BigTerp's swing journey

[BigTerp1524]

6 minutes ago, glk said:

Even a bit earlier in swing.

 

Thanks for this. I think when I first started working on the wrist hinge with the NTC, I unknowingly started bending my right elbow along with it. 

[glk]

2 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

Thanks for this. I think when I first started working on the wrist hinge with the NTC, I unknowingly started bending my right elbow along with it. 

I used to over bend my right elbow and suck the club head behind myself early.     In a lesson with iteach we used the stick drill to work keeping the club head outside the hands and to keep butt of club inside ball  but also some straight arm drills without a club -  first time ever really making a full turn of the ribcage - when the right arm stays straight and above the left  longer you can't help but turn the ribcage.   Plus you get width.   It also has the arms in synch with the pivot.

[BigTerp1524]

Had some progress last night. Was working on the weight shift without a club doing different drills, which went well. Got rather frustrating once I got a club in my hand, so I switched to working on my right arm. Worked a bit on some straight arm swings to get a feel for not bending my right arm so much and so early. Tried working it into some dry 75% or so swings, and boy was it uncomfortable/awkward!! Continued working on this and soon realized that I wasn't allowing the rotation to happen and instead I was bringing my arms around and behind. To do this I HAVE to bend my right arm early and a lot. Whether the early elbow bend cut off the rotation, or the lack of rotation caused the early elbow bend, the result is the same. Once I let the rotation happen it came together rather nicely. I was no longer fighting myself to avoid the early right arm bend and I was getting good and full rotation on the backswing. This also really helped with the weight shift back to the left leg. By getting better rotation in my backswing, the fall back to the left leg happens much more naturally for me. The final positive from keeping my left arm straighter and not pulling the club so much behind me is the club shaft is more "steep" and the butt of the club is not pointing so much outside the ball. Still some work to do here, but focusing on keeping my left elbow pointed towards the ground as @glk suggested is helpful. This is also way easier to do/correct without the early elbow bend and not pulling the club behind me as much. It's like I was fighting against myself in several different ways.

 

I know the above is a lot, but it was a few little things that seemed to really add up last night. It's by no means perfect, or even good, but what started off as a very frustrating practice session ended very positive and encouraging. Gives me some things to look forward to working on this evening.

[glk]

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Had some progress last night. Was working on the weight shift without a club doing different drills, which went well. Got rather frustrating once I got a club in my hand, so I switched to working on my right arm. Worked a bit on some straight arm swings to get a feel for not bending my right arm so much and so early. Tried working it into some dry 75% or so swings, and boy was it uncomfortable/awkward!! Continued working on this and soon realized that I wasn't allowing the rotation to happen and instead I was bringing my arms around and behind. To do this I HAVE to bend my right arm early and a lot. Whether the early elbow bend cut off the rotation, or the lack of rotation caused the early elbow bend, the result is the same. Once I let the rotation happen it came together rather nicely. I was no longer fighting myself to avoid the early right arm bend and I was getting good and full rotation on the backswing. This also really helped with the weight shift back to the left leg. By getting better rotation in my backswing, the fall back to the left leg happens much more naturally for me. The final positive from keeping my left arm straighter and not pulling the club so much behind me is the club shaft is more "steep" and the butt of the club is not pointing so much outside the ball. Still some work to do here, but focusing on keeping my left elbow pointed towards the ground as @glk suggested is helpful. This is also way easier to do/correct without the early elbow bend and not pulling the club behind me as much. It's like I was fighting against myself in several different ways.

 

I know the above is a lot, but it was a few little things that seemed to really add up last night. It's by no means perfect, or even good, but what started off as a very frustrating practice session ended very positive and encouraging. Gives me some things to look forward to working on this evening.

arms and ribcage move together.     easy to swing arms ahead of turning ribcage which is what you have been doing - arms get ahead of turn then turn happens and arms come inside, etc     why that Casabella drill with butt of club in stomach is so good - forces arms to move together with pivot and to keep the right arm above the left.     

 

yet another good drill to get arms and pivot in synch - no small range bucket then use a small ball like a dodgeball or maybe  a small wastebasket.     

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Kqcx9FRb-/

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

17 hours ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Had some progress last night. Was working on the weight shift without a club doing different drills, which went well. Got rather frustrating once I got a club in my hand, so I switched to working on my right arm. Worked a bit on some straight arm swings to get a feel for not bending my right arm so much and so early. Tried working it into some dry 75% or so swings, and boy was it uncomfortable/awkward!! Continued working on this and soon realized that I wasn't allowing the rotation to happen and instead I was bringing my arms around and behind. To do this I HAVE to bend my right arm early and a lot. Whether the early elbow bend cut off the rotation, or the lack of rotation caused the early elbow bend, the result is the same. Once I let the rotation happen it came together rather nicely. I was no longer fighting myself to avoid the early right arm bend and I was getting good and full rotation on the backswing. This also really helped with the weight shift back to the left leg. By getting better rotation in my backswing, the fall back to the left leg happens much more naturally for me. The final positive from keeping my left arm straighter and not pulling the club so much behind me is the club shaft is more "steep" and the butt of the club is not pointing so much outside the ball. Still some work to do here, but focusing on keeping my left elbow pointed towards the ground as @glk suggested is helpful. This is also way easier to do/correct without the early elbow bend and not pulling the club behind me as much. It's like I was fighting against myself in several different ways.

 

I know the above is a lot, but it was a few little things that seemed to really add up last night. It's by no means perfect, or even good, but what started off as a very frustrating practice session ended very positive and encouraging. Gives me some things to look forward to working on this evening.

I think this might help you to free yourself up a little. 

 

[BigTerp1524]

Been continuing to work on the weight shift to get the athleticism back in my swing. It's been a tough change for me. Something that I would have thought would've been one of the easier things in this process. But I do feel like it's finally getting there. Have also been working on a straighter right arm in the takeaway as @glk pointed out last week. When I do this properly, I can feel how much better rotation I get in my backswing. This also helps with the initial weight transfer to my right leg (although I still feel is happening a little late) as well as the transfer back to my front leg. The last thing I was focusing on this past week was keeping my left elbow pointed towards the ground in my takeaway to help steeping the shaft and get the butt pointed more inside the ball.

 

I videoed myself last night for the first time in a few days. To me, the weight transfer is getting there. I contribute the improvement here to the drills @glk, @TheDeanAbidesand @mgoblue83 provided, which I much appreciate. The straighter right arm in the backswing has also helped me get much better rotation there and also helped with the weight transfer. As I said earlier, the initial shift back looks to be happening late, but the shift back to the lead leg is looking much better, IMO. A few things I noticed when watching back my swing last night was that I'm not setting my wrists early as I was previously when working strictly on the NTC positions. I blame this on focusing so much on the straighter arms in the backswing. This should be simple enough to fix. I also noticed I'm still bringing my hands and club pretty far behind me from about P2 through P4. An old habit that's tough to get away from. Just something else to work on moving forward. Overall I feel like I'm still making some decent progress. Things are nowhere near perfect, but I do feel like I'm making decent strides and getting closer to putting everything together. Much work yet to do, but fairly encouraging progress the last week or two.

 

Time for a new glove!! Have been putting enough swings in to finally break this one down.

 

Swings from last night. My focus here has been the weight shift/transfer, straighter right arm in the back swing and getting the club butt pointed at/inside the ball up to P3/P4.

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

You're hugely overdoing the right arm straightening. At no point should your left arm be as stiff and locked as it is. Monte makes it very clear that width in the backswing is a myth. It needs to be halfway between where you were and this. It's also leading you to be too deep with your hand path so that the butt of your club is pointing way outside the ball now. 

 

I feel like you've gone off track here and should go back to the strict NTC backswing thoughts. 

 

The wrist set off the ball is fundamental to getting into a decent position. I feel Iike there are too many cooks here. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[TheDeanAbides]

You've also got WAY too much rotation. The NTC is 'no turn' remember? That's for a reason. 🙂

[TheDeanAbides]

Go back to what you were doing on "day 3" but with just a hair more extension away with the arms.

[BigTerp1524]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You're hugely overdoing the right arm straightening. At no point should your left arm be as stiff and locked as it is. Monte makes it very clear that width in the backswing is a myth. It needs to be halfway between where you were and this. It's also leading you to be too deep with your hand path so that the butt of your club is pointing way outside the ball now. 

 

I feel like you've gone off track here and should go back to the strict NTC backswing thoughts. 

 

 

Just now, TheDeanAbides said:

You've also got WAY too much rotation. The NTC is 'no turn' remember? That's for a reason. 🙂

 

I agree with all of this. I've been overdoing/emphasizing the right arm straightening for sure. It's partially by design to get a feel for it. I felt that before I was concentrating too much on the positions of the NTC and was doing the opposite of the above. I now need to dial it back and get a "happy medium" like you said. 

[BigTerp1524]

12 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Go back to what you were doing on "day 3" but with just a hair more extension away with the arms.

I'll work on this. By "a hair more extension" you're saying to not bend the right arm as much here, correct?

 

Another thing, working on the weight shift it also helped to overemphasize the straight right arm, rotation in the backswing, etc. Now I just need to keep the same weight shift/transfer feeling while dialing back the above. I feel like I need to keep things short and compact, while still getting more extension/rotation. This should be where the basics of the NTC comes in. Before, I felt like I was not letting my body react and turn/rotate as it should. Now I'm doing the opposite and over doing both. Just need to find the natural in between here, while still nailing the positions of the NTC. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, BigTerp1524 said:

I'll work on this. By "a hair more extension" you're saying to not bend the right arm as much here, correct?

 

Another thing, working on the weight shift it also helped to overemphasize the straight right arm, rotation in the backswing, etc. Now I just need to keep the same weight shift/transfer feeling while dialing back the above. I feel like I need to keep things short and compact, while still getting more extension/rotation. This should be where the basics of the NTC comes in. Before, I felt like I was not letting my body react and turn/rotate as it should. Now I'm doing the opposite and over doing both. Just need to find the natural in between here, while still nailing the positions of the NTC. 

Making compromises in one part of the swing because you believe it helps in another is just putting a plaster over the wound. Just work on getting the 7 o'clock position looking pretty much like Monte in the video to begin with. 45* rotation in the torso at that point. Get that DOWN so that you can do it without thinking. 

There's a reason Monte does things in the order he does - it's cause and effect. Once you have that down (and I do mean down this time!) just add a small weight shift down into your left foot before transitioning. What will happen is you'll be making the same 7 o'clock swing but you'll have a bit more zip to it. 

So: get 7 o'clock down and swing through using cast B. Once you can do this without needing to check in - your wrist is flat, 45* rotation and butt pointing at the ball or inside, cast B - you can add in a little shift down into the left foot before cast B.

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

3 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Making compromises in one part of the swing because you believe it helps in another is just putting a plaster over the wound. Just work on getting the 7 o'clock position looking pretty much like Monte in the video to begin with. 45* rotation in the torso at that point. Get that DOWN so that you can do it without thinking. 

There's a reason Monte does things in the order he does - it's cause and effect. Once you have that down (and I do mean down this time!) just add a small weight shift down into your left foot before transitioning. What will happen is you'll be making the same 7 o'clock swing but you'll have a bit more zip to it. 

So: get 7 o'clock down and swing through using cast B. Once you can do this without needing to check in - your wrist is flat, 45* rotation and butt pointing at the ball or inside, cast B - you can add in a little shift down into the left foot before cast B.

 

 

Thanks!! Makes sense. I'll do a little reset this week and get myself back to working on the first part of the NTC. You told me before I was getting ahead of myself, and I agree. Although I do think the weight shift/transfer work I've been doing will help this time as I work myself back. I just got way ahead of myself and was trying to incorporate too many things at once, which just caused more problems than solutions. Lesson learned.

[TheDeanAbides]

23 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Thanks!! Makes sense. I'll do a little reset this week and get myself back to working on the first part of the NTC. You told me before I was getting ahead of myself, and I agree. Although I do think the weight shift/transfer work I've been doing will help this time as I work myself back. I just got way ahead of myself and was trying to incorporate too many things at once, which just caused more problems than solutions. Lesson learned.

There's often a little bit of a loss of something when you move on, but it always happens if you haven't done the reps. are you able to hit half wedges outside anywhere? It's always good to get some feedback so it's less boring. 

[BigTerp1524]

3 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

There's often a little bit of a loss of something when you move on, but it always happens if you haven't done the reps. are you able to hit half wedges outside anywhere? It's always good to get some feedback so it's less boring. 

Not currently, yard is covered in 10" of snow. Probably not looking to be able to do that until next month, unless we get a significant weather pattern change.

 

But, understood. Thanks for getting me back on track!!

[mgoblue83]

@BigTerp1524

 

I tried to warn you about this as it's happened to many people but it looks and sounds like you are starting to get lost in positions and swing thoughts. Just remember the golf swing is an athletic movement meant to send the ball at the target with as much speed as possible. You look rigid and slow with your locked left arm and forced turn. Loosen up your whole body and get the speed and athleticism back.

 

IMO the things you should be focusing on are:

1.) Swinging fast while staying balanced (loosen up)

2.) Hitting the center of the club face (foot spray on the face or impact tape)

3.) Having the club face pointed at the target (Ball starts straight)

 

If your swing is "out of position" on camera but you are successful at hitting the golf ball flush at the target then who cares? Everyone has different biomechanics and you need to find what works for you. 

 

You won't find a locked left arm or anything forced with this guy:

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by mgoblue83

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

@BigTerp1524

 

I tried to warn you about this as it's happened to many people but it looks and sounds like you are starting to get lost in positions and swing thoughts. Just remember the golf swing is an athletic movement meant to send the ball at the target with as much speed as possible. You look rigid and slow with your locked left arm and forced turn. Loosen up your whole body and get the speed and athleticism back.

 

IMO the things you should be focusing on are:

1.) Swinging fast while staying balanced (loosen up)

2.) Hitting the center of the club face (foot spray on the face or impact tape)

3.) Having the club face pointed at the target (Ball starts straight)

 

If your swing is "out of position" on camera but you are successful at hitting the golf ball flush at the target then who cares? Everyone has different biomechanics and you need to find what works for you. 

 

All valid points. Thanks!! 

[TheDeanAbides]

11 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Not currently, yard is covered in 10" of snow. Probably not looking to be able to do that until next month, unless we get a significant weather pattern change.

 

But, understood. Thanks for getting me back on track!!

You are most welcome. We had a sprinkling of snow this morning and I already have withdrawal symptoms!

[berndgeurts]

@BigTerp1524 Nice topic. Loving the change already. I can see many similarities with met swingchanges at the moment. 

 

I agree with @TheDeanAbides that getting setup and the backswing positions right, is key for a great swing. Monte Scheinblum has a separate lesson pack in his app for this, worth looking at.

 

keep up the good work. Put in a lot of hours and it will pay off

Edited February 8, 2021 by berndgeurts

[BigTerp1524]

33 minutes ago, berndgeurts said:

@BigTerp1524 Nice topic. Loving the change already. I can see many similarities with met swingchanges at the moment. 

 

I agree with @TheDeanAbides that getting setup and the backswing positions right, is key for a great swing. Monte Scheinblum has a separate lesson pack in his app for this, worth looking at.

 

keep up the good work. Put in a lot of hours and it will pay off

Appreciate the encouragement. Thanks!!

[glk]

That is the rotation you need.         That is making a full turn with the ribcage etc.    Yes, you have gotten away from setting the wrists early and caused a float load pattern.    But the journey to improvement is filled with up and downs - lots of moving parts and it is not untypical that getting something in the right direction can have others things revert.        Keeping the right arm straight can get you to get arms too inside - i went through the same pattern - too inside, not inside, just right -  this isn't going to come together in a few sessions, in a few weeks.    You get what a full turn is now - can see that right scapula at the top during transition - this is a good thing.      Getting the arms to move correctly with this pivot is a further refinement - wrists setting club more vertically, trying swings that arms don't go inside, not rolling the left arm, etc.   These things take time - I spent 6 months on setup alone - I was to upright, Monte got me into a great position, next lesson I was too bent over, it took time.     

 

Frankly the best thing you could do would be to invest in an online live lesson with Monte - problem with trying to do this by oneself is that we are trying to make a motion that we have not experienced so we don't know what is good and what is not - in a lesson you will get to make that motion under the guidance of a good instructor and make it multiple times - he would walk you through it and make sure you are doing it correctly - something this back and forth and sharing videos can't really do.

 

 

This is a much better  pivot - it is not too much rotation - just that your arms are too inside, left arm is rolled versus elbow down, and wrists not set enough.

 left arm straight down the line.

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, glk said:

This is a much better  pivot - it is not too much rotation - just that your arms are too inside, left arm is rolled versus elbow down, and wrists not set enough.

 

Yeah, these are the three main things I noticed when watching myself back. Appreciate the well thought out response!!

[glk]

Just now, BigTerp1524 said:

 

Yeah, these are the three main things I noticed when watching myself back. Appreciate the well thought out response!!

I go through similar patterns myself and probably always will as long as I continue to play - my body pivot has been easier to be consistent (though even there I fell back on not extending well with my hips and toros recently) but I have to pay attention to my right arm cause I too used to bend it and get inside.    Heck, I have to pay attention to my arms/wrists more than anything else - just like pretty much every golfer.  From where you started you've come a long, long way. 

[BigTerp1524]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

I go through similar patterns myself and probably always will as long as I continue to play - my body pivot has been easier to be consistent (though even there I fell back on not extending well with my hips and toros recently) but I have to pay attention to my right arm cause I too used to bend it and get inside.    Heck, I have to pay attention to my arms/wrists more than anything else - just like pretty much every golfer.  From where you started you've come a long, long way. 

Thank you!! Encouraging and motivating to hear things like this. I also really appreciate you guys busting my balls when needed though too. You all have been a tremendous help!!

[TheDeanAbides]

At this point with you getting conflicting advice from myself and glk, I agree that you would be well advised to get a lesson with Monte because I disagree with glk. I think that at 7 o'clock you want to be looking for 45* of rotation and he thinks more than that is ideal. It's the whole too many cooks thing. 

This is the problem with asking for advice on a forum - you get conflicting advice and end up bouncing between ideas and totally lost. Both glk and I follow Monte and we're disagreeing on a fundamental part of the swing, so what chance do you have? 

If you're serious get a lesson. 

[BigTerp1524]

35 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

At this point with you getting conflicting advice from myself and glk, I agree that you would be well advised to get a lesson with Monte because I disagree with glk. I think that at 7 o'clock you want to be looking for 45* of rotation and he thinks more than that is ideal. It's the whole too many cooks thing. 

This is the problem with asking for advice on a forum - you get conflicting advice and end up bouncing between ideas and totally lost. Both glk and I follow Monte and we're disagreeing on a fundamental part of the swing, so what chance do you have? 

If you're serious get a lesson. 

 

Yep, understood. I certainly don't think anyone is being disingenuous or anything. Just two different views, thoughts, etc. on the swing. I'm going to keep working through this on my own for now. I am considering an online lesson with Monte when I can find the time for that in the future. 

 

Agreed that there have been many different thoughts throughout this thread, and not just from you two guys. Yes, some of it has made things a bit confusing, but overall I appreciate the varied thoughts. I just need to understand what works for me and go from there. Everyone has been super helpful thus far, and I greatly appreciate it!!

[TheDeanAbides]

Oh, we're all trying to help as best we can. The annoying but wonderful thing about golf is that there are loads of effective ways to get the club on the ball efficiently, repeatably and with power, and many people think their way is the correct way. We have a few of them here (and I have them on ignore!). 

[games]

@BigTerp1524 I really enjoy reading @glk and @TheDeanAbides posts on this and other threads.

 

@mgoblue83 may have had the best advice by telling you to keep being an athlete.

 

The only things I can add:

1. Get some online lesson time with Monte.  Come back to this thread with what he said so all of the folks who helped you here can get feedback.

2. Once a week, I would revisit the initial moves you started your journey with.  You're still "building up myelin" on this swing, and you don't want to revert or compromise something you picked up really quickly by changing it to accommodate something later in the swing.

 

Keep at it!  

[TheDeanAbides]

23 minutes ago, games said:

@BigTerp1524 I really enjoy reading @glk and @TheDeanAbides posts on this and other threads.

 

@mgoblue83 may have had the best advice by telling you to keep being an athlete.

 

The only things I can add:

1. Get some online lesson time with Monte.  Come back to this thread with what he said so all of the folks who helped you here can get feedback.

2. Once a week, I would revisit the initial moves you started your journey with.  You're still "building up myelin" on this swing, and you don't want to revert or compromise something you picked up really quickly by changing it to accommodate something later in the swing.

 

Keep at it!  

This is essentially what I suggested in PM. 👍🏻

[BigTerp1524]

On 2/13/2021 at 9:28 AM, games said:

2. Once a week, I would revisit the initial moves you started your journey with.  You're still "building up myelin" on this swing, and you don't want to revert or compromise something you picked up really quickly by changing it to accommodate something later in the swing.

 

Keep at it!  

 

Thanks!! This is pretty much where I'm at at this point. I definitely got ahead of myself, and the first part(s) of my swing were breaking back down as I was working on other things too quickly. I've been working mostly on the 7 o'clock position lately. Really focusing on a few things. Those include, proper wrist set, less right arm bend in the takeaway, better shaft position at 7 o'clock (butt pointed towards/inside ball) and better rotation here as well. I'm really trying to get this portion of the swing engrained as much as possible so it becomes automatic. This is all getting much better, IMO, and is really starting to feel more natural/automatic. But the main focus has been on the shift and recentering. This is where I was loosing the athletic part of my swing. @TheDeanAbidessuggested a video/drill from AMG that really seemed to help. I've been working on the 7 o'clock position by doing half to 3/4 swings focusing on the above while really trying to get a good feel for the shift and recentering. This part has been tough, but I do feel like it's getting better. One thing I've noticed that I've started doing is a little shift forward before the takeaway. This seems to help initiate the shift back during the takeaway. Not sure if this is setting up a bad habit, but it does feel better/more natural for me. 

 

Plan moving forward is to continue the above. I feel like mechanically, the first part of the NTC (to 7 o'clock) is almost there. But I need to get the shift happening better to keep my swing more athletic, as everyone has mentioned. Again, for whatever reason, I seem to fight myself here and not let it happen. Once I get a better feel for this I can continue on to the 8 o'clock position. My hope is that by getting the shift and recentering happening at 7, it'll be a simple move to get to 8. At this point I should be in a much better position both mechanically and athletically than before (better rotation, better weight shift and recentering, etc.) to start working on the transition.

 

And yes, yourself @games @glk @TheDeanAbides @mgoblue83and several others have been EXTREMELY helpful throughout this process. It is all VERY MUCH appreciated!!! 

 

Drill from AMG - https://www.instagram.com/p/CLEt9U6D2RZ/?igshid=17ytupbjbhfg8

 

Some swings from last night working on the above.