Which player do college coaches prefer?

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

Tournament scores

Player 1: average 73.0, range 71-75

Player 2: average 73.0, range 64-82

 

[leezer99]

The one with the better scoring differential in JGS ranked events.

[BFD3]

I think #2. A kid from my club got a scholarship to Stanford based on his ability to go low although he wasn’t the most consistent. In HS, he made ESPN’s play of the day for an albatross on #18 at Pebble Beach. I’m pretty sure he never played a tournament while he was there. 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

The one with the better scoring differential in JGS ranked events.

it's implied they are the same

[DavePelz4]

The one that accepts coaching better, has the desire to improve and the commitment to make it happen.

[VNutz]

I think player 2 will garner more attention. They've shown they can go low and most coaches will think they can help them stabilize the good while minimizing the bad. There's room for improvement and a higher (lower) ceiling there. Player 1 is steady and solid, but it's difficult to drop several strokes when so consistent.

[ChipNRun]

I'm a retired business professor, and have taught golfers at Div. II, Div. III and NAIA schools. Aside from score, considerations would be the golfer's GPA in high school, and whether golf was the only "outside activity. Can the person handle a complex schedule?

 

College sports are time consuming, and college golf is very time consuming. Without excellent time management skills, it's tough to survive academically. Yet despite the grinding schedule, lots of college golfers make the honor roll.

 

Div. III and NAIA golf teams in the US are dotted with players who started out at Div. 1, but crashed and burned in the classroom.

 

I took some golf lessons from the Div. II coach, and had several of his players in my classroom. I asked him at the start of one lesson how the season had gone. Not very well, he said. Two of his seniors had quit school. This broke a string of several seasons when all his senior golfers graduated.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ChipNRun

[Warrior42111]

Great answer from @ChipNRun. I played football in college and unless you're some 4-5 star recruit coaches want players they can develop and not worry about off the field. 

 

In addition to time management and outside activities, coaches will look at what you want to major in. They want 1. players who will have the time to practice and travel and 2. players to graduate as it makes them look good as well.

[heavy_hitter]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, Warrior42111 said:

Great answer from @ChipNRun. I played football in college and unless you're some 4-5 star recruit coaches want players they can develop and not worry about off the field. 

 

In addition to time management and outside activities, coaches will look at what you want to major in. They want 1. players who will have the time to practice and travel and 2. players to graduate as it makes them look good as well.

 

This is not necessarily the case in Women's college golf. 

 

My daughter's coach was forced to resign or be fired by her University this year.  Assistant Coach contract was terminated.  The coaches were all about golf and crappy majors.  Wanted to major in nursing?  Nope

Want to major in accounting?  Go ahead, but you won't be playing on my team.

Accept an internship with a Big 3 during the summer?  Go ahead, but I will dismiss you from the team.

Want to major in Engineering?  Yeah, not going to happen.

 

The coach resigned with allegations of mental abuse, sexual harassment, racism, HIPPA Violations, and breaking NCAA practice violations after an internal University investigation that went outside of the athletic department.  Complete mess at that school and the more you talk to other female players, this goes on a lot in woman's programs in all sports at Universities.  Under paid women's coaches trying to make a name for themselves and climb up the ladder of success to a Major D1 Conference.

Edited January 27, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

I don't think they just look at numbers once they think your qualified.  

 

My guess they go with the person who proven they can be dedicated to golf and do well in school.  

 

I also guessing that at the end up day it is up to the coach. In a lot cases I am guessing picking the wrong major is a reason to cross you off their list.  If you want to be a engineer or Doctor forget about athletic scholarships. 

 

At the end of the day they just have to like you and not think your going to be a problem for them.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

One thing no one has mentioned yet is their ability to win (or lack thereof). Especially in larger or national events when there is more pressure. 

 

If Player 2 is throwing up the occasional 64 or 65, but can't close out a tournament and is always finishing 2nd, 3rd, etc. that can be a turn off for coaches. 

 

Shooting 75-70-71 and winning is going to look a lot better than shooting 65-81-72 and finishing in 3rd after giving away a big lead.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Abh159

[Warrior42111]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

This is not necessarily the case in Women's college golf. 

 

My daughter's coach was forced to resign or be fired by her University this year.  Assistant Coach contract was terminated.  The coaches were all about golf and crappy majors.  Wanted to major in nursing?  Nope

Want to major in accounting?  Go ahead, but you won't be playing on my team.

Accept an internship with a Big 3 during the summer?  Go ahead, but I will dismiss you from the team.

Want to major in Engineering?  Yeah, not going to happen.

 

The coach resigned with allegations of mental abuse, sexual harassment, racism, HIPPA Violations, and breaking NCAA practice violations after an internal University investigation that went outside of the athletic department.  Complete mess at that school and the more you talk to other female players this goes on a lot in woman's programs in all sports at Universities.  Under paid women's coaches trying to make a name for themselves and climb up the ladder of success to a Major D1 Conference.

Good to hear, but my guess is it was the abuse, NCAA and HIPPA violations got them in hot water. I can't speak for golf but I'm sure with your daughter you can. But in my case scholarships were year to year. So unless you were a starter you could lose it the next year and they can just say they think the guy they recruited has a better chance at playing.  

 

Also reflecting back, I get why coaches do it. They're trying to get a return on their investment and they worry about players leaving the team. Hell, I ended up at a D III Engineering school instead and I still left the team before my senior year to focus on academics.

 

Back to the OPs topic, I think this sidebar shows that unless you are the top 1% in your field, coaches are going to look for the safe bet they won't have to spend extra time with. So if you have similar rankings they'll be looking at the outside factors to find the best fit

[j.b.newton]

2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

One thing no one has mentioned yet is their ability to win (or lack thereof). Especially in larger or national events when there is more pressure. 

 

If Player 2 is throwing up the occasional 64 or 65, but can't close out a tournament and is always finishing 2nd, 3rd, etc. that can be a turn off for coaches. 

 

Shooting 75-70-71 and winning is going to look a lot better than shooting 65-81-72 and finishing in 3rd after giving away a big lead.

 This!  They want guys that go low when it counts.  I have known a few college coaches who, off the record, find out how the kids have done in money games as well as important tournament rounds.  They want the potential to go low, but stay low when it really matters.  The guy that can shoot a 65 that shoots 74 when it really matters will be passed over.

[ChipNRun]

4 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

My daughter's coach was forced to resign or be fired by her University this year.  Assistant Coach contract was terminated.  The coaches were all about golf and crappy majors.  Wanted to major in nursing?  Nope

Want to major in accounting?  Go ahead, but you won't be playing on my team. ...

Women's golf has its own problems. Attended school at University of North Texas in Denton. and cross-town school Texas Woman's University did not have a golf team! Still doesn't. And it's just north of Dallas.

 

The university I retired from did not have a women's golf team. I live near Belleville, IL, and play out of Stonewolf GC. Stonewolf and its pro develop quite a few college golfers, both genders. About twice a summer, an area HS girl would come up to me on the range and give me grief because my university did not have women's golf team. I tried to explain that it wasn't my call...

 

One problem for women's golf teams comes if a fair number of the players are education majors, according to other coaches in the area. The ed crowd has a semester of student teaching for their undergrad degree. This means a couple of players could be absent for the spring rotation. And at a Div. III school (no scholarships), women supposedly are more likely to drop off the team if life interferes.

 

The AD at my old school was concerned that the interest "just wasn't there" for women's golf. It would seem to me, however, that women might view golf team experience as a way to tap into the golf zone as they build their professional careers.

 

But as I said earlier, I'm retired now.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ChipNRun

[j.b.newton]

1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

Women's golf has its own problems. Attended school at University of North Texas in Denton. and cross-town school Texas Woman's University did not have a golf team! Still doesn't. And it's just north of Dallas.

 

The university I retired from did not have a women's golf team. I live near Belleville, IL, and play out of Stonewolf GC. Stonewolf and its pro develop quite a few college golfers, both genders. About twice a summer, an area HS girl would come up to me on the range and give me grief because my university did not have women's golf team. I tried to explain that it wasn't my call...

 

One problem for women's golf teams comes if a fair number of the players are education majors, according to other coaches in the area. The ed crowd has a semester of student teaching for their undergrad degree. This means a couple of players could be absent for the spring rotation. And at a Div. III school (no scholarships), women supposedly are more likely to drop off the team if life interferes.

 

The AD at my old school was concerned that the interest "just wasn't there" for women's golf. It would seem to me, however, that women might view golf team experience as a way to tap into the golf zone as they build their professional careers.

 

But as I said earlier, I'm retired now.

Thats an interesting take.  I wonder if it is more region specific in terms of the majors of the golfers, both genders. 

 

Ive been affiliated with several SEC and SunBelt Schools and have met maybe 1 education major.  The ladies teams are usually interested in some allied health field (PT/OT/PA) or business/marketing.  The guys are usually more business geared, but some are in the sciences (1 Rhodes Scholar in Physics/PreMed). They are usually some of the better students as they have had to learn time management and priority arrangement from an early age.  

[ChipNRun]

1 hour ago, j.b.newton said:

 

Ive been affiliated with several SEC and SunBelt Schools and have met maybe 1 education major.  The ladies teams are usually interested in some allied health field (PT/OT/PA) or business/marketing.  The guys are usually more business geared, but some are in the sciences (1 Rhodes Scholar in Physics/PreMed).

The ed major was mentioned by three of seven non-Div. 1 coaches I've talked to about this. I don't know if it's regional blip, or if it's an excuse for not trying to have women's team.

 

Another concern is the cost: my cynical translation, no one will coach the women for free. And you have to buy everyone two white and two blue (home) golf shirts, and provide a pre-round sleeve of golf balls, and charter a transportation bus and fund rooms and food for road matches. 

[MB19]

5 hours ago, j.b.newton said:

Thats an interesting take.  I wonder if it is more region specific in terms of the majors of the golfers, both genders. 

 

Ive been affiliated with several SEC and SunBelt Schools and have met maybe 1 education major.  The ladies teams are usually interested in some allied health field (PT/OT/PA) or business/marketing.  The guys are usually more business geared, but some are in the sciences (1 Rhodes Scholar in Physics/PreMed). They are usually some of the better students as they have had to learn time management and priority arrangement from an early age.  

The only female pro local to us, Jackie Stoelting, was an education major at FL Southern.  

[j.b.newton]

I just looked up bio and she is a Florida Southern (DII) alum....maybe its division level and not region?  I have no clue, but it is an interesting piece.

 

ChipNRun, I think your last post may be the most accurate.  As a non-revenue generating sport, it can get pretty expensive.   Granted, the number of trips taken are not as high as baseball/softball, but they are usually for longer durations in locations that are much more expensive.  Add in the cost of keeping a practice facility, gear (not clubs), and coaching salaries, most programs are well over a 6figure deficit each year....and its a full academic year sport, not just a semester.  Most schools that are not getting the TV deals for the revenue generating sports have a difficult time (unless they have private donor/foundation) supporting sports such as golf, tennis, etc.  

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:36 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Tournament scores

Player 1: average 73.0, range 71-75

Player 2: average 73.0, range 64-82

 

Assuming the coach talked to both of them.  Which one would he think his a better fit?  Some kids come off as little s**tbirds.

[byerxa]

As many have said, the numbers are not the only thing that a coach will look at.  Ultimately the coach is going to go with who they feel is a good fit and has the best chance of succeeding in their environment. The main priority of a NCAA coach is to win, or at least perform the best they can.  It is a juggling act involving many parameters such as what talent they can attract, money available, academic considerations, etc. I don't envy them given what they have to work with and I can see how such an enviroment can foster some of the coaching/program horror stories we've all heard/read about.

 

I can't comment on the mens side, but from what I've seen during my daughter's journey:

• Unless you are numero uno on the team, the pressure to get on the travel team is high. Many times if you don't make it on for the first tournament of the season it is tough to work your way in. This talks to another post about performing under pressure.
• Indeed most coaches shy away from kids who want to take higher load academics such as engineering, etc. It simply tough to do that and be a competitive athelete (but far from impossible).
• One consistent wildcard I've seen for womens golf is the tall athletic kid who has not played golf much but has potential. The hopper for womens golf is so much thinner (~8:5 men:women ratio in NCAA while the ratio at the junior level is at least 4:1 or more) so coaches take more flyers and the taller athletic potential seems to be a fairly consistent trend.
• My kid has heard some horror stories about some coaches in their singular "drive" to field the best team they can. Hard to gauge that when checking programs out but it is important to not get blinded by the pure desire to get on a team when checking out prospective offers. As many have said before it is important to pick a program where you can reasonably expect to play while getting the education you want.

 

[Abh159]

8 minutes ago, j.b.newton said:

I just looked up bio and she is a Florida Southern (DII) alum....maybe its division level and not region?  I have no clue, but it is an interesting piece.

 

We've sort of hijacked the original thread with this topic, but I think this the closest to the truth. Girls (and guys) at the DII, DIII, NAIA, and so on level aren't as likely to try and go pro like high level DI athletes. Therefore, they will be more prone to stop playing at some point during college to focus on school especially considering the athletic scholarship options for those level programs are either greatly decreased or nonexistent. 

 

18 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

Women's golf has its own problems. Attended school at University of North Texas in Denton. and cross-town school Texas Woman's University did not have a golf team! Still doesn't. And it's just north of Dallas.

 

The university I retired from did not have a women's golf team. I live near Belleville, IL, and play out of Stonewolf GC. Stonewolf and its pro develop quite a few college golfers, both genders. About twice a summer, an area HS girl would come up to me on the range and give me grief because my university did not have women's golf team. I tried to explain that it wasn't my call...

 

You also have to factor in Title IX. Although Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports, it does require that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. So if a DII or DIII school doesn't have a football team for example, they have to make up for that by adding other men's sports. They may have to add baseball but not softball, or more relevant to this discussion they may have to offer men's golf but not women's golf. 

[MB19]

I'm not sure FL Southern signs many golfers who couldn't play at D1 schools, as it is one of the best D2 programs.  Lumping it in with DIII schools seems unfair, but I think everyone recognizes they aren't going after the same kids Texas, UF, FSU, UGA and Alabama sign.

[chrissdc]

Player 2

coaches love players who can go low. The team high score gets thrown out every round so the possibility of 2 players having bad rounds is minimal. The really low score can lead a team to a good result.

Edited January 14, 2021 by chrissdc

[Medson]

Just curious. What prevents Player #1 to develop ability to go low, e.g. physical, mental? 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Medson

[tssgj65]

On 1/12/2021 at 8:16 AM, ChipNRun said:

I'm a retired business professor, and have taught golfers at Div. II, Div. III and NAIA schools. Aside from score, considerations would be the golfer's GPA in high school, and whether golf was the only "outside activity. Can the person handle a complex schedule?

 

College sports are time consuming, and college golf is very time consuming. Without excellent time management skills, it's tough to survive academically. Yet despite the grinding schedule, lots of college golfers make the honor roll.

 

Div. III and NAIA golf teams in the US are dotted with players who started out at Div. 1, but crashed and burned in the classroom.

 

I took some golf lessons from the Div. II coach, and had several of his players in my classroom. I asked him at the start of one lesson how the season had gone. Not very well, he said. Two of his seniors had quit school. This broke a string of several seasons when all his senior golfers graduated.

Great post.  Being a good student is a must to handle missing class - usually a couple of days for each tournament.  If they aren't passing their classes they won't remain eligible for long which is a pain for the coach.  Coaches want the athletes that are dedicated to their sport because they love it and will continue to play through graduation.  These kids play because of their love and not just because they have been good at it since High School.  Many start to lose interest as they see the next step is not professional golf.

[tssgj65]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:51 PM, MB19 said:

I'm not sure FL Southern signs many golfers who couldn't play at D1 schools, as it is one of the best D2 programs.  Lumping it in with DIII schools seems unfair, but I think everyone recognizes they aren't going after the same kids Texas, UF, FSU, UGA and Alabama sign.

Top D2 players would excel at lower level D1.

[iteachgolf]

15 minutes ago, tssgj65 said:

Top D2 players would excel at lower level D1.

The top D2 players would excel at top D1 programs 

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, tssgj65 said:

Great post.  Being a good student is a must to handle missing class - usually a couple of days for each tournament.  If they aren't passing their classes they won't remain eligible for long which is a pain for the coach.  Coaches want the athletes that are dedicated to their sport because they love it and will continue to play through graduation.  These kids play because of their love and not just because they have been good at it since High School.  Many start to lose interest as they see the next step is not professional golf.

Was speaking with a coach a while ago and he said college golfers miss more school than any other sport. My sons ears perked right up. Lol

[tssgj65]

11 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Was speaking with a coach a while ago and he said college golfers miss more school than any other sport. My sons ears perked right up. Lol

Spot on.  Every worthwhile coach will tell young men they must be good students - hopefully the athlete will learn that early enough in high school to make a difference in their dedication to good grades.  Sub B students might struggle if they are traveling.  Tutors are available but study skills are developed in HS.

[Abh159]

14 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Was speaking with a coach a while ago and he said college golfers miss more school than any other sport. My sons ears perked right up. Lol

This is 100% accurate. When I was playing we were required at the beginning of each semester to take a copy of our tournament schedule to all of our professors so they knew when we would be out because of golf. If you played in each tournament you would usually end up missing at least 10-15 days of class each semester. 

 

I had one professor who hated athletes and actually tried to report me for “skipping class”. The athletic department quickly put him in his place and he didn’t say a word to me the rest of the semester 😂.