Jump to content
2024 Houston Open WITB Photos ×

Woke up and lost it... Can’t spot the flaws!


Recommended Posts

I have been working really hard to keep my slice at bay. I play at around a 11 hdcp and it’s that high because of my ability to keep the ball in play off the tee. For most of the summer/fall was able to find a feel that kept my swing inside to out. But as of today, I’m completely lost as to where I need to make a change and thought I’d come here for help. I’ve attached a video from the range today. 
 

and for reference I’ve attached a video of when I was hitting the ball much higher with a straight/draw ball flight most of the time. Any advice would be really helpful as I’m super lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The main things going on here are some of the pretty common flaws/faults that you're getting away with (not always it seems) due to being athletic and strong. There are some big reroutes/compensations going on that will leave you subject to getting "lost" at times. Fixing those compensations is the key to keeping things on the rails more consistently. 

1850864985_ScreenShot2021-01-15at12_03_16PM.png.0e1325a3e40aa5d0d3536ab214dc8481.png

Everything is pretty solid at at address, but then the first issue comes in Panel 2 with how flat and inside you take the club going back. Compare this position to someone more neutral like Rory...

105822602_ScreenShot2021-01-15at12_35_05PM.png.5fd377be6b0d248b0a08cff6885cd9eb.png

...and you can see that you've gotten pretty far away from a neutral position only 1/4 of the way back. From there in Panel 3 you have continued up very flat, lost most of your shoulder tilt, and are basically in a somewhat stuck position here with your hands really deep. Given how you got to this position, it is virtually impossible to get to the inside of the ball. You also have a very shut clubface which will require a lot of lower body clearing to keep from pull hooking the ball, which you do pretty well, but this flat, stuck position results in your hands coming straight out towards the ball in transition instead of dropping down (red dot shows where your hands go, green dot shows where they would need to go to stay on plane. This is the classic over the top, steep transition move that puts you on the path to be out to in hitting pull cuts and slices. It will also cause a breakdown in your posture and weight transition as you attempt to make room for what is more of a baseball type of swing. This big reroute costs your power and consistency. 

To fix this you really have to go to the source and neutralize your takeaway to get you into a better position at the top, one that you don't have to reroute on the way down. This will likely feel like you're going back very steep, so just keep in mind that what you are used to now is extremely flat/shallow. Since you have access to video, work on getting yourself into that more neutral position 1/4 of the way back like Rory, and keep an eye on maintaining your shoulder tilt in the backswing. It should feel more like your left shoulder is working down under your chin as opposed to up and across it. Those two things should naturally get you into a more neutral position at the top, and from there you may need to visit your grip and face angles. If you choose to stay strong and shut then you may want to consider taking the DJ/Morikawa/Hovland path and favoring a hold off fade. You have the lower body rotation and hip action to make that work, you just need to set it up properly by neutralizing some of these more extreme moves. Good luck, and feel free to follow up!

  • Thanks 1

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As noted  flatten shaft via forearm roll early in takeaway - leads to arms too across body, steep pull down, wipe across ball, etc

 

 Need to keep club head outside hands in takeaway and then stand the club up via completing wrist set.    Arms work up, pivot provides around.

D162471A-C135-4E5D-BCDF-897B7EB031F7.jpeg.af7e5fa943671a2efa53b569f35a09d6.jpeg29D3C02C-94CD-4783-82B7-7F3D13105329.jpeg.99fc0b8182fa70edf6a80fe0b758f4d3.jpeg

 

Somethings to consider

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CArLoP8llFa/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIqOn9ilTZD/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/
 

 

 

Edited by glk
  • Thanks 1

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, laneholt said:

Well — what are the FACTS as to why you have to take the shaft straight back when your goal is to place it back there behind your torso where you intended it to go ? What difference does it make how it gets  there ? 
    If the arms work up wouldn’t that be retard the PIVOT around of the torso ? That never made much sense to my thinking !  Ben Hogan didn’t take his HANDS straight back and neither does Tiger . I would like to hear the FACTS as to why keep the clubhead outside the HANDS going back ? 
    Just asking .

 


You don't necessarily *have* to do anything, it all depends on the context. If @WillyBman was able to get to a solid impact position with his hands and body from his very flat and deep position then I would not suggest he change that. But the fact that he is struggling with a slice then it is pretty clear that this position at the top is what is likely causing the problem, and that position is being caused by a very shallow and "inside the hands" takeaway. The inside takeaway isn't a problem in a vacuum, but rather what it leads to. Take JB Holmes for example:

1420754424_ScreenShot2021-01-21at5_42_57PM.png.d06ea42a504ca412ea68fcc731372293.png"

He takes the club back pretty well inside, and would end up in the deep/flat position that Willy is in if he continued on that path, but instead...

1165127846_ScreenShot2021-01-21at5_43_14PM.png.b2ff4449e85166c732158f357cf2ac49.png

...he steepens to a pretty upright position that allows him to easily flatten and shallow again. His sequence then is flat -> steeper -> flat which is a little unorthodox and "Furyk-ish" but it gets him to a great impact position, so changing any one of the components would logically cause some issues. @WillyBman however is not getting to a good impact position, and his sequence is very flat -> very flat -> steeper, the steepening causing the over the top move and subsequent slice issues and inability to work from the inside of the ball. We could easily suggest that Willy try what JB Holmes is doing e.g. heavily steepening in the second half of the backswing, but that seems like a move more specific to people like JB and unless it comes very natural to you would be considered more of a bandaid than an actual fix, which IMO is neutralizing the initial takeaway to then hopefully result in a more neutral position at the top. 

Edited by Valtiel

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Valtiel said:


You don't necessarily *have* to do anything, it all depends on the context. If @WillyBman was able to get to a solid impact position with his hands and body from his very flat and deep position then I would not suggest he change that. But the fact that he is struggling with a slice then it is pretty clear that this position at the top is what is likely causing the problem, and that position is being caused by a very shallow and "inside the hands" takeaway. The inside takeaway isn't a problem in a vacuum, but rather what it leads to. Take JB Holmes for example:

1420754424_ScreenShot2021-01-21at5_42_57PM.png.d06ea42a504ca412ea68fcc731372293.png"

He takes the club back pretty well inside, and would end up in the deep/flat position that Willy is in if he continued on that path, but instead...

1165127846_ScreenShot2021-01-21at5_43_14PM.png.b2ff4449e85166c732158f357cf2ac49.png

...he steepens to a pretty upright position that allows him to easily flatten and shallow again. His sequence then is flat -> steeper -> flat which is a little unorthodox and "Furyk-ish" but it gets him to a great impact position, so changing any one of the components would logically cause some issues. @WillyBman however is not getting to a good impact position, and his sequence is very flat -> very flat -> steeper, the steepening causing the over the top move and subsequent slice issues and inability to work from the inside of the ball. We could easily suggest that Willy try what JB Holmes is doing e.g. heavily steepening in the second half of the backswing, but that seems like a move more specific to people like JB and unless it comes very natural to you would be considered more of a bandaid than an actual fix, which IMO is neutralizing the initial takeaway to then hopefully result in a more neutral position at the top. 

As a former baseball player that is definitely why I feel comfortable taking it back so late. And I guess the first flaw I tried to fix was avoiding a chicken wing and an extended lead wrist instead of flat or bowed. So for a temporary fix I ended up working really hard to pin that right elbow in and down and pre-set my wrists on the take away. And luckily I have enough speed to make that work. But of course if I’m not absolutely perfect I break down a ton. So I appreciate all the advice I am definitely going to work on these different feels to become more consistent. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, WillyBman said:

@laneholt @Valtiel @glk I’ll definitely work on this take away and my position at the top. I’ll keep you all posted. I really appreciate the feedback and the help narrowing the flaws down. 

Some others for your consideration

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9uS-bflJJD/
 

 

can also do these as partial swings once you have the general motion.   Imagine you have difficulty hitting partial swings with your current backswing.   Ray Floyd is the all time flatten the shaft player who raises the arms vertical and rotates them to the left (think jb Holmes on steroids) to get to a great top but his pitching motion was pretty conventional.    As noted if you can make it work then why change it but what those two do is far from the norm.   The idea is to make it easy on ourselves and not fight the club.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, glk said:

Some others for your consideration

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9uS-bflJJD/
 

 

can also do these as partial swings once you have the general motion.   Imagine you have difficulty hitting partial swings with your current backswing.   Ray Floyd is the all time flatten the shaft player who raises the arms vertical and rotates them to the left (think jb Holmes on steroids) to get to a great top but his pitching motion was pretty conventional.    As noted if you can make it work then why change it but what those two do is far from the norm.   The idea is to make it easy on ourselves and not fight the club.

Yeah I can definitely have some trouble on partial shots. But I’m a little more confident in being steeper with irons and wedges because of how one would hit down on the ball. It’s the long irons/woods that give me the largest problems. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 8 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...