plays and feels stiffer, the PX will not be a good match to DG in your irons, because the bend profile is different.  The 5.5 and 6.0 will be stiffer in the butt and middle section compared to DG 'S' flex.  

 

 Since you like the shaft you play in your irons, that exact design is the first one you should try in your wedges

I feel that, but I want a lower launch in my wedges...

[Old Tom Morris]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:26 AM, jf72286 said:

I feel that, but I want a lower launch in my wedges...

Probably not going to find a lower launch than Dynamic Gold. You’re probably spinning the ball too much with those full swings.