BigTerp's swing journey

[glk]

9 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Yes. What you quoted when I was referencing cast A, shallowing the club, etc. was when I was working on full swings. I've been working a lot on the drill @glk linked though. It's been helpful in quite a few ways. Something I've noticed though is that in a "real" partial swing I need to use my hands more (cast B) than what is prescribed in the drill. As long as I keep that in mind, the "real" partial swings and chips at a distance are really good. That drill has definitely helped me progress with these types of swings.

Actually would prefer the focus be on the right arm and not worry about the hands and do the swings at less than full speed so can feel the motion.

this was posted in another thread but really applies to lots of us - understanding and getting the right arm to work correctly.    An good video and something to include in those slow, partial swings.  This is one of my focus points besides grip/setup and takeaway .  Doesn’t work to try to force the elbow into the side of the body - just get you steep and narrow.

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Yes. What you quoted when I was referencing cast A, shallowing the club, etc. was when I was working on full swings. I've been working a lot on the drill @glk linked though. It's been helpful in quite a few ways. Something I've noticed though is that in a "real" partial swing I need to use my hands more (cast B) than what is prescribed in the drill. As long as I keep that in mind, the "real" partial swings and chips at a distance are really good. That drill has definitely helped me progress with these types of swings.

Cast B during short swings was a game changer for me. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, glk said:

Actually would prefer the focus be on the right arm and not worry about the hands and do the swings at less than full speed so can feel the motion.

this was posted in another thread but really applies to lots of us - understanding and getting the right arm to work correctly.    An good video and something to include in those slow, partial swings.  This is one of my focus points besides grip/setup and takeaway .  Doesn’t work to try to force the elbow into the side of the body - just get you steep and narrow.

 

 

I actually really like using the JR drill/feel for these shorter swings, but that only worked because I trained my wrists to work effectively first. Done correctly cast B will generally be all that's needed if a player is in the correct position at P3. 

[BigTerp1524]

7 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Cast B during short swings was a game changer for me. 

 

Yeah, it really tightens up my short swings. Not so dissimilar, in feel at least, to Monte's UTB with chips and pitches. The drill that I've been doing that @glk suggested has you keeping impact position with the club and hands to 9 o'clock. It works well for me in that it forces my hips through impact and gets me in a good body position and follow through. Overall, that specific drill has helped me improve my takeaway, my hip rotation and pivot and my position through impact. However, it's not good for the cast B portion of the swing. As long as I keep that in mind, and practice shorter swings  incorporating cast B, it's not an issue. I just really need cast B to make good clean contact.  

 

4 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I actually really like using the JR drill/feel for these shorter swings, but that only worked because I trained my wrists to work effectively first. Done correctly cast B will generally be all that's needed if a player is in the correct position at P3. 

 

I've gotten away from the JR drill recently. It's a good drill for getting the feel of getting the arms and club down versus out in transition, keeping the shoulders closed in transition and getting it into a good delivery position. But, for me, it exacerbated my poor hip rotation and pivot. Once I get my hips, weight transfer and pivot really engrained I'll definitely revisit it.

 

You mentioned this to me before, but my feel now for getting the hands working down in transition and keeping the shoulders closed is simply letting them drop from the top using gravity. It's just for an instant at the start of transition, but it really keeps my hands from coming out and my shoulders spinning out early. From there it's a simple rotation of the hips through impact, similar to the cast A drill where you do cast A, pause and then rotate through impact. 

[BigTerp1524]

Have been working pretty hard the past few weeks on what Monte went over with me in my lesson (weight shift, pivot and hip rotation). Finally got some video last night and I'm pretty happy with where I'm at and how things look. My grip change (a little stronger) has become comfortable and automatic now, so one less thing to have to think about. And it seems to have helped improve consistency a bit. I'm not pushing the ball as much as I was before and I really think it's mostly the grip change that's helping with that.

 

Pros from analyzing the video:

- Weight shift is greatly improved

- Pivot is greatly improved

- Hip rotation, both going back and through, is greatly improved

- Overall mechanics (things I've been working on all along) seem pretty solid

 

Cons from analyzing the video:

-Still spinning my shoulders out early. It's better, but I can see they are still spinning out rather quickly

- A little steep with the club coming back down. This one was a bit of a surprise as it was something that's been pretty good as of late. Need to work some on cast A which I'm sure will help work this out.

 

Overall I'm feeling in a pretty good place. Still plenty of things to tighten up, but I feel like I'm at a point in my swing where it's more maintenance and some tweaks here and there versus a massive overall with specific moves. Also feeling pretty consistent with the new moves (weight transfer, pivot, etc.) and they seem to be getting well engrained. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glk]

yep, noticeable difference - can see shift off ball in takeaway and recentering.     Definitely leaving arms up too long and rotation brings them out too much with a steep shaft - thus the late EE etc to shallow and hit the ball - and the scrunched look through release.      A matter of refinements of the general pattern and getting those arms moving earlier - need to get hands just below shoulder level by p5 so when rotation dominates they are not so far out, etc.   A number of feels one can associate - left arm sliding down chest,  throw club behind (cast a) but really behind like trying to put your hands into your right back pocket.   JR drill.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CHgDrU9FGCt/.    Combo or whatever works.

 

JR explaining his drill better - me, i feel like my hands are dropping way, way behind me - like I said, they are going to end up in my right rear pocket.

 

Definitely on a good path.    

 

 

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

13 minutes ago, glk said:

yep, noticeable difference - can see shift off ball in takeaway and recentering.     Definitely leaving arms up too long and rotation brings them out too much with a steep shaft - thus the late EE etc to shallow and hit the ball - and the scrunched look through release.      A matter of refinements of the general pattern and getting those arms moving earlier - need to get hands just below shoulder level by p5 so when rotation dominates they are not so far out, etc.   A number of feels one can associate - left arm sliding down chest,  throw club behind (cast a) but really behind like trying to put your hands into your right back pocket.   JR drill.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CHgDrU9FGCt/.    Combo or whatever works.

 

JR explaining his drill better - me, i feel like my hands are dropping way, way behind me - like I said, they are going to end up in my right rear pocket.

 

Definitely on a good path.    

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I started working on the JR drill again last night after watching my video. I'm definitely getting a little long in the backswing with some arm overrun, like you pointed out, and it's causing my arms to start off from behind in transition. I think it's coming from my feel of getting good right hip rotation on the way back, and it causes me to over do the arms here as well. It's funny, my feeling with the hips up to P5 is a stretch in the right glute and hamstring and the right glute getting around and behind (this causes the fall/weight shift to the left leg). Feels like I'm REALLY rotating the hip back and around, almost too much honestly. Then on video it's not nearly as rotated as it feels, it's just about right.

[glk]

1 minute ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Yeah, I started working on the JR drill again last night after watching my video. I'm definitely getting a little long in the backswing with some arm overrun, like you pointed out, and it's causing my arms to start off from behind in transition. I think it's coming from my feel of getting good right hip rotation on the way back, and it causes me to over do the arms here as well. It's funny, my feeling with the hips up to P5 is a stretch in the right glute and hamstring and the right glute getting around and behind (this causes the fall/weight shift to the left leg). Feels like I'm REALLY rotating the hip back and around, almost too much honestly. Then on video it's not nearly as rotated as it feels, it's just about right.

that feel is something i have experienced - i also feel like getting my right shoulder over the left leg (in the backswing) causes the recentering - i'll stop at p3 and work the recentering to p4 - pausing to feel 50/50 and not over do it.     So right butt cheek feel to target or right shoulder over left foot feel - i have more of a tendency to not extend well so i have to monitor my right shoulder completing the backswing.    

[MK7Golf21]

your right shoulder works out too high on the downswing and then you stall and stand up, that's why it looks like your spinning out your shoulders. You need some secondary tilt in transition, right side bend. You then won't have to try staying closed and dropping the club and hands behind you so much.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Redjeep83

[BigTerp1524]

Monte posted this yesterday. Seems pretty relevant to myself and current swing issues.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTAmZg3P7Kk/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Edited August 26, 2021 by BigTerp1524

[BigTerp1524]

21 hours ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Monte posted this yesterday. Seems pretty relevant to myself and current swing issues.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTAmZg3P7Kk/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

Worked on this feel last night, and wow. It really helped in keeping my shoulders closed a bit longer on the downswing and felt like it really synched things up. Made the downswing through impact feel more powerful as well. Also seems to mostly eliminate me needing to think about and force cast A as much, but need some video to confirm. This is the one thought/feel that has instantly felt "right". So I might be on to something here. Hitting the range this evening to work on it even more, so we'll see.

[BigTerp1524]

Had a free weekend (no kids) so I played a lot of golf. Hit the range Friday evening. Went through an XL bucket of balls working a lot on partial swings with my wedges. Got this dialed in pretty well. Having confidence in my wedges at certain distances (54* 1/2 swing 75 yards, for example) is a game changer. I've even started clubbing up with my short irons, up to about my 8i, and taking easier swings versus trying to get the ball there with a full swing and shorter club. MUCH more control this way and it's been eye opening. Full swing irons went pretty well also. Just was really focusing on my hips and hitting through the ball. Driver was a bit of a mess, and I never really got that dialed in on the range. Probably my most inconsistent club. I attribute that to the fact that when I practice at home I can only swing up to my 4h. Not enough room to swing my driver inside. I've said this before, but I really need to try and find more time for the range or at least the simulator. The feedback with ball flight and turf interaction is something I obviously don't get hitting foam balls into a net. That's great for swing work, and has for sure helped me improve. But the feedback hitting real balls on turf is hard to beat. 

 

Played 18 Saturday morning. Par 72 at 6431 yards with a rating of 71 and slope of 140. So a moderately difficult course for a guy like me. It was a tale of two 9's. On the front my driver was ALL over the place. Left me having to play a lot of recovery shots and I paid the price with 5 penalties. A few mishits with my 4h and a few irons and I was scrambling for, and happy with, doubles. The front went:

 

Triple

Triple

Bogey

Triple

Bogey

Par

Double

Triple 

Triple

 

Went out with a 55. Not how I wanted to start. The back was more the same with my driver, but it tamed down a bit. I was able to play a pretty moderate fade, but it was still leaving me with tough second shots and some penalties. 5 again on the back for a total of 10 penalties for the round. That really hurts the score!! Not a single fairway hit all day. The difference compared to the front was the rest of of clubs were cooperating and I made some great shots following my crappy drives. Those partial wedge and 9i shots really helped me on the back. I was able to confidently attack the green from under 150 yards. The back went:

 

Double

Double

Par

Bogey

Double

Bogey 

Par

Triple

Par

 

Came in with a 47 to finish with a 102. Although my goal is to break 100 I wasn't upset with my score. I was really happy with my iron and wedge play, especially on the back. My putting also really improved. Have been averaging over 40 putts a round since I got my new putter. Ended up with 35, including 3 3 putts. So still room to tighten up there, but much improvement. Overall it was an encouraging round for me.

 

Went back out for 18 by myself Saturday afternoon on the same course. First time ever playing by myself, and I really enjoyed it. The pace of play was nice and I was able to get in a little better groove by not having to wait on others to hit. Just hit, find ball, hit again, etc.  Driver was cooperating much better, but still wasn't quite finding the fairway, just wasn't as wild as my morning round. It did cost me 3 penalties on the front. The rest of my clubs I hit well, especially those approach shots again from under 150. Putting was great and I only had 16 putts on the front, probably my fewest for 9 holes. The front went:

 

Double

Bogey

Bogey

Double

Triple

Par

Double

Double

Par

 

Went out with a 49. Started the back with a Double, Bogey, Par. Then the thunder started and they sounded the siren. So my round was over after #12. A 63 through 12. Was really bummed because I felt like I was getting in the groove and my best golf for the day was ahead of me. Nothing I could do but look forward to my round the next morning, again at the same course. Again, my iron and wedge play as well as my putting was very encouraging. I had 5 1 putts through 12. A few of those were just great putts at distance, but most of my 1 and 2 putts was due to putting myself in good position with my wedge play. Only had 2 3 putts through 12. Pretty good for me.

 

Sunday morning I hit a small bucket of balls before my round (just as the day before) working again on beating up the 100 yard marker with my 50* partial swings, as well as dialing in my 54* and PW. Was feeling great. Moved on to a few irons with full swings and things were feeling good. Hit my 4h and driver and they both FINALLY were going where I wanted. Finished up my warmup feeling pretty confident.

 

Conditions were REALLY wet from the big storm the night before. So much that I had a few drives that plugged into the fairway. They plugged so bad I was lucky to even find them. Went on #1 and hit a 250 yard drive with a baby fade right down the middle. Instantly gave me confidence with my driver. 3/4 swing 9 iron I pulled a little left and into a water filled bunker. Gave myself relief and chipped to 20' and sunk the par putt. Now that's how I wanted to start!! The rest of the front my driver was the best it's ever been. I was swinging it confidently and playing a baby fade and hit 6 out of 7 fairways. The only fairway I missed was with my 4h that I hit 230 that ended up trickling over the hill at the end of the fairway and it rolled into the first part of the junk. So not even really a bad miss, just bad judgement on my part. The front went:

 

Par

Double

Double

Par

Double 

Triple

Birdie!!

Double

Bogey

 

Went out with a 47. Putter was good and I only had 17 on the front with 1 3 putt. Going into the par 4 #10 feeling pretty good about myself. Ended up slicing my driver followed up by a sliced 4i and overshot 54*. 3 penalties on the hole and I finally 2 putted for a 9. Here we go, I thought to myself. At this point I stopped looking at my scorecard. I kept track of my shots and putts, but didn't pay attention to the total. The rest of the back I struggled with my driver, but managed to keep it tamed down enough that I kept the ball in play. Played pretty aggressively, for myself, and it paid off. Having a bit of confidence and committing to each shot was just a different mindset than what I've played with before. It wasn't necessarily intentional either, it just sort of happened as the round went on. The back went:

 

+5 (what do you even call that, LOL!!)?

Double

Bogey

Double

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

 

Came in with a 51 for a 98. FINALLY broke 100!!! I knew I was getting close towards the end of the back, but I just kept playing one shot at a time. That mindset seemed to pay off as I ended with 5 bogeys in a row. Only 1 3 putt for the whole round. A combination of getting better with my putter and my greatly improved approach play from under 150 yards.

 

Under 95 is the next goal, and there is plenty of room for me to tighten things up to get there. One trend I notice with full swings off par 3 tees and full swing approach shots is I'm coming up short more often than not. I know this is a common trend amongst amateur golfers, but something that should be simple to address and will save me several strokes per round. The mishits (tops, chunks, shanks, etc.) are getting fewer and fewer each round. Another trend that will help shave a few strokes. The horrible mishits are turning into shots where I'm "hitting a little thin" or "hit that one a little fat". Much less punishment on shots like that versus the cold tops or straight chunked shots. So things are definitely getting there. I feel like I'm finally in a place where I can really start refining things. My biggest issue is going to be getting my driver dialed in. If I can get that sorted out to the point where I can rely on a fairly consistent shape, there will be no excuse to not be in the 90's. Really looking forward to see how things progress from here. I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right track.   

 

 

 

[bortass]

Congrats and awesome job breaking 100! You'll probably always remember the day you did it too. Did you keep the ball?

 

I'm glad you stopped paying attention to your score after the +5. The more you do it, the easier it gets. I have found it helps me not get frustrated and tank. That in turn makes it easier for me to put in some stretches of decent golf during a round that has issues. It doesn't always work out that way but not packing it in after a bad number is a great skill to learn.

 

I'm also real glad to see the partial wedges and easy irons paying off. It's something that I think you will rely on going forward. You'll build confidence with those swings and eventually you'll feel great with them. It's a game changer IMO, at least it was for me. 

 

I'm looking forward to reading how the next few rounds play out for you. I played some of the most carefree golf after I broke 100 because I didn't care about my score. I had reached my golf and just went out to play and enjoy myself which led to scores in the low 90s.

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

38 minutes ago, bortass said:

Congrats and awesome job breaking 100! You'll probably always remember the day you did it too. Did you keep the ball?

 

I'm glad you stopped paying attention to your score after the +5. The more you do it, the easier it gets. I have found it helps me not get frustrated and tank. That in turn makes it easier for me to put in some stretches of decent golf during a round that has issues. It doesn't always work out that way but not packing it in after a bad number is a great skill to learn.

 

I'm also real glad to see the partial wedges and easy irons paying off. It's something that I think you will rely on going forward. You'll build confidence with those swings and eventually you'll feel great with them. It's a game changer IMO, at least it was for me. 

 

I'm looking forward to reading how the next few rounds play out for you. I played some of the most carefree golf after I broke 100 because I didn't care about my score. I had reached my golf and just went out to play and enjoy myself which led to scores in the low 90s.

 

 

Thanks. It honestly was more of a relief than celebratory. Felt like getting the monkey off my back after getting so close a few times. Yesterday showed me that I'm capable of hitting some really good shots, and stringing quite a few of them together. I'm still going to have my fair share of mishits, bad shots and completely disastrous holes (like my +5 on #10). But this weekend really instilled some confidence that I think will go a long way.

 

Yeah, getting the partial wedges and short irons figured out was huge. Got to the point I couldn't wait to be in range to utilize them. 

 

This weekend was a little different for me with my mindset. I knew I had a carefree weekend with 3 rounds of golf. Wasn't really stressed about breaking 100, but more into just enjoying it. I'm sure that's part of the reason I finally broke through.

[BigTerp1524]

This is primarily a swing rebuild thread, so a few anecdotes from the weekend.

 

-My one and only swing thought was right hip back/behind at the top. Worked really well. Seemed to keep quite a few things in check. Obviously that initial right hip rotation. But that caused the proper weight shift to the front and initiated a good pivot. From the feeling of good right hip rotation at the top, everything just came through effortless and without thought. Great feeling.

 

-On the back 9 yesterday my baby fade progressively turned into a larger and larger fade bordering on a slice. I attempted, once, to really feel cast A in an attempt to shallow the club a bit more, come a little more in to out and hopefully straighten it back out. I ended up bombing a drive probably close to 300 yards with a straight pull (to like 10 o'clock, LOL!!) into the woods never to be seen again. Good reminder that I don't need to be attempting big swing changes during a round. I need to play the shape I'm getting that day and that setup, grip and to a lesser degree basic fundamentals are all I should be worried about.

 

-Stronger grip felt great. Initially it felt terrible 2 weeks ago when I first introduced it. Feels natural now and I think helped me be a bit more consistent.

 

-MUCH more focus on what I was trying to do with each shot versus what I was doing with my swing. This alone I feel was the biggest difference between my previous rounds. Also encouraging that all the things I've been working on are getting well engrained.

 

-Overall I feel like I've built a really solid base that I can start refining. I've still got plenty of work to do, but I've come a long way, the right way and I can now tighten things up on a smaller scale. Pretty confident that small changes/refinements and reinforcements moving forward are going to have a bigger impact than the big changes I've been through the past 8 months. Really looking forward to it. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Congrats on breaking 100!!!

 

Was it the same course on day 2? If so, breaking 100 on a slope 140 course is a pretty strong place to do it. If you can do there, you can do it anywhere.

 

My goal right now is breaking 90. There are rounds where I've "done it", in that I've scored 18 or fewer over par... But it's on an 18-hole executive course with a 99 slope and a longest hole of 317 yards... It's not a valid test of my game, especially since [like most ams] my biggest strokes lost area is the long game. So I won't consider myself having "broken 90" until I do it on a course of somewhere north of 6000 yards and a slope of at least 110 or higher. 

 

So congrats on rising to the challenge!

[bortass]

29 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

[snip]

 

-On the back 9 yesterday my baby fade progressively turned into a larger and larger fade bordering on a slice. I attempted, once, to really feel cast A in an attempt to shallow the club a bit more, come a little more in to out and hopefully straighten it back out. I ended up bombing a drive probably close to 300 yards with a straight pull (to like 10 o'clock, LOL!!) into the woods never to be seen again. Good reminder that I don't need to be attempting big swing changes during a round. I need to play the shape I'm getting that day and that setup, grip and to a lesser degree basic fundamentals are all I should be worried about.

 

[snip]

 

-MUCH more focus on what I was trying to do with each shot versus what I was doing with my swing. This alone I feel was the biggest difference between my previous rounds. Also encouraging that all the things I've been working on are getting well engrained.

 

-Overall I feel like I've built a really solid base that I can start refining. I've still got plenty of work to do, but I've come a long way, the right way and I can now tighten things up on a smaller scale. Pretty confident that small changes/refinements and reinforcements moving forward are going to have a bigger impact than the big changes I've been through the past 8 months. Really looking forward to it. 

 

What about Cast B instead of A to help reign in the fade/slice? That seems to help me a bit with some of my issues but one of my many faults is a lack of a release through the ball, so I leave the face open to the path and off to the right it goes...

 

Focusing on the shot and not the swing is another thing that I feel will be a game changer for you. It's fine, IMO, to look at a shot and think about the swing after the fact. It's about noticing what did you do/not do during the swing and what did the ball do. "The ball went way right and I didn't feel Cast B" or "My weight's on my back foot, I didn't get forward and follow through". File the info away and over time you may start to find some patterns a bit easier. It's fine to remind yourself about this stuff prior to a swing but like you said keep it to one actual swing thought. So as i look over a shot i might remind myself that I want to get through the ball with a full finish but my swing thought in address is "get the right hip back".

 

Keep up the great work because the rewards are there for the taking!

[BigTerp1524]

15 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Congrats on breaking 100!!!

 

Was it the same course on day 2? If so, breaking 100 on a slope 140 course is a pretty strong place to do it. If you can do there, you can do it anywhere.

 

My goal right now is breaking 90. There are rounds where I've "done it", in that I've scored 18 or fewer over par... But it's on an 18-hole executive course with a 99 slope and a longest hole of 317 yards... It's not a valid test of my game, especially since [like most ams] my biggest strokes lost area is the long game. So I won't consider myself having "broken 90" until I do it on a course of somewhere north of 6000 yards and a slope of at least 110 or higher. 

 

So congrats on rising to the challenge!

Thanks!!

 

Yes, same course all weekend. Hitting the range twice last week and playing all weekend definitely helped. I hit some foam balls last night inside, and it's just not the same. It's fine for working on swing mechanics and the repetition at least really solidifies things like grip and setup. But there's no substitute for range time and just playing. Going to try and get to the range more often.

 

The long game hinders my scores as well. Hitting 6 out of 7 fairways on the front on Sunday is quite different than having to hit my second out of the rough, or punching out from the trees. If I can just get decently consistent off the tee I'll be playing a completely different game.

 

Thanks again. I've put a lot of work into this, and it paid off over the weekend. I don't look at it as work though, I really enjoy the challenge. And playing carefree is so much better than stressing about scores. Going to really try and keep that mindset moving forward.

[BigTerp1524]

15 hours ago, bortass said:

 

What about Cast B instead of A to help reign in the fade/slice? That seems to help me a bit with some of my issues but one of my many faults is a lack of a release through the ball, so I leave the face open to the path and off to the right it goes...

 

Focusing on the shot and not the swing is another thing that I feel will be a game changer for you. It's fine, IMO, to look at a shot and think about the swing after the fact. It's about noticing what did you do/not do during the swing and what did the ball do. "The ball went way right and I didn't feel Cast B" or "My weight's on my back foot, I didn't get forward and follow through". File the info away and over time you may start to find some patterns a bit easier. It's fine to remind yourself about this stuff prior to a swing but like you said keep it to one actual swing thought. So as i look over a shot i might remind myself that I want to get through the ball with a full finish but my swing thought in address is "get the right hip back".

 

Keep up the great work because the rewards are there for the taking!

 

I'm not sure on cast B. When I watch my swing on video my follow through is short and around my body versus long and more towards the target. That could certainly be part of my problem that results in a strong fade that can turn into a slice off the tee. I don't mind the fade at all, but getting it consistent is the issue. What's weird is every so often I'll straight pull a drive, and it's usually hammered. Not sure what's going on there.

 

It certainly was nice to play a little more aggressively and a big part of that was my focus on executing each shot. When I'm concerned with swing things it automatically causes my play to be conservative. Not having confidence in the swing is not a good way for me to play. 

[BigTerp1524]

Took @glk 's advice and did some work with my smart ball (generic knockoff) last night. At first I was like "this is stupid, and what's the point". Mostly because it felt awkward and uncomfortable and I thought to myself it's going to ruin all the work I've put in with my swing. So I looked up the drills on Tour Striker's website and realized the whole point of the smart ball is to really work on keeping your arms connected throughout the swing. I looked at my last video and I do get a lot of separation of my arms at the top of my backswing. So I decided to give it a fair chance and worked on 3-9 swings and progressed to full swings. Wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as when I last tried the smart ball. Probably because my swing has improved a lot since then. But I got the sensation of not being able to get a full backswing and quite a stretch getting there. That's when I realized the benefit of the smart ball. By keeping your arms connected it forces you to make a good turn back with the hips and shoulders, where I was getting to the top by more of an arm move and overrunning them. Sort of forces the no turn concept of the NTC by allowing the body to react to the arms/hands lifting to the top. All along, I don't think I've been quite incorporating that as well as I thought. Didn't take long to get decent half and full swings with the smart ball and the feeling was the arms staying connected. Not connected with the body, but staying connected to each other. It seemed to help keep the club and arms in a good position throughout the swing. I remember from the NTC video where Monte demonstrates where the hands/arm/club should be at the top. He gets there from address by radial deviating the wrists, extending the right wrist/flexing the left, lifting the club in front of the chest and then simply rotating back. So at the top the hands are in front of the chest or right pec, versus the right shoulder or even further back as is my case. If you keep the smart ball between your forearms to the top, it's nearly impossible to not get to that good position.  Worked with the ball for 30 minutes or so and then did some swings without it. Could immediately feel the difference. I know it's common knowledge and been gone over and over, but getting to a good position at the top makes the rest of the swing pretty effortless and mechanically sound. This was more or less the feeling I was getting. By not overrunning my arms and getting my right elbow flaring out at the top I'm not starting off with my hands/arms behind. Instead, they are in a good position ready for transition. I think this will help keep my shoulders from spinning out early as it's most likely a compensation for me getting too long at the top. Felt a little more synched up, but time will tell if that's truly the case. Plan to continue working with the smart ball and see if I can get some improvement there.

[glk]

14 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Took @glk 's advice and did some work with my smart ball (generic knockoff) last night. At first I was like "this is stupid, and what's the point". Mostly because it felt awkward and uncomfortable and I thought to myself it's going to ruin all the work I've put in with my swing. So I looked up the drills on Tour Striker's website and realized the whole point of the smart ball is to really work on keeping your arms connected throughout the swing. I looked at my last video and I do get a lot of separation of my arms at the top of my backswing. So I decided to give it a fair chance and worked on 3-9 swings and progressed to full swings. Wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as when I last tried the smart ball. Probably because my swing has improved a lot since then. But I got the sensation of not being able to get a full backswing and quite a stretch getting there. That's when I realized the benefit of the smart ball. By keeping your arms connected it forces you to make a good turn back with the hips and shoulders, where I was getting to the top by more of an arm move and overrunning them. Sort of forces the no turn concept of the NTC by allowing the body to react to the arms/hands lifting to the top. All along, I don't think I've been quite incorporating that as well as I thought. Didn't take long to get decent half and full swings with the smart ball and the feeling was the arms staying connected. Not connected with the body, but staying connected to each other. It seemed to help keep the club and arms in a good position throughout the swing. I remember from the NTC video where Monte demonstrates where the hands/arm/club should be at the top. He gets there from address by radial deviating the wrists, extending the right wrist/flexing the left, lifting the club in front of the chest and then simply rotating back. So at the top the hands are in front of the chest or right pec, versus the right shoulder or even further back as is my case. If you keep the smart ball between your forearms to the top, it's nearly impossible to not get to that good position.  Worked with the ball for 30 minutes or so and then did some swings without it. Could immediately feel the difference. I know it's common knowledge and been gone over and over, but getting to a good position at the top makes the rest of the swing pretty effortless and mechanically sound. This was more or less the feeling I was getting. By not overrunning my arms and getting my right elbow flaring out at the top I'm not starting off with my hands/arms behind. Instead, they are in a good position ready for transition. I think this will help keep my shoulders from spinning out early as it's most likely a compensation for me getting too long at the top. Felt a little more synched up, but time will tell if that's truly the case. Plan to continue working with the smart ball and see if I can get some improvement there.

I still use my smart ball and have a old club with an alignment stick poked into the grip pretty much weekly.   I have a number of good aids - smart ball, driveway markers,ie alignment sticks, gravity fit, visio putting template, and sheftic pressure board - all of which i use frequently (but not oveuse cause ultimately you have to be able to do the nike drill).

 

One note.  On refinement - a small but important detail (yeah the devil is in the details) - the right shoulder blade must retract in the backswing (it goes down and toward the spine).   The left protracts.   You appear to protract the left in your backswing but keep the right portracted also - leads to a steep shaft.     retracting the trail shoulder blade is important in being able to shallow the club - folks that don't are set up for a steep shaft in downswing no matter all the good they may do otherwise.

 

from face on at the top of backswing one wants to see the lead shoulder portracted but also the trail shoulder retracted.

DJ is a good example

 

 

AMG has a recent video on the important motion of the shoulders - note that gif iposted a while back of the Dana student swing his left arm without a club back to left arm parallel in part trains not only pivot but also left shoulder protaction.   

 

 

Tyler has a video on this but is on pay site - free 7 day trial available and he has tons of good short videos on all aspects of golf - one of Tyler's purposes with his book and site is to give golfers the knowledge etc to be able to self manage  - along with interacting with Tyler on questions his site has been a major resource for me.

https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/shoulder-blade-shallowing/

[BigTerp1524]

28 minutes ago, glk said:

I still use my smart ball and have a old club with an alignment stick poked into the grip pretty much weekly.   I have a number of good aids - smart ball, driveway markers,ie alignment sticks, gravity fit, visio putting template, and sheftic pressure board - all of which i use frequently (but not oveuse cause ultimately you have to be able to do the nike drill).

 

One note.  On refinement - a small but important detail (yeah the devil is in the details) - the right shoulder blade must retract in the backswing (it goes down and toward the spine).   The left protracts.   You appear to protract the left in your backswing but keep the right portracted also - leads to a steep shaft.     retracting the trail shoulder blade is important in being able to shallow the club - folks that don't are set up for a steep shaft in downswing no matter all the good they may do otherwise.

 

from face on at the top of backswing one wants to see the lead shoulder portracted but also the trail shoulder retracted.

DJ is a good example

 

 

AMG has a recent video on the important motion of the shoulders - note that gif iposted a while back of the Dana student swing his left arm without a club back to left arm parallel in part trains not only pivot but also left shoulder protaction.   

 

 

Tyler has a video on this but is on pay site - free 7 day trial available and he has tons of good short videos on all aspects of golf - one of Tyler's purposes with his book and site is to give golfers the knowledge etc to be able to self manage  - along with interacting with Tyler on questions his site has been a major resource for me.

https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/shoulder-blade-shallowing/

Thanks. 

 

I saw that video from AMG yesterday regarding how the pro's left shoulder girdle works throughout the backswing. Very interesting. 

 

After giving the smart ball a fair shake last night, I noticed quite a bit of unusual, but proper feels. I definitely think it'll be a good tool to help me tighten things up in my swing.

Edited September 1, 2021 by BigTerp1524

[BigTerp1524]

Been starting off my practice sessions using the smart ball. 3-9 swings followed by full swings. It still feels awkward and restricting, but it's forcing me into a good position at the top and keeping my arms connected throughout. It's been great for that. It does, for me at least, restrict a completely full backswing. Not necessarily a bad thing for someone like me who tends to overrun the arms at the top and get too long. I've just gotta keep that in mind when I'm not using the ball and go for the feel of sort of in between an overly long backswing and restricted backswing with the smart ball. The sweet spot is right in the middle. Probably the biggest thing it's done for my swing (backswing in particular) is preventing my hands from getting too far behind at the top. Getting to this position without the smart ball allows me to easily shallow the club on the way down and feel really efficient throughout the rest of the swing. I have a feeling I'm going to gain some distance if I can get this really dialed in.

 

My improved hip rotation/weight transfer/pivot, etc. has become second nature. So I'm in a good place there. Something that's been lacking, however, is I'm still bringing my hands out versus down in transition and getting the club a little steep in the process. The work with the smart ball has helped here by getting my hands in a good position at the top (not creeping behind) allowing me to more easily make a more proper move to start the transition. I've been focusing more on cast A here as well, and things seem to be coming together rather nicely.

 

One odd thing I noticed on video is I'm swaying to my left leg before my takeaway. It's sort of a pre-move for me to start the weight shift to the back leg during the takeaway. It feels good, but there is WAY too much movement here. Was able to dial it in pretty quickly and eliminate it, but I guess I've been doing it enough that I've got to remind myself to not do it. Highlights the importance of regular video, not just to check in on things I'm working on, but to potentially show other issues I might not be aware of.  

[glk]

 

Definitely need to refine and monitor  setup posture - from latest video you are too close to the ball with too much knee bend and not enough hip bend - butt is too far back.      Shoulder/hands need to hang just past the toes - see photo.   This gives the shoulders the freedom to move and creates the space where arms will ultimately swing.    Right now you look very cramped and even more so through impact.

 

Porzak's instagram video is a good one on how to setup - a nice test that Monte has is when setup take your right hand off the club - it should swing back in line with the grip - if it swings inside the grip you are too close - outside you are too far away.   Video or mirror work too.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by glk

[TheDeanAbides]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:30 PM, BigTerp1524 said:

Had a free weekend (no kids) so I played a lot of golf. Hit the range Friday evening. Went through an XL bucket of balls working a lot on partial swings with my wedges. Got this dialed in pretty well. Having confidence in my wedges at certain distances (54* 1/2 swing 75 yards, for example) is a game changer. I've even started clubbing up with my short irons, up to about my 8i, and taking easier swings versus trying to get the ball there with a full swing and shorter club. MUCH more control this way and it's been eye opening. Full swing irons went pretty well also. Just was really focusing on my hips and hitting through the ball. Driver was a bit of a mess, and I never really got that dialed in on the range. Probably my most inconsistent club. I attribute that to the fact that when I practice at home I can only swing up to my 4h. Not enough room to swing my driver inside. I've said this before, but I really need to try and find more time for the range or at least the simulator. The feedback with ball flight and turf interaction is something I obviously don't get hitting foam balls into a net. That's great for swing work, and has for sure helped me improve. But the feedback hitting real balls on turf is hard to beat. 

 

Played 18 Saturday morning. Par 72 at 6431 yards with a rating of 71 and slope of 140. So a moderately difficult course for a guy like me. It was a tale of two 9's. On the front my driver was ALL over the place. Left me having to play a lot of recovery shots and I paid the price with 5 penalties. A few mishits with my 4h and a few irons and I was scrambling for, and happy with, doubles. The front went:

 

Triple

Triple

Bogey

Triple

Bogey

Par

Double

Triple 

Triple

 

Went out with a 55. Not how I wanted to start. The back was more the same with my driver, but it tamed down a bit. I was able to play a pretty moderate fade, but it was still leaving me with tough second shots and some penalties. 5 again on the back for a total of 10 penalties for the round. That really hurts the score!! Not a single fairway hit all day. The difference compared to the front was the rest of of clubs were cooperating and I made some great shots following my crappy drives. Those partial wedge and 9i shots really helped me on the back. I was able to confidently attack the green from under 150 yards. The back went:

 

Double

Double

Par

Bogey

Double

Bogey 

Par

Triple

Par

 

Came in with a 47 to finish with a 102. Although my goal is to break 100 I wasn't upset with my score. I was really happy with my iron and wedge play, especially on the back. My putting also really improved. Have been averaging over 40 putts a round since I got my new putter. Ended up with 35, including 3 3 putts. So still room to tighten up there, but much improvement. Overall it was an encouraging round for me.

 

Went back out for 18 by myself Saturday afternoon on the same course. First time ever playing by myself, and I really enjoyed it. The pace of play was nice and I was able to get in a little better groove by not having to wait on others to hit. Just hit, find ball, hit again, etc.  Driver was cooperating much better, but still wasn't quite finding the fairway, just wasn't as wild as my morning round. It did cost me 3 penalties on the front. The rest of my clubs I hit well, especially those approach shots again from under 150. Putting was great and I only had 16 putts on the front, probably my fewest for 9 holes. The front went:

 

Double

Bogey

Bogey

Double

Triple

Par

Double

Double

Par

 

Went out with a 49. Started the back with a Double, Bogey, Par. Then the thunder started and they sounded the siren. So my round was over after #12. A 63 through 12. Was really bummed because I felt like I was getting in the groove and my best golf for the day was ahead of me. Nothing I could do but look forward to my round the next morning, again at the same course. Again, my iron and wedge play as well as my putting was very encouraging. I had 5 1 putts through 12. A few of those were just great putts at distance, but most of my 1 and 2 putts was due to putting myself in good position with my wedge play. Only had 2 3 putts through 12. Pretty good for me.

 

Sunday morning I hit a small bucket of balls before my round (just as the day before) working again on beating up the 100 yard marker with my 50* partial swings, as well as dialing in my 54* and PW. Was feeling great. Moved on to a few irons with full swings and things were feeling good. Hit my 4h and driver and they both FINALLY were going where I wanted. Finished up my warmup feeling pretty confident.

 

Conditions were REALLY wet from the big storm the night before. So much that I had a few drives that plugged into the fairway. They plugged so bad I was lucky to even find them. Went on #1 and hit a 250 yard drive with a baby fade right down the middle. Instantly gave me confidence with my driver. 3/4 swing 9 iron I pulled a little left and into a water filled bunker. Gave myself relief and chipped to 20' and sunk the par putt. Now that's how I wanted to start!! The rest of the front my driver was the best it's ever been. I was swinging it confidently and playing a baby fade and hit 6 out of 7 fairways. The only fairway I missed was with my 4h that I hit 230 that ended up trickling over the hill at the end of the fairway and it rolled into the first part of the junk. So not even really a bad miss, just bad judgement on my part. The front went:

 

Par

Double

Double

Par

Double 

Triple

Birdie!!

Double

Bogey

 

Went out with a 47. Putter was good and I only had 17 on the front with 1 3 putt. Going into the par 4 #10 feeling pretty good about myself. Ended up slicing my driver followed up by a sliced 4i and overshot 54*. 3 penalties on the hole and I finally 2 putted for a 9. Here we go, I thought to myself. At this point I stopped looking at my scorecard. I kept track of my shots and putts, but didn't pay attention to the total. The rest of the back I struggled with my driver, but managed to keep it tamed down enough that I kept the ball in play. Played pretty aggressively, for myself, and it paid off. Having a bit of confidence and committing to each shot was just a different mindset than what I've played with before. It wasn't necessarily intentional either, it just sort of happened as the round went on. The back went:

 

+5 (what do you even call that, LOL!!)?

Double

Bogey

Double

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

Bogey

 

Came in with a 51 for a 98. FINALLY broke 100!!! I knew I was getting close towards the end of the back, but I just kept playing one shot at a time. That mindset seemed to pay off as I ended with 5 bogeys in a row. Only 1 3 putt for the whole round. A combination of getting better with my putter and my greatly improved approach play from under 150 yards.

 

Under 95 is the next goal, and there is plenty of room for me to tighten things up to get there. One trend I notice with full swings off par 3 tees and full swing approach shots is I'm coming up short more often than not. I know this is a common trend amongst amateur golfers, but something that should be simple to address and will save me several strokes per round. The mishits (tops, chunks, shanks, etc.) are getting fewer and fewer each round. Another trend that will help shave a few strokes. The horrible mishits are turning into shots where I'm "hitting a little thin" or "hit that one a little fat". Much less punishment on shots like that versus the cold tops or straight chunked shots. So things are definitely getting there. I feel like I'm finally in a place where I can really start refining things. My biggest issue is going to be getting my driver dialed in. If I can get that sorted out to the point where I can rely on a fairly consistent shape, there will be no excuse to not be in the 90's. Really looking forward to see how things progress from here. I'm pretty confident that I'm on the right track.   

 

 

 

Congrats on breaking 100! The coolest thing is that you can see where you could have dropped even more strokes. 

 

I have a challenge for you. Next time out try making the par for every hole one more than it really is. Play every par 5 as a 6 etc. Let me know what you score doing that. 

 

The majority of par fives you'll be able to hit 5 iron off the tee. Par fours will be reachable with two mid irons and a wedge. 

 

My local protégé has dropped his handicap from 20 to 9 over the past two years on a very tough and tight 6800 yard course with small bowl greens by building confidence on his swing. He began by hitting 5 irons from the tee and building up from there. He's now consistently in the 80s with the odd blow up hole when he loses his composure. 

This is how I got to single figures. I told myself that I wouldn't hit driver on the course until I could break 80 with a 3 iron (now that'd be a 4 iron with loft jacking). What this did for both myself and Lewis is gave us confidence in finding the short grass and further confidence in hitting a variety of clubs from different parts of the course. 

I guarantee that if you play the bogey game I suggest that you'll smash 100 and it'll be the most confidence building golf you've ever played. No stress, no snowmen or triples, just simple golf.  

Once you can break 90 doing this you can try getting a bit further down the fairway. 

 

Edit: I met Lewis on the range. He was clearly a beginner and he came up to me after watching me hitting balls and asked for some advice. From there I just worked with him and chatted golf. His best friend took up golf at the same time as him, but is still shooting around 110-120. Why? Because Lewis put his ego away, followed my advice and saw the bigger picture. Dave is the typical am who wants instant results. 

 

I say this because I know that you're after the bigger prize, but it can be difficult to play ultra conservative golf when others are ribbing you. Nobody is ribbing Lewis now that he's a decent golfer with a trajectory that keeps on moving down. Damn, he's even had FOUR hole-in-ones in two years! 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[BigTerp1524]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:00 AM, glk said:

 

Definitely need to refine and monitor  setup posture - from latest video you are too close to the ball with too much knee bend and not enough hip bend - butt is too far back.      Shoulder/hands need to hang just past the toes - see photo.   This gives the shoulders the freedom to move and creates the space where arms will ultimately swing.    Right now you look very cramped and even more so through impact.

 

Porzak's instagram video is a good one on how to setup - a nice test that Monte has is when setup take your right hand off the club - it should swing back in line with the grip - if it swings inside the grip you are too close - outside you are too far away.   Video or mirror work too.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

 

 

 

Thanks. I'll look into this. I don't quite understand the bolded part however. Could you elaborate?

 

I do notice on video I looked cramped/tied up through impact. Something I've always complained about. If a slight setup adjustment would cure this, I'm all for it.

[BigTerp1524]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:31 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Congrats on breaking 100! The coolest thing is that you can see where you could have dropped even more strokes. 

 

I have a challenge for you. Next time out try making the par for every hole one more than it really is. Play every par 5 as a 6 etc. Let me know what you score doing that. 

 

The majority of par fives you'll be able to hit 5 iron off the tee. Par fours will be reachable with two mid irons and a wedge. 

 

My local protégé has dropped his handicap from 20 to 9 over the past two years on a very tough and tight 6800 yard course with small bowl greens by building confidence on his swing. He began by hitting 5 irons from the tee and building up from there. He's now consistently in the 80s with the odd blow up hole when he loses his composure. 

This is how I got to single figures. I told myself that I wouldn't hit driver on the course until I could break 80 with a 3 iron (now that'd be a 4 iron with loft jacking). What this did for both myself and Lewis is gave us confidence in finding the short grass and further confidence in hitting a variety of clubs from different parts of the course. 

I guarantee that if you play the bogey game I suggest that you'll smash 100 and it'll be the most confidence building golf you've ever played. No stress, no snowmen or triples, just simple golf.  

Once you can break 90 doing this you can try getting a bit further down the fairway. 

 

Edit: I met Lewis on the range. He was clearly a beginner and he came up to me after watching me hitting balls and asked for some advice. From there I just worked with him and chatted golf. His best friend took up golf at the same time as him, but is still shooting around 110-120. Why? Because Lewis put his ego away, followed my advice and saw the bigger picture. Dave is the typical am who wants instant results. 

 

I say this because I know that you're after the bigger prize, but it can be difficult to play ultra conservative golf when others are ribbing you. Nobody is ribbing Lewis now that he's a decent golfer with a trajectory that keeps on moving down. Damn, he's even had FOUR hole-in-ones in two years! 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!! Yeah, there were plenty of opportunities to drop my score even lower. The two most encouraging things for me for that round was keeping my driver in play. Exceptionally on the front and manageable on the back. REALLY helped my score. The second thing was finishing the last 7 holes with 6 bogeys and 5 in the row to close it out. Nothing super specific with that run of bogeys other than I found a way to actually play golf, be a little aggressive yet smart and score decently. Goes to show that I'm capable of a lot more than my scores are showing.

 

Man, you're really pushing it with the driver, HA!! Especially after I had the best round with it ever. But I might give this idea a try. I understand the reason for it, and don't disagree. I've got a couple round coming up the next few weeks. We'll see if I can muster the courage to do as you suggested.

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

Thanks!! Yeah, there were plenty of opportunities to drop my score even lower. The two most encouraging things for me for that round was keeping my driver in play. Exceptionally on the front and manageable on the back. REALLY helped my score. The second thing was finishing the last 7 holes with 6 bogeys and 5 in the row to close it out. Nothing super specific with that run of bogeys other than I found a way to actually play golf, be a little aggressive yet smart and score decently. Goes to show that I'm capable of a lot more than my scores are showing.

 

Man, you're really pushing it with the driver, HA!! Especially after I had the best round with it ever. But I might give this idea a try. I understand the reason for it, and don't disagree. I've got a couple round coming up the next few weeks. We'll see if I can muster the courage to do as you suggested.

It doesn't really take courage (after all, we're just hitting a little white ball). If anyone says anything just say that you like to do this exercise to practice hitting from different parts of the course. If you don't beat your best score doing this I'll pay for your round. How about that? 

[TheDeanAbides]

Assuming your round isn't at Pebble. 😄

[BigTerp1524]

8 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It doesn't really take courage (after all, we're just hitting a little white ball). If anyone says anything just say that you like to do this exercise to practice hitting from different parts of the course. If you don't beat your best score doing this I'll pay for your round. How about that? 

 

Deal. But when I beat my best score how about you just tell me "See, I told you so!!" LOL!!

 

So, no driver for all 18. Fair enough. How about my 4 Hybrid? Or is this an iron only exercise?