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Is a tournament only hcp legit?


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19 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Depends.  In today’s handicap setup.  What’s considered “ competition “ and what isn’t ?  Is a club sponsored comp a competition round ? 

Blade it really does not matter with the new system. C scores are not held in your handicap like T scores were. The only reason for the C scores now is for the player stats ,and more importantly, for the handicap committee to check on players that perform above average in competition rounds.

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I think tournament rounds are all that should count, it's the most legit.  It can go the other way and a person  post only high rounds outside on tournament play. Tournaments are where the money is on

Or you can just follow the rules of golf and post all your rounds like you are required to. 

This is both comical and absurd to me. I'm actually on the handicap committee at my club and a player like this would never be allowed into tournaments. The handicap system is there for a reason and y

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Blade it really does not matter with the new system. C scores are not held in your handicap like T scores were. The only reason for the C scores now is for the player stats ,and more importantly, for the handicap committee to check on players that perform above average in competition rounds.

Gotcha.  Well thats a good thing in my opinion. No quibbling over “ proper T scores “ anymore.     I never got that at all. If If it’s played down and putted out , why does it matter if it’s the USga mid am qualifier or the Saturday morning dogfight ?  Having played in both , I cannot see any difference . Both relied on me policing myself , or rather our group policing ourselves.  Same rules. 
 

anyway.  Good to know.  

Edited by bladehunter

 

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For those of the opinion that ALL scores should be posted, in the Handicap Manual, 2.1b/2, it clearly states that for any round using a DME that measures elevation change the score is unacceptable. Suppose this individual who only posts his tournament scores uses a DME that measures and accounts for elevations in all of his casual rounds, should those scores still be posted regardless of what the Handicap Manual states?

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, phil75070 said:

For those of the opinion that ALL scores should be posted, in the Handicap Manual, 2.1b/2, it clearly states that for any round using a DME that measures elevation change the score is unacceptable. Suppose this individual who only posts his tournament scores uses a DME that measures and accounts for elevations in all of his casual rounds, should those scores still be posted regardless of what the Handicap Manual states?

 

 

 

Being on the handicap committee at my club that would warrant a long discussion. By your logic(and how the rule reads) a player could post whatever scores he wanted by claiming he used slope on the rounds he did not post. We want every round posted.  I understand the use of slope is not allowed but we would view that as a competition rule, not a daily play rule.

 

Edited to add...my home course has little elevation change so there would be very little benefit gained by using slope.

Edited by Shilgy

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1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Being on the handicap committee at my club that would warrant a long discussion. By your logic(and how the rule reads) a player could post whatever scores he wanted by claiming he used slope on the rounds he did not post. We want every round posted.  I understand the use of slope is not allowed but we would view that as a competition rule, not a daily play rule.

 

Edited to add...my home course has little elevation change so there would be very little benefit gained by using slope.

Look at that section of the Handicapping Rules.  It is a scenario where a player was dq'd from a competition for using slope and hence that score should not be posted.  It doesn't sound like a ban on posting scores where slope reading DMD was used, but your reading may be different.

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11 hours ago, phil75070 said:

For those of the opinion that ALL scores should be posted, in the Handicap Manual, 2.1b/2, it clearly states that for any round using a DME that measures elevation change the score is unacceptable. Suppose this individual who only posts his tournament scores uses a DME that measures and accounts for elevations in all of his casual rounds, should those scores still be posted regardless of what the Handicap Manual states?

 

 

 

I would guess that a player knowingly using a slope function to manipulate his handicap shouldn’t be allowed to compete in events. 

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On 1/12/2021 at 10:30 AM, Ri_Redneck said:

See, this is why I asked my question above. I have played in excess of 100 rounds some years and 95% of those are non-tournament rounds. I also travel extensively for work and most of my rounds are played last minute, often at courses I have never played (if lucky, I look at them on Google Earth and take some notes). I try to shoot the best score I can, but with little knowledge of the course and conditions of the day, I almost always shoot higher than I would a familiar course. Establishing my hcp with those rounds and then coming back home and playing a competition on a course I know well would not be fair at all for the other competitors, IMHO.

 

BT

But your handicap would travel and alot of guys dont. 

The slope function on a range finder is a good thing to mention. 

Edited by boyscout
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3 hours ago, rogolf said:

Look at that section of the Handicapping Rules.  It is a scenario where a player was dq'd from a competition for using slope and hence that score should not be posted.  It doesn't sound like a ban on posting scores where slope reading DMD was used, but your reading may be different.

I was going to post the same but found this chart....

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/rules/2019_UPDATE_USGA_DMD_FINAL.pdf

 

Edited to add....we are required to post rounds played by the rules....4.3 states this about distance measuring devices.

 

Not Allowed.
    »    Measuring elevation changes, or

Edited by Shilgy

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10 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I was going to post the same but found this chart....

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/rules/2019_UPDATE_USGA_DMD_FINAL.pdf

 

Edited to add....we are required to post rounds played by the rules....4.3 states this about distance measuring devices.

 

Not Allowed.
    »    Measuring elevation changes, or

Yes, I understand all of that.  However, in the past, even when DMD were not permitted by the Rules (only by Local Rule), the rules of handicapping permitted posting of scores made using DMD.

Since nearly every laser DMD now includes "slope" or slope-adjusted yardage, I wonder how many golfers turn it off in casual rounds that are posted for handicap purposes?  I would suggest that doesn't happen often, but could be wrong.

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Where is there a true definition of a tournament in the RoG? To follow up on that question, do you consider a daily money game played down and by the rules, open to anyone who wants to compete, be declared a tournament? IMHO, yes. The rules are adhered to and enforced and all scores are submitted and posted. Put me in the column for posting and depending on tourney scores for a truthful handicap as anything else is what the player wants to submit, legitimately or otherwise.

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On 1/13/2021 at 6:26 PM, Shilgy said:

Being on the handicap committee at my club that would warrant a long discussion. By your logic(and how the rule reads) a player could post whatever scores he wanted by claiming he used slope on the rounds he did not post. We want every round posted.  I understand the use of slope is not allowed but we would view that as a competition rule, not a daily play rule.

 

Edited to add...my home course has little elevation change so there would be very little benefit gained by using slope.

 

I believe you're good to go (See below)

 

On 1/13/2021 at 11:24 PM, Shilgy said:

I was going to post the same but found this chart....

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/rules/2019_UPDATE_USGA_DMD_FINAL.pdf

 

Edited to add....we are required to post rounds played by the rules....4.3 states this about distance measuring devices.

 

Not Allowed.
    »    Measuring elevation changes, or

 

Ahhhhh, exceptions, exceptions,,,,,,,,,,

 

On 1/14/2021 at 9:57 AM, rogolf said:

Yes, I understand all of that.  However, in the past, even when DMD were not permitted by the Rules (only by Local Rule), the rules of handicapping permitted posting of scores made using DMD.

Since nearly every laser DMD now includes "slope" or slope-adjusted yardage, I wonder how many golfers turn it off in casual rounds that are posted for handicap purposes?  I would suggest that doesn't happen often, but could be wrong.

 

If someone really wants to game the system here in the States they can (usually) do it. It's just that simple.

 

Regarding using slope during casual rounds ? As long as they don't use it during comps I'm OK with it.

 

Anything that produces a vanity type handicap is fine with me. When it comes time they can't USE that advantage they won't be able to play to their 'cap.

 

However, regarding the Shilgsters conundrum 2.1b(ii), during casual play. DMD with slope IS against the Rules however, the very last line says "The final determination is at the discretion of the Committee, based on the circumstances"

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/2 1 Acceptability of Scores.htm

 

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I’ve been in a league in dallas for 16 years. I have over 175 competitive rounds in this league. It’s a net handicap league with 1st paying between $1000 anywhere up to $10k per event. It only uses rounds you play in the league as verifying a handicap. Every single player in that league, unless you’re new, has a handicap higher than the GHIN number on our card. 
 

If you join as a 6, after 4 rounds your tournament handicap will most likely be higher than your 6. Because putting everything out and hitting 3 off the tee when you blow one OB is very real. If I have a good day, I can win. But they only use scores accumulated within the league as handicap calculations. 
 

doesn’t matter if go out next week and throw a 72 down, everyone can run to the handicap director of the league and say “Jay just shot par, lower his HC”

 

Jay didn’t do that in a setting where he makes a 4 footer on 18 he can cash a $7500 check. 
 

I play everything down. I putt everything out. Tournament golf for real cash will make you see what you’re made of. 

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I don't keep a strict tournament handicap, but I'd say that 90% of my scores are from tournaments.  The only non- tournament scores that I ever enter is if I'm playing in a serious match where I feel like it would be a legitimate score.  For the rest of the rounds, I'm either practicing or playing social golf with lots of picking up (especially when best ball), overly generous gimmies, sometimes significant drinking, etc.  

 

I never use my handicap for anything other than to enter gross-only tournaments, but I always viewed it as a conservative handicap that wouldn't do me any favors if I did enter a net competition.  

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5 hours ago, callawayjay said:

I’ve been in a league in dallas for 16 years. I have over 175 competitive rounds in this league. It’s a net handicap league with 1st paying between $1000 anywhere up to $10k per event. It only uses rounds you play in the league as verifying a handicap. Every single player in that league, unless you’re new, has a handicap higher than the GHIN number on our card. 
 

If you join as a 6, after 4 rounds your tournament handicap will most likely be higher than your 6. Because putting everything out and hitting 3 off the tee when you blow one OB is very real. If I have a good day, I can win. But they only use scores accumulated within the league as handicap calculations. 
 

doesn’t matter if go out next week and throw a 72 down, everyone can run to the handicap director of the league and say “Jay just shot par, lower his HC”

 

Jay didn’t do that in a setting where he makes a 4 footer on 18 he can cash a $7500 check. 
 

I play everything down. I putt everything out. Tournament golf for real cash will make you see what you’re made of. 

I won't bother to ask about your, or anyone else's, amateur status (or lack thereof).

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1 hour ago, rogolf said:

I won't bother to ask about your, or anyone else's, amateur status (or lack thereof).

It’s gone. I don’t have it. I get 1099s every year. It’s not something that’s horribly important to me. 
 

you can opt to remain an amateur but if I’m paying $150 or more to play an event I’ll take the cash and write off the golf expenses 

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