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Moving Towards GI irons


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Wanted to "think out loud" here and get some opinions. I have been playing now for 5 seasons. I am an average player the cap was 13 last year for most of the season. I am pretty avg in every aspect. Slightly longer than average with woods and irons. very average iron plater. sub-par putter. My best aspect by a landslide is short game. 

 

I play a nice draw that sometimes turns into a big draw and then a big hook with irons. I have thought alot this off season of moving into a GI profile iron. I have normally went away from this type because i dont need iron distance...im afraid of dropping spin etc. However, i have come to think that any kind of extra forgiveness and/or ease of use in any part of my game should be welcomed. The offset issues make me nervous but it hink its time to move to GI. What are thoughts? anyone similar make the move and enjoy it? 

 

Thank you!

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First of all, what iron model are you playing right now? What is the shaft? (For comparison purposes...)   Categories of irons Players, Players Distance, GI, etc... be aware that a club mode

Last year, I went the other way as you are considering.   Three years ago, I was fit for G400 irons (wide sole), 2 degrees upright, power speced.  My swing was classic over the top and steep so

I am playing around 4 now and have a full set of GI clubs (3-6 irons are hybrids, 7-P are GI irons). I played a set of blades a couple years ago but have found more fun with the GI irons in recent years.

Driver: Taylormade SIM, 8 degrees (set to 6.5), Fujikura Motore Speeder 661 X-Stiff

3W: Taylormade M5 14 degrees (set to 12.5), VA Composite Drago 75 X-Stiff

Hybrids: Titleist 915H (3-5), Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Irons: Bridgestone J40 DPC (6-P), Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Wedges: Bridgestone J33 (50,56,60), Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Putter: Directed Force 2.1 Putter

Ball: Titleist Velocity

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1 hour ago, williaza said:

I have thought alot this off season of moving into a GI profile iron. I have normally went away from this type because i dont need iron distance...im afraid of dropping spin etc. However, i have come to think that any kind of extra forgiveness...

 

First of all, what iron model are you playing right now? What is the shaft? (For comparison purposes...)

 

Categories of irons Players, Players Distance, GI, etc... be aware that a club model is assigned a category according to its perceived market niche. ... not by some scientific algebra formula analysis.

 

That's why you see WRXers say things such as the Players Distance Ping i210 gives good dispersion and is easy to hit, while others may say that the GI TaylorMade M5 is hard to handle. The categories are a good starting point, but you have to test things out to see if they fit you.

 

As for spin, clubhead loft and the ball you play are significant influences. Choose accordingly.

1 hour ago, williaza said:

The offset issues make me nervous but it think its time to move to GI. What are thoughts? anyone similar make the move

 

Offset? GI is a crossover category for offset amounts, sole thickness, etc. I have played two models of GI irons in the last 10 years: Callaway X2 Tours and current CB Pro Tungsten. Both have modest amounts of offset. You just have to see what individual iron models offer.

 

If your draw turns into hard left on occasion, low offset may be the only problem. A swing tweak, or flatter lie, or slightly thicker grips might also help.

 

Similar moves? Bridgestone staffers Brant Snedeker and Matt Kuchar play GI irons and win PGA tournaments with them.

 

Finally, the 1st Commandment of WRX: Get fitted. 😯 The fitter can help you find the right {clubhead + shaft} combo for your next arsenal of irons.

Edited by ChipNRun
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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

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3 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

First of all, what iron model are you playing right now? What is the shaft?

 

Categories of irons... be aware that a club model is assigned to the categories of Players, Players Distance, GI, etc., according to its perceived market niche. Which category of golfers will it fit the best. These categories are not assigned by some algebra formula analysis.

 

That's why you see WRXers say things such as the Players Distance Ping i210 gives good dispersion and is easy to hit, while others may say that the GI TaylorMade M5 is hard to handle. The categories are a good starting point, but you have to test things out to see if the fit you.

 

As for spin, clubhead loft and the ball you play are significant influences. Choose accordingly.

Offset? GI is a crossover category for offset amounts, sole thickness, etc. I have played two models of GI irons in the last 10 years: Callaway X2 Tours and current CB Pro Tungsten. Both have modest amounts of offset. You just have to see what works in reality.

 

If your draw turns into hard left on occasion, low offset may not solve the problem. A swing tweak, or flatter lie, or slightly thicker grips might also help.

 

Similar moves? Bridgestone staffers Brant Snedeker and Matt Kuchar play GI irons and win PGA tournaments with them.

 

Finally, the 1st Commandment of WRX: Get fitted. 😯 The fitter can help you find the right {clubhead + shaft} combo for your next arsenal of irons.

Thank you! I play Wilson Staff F5 forged with kbs c-taper which were fitted. Pro V1 ball. 

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If you hook the ball you probably don't need more offset introduced to you..  the Fg Tour F5's are pretty GI while still being forged without going into the SGI territory, and with them you don't need to worry about your concerns of dropping spin/lower cg/distance like with the newer irons with the strong lofts.

Callaway Rogue SubZero 9* 

TEE CBX 119 4wd 16.5*

Wilson Staff FG Tour F5 3h 19*

Wilson Staff C300 Forged 4i

Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 5-GW

Scratch 56* DS

Toulon Atlanta

 

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Tempted to say it won’t matter much, but looked up the Maltby Playability Factor of those clubs and it is half of what he assigned to my Mizuno MP 33s, probability some indication that those babies have a high COG and need to hit low on the ball to perform.

 

What you need to do is honestly determine whether you hit the ground before the ball.  If you do, you can get the superist GI clubs you can stand to look at, or you can learn to hit the ball before the ground, and get modestly sized perimeter weighted high MOI clubs with relatively low/rearward COG  and wide sole to help when you make a mistake.

 

Unfortunately the makers seem unwilling to make the second kind of clubs without de-lofting them and futzing with the vertical COG and charging an arm and a leg for the supposed tech.

 

In other words, in my opinion ( which could be humbler and heck could be wrong) game improvement is code for threes thing:  de-lofting and longer shafts (for slow swing speeds), lower COG (for when the ground is hit first), and higher MOI through weight distortion (so that off center hits will go farther and straighter).   All three come packaged together, for marketing but also complicated design reasons (to try say to keep them for over spinning for good ball strikers).  The first is somewhat deceptive, the last is good, and the second can be pernicious to the extent it removes the incentive to strike the ball properly.

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1 minute ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

Tempted to say it won’t matter much, but looked up the Maltby Playability Factor of those clubs and it is half of what he assigned to my Mizuno MP 33s, probability some indication that those babies have a high COG and need to hit low on the ball to perform.

 

What you need to do is honestly determine whether you hit the ground before the ball.  If you do, you can get the superist GI clubs you can stand to look at, or you can learn to hit the ball before the ground, and get modestly sized perimeter weighted high MOI clubs with relatively low/rearward COG  and wide sole to help when you make a mistake.

 

Unfortunately the makers seem unwilling to make the second kind of clubs without de-lofting them and futzing with the vertical COG and charging an arm and a leg for the supposed tech.

 

In other words, in my opinion ( which could be humbler and heck could be wrong) game improvement is code for threes thing:  de-lofting and longer shafts (for slow swing speeds), lower COG (for when the ground is hit first), and higher MOI through weight distortion (so that off center hits will go farther and straighter).   All three come packaged together, for marketing but also complicated design reasons (to try say to keep them for over spinning for good ball strikers).  The first is somewhat deceptive, the last is good, and the second can be pernicious to the extent it removes the incentive to strike the ball properly.

very interesting. thank you. I fat one now and again but really never hit ground then ball...im actually much more a picker 

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As stated by Mr. NotThatGuyorAmi? the way you usually strike the ball is a good place to start. You said you are a picker, so if it that means a small divot, or no divot, then GI clubs should be fine for you.

There are a number of GI clubs that shade more towards the better player side with not that much more offset than blades.

Like you, I am more of a picker and I take a small divot. I have played blades but switched to GI because GI were easier to hit as far as getting good results (distance & dispersion) on off center hits.  The offset of GI clubs, for me, turned out to be not a big deal except for a few models which were more like SGI. Even then, for me, I could adapt to it. The clubs just looked weird.  

But, I think it's important to look at the specs on the shafts in GI clubs and the lie angles if you go with stock. A lot of GI clubs, especially those which shade towards SGI, have relatively light shafts and they might be more upright than blades. That may present a problem. 

Ultimately, I think the transition will vary widely from person to person. 

 

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In my opinion, unless you are all over the face, "Game Improvement" irons are the ones that have a sole that work for your swing.

Driver: PING G410 Plus, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6S
3W: Titleist D917 13.5 @ 15, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 7S
5W: Titleist D917 18 @ 18.75, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 8S
Hybrid: Titleist 816 H2 21 @ 22, Diamana D+ 100 Hybrid
Irons: PING i210 (5-U), Nippon Modus 120S
Wedges: PING Glide (54 SS, 58 WS), PING CFS Wedge
Putter: PING Sigma 2 Arna
Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

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6 hours ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

game improvement is code for threes thing:

de-lofting and longer shafts (for slow swing speeds),

lower COG (for when the ground is hit first),

and higher MOI through weight distortion (so that off center hits will go farther and straighter).

 

All three come packaged together, for marketing but also complicated design reasons (to try say to keep them for over spinning for good ball strikers).  The first is somewhat deceptive, the last is good, and the second can be pernicious to the extent it removes the incentive to strike the ball properly.

"game improvement is code for threes thing:..."

From the three listings, is seems you have GI and SGI irons confused. And, some Players Distance have dipped into longer shafts.

 

"the second can be pernicious to the extent it removes the incentive to strike the ball properly."

What about Bridgestone PGA staffers who win tournaments using GI irons? Fred Couples uses J15 DPC and Matt Kuchar uses J15CB irons. 

 

7 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

GI is a crossover category for offset amounts, sole thickness, etc. I have played two models of GI irons in the last 10 years: Callaway X2 Tours and current CB Pro Tungsten. Both have modest amounts of offset. You just have to see what individual iron models offer.

Key thing to remember on SGI is that is the crossroads of golf irons. You have to check out the individual models to know what each offers, and which as bests. And, @NotThatGuyorAmI?, don't forget the dynamics of the shaft. That's the tube that connects the grip to the clubhead.

What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

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11 hours ago, williaza said:

What do you mean by this? My miss is generally thin and/or a big draw..not really a pull hook more a sweeping draw

 

Last year, I went the other way as you are considering.
 

Three years ago, I was fit for G400 irons (wide sole), 2 degrees upright, power speced.  My swing was classic over the top and steep so that setup worked. I was trying to avoid fat shots and keep the ball height and spin down (because face to path was open).


I worked hard on my swing with lessons and practice, and that turned my G400s into hook machines. I had the lie bent back to neutral and that helped.  I now was more worried about thin shots.

 

Last year, I switched to i210s, and they were perfect for my new swing. The sole was narrower than G400 so I didn’t feel like I had to pick the ball like I did with G400. I still didn’t get along well with narrow soles like Mizuno MMC. 
 

I don’t know if you can make a blanket statement about the sole that works for a given type of player. You have to hit them. For me, the Ping i210 and Srixon V Sole felt best. 

 

TXG has a video on it (below). If you don’t need all that weight low to get the ball in the air, a wide GI sole may not improve your game. 
 

 

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Driver: PING G410 Plus, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6S
3W: Titleist D917 13.5 @ 15, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 7S
5W: Titleist D917 18 @ 18.75, Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 8S
Hybrid: Titleist 816 H2 21 @ 22, Diamana D+ 100 Hybrid
Irons: PING i210 (5-U), Nippon Modus 120S
Wedges: PING Glide (54 SS, 58 WS), PING CFS Wedge
Putter: PING Sigma 2 Arna
Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

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