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I am an aspiring professional golfer who moved to North Phoenix from Seattle to play mini tour events this year. I am looking for a club to practice and play at public or private. My budget is around 5-6k a year max including green fees if its a public track. I know many of the courses in this area have full memberships already so I am guessing my options are limited. 

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Exactly, and from what I've heard in the past year or two, they already have enough members packed into Arrowhead CC to basically fill both courses.   It is a shame, because both facilities

$6kish a year with a waiting list a mile long last I heard.

You are probably looking at something like the Talking Stick range pass an than playing where ever you can get a good deal on GolfNow or something like that if you are trying to be $5 to 6K.  In transparency that is a extremely low budget for this area given how high in-season rate are.  About the only place I can think of on the private side would be Arrowhead Country Club, not great but in budget.  You wont be impressed with the practice facilitates but if you plan to play a lot your bang for buck is high. 

Edited by Twinsgroupie
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7 hours ago, Twinsgroupie said:

You are probably looking at something like the Talking Stick range pass an than playing where ever you can get a good deal on GolfNow or something like that if you are trying to be $5 to 6K.  In transparency that is a extremely low budget for this area given how high in-season rate are.  About the only place I can think of on the private side would be Arrowhead Country Club, not great but in budget.  You wont be impressed with the practice facilitates but if you plan to play a lot your bang for buck is high. 

Arrowhead CC rates are going to increase soon, letters were sent to membership. I’m unsure exactly how much but probably a significant amount if I had to guess.
 

They are buying out or already bought out Legend of Arrowhead and that is going private as well and there will be 2 courses under the same umbrella. 
 

I can’t even begin to think of how much money they are going to have to sink into Legend in order to make it even halfway decent. 

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Dexter... Its Jeff, haha.... 

 

I was just looking at the Kierland program... 

 

Kierland isn't the most ideal as far as the courses are concerned, but miles ahead of where you're coming from. They do have a decent/ok practice facility though. Monday-Thur program may work. Close-ish to where u live. But you and your GF could split and both sign up, would be 7day/week at 9k divided by 2. They may have some perks coming from a Troon club. TPC Scottsdale also has a partial week program also, as well as a champions course only pass. Cant find the $ on it. 

 

And you're welcome with me at Grayhawk anytime, I can bring guest to practice facility also 🙂  

 

This is Kierland: 

2021 Tartan Club Annual Pass (7 days per week):

New Participant Price: $6,500 + applicable taxes

Renewal Price for 2020 Participants: $6,300 + applicable taxes (Must renew prior to December 31st, 2020)

Add a Spouse: $2,400 + applicable taxes

Add a Child (Ages 18 and under): $1,000 + applicable taxes

 

2021 Tartan Club Weekday Annual Pass (Monday-Thursday Only):

New Participant Price: $4,500 + applicable taxes

Add a Spouse: $2,000 + applicable taxes

Add a Child (Ages 18 and under): $1,000+ applicable taxes

 

Benefits:

Complimentary Greens Fees when walking

$25+tax Cart Fee per round when utilizing a golf cart

Push/Pull Carts Complimentary based upon availability

7 Day advance booking window

Complimentary practice facility access

Golf bag storage

Optional direct bill account

Special guest rates

20% off Food & Beverage at Resort Outlets

20% off select services at Agave, The Arizona Spa

Preferred Troon Card pricing with purchase of pass

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13 hours ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Arrowhead CC rates are going to increase soon, letters were sent to membership. I’m unsure exactly how much but probably a significant amount if I had to guess.
 

They are buying out or already bought out Legend of Arrowhead and that is going private as well and there will be 2 courses under the same umbrella. 
 

I can’t even begin to think of how much money they are going to have to sink into Legend in order to make it even halfway decent. 

My guess is they will put $0 into it and just charge more.  Seems to be the Arcis way. 

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23 minutes ago, Twinsgroupie said:

My guess is they will put $0 into it and just charge more.  Seems to be the Arcis way. 

 

Exactly, and from what I've heard in the past year or two, they already have enough members packed into Arrowhead CC to basically fill both courses.

 

It is a shame, because both facilities have such great potential and are in excellent locations. If a more member-friendly entity controlled them, charged more, limited the number of members so the tee sheet isn't full all day, and put some money into the courses (Legend needs all new bunkers and a war on geese, for starters), I'd consider membership. That is basically the opposite of Arcis' M. O. - price it cheap and pack 'em deep.

Edited by Bonneville85308
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13 hours ago, HarringtonREI said:

Dexter... Its Jeff, haha.... 

 

I was just looking at the Kierland program... 

 

Kierland isn't the most ideal as far as the courses are concerned, but miles ahead of where you're coming from. They do have a decent/ok practice facility though. Monday-Thur program may work. Close-ish to where u live. But you and your GF could split and both sign up, would be 7day/week at 9k divided by 2. They may have some perks coming from a Troon club. TPC Scottsdale also has a partial week program also, as well as a champions course only pass. Cant find the $ on it. 

 

And you're welcome with me at Grayhawk anytime, I can bring guest to practice facility also 🙂  

 

This is Kierland: 

2021 Tartan Club Annual Pass (7 days per week):

New Participant Price: $6,500 + applicable taxes

Renewal Price for 2020 Participants: $6,300 + applicable taxes (Must renew prior to December 31st, 2020)

Add a Spouse: $2,400 + applicable taxes

Add a Child (Ages 18 and under): $1,000 + applicable taxes

 

2021 Tartan Club Weekday Annual Pass (Monday-Thursday Only):

New Participant Price: $4,500 + applicable taxes

Add a Spouse: $2,000 + applicable taxes

Add a Child (Ages 18 and under): $1,000+ applicable taxes

 

Benefits:

Complimentary Greens Fees when walking

$25+tax Cart Fee per round when utilizing a golf cart

Push/Pull Carts Complimentary based upon availability

7 Day advance booking window

Complimentary practice facility access

Golf bag storage

Optional direct bill account

Special guest rates

20% off Food & Beverage at Resort Outlets

20% off select services at Agave, The Arizona Spa

Preferred Troon Card pricing with purchase of pass

 

 

Problem here is Kierland is a boring, simple and below average course.  The facilities are average.  To pay that amount is a bit silly.

 

You can just buy the monthly PDP at Talking Stick for 2 courses at $49 a month.  Only downside may be that the tee times are limited and for some reason they say a limit to 2 bags of balls.

--but you get 2 courses, good facilities and the flexibility to play golf anywhere.  Being tied to Kierland to get your play and range time really seems like a bad deal.

 

 

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11 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

 

Problem here is Kierland is a boring, simple and below average course.  The facilities are average.  To pay that amount is a bit silly.

 

You can just buy the monthly PDP at Talking Stick for 2 courses at $49 a month.  Only downside may be that the tee times are limited and for some reason they say a limit to 2 bags of balls.

--but you get 2 courses, good facilities and the flexibility to play golf anywhere.  Being tied to Kierland to get your play and range time really seems like a bad deal.

 

 

Ya, I know, but it's not a bad deal for whats in the area, and closer to where he lives. Unlimited range time and no cart fee if walking isn't a bad deal. Talking stick is the same, boring, average at best, nothing great either. And coming from where OP is coming from the golf at Kierland isn't that bad nor is talking stick. But practice facilities are ok, unlimited, i'm sure would be enticing. McDowell Mountain could even be an option if they still have their member deal course isnt great, but again, not terrible for what he's after. He's not expecting Whisper Rock on 5-6K. Somewhere to play regularly for cheap, and practice a lot, Kierland fits the bill. along with a few others mentioned. 

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If you’re under 40, check out Tatum Ranch and Moon Valley CC. Both in the 6k/year range. I’m a member at Moon Valley and live on the course. The dues are all-inclusive. Carts/bag storage/locker rooms/shoe service/etc. 

 

Membership is very close to full but should still be a few openings. Good practice area. Par 3 course and 7300 yard course that hosts waste management qualifiers and Outlaw Tour events. 

 

It’s nothing fancy, but it is a great value and a fun course. Management has been spending consistently to maintain and renovate the last few years. 

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The facilities at Talking Stick aren't that good in my opinion....the range is nice and so it the putting green but there is not a short game area at all...using the putting green for that is difficult because there are so many people always there and they were not allowing chipping for a while but i'm not sure if that's still the case....plush you only get 2 bags of balls and they aren't very big. 

 

I signed up at the Rave a few years ago after cancelling my PDP at TS.  Much better...it's the same cost and you get unlimited balls.  Their chipping area isn't great but it's workable minus the crappy bunker and the putting green is good.  You can also pay another $18 month and get cheaper tee times for a good rate.  They do have a back range pass as well but the rates aren't advertised and I'm not sure on the cost but a lot of mini tour guys use that side.  

 

Legacy has programs on their site too. Their range is ok, not great but their putting and chipping areas are fantastic.  Large and in great shape with a good deep bunker that gives you numerous angles to hit from.  I can literally spend hours there.  

 

Whirlwind has probably the best facilities but cost is high and waitlist can be an issue.

 

I was a member at Mesa CC for a bit....reasonable costs to join but I think they went up recently.  Range is serviceable but small and so is the putting green.  The short game area is pretty good and they have like a 120 yard hole for wedge work and short game stuff.  Pretty easy to get out as a single early in the AM and play alone if you want to practice a bit.  The one thing that kind of annoyed me is that their pace of play standard is like 3:30 and that's even slow there..So if you go as a single and want to hit a few balls a hole you will most likely have a twosome on a cart riding your butt and most likely a few groups behind them as well.  People are pretty nice there though.  The course is ok...lots of dogleg left holes/holes that require a draw so it felt pretty repetitive for me after 6 months which is why I left. 

 

Never been to Tatum Ranch but it looks decent.  Course seems pretty simple but practice areas look decent.  No idea on tee time availability though.  Wouldn't mind hearing more about that place from others.

 

It's a shame because you would think there would be more options here but there just aren't.  

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11 hours ago, HarringtonREI said:

Ya, I know, but it's not a bad deal for whats in the area, and closer to where he lives. Unlimited range time and no cart fee if walking isn't a bad deal. Talking stick is the same, boring, average at best, nothing great either. And coming from where OP is coming from the golf at Kierland isn't that bad nor is talking stick. But practice facilities are ok, unlimited, i'm sure would be enticing. McDowell Mountain could even be an option if they still have their member deal course isnt great, but again, not terrible for what he's after. He's not expecting Whisper Rock on 5-6K. Somewhere to play regularly for cheap, and practice a lot, Kierland fits the bill. along with a few others mentioned. 

Legend Trail is another option.  

 

3200 - unlimited practice; $22/32 rounds. So 100 rounds is 2200-3200. 

Edited by puttnforthe8
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On 1/14/2021 at 8:21 PM, puttnforthe8 said:

$6kish a year with a waiting list a mile long last I heard.

I talked to a past member recently ( he left last year ) and he said the annual fees are closer to 8K a year now for an individual. And yes there is still a long wait list. Roughly 50. So you might be eligible in a few years lol. When I was there, there were about 10-15 new members a year. Its capped at 100 members incase you didnt know. 

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Depends what he means by better value? I am a BT at GH, and its a good value in my opinion, but its a good bit more expensive than Kierland membership. Not a bunch more, but when you add in the cart fee, which GH does not offer no fee if walking. 

 

100 rounds at GH will run you the black tee fee, 6750.00 (after first year, 9000.00 first year), but you'll also pay 4000.00 in cart fees. So you're minimum 10,000 a yr, or 13,000.00 your first year. Spouse card is 4000.00 I think, plus the 4000.00 in cart fees for them if they played 100 rounds. 

 

Theoretically Kierland, you could be all in for 12 months for 6500.00, if you wanted to walk, and a spouse 9000.00 total for the pair. 

 

Most would consider Grayhawk more "top tier", and there is 36 holes instead of 27, but could also be 2x more money all said and done. 

 

If you're after decent facility on strict budget, Kierland is a decent value for what you get. Plus GH BT are pretty limited to the amount of people who can get them, I think about 60-70 per year is what i've heard. They usually sell out in matter of a week or 2 once made available. So value is irrelevant if you cant get in. 

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3 minutes ago, HarringtonREI said:

Depends what he means by better value? I am a BT at GH, and its a good value in my opinion, but its a good bit more expensive than Kierland membership. Not a bunch more, but when you add in the cart fee, which GH does not offer no fee if walking. 

 

100 rounds at GH will run you the black tee fee, 6750.00 (after first year, 9000.00 first year), but you'll also pay 4000.00 in cart fees. So you're minimum 10,000 a yr, or 13,000.00 your first year. Spouse card is 4000.00 I think, plus the 4000.00 in cart fees for them if they played 100 rounds. 

 

Theoretically Kierland, you could be all in for 12 months for 6500.00, if you wanted to walk, and a spouse 9000.00 total for the pair. 

 

Most would consider Grayhawk more "top tier", and there is 36 holes instead of 27, but could also be 2x more money all said and done. 

 

If you're after decent facility on strict budget, Kierland is a decent value for what you get. Plus GH BT are pretty limited to the amount of people who can get them, I think about 60-70 per year is what i've heard. They usually sell out in matter of a week or 2 once made available. So value is irrelevant if you cant get in. 

You pay 25 dollar cart fee at Kierland. Btw Im a White Tee go out there 2-3 times a year I have a Wekopass also hope I can get out there soon these Massachusetts travel restrictions are killing me

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I was looking at the TPC Scottsdale-Champions pass on their website out of curiousity...they mention a "cart fee" that applies when not walking, but none of the documents actually say how much it is. Anyone know? I generally ride from some point in May through the end of September so an added cart fee probably kills the value of that pass for me vs. just booking a regular time in summer when they are $45-$55.

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The cart fee at TPC Scottsdale I believe is 20-30.00ish +/- 5.00. 

Could be wrong but I don’t think they charge it if you walk. But again, I don’t fully remember.
 

You can sometimes get some cheap summer rates, and I believe if you have the regular TPC discount card you can pay only cart fee after 2 or 3pm. However, keep in mind the 45-55.00 fees they charge in summer aren’t usually the ideal tee times. The benefit you get with the full membership card usually, comes from being able to book prime time slots, weekends, and paying 0.00 or 20-30.00 cart fee when it’s 250.00 to play in the prime winter months is always a good feeling. 
 

I think even in summer for an AM tee time at TPC Scottsdale Champions you’re in the 80-90.00 minimum range(with out membership or card). Rates have ticked up the last 12-24 months in my opinion. 

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13 minutes ago, HarringtonREI said:

The cart fee at TPC Scottsdale I believe is 20-30.00ish +/- 5.00. 

Could be wrong but I don’t think they charge it if you walk. But again, I don’t fully remember.
 

You can sometimes get some cheap summer rates, and I believe if you have the regular TPC discount card you can pay only cart fee after 2 or 3pm. However, keep in mind the 45-55.00 fees they charge in summer aren’t usually the ideal tee times. The benefit you get with the full membership card usually, comes from being able to book prime time slots, weekends, and paying 0.00 or 20-30.00 cart fee when it’s 250.00 to play in the prime winter months is always a good feeling. 
 

I think even in summer for an AM tee time at TPC Scottsdale Champions you’re in the 80-90.00 minimum range(with out membership or card). Rates have ticked up the last 12-24 months in my opinion. 

 

I played Champions at least once per week early AM on weekdays this past summer and was regularly paying $45+tax Mon-Wed and $50-$55+tax Thu-Fri both including cart. Right off their website, often a couple weeks in advance, no special card or pass. The pass only lets you book 5 days in advance, and the document specifically prohibits booking outside the window, then cancelling inside the window and rebooking as a passholder.

 

This is the pass I was referring to, it looks like they changed up their offering for 2021 to this from something different - I think something for under $1,000 that really only got you lower green fees within a tight booking window.  

https://tpc.com/scottsdale/champions-pass/

Edited by Bonneville85308
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  • 3 weeks later...

I had the TPC Pass last season and the cart fee for the Champions Course was $29, for the Stadium Course $35. I'm not sure if it's gone up for 2021. If you solely play the Champions Course and walk, it's a great deal. You'll pay a $2 walking fee. If you ride a cart, you'll prob have to log 50+ rounds at the Champions Course to make it worth it price point wise. I play most of my rounds between March and September and enjoy the stadium course more, so I didn't find it worth it to get the Champions Pass. 

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On 1/13/2021 at 7:47 PM, AzSuperHack76 said:

Arrowhead CC rates are going to increase soon, letters were sent to membership. I’m unsure exactly how much but probably a significant amount if I had to guess.
 

They are buying out or already bought out Legend of Arrowhead and that is going private as well and there will be 2 courses under the same umbrella. 
 

I can’t even begin to think of how much money they are going to have to sink into Legend in order to make it even halfway decent. 

 

Is a privatization of Legend/combining of the two courses into one club actually happening? I've read and heard zilch about this other than on this thread in the last month. Arcis has owned both properties for quite a few years now so there isn't any kind of sale transaction that they would have to wait on.

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