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Arccos Sensors and Swingweight Calculations


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Hello all. I use the Arccos Sensors on all my clubs to keep up with my stats during play.  As I'm working to build my 2021 bag, I'm not sure how I should factor the sensor for the swingweight. I know that the weight , ~7gms, needs to be factored in, see first pic, but my question is that should it be factored into the length of the club? See second pic. Even though my hands would never wrap around it, do I need to consider the additional 1/2" of the sensor? The SW difference between both options is around three points. What in your view represents the more accurate calculation for swingweight? Thanks...

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I'd swingweight without the arccos sensor factored in at all.    Between the two options above, swingweighting with the arccos installed would be the most accurate measure but given that you

The problem is that what the swing weight scale shows as a drop may not be representative of whether the club will actually feel lighter or not.    e.g.  You could get the scale to go from (just picki

Agree with Rob, I would swingweight without the sensor. Unless you're suing the built in sensor+grip, and in that case you don't really have a choice. 

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I'd swingweight without the arccos sensor factored in at all. 

 

Between the two options above, swingweighting with the arccos installed would be the most accurate measure but given that you don't grip the arccos device, it's not a very useful measurement.  The swingweight of the club without the arccos device should be approximately 1 point lower than with the arccos device installed (adds 3pts for length and takes 2pts back away for weight).  This is a good case of 'don't over think it'.

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I use them as well, and constantly think about this.  I can definitely feel a difference with the Arccos installed versus absent, however I'm not sure it's SW I'm really feeling.  There's just something different about playing with Arccos installed.

 

That said, it doesn't really change things for me so I SW without Arccos fwiw.

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3 hours ago, RobS said:

I'd swingweight without the arccos sensor factored in at all. 

 

Between the two options above, swingweighting with the arccos installed would be the most accurate measure but given that you don't grip the arccos device, it's not a very useful measurement.  The swingweight of the club without the arccos device should be approximately 1 point lower than with the arccos device installed (adds 3pts for length and takes 2pts back away for weight).  This is a good case of 'don't over think it'.

I concur with Rob. In addition to builds I've done, I also personally play the Arccos screw-ins on my own gamers. Because the sensors exist beyond the end of the grip I always measure SWs EXCLUDING the sensors. You wouldn't ever want to grip the screw-in sensor, thus its prudent to disregard from SW measurements. 

 

The sensors that are built into the grips are a slightly different animal as your normal grip may include all/a portion of the grip that's actually the imbedded sensor. I've only personally worked with the MCC+4 Arccos grips, but the sensor & grip end cap occupies ~1/2" of the grip. For these builds I typically cut the raw shaft ~3/8" shorter than I would for a normal, non-Arccos grip.

 

Side-note: the sensors imbedded in the grips are great in-theory, but has anyone else found them to be incredibly impractical? I've had more than a few Arccos sensors that have been faulty. That's never been an issue since Arccos has an incredible warranty program & custom service, so getting replacement sensors hasn't been an issue. But if its an Arccos grip with the sensor imbedded, you have to pull & reinstall an entirely new grip. Now that's not a huge deal, but its certainly a lot more involved vs. swapping out a screw-in plug. Plus, if you every find yourself wanting/needing to re-shaft your clubs, the shaft pulls are now 3/8"-1/2" short, which typically reduces their resale value. Excuse the small soap-box, but I'm curious what other Arccos users / club builder's experiences with the products have been.  

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4 hours ago, eth4and said:

I concur with Rob. In addition to builds I've done, I also personally play the Arccos screw-ins on my own gamers. Because the sensors exist beyond the end of the grip I always measure SWs EXCLUDING the sensors. You wouldn't ever want to grip the screw-in sensor, thus its prudent to disregard from SW measurements. 

 

The sensors that are built into the grips are a slightly different animal as your normal grip may include all/a portion of the grip that's actually the imbedded sensor. I've only personally worked with the MCC+4 Arccos grips, but the sensor & grip end cap occupies ~1/2" of the grip. For these builds I typically cut the raw shaft ~3/8" shorter than I would for a normal, non-Arccos grip.

 

Side-note: the sensors imbedded in the grips are great in-theory, but has anyone else found them to be incredibly impractical? I've had more than a few Arccos sensors that have been faulty. That's never been an issue since Arccos has an incredible warranty program & custom service, so getting replacement sensors hasn't been an issue. But if its an Arccos grip with the sensor imbedded, you have to pull & reinstall an entirely new grip. Now that's not a huge deal, but its certainly a lot more involved vs. swapping out a screw-in plug. Plus, if you every find yourself wanting/needing to re-shaft your clubs, the shaft pulls are now 3/8"-1/2" short, which typically reduces their resale value. Excuse the small soap-box, but I'm curious what other Arccos users / club builder's experiences with the products have been.  

I never considered the grips for those reasons. I figured I’m better taking a chance losing the sensor and replacing it on the fly than dealing with the entire grip.

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17 hours ago, vq6shadow said:

Hello all. I use the Arccos Sensors on all my clubs to keep up with my stats during play.  As I'm working to build my 2021 bag, I'm not sure how I should factor the sensor for the swingweight. I know that the weight , ~7gms, needs to be factored in, see first pic, but my question is that should it be factored into the length of the club? See second pic. Even though my hands would never wrap around it, do I need to consider the additional 1/2" of the sensor? The SW difference between both options is around three points. What in your view represents the more accurate calculation for swingweight? Thanks...

 

 

The question only would have a single valid answer IF swing weight was an absolute measurement.  But it's not so the answer 100% depends on how you came up with the target swing weight value.

 

If the target swing weight was determined with the sensor in place,  then the club should be checked and adjusted based on measurements with the sensor in place.

 

If the target value was determined or fit from a club w/o the sensor, then you should build the set based on that value w/o the sensor installed.

 

The 3rd and ideal alternative is forget any previous swing weight value.  Just throw it out.   Build the club a bit light with the sensor and go to the range to dial in the correct head weight for that club, with that shaft, and that grip with the sensor installed.  Then go back and measure it on the swing weight scale.  Continue to use that value with the other clubs in the set with the sensors installed.

 

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1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The question only would have a single valid answer IF swing weight was an absolute measurement.  But it's not so the answer 100% depends on how you came up with the target swing weight value.

 

If the target swing weight was determined with the sensor in place,  then the club should be checked and adjusted based on measurements with the sensor in place.

 

If the target value was determined or fit from a club w/o the sensor, then you should build the set based on that value w/o the sensor installed.

 

The 3rd and ideal alternative is forget any previous swing weight value.  Just throw it out.   Build the club a bit light with the sensor and go to the range to dial in the correct head weight for that club, with that shaft, and that grip with the sensor installed.  Then go back and measure it on the swing weight scale.  Continue to use that value with the other clubs in the set with the sensors installed.

 

The 3rd method is what I'm doing to some extent. The only target was to make them "lighter" SW-wise than the previous set. I've done all I wanted to do with the head and shaft, now I'm looking to add a little counter-balance on the butt end in hopes that it will give me that final little pickup in clubhead and ball speed.

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2 minutes ago, vq6shadow said:

The 3rd method is what I'm doing to some extent. The only target was to make them "lighter" SW-wise than the previous set. I've done all I wanted to do with the head and shaft, now I'm looking to add a little counter-balance on the butt end in hopes that it will give me that final little pickup in clubhead and ball speed.

 

1) when you said "did all you wanted to do with the head and shaft" was the sensor installed or not?

2) If you just want to see what will happen with the counterbalancing, then the swing weight scale isn't going to help at all for that.  Just go to a range and hit balls and see what happens to the results. Even play around with different amounts of counterbalancing when you do that.

 

The swing weight scale is only good for matching clubs that are alike.   So after you do all your testing and have found the best configuration, that's when you'd use the swing weight scale to get a value from the test club and use for the build of other clubs.  And it only should be used for adjusting the head weights.   The shaft and butt side for the other clubs (sensor or not, amount of counterbalancing) should all match what was done on the test club before putting it on the scale.

 

Counterbalancing can help some people - but it's very different from proper ways of lowering the swing weight and also a lot less predictable.  The scale is not going to help tell you how the feel or results will change in that particular context.  It just wasn't designed to do that.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

1) when you said "did all you wanted to do with the head and shaft" was the sensor installed or not?

2) If you just want to see what will happen with the counterbalancing, then the swing weight scale isn't going to help at all for that.  Just go to a range and hit balls and see what happens to the results. Even play around with different amounts of counterbalancing when you do that.

1) Yes, I measured the SW of the club as depicted in the pictures of the OP. The difference was 2 points (D4 - D6).

 

2) I would think that once the counterbalance weight is installed, I should at least see a drop in SW first, then what the range numbers look like to determine whether that adjustment worked, no? If it does, then I've identified my target SW and any counterbalance adjustments, if required,  needed to achieve it.

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13 minutes ago, vq6shadow said:

2) I would think that once the counterbalance weight is installed, I should at least see a drop in SW first, then what the range numbers look like to determine whether that adjustment worked, no? If it does, then I've identified my target SW and any counterbalance adjustments, if required,  needed to achieve it.

 

The problem is that what the swing weight scale shows as a drop may not be representative of whether the club will actually feel lighter or not.    e.g.  You could get the scale to go from (just picking arbitrary numbers here)  D6 to D2 by either removing about 8 gm from the head or by adding about 20 gm to the butt end.   But the resulting club after doing one would feel completely different then if you had done the other.

 

So because of that, seeing what the counterbalance does to the swing weight scale reading before hitting balls and testing it out on the range is really pointless.  Don't get me wrong, it doesn't hurt but it's not really telling you anything useful.   it's better to just go to the range with lead tape (or with various removable butt weight plugs like the Tour Loc Pro's) and just add it incrementally between test shots to find the amount that gives best results.

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18 hours ago, eth4and said:

I

 

Side-note: the sensors imbedded in the grips are great in-theory, but has anyone else found them to be incredibly impractical? I've had more than a few Arccos sensors that have been faulty. That's never been an issue since Arccos has an incredible warranty program & custom service, so getting replacement sensors hasn't been an issue. But if its an Arccos grip with the sensor imbedded, you have to pull & reinstall an entirely new grip. Now that's not a huge deal, but its certainly a lot more involved vs. swapping out a screw-in plug. Plus, if you every find yourself wanting/needing to re-shaft your clubs, the shaft pulls are now 3/8"-1/2" short, which typically reduces their resale value. Excuse the small soap-box, but I'm curious what other Arccos users / club builder's experiences with the products have been.  

For the grips that come with the arccos sensor built in, the sensor is removable from the butt end of the grip if it needs to be replaced.  No need to remove or replace the grip.  You are correct about the problem with replacing arccos grips with non-arccos grips and ending up with clubs that are roughly 1/2" shorter.

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