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Should new irons be this frustrating?


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True WRXers would’ve put them on BST after 9 holes...  

True story.. I picked up a cheap set of used P760's as an experiment that did not go well.    I had them listed by the 8th hole, got a flood of messages straight way, and they sold by the 13

You guys really give a set of irons several months if they are not performing?  I’ll go in the other direction on this one.  If I was really struggling with them I would very quickly be asking myself

What happens indoors, hitting into a LM screen is often different from what happens outdoors on the golf course.  Inside people focus on the club and hitting the ball, outside, they think more about scoring and less about the club and mechanics.  They get a bit sloppy about their swing, least that's what I see with friends when golfing.  Lies and stance are uneven and can be problematic, as opposed to clean mats inside.

 

Also, there's a huge difference between PX 6.0 120g shafts and what ever your 85g shafts were.  Both shafts can be stiff, but profiles can be very different.  Even difference in swing weight of each can lead to problems.  I played PX 6.0 for many years.  They are high bend stiff tip shafts as opposed to most (not all) 85g shafts having mid-bend and softer tip sections.

Edited by Pepperturbo
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13 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Here's part of the problem...  Golfers haven't been known for having reasonable expectations.

Well Ok, the first 'good swing'. Do reallly think a fitted set of irons should take an adjustment period of weeks or months? 

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Being fitted has nothing to do with how long it takes a person to adjust.  Part has to do with your skill, part your head but mostly what you're used to and expecting.

 

I never been fitted, but bought my Titleist 620 series irons Oct 2019, and I feel at times I am still adjusting.  That's why I don't change irons, wedges or putter very often.

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I too have never been fit. I bought my Vapor Pro Combos because I felt I could leverage the better irons over my old school Zing 2's. 

 

I spent a session on the range and hit the course. It took a few swings, but damn I love these irons. Still hit a little off, but that's on me.

 

Would getting fit and buying some based on that fitting have the same results or better? No idea. I might try the PXG's. 

 

I can't see playing something I didn't enjoy hitting.

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you go to Justin Thomas and tell him this new shaft is going to be incredible for him. He pops it on, hits 25 balls and the data is no good, the feel is no good, he's never comfortable with it. its over. thats it. only a soon to be fired club builder would push him to game it for 2 months and adjust to it because then it might be better.

 

off to the BST. we cant all be winners. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

At the top end, a 2-3y draw becoming a 3-5y is basically completely changing their shot shape.  No different the other way as they play the game in inches, we don't.  How was Rory's switch?  Rose to Honma?

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.  Trying to say that equipment caused either of those slumps is a huge stretch.  Could be a factor but we have no way of knowing.  The fact that both continue to struggle from their peak makes me think that it has more to do with the natural peaks and valleys inherent in the game of golf than the fact that they didn’t like their irons (the rose deal was a little different in that it was super weird but that is a unique situation and even that doesn’t prove the irons were the issue).

not to mention the fact that I would bet a lot that the heads are not the issue.  And both players you mentioned could use shafts they are familiar with.  I stand by my initial post that high level pros are ot going to struggle fo months trying to adjust to new clubs.  like everyone else should, they will be fit into clubs that will work as well or better than what they are currently using (aside from a rare contractual thing that has nothing to do with what we are talking about and this guys situation).  Why would you want to get fit into clubs that make the game harder and make you less happy with your shot shape?  Just in case you start hitting them well later, based on 30 minutes off mats?  Especially when they are still under warranty but will not be if you continue to mess with them...

These are not clubs he got a deal on.  He got fitted and paid full value.  The “getting used to” process should be about dialing in distances, not fighting a shot shape you don’t like...

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56 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

you go to Justin Thomas and tell him this new shaft is going to be incredible for him. He pops it on, hits 25 balls and the data is no good, the feel is no good, he's never comfortable with it. its over. thats it. only a soon to be fired club builder would push him to game it for 2 months and adjust to it because then it might be better.

 

off to the BST. we cant all be winners. 

 

 

You don't think that these guys revisits shafts again?

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1 hour ago, kiwihacker said:

Well Ok, the first 'good swing'. Do reallly think a fitted set of irons should take an adjustment period of weeks or months? 

 

Just as Pepper said, YOU have to adjust to the new clubs, even accomplished golfers if the difference is great enough will have a period of time to truly feel confident in a club.  Whether it is a consistent shot shape when you didn't have one before.  Increase/decrease in distance, spin, decent angle, feel, SW.

 

Something that was in your hands for years that you've played with will have you adjusted to that club, you then have to break all those feelings and tendencies with the new clubs.  You can't do that in a short period of time and expect to be fully confident in it... 

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1 hour ago, gwelfgulfer said:

You don't think that these guys revisits shafts again?

Ones that they like... Maybe a shaft that hits controlled boring shots but just isnt quite hitting the ball speed numbers of something else might get put on the back burner. But a few sloppy rounds with the driver, and sure it might be revisited. Maybe an old putter gets put back into play that has 6 wins on its resume after missing some short ones under pressure with something new. but those have to make it into the circle of trust first. Something that just doesnt perform for 2 months over many rounds doesn't deserve to be revisited.

 

 

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Update:

 

Went back to where I was fit for/bought the i210 set and laid it all out for my fitter. We essentially did the fit all over again to confirm numbers...particularly the weight and flex of the shaft. Alas, the original fitting was confirmed on the optimizer (again) and the PX LZ 6.0 came out on top (again). I swung my 7i on the monitor again and got the results I've had for the last few weeks. When I told him that they feel like telephone poles, he handed me something in the middle which turned out to be the AMT Black S300. Immediate improvement on ball striking, ball flight, distance, etc...then came the bad news: those shafts aren't available for the i210 without additional charge.

 

They do, however, come standard on the Titleist T200. So we gave the T200 a run on the monitor and virtually all numbers were where we wanted them to be, compared to the i210. Ball speed higher, launch higher, decent angle steeper. I told him I wasn't ready to give up on the Pings yet, but the more I think about it, the more I'm really wondering if this is as much of a no-brainer as it seems? He has a set of the T200 with those shafts on the rack and I'm standard length and lie, so there would be no waiting period between sets.

 

From what I've read, the T200 and i210 seem to occupy similar spaces in the "iron continuum," but the T200 sure seemed a lot more friendly. I'm unsure whether this is a result of the more familiar shafts, a (potentially) more forgiving head in the T200, or both. Other than the obvious loft differences, is there anything I'm not considering here?

Edited by mahuwf
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My hard learned lesson.... NEVER do iron/wedge fittings off mats. EVER! Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES!

 

-ZA

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Jump on the T200's!

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Are the t200’s the same price as the i210’s?  I thought they were more.  Did you hit the t100’s or t100s?  It would be a tough call for me because I like the i210’s better than t200 and in general think they have been better received, but that is just personal preference.  The t100’s look great, but that is a smaller head.  Did the fitter try you in any of the other stock ping shafts? Seems like the modus or the dynamic gold or dg120’s might work.  Even the project x in a 5.5 might be good...

anyways, it’s good that they are working with you on it and hopefully they get the pings sorted out or the titleist fit your eye.  Either option seems better than fighting with clubs that are not performing.

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4 hours ago, mahuwf said:

Update:

 

Went back to where I was fit for/bought the i210 set and laid it all out for my fitter. We essentially did the fit all over again to confirm numbers...particularly the weight and flex of the shaft. Alas, the original fitting was confirmed on the optimizer (again) and the PX LZ 6.0 came out on top (again). I swung my 7i on the monitor again and got the results I've had for the last few weeks. When I told him that they feel like telephone poles, he handed me something in the middle which turned out to be the AMT Black S300. Immediate improvement on ball striking, ball flight, distance, etc...then came the bad news: those shafts aren't available for the i210 without additional charge.

 

They do, however, come standard on the Titleist T200. So we gave the T200 a run on the monitor and virtually all numbers were where we wanted them to be, compared to the i210. Ball speed higher, launch higher, decent angle steeper. I told him I wasn't ready to give up on the Pings yet, but the more I think about it, the more I'm really wondering if this is as much of a no-brainer as it seems? He has a set of the T200 with those shafts on the rack and I'm standard length and lie, so there would be no waiting period between sets.

 

From what I've read, the T200 and i210 seem to occupy similar spaces in the "iron continuum," but the T200 sure seemed a lot more friendly. I'm unsure whether this is a result of the more familiar shafts, a (potentially) more forgiving head in the T200, or both. Other than the obvious loft differences, is there anything I'm not considering here?

 

When you say Optimizer, do you mean the Mizuno shaft optimizer? If so that thing comes out really stiff. I know a few guys who have no business using KBS 130X and it spits that out for them. It gave me the same results when I was 92mph with a 7i vs 102mph now... so basically I don't trust it at all. If you have to work at the shaft you're not going to hit it well. Realistically, there are probably some things going on with your swing that can be adjusted with a pro, but I'd go with what you're comfortable in. The AMT are a nice shaft but there are other options that are free from Ping. The AWT is really nice, the Nippon 105 or 120s etc. I'd go back again and don't settle until they get it right for you. He's basically proved that he didn't give you an optimal fit. So until you feel 100% confident with them clubs insist that they help you out, whether that means trading them back in and giving you a discount, reshafting or whatever else you need. 

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