Ping g425 vs TSi2/3 woods - who wins

[Nick_E]

I currently have the tsi2 3 wood with the av raw blue x.  Im waiting on the TX to be available.

 

I started seeing reviews for g425 3 wood and it peaked my interest to help with spin on lower strikes.  I also play ping driver and have been very satisfied.

 

I'll see if the pgatoursuperstore.com has them to hit so I can compare.  I can trade the tsi2 in for the 425 at no cost.  My only concern is that it looks like the rogue white and av raw orange are both made for shafts.  For Titleist I can get the TX av raw blue at no upcharge. 

 

I'll post my comparison later today, but what do others think that have hit both.

[dalillama47]

The Ping will be a little easier to elevate from the fairway, other than that I like the Titleist on every other account.  Feel, sound, etc.  If you have a 16.5* TSi, it may go as far as the Ping 14.5*, and be very easy to elevate from the fairway.

[realmfg]

I'm between these two as well. Love the look of the Ping but Im sure the titleist sounds better....

[uglande]

I have always played Titleist fairway woods. But I now have a 410 3W and I just ordered 425 5W and 7W. The 410 is solid but pretty high launch/spin. Part of me wants to re-purchase a TS3 3W as more of my second tee option -- that head was a rocket -- and keep the 425s as true fairway woods.

[Nick_E]

I hit the g425 max 3 wood today with av orange.  Although the feel was really solid and was very forgiving it couldn't beat out my tsi2 with av raw blue.  Both are solid clubs but not worth changing.  I do think the av raw blue shaft gives Titleist more advantage.

[FOOTJOY16]

10 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

I hit the g425 max 3 wood today with av orange.  Although the feel was really solid and was very forgiving it couldn't beat out my tsi2 with av raw blue.  Both are solid clubs but not worth changing.  I do think the av raw blue shaft gives Titleist more advantage.

The Pings are nice.. but my TSi3 3 wood is not going to leave the bag.. I really like it..but might experiment with a few more shafts for it...

Edited January 18, 2021 by FOOTJOY16

[mtex22]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:00 AM, Nick_E said:

My only concern is that it looks like the rogue white and av raw orange are both made for shafts. 

 

Is this true? 

[Nick_E]

3 minutes ago, mtex22 said:

 

Is this true? 

If you look at torque and weights they are different so I suspect made for ping.  I don't understand how the companies do this.  If its different grade material then call it out.  Similar to small batch with project x, or Velocore with ventus.  At least you know what you're getting.

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, mtex22 said:

 

Is this true? 

 

56 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

If you look at torque and weights they are different so I suspect made for ping.  I don't understand how the companies do this.  If its different grade material then call it out.  Similar to small batch with project x, or Velocore with ventus.  At least you know what you're getting.

They are not made for shafts. There is only one Rogue White 130 MSI and on Tensei Pro Orange AV Raw. Good gravy, @Nick_E you posted a Twitter response from MCA on this very question 13 hours ago! Look at the last comment from Mitsubishi Chemical Aldila.
 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by noodle3872

[mjmurphy]

8 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

 

They are not made for shafts. There is only one Rogue White 130 MSI and on Tensei Pro Orange AV Raw. Good gravy, @Nick_E you posted a Twitter response from MCA on this very question 13 hours ago! Look at the last comment from Mitsubishi Chemical Aldila.
 

 

Agreed on the shafts being real deal in both. AV series reminds me of the D+ series the oems use to use. It is a new version of the pro series without the premium materials that was specifically made to a stock option. 

[Nick_E]

16 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

 

They are not made for shafts. There is only one Rogue White 130 MSI and on Tensei Pro Orange AV Raw. Good gravy, @Nick_E you posted a Twitter response from MCA on this very question 13 hours ago! Look at the last comment from Mitsubishi Chemical Aldila.
 

 

Did you see my comment about weight not being the same for Ping?  They match with Titleist.  My MCA post was about Titleist, I can't say why Ping are different.  Either way they are different for Ping.  They may be same material but they are not the same aftermarket shafts.    See for yourself.  I was just stating the obvious.  Appreciate if you do your homework before you call someone out.

 

Weights listed

Ping av raw orange 65 - 61, 64, 66

MCA av raw orange - 66, 69, 70

 

Ping image

 

MCA

Edited January 18, 2021 by Nick_E

[Nick_E]

Here are the Titleist specs on the TSi2 3 wood, and the matching specs on av raw blue.  Note weights and torque match.

 

Titleist

 

MCA

Edited January 18, 2021 by Nick_E

[mjmurphy]

I believe ping lists cut weight and now raw. My guess that is the difference.

[noodle3872]

2 hours ago, Nick_E said:

Did you see my comment about weight not being the same for Ping?  They match with Titleist.  My MCA post was about Titleist, I can't say why Ping are different.  Either way they are different for Ping.  They may be same material but they are not the same aftermarket shafts.    See for yourself.  I was just stating the obvious.  Appreciate if you do your homework before you call someone out.

 

Weights listed

Ping av raw orange 65 - 61, 64, 66

MCA av raw orange - 66, 69, 70

 

Ping image

 

MCA

 

2 hours ago, Nick_E said:

Here are the Titleist specs on the TSi2 3 wood, and the matching specs on av raw blue.  Note weights and torque match.

 

Titleist

 

MCA

I read your posts and it doesn’t matter which OEM you are quoting specs from. MCA said that they do not make watered down shafts for OEM’s. This means Ping’s measurements are different for some reason (or flat out wrong) not that the shafts are different. 
 

 

[Nick_E]

17 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

 

I read your posts and it doesn’t matter which OEM you are quoting specs from. MCA said that they do not make watered down shafts for OEM’s. This means Ping’s measurements are different for some reason (or flat out wrong) not that the shafts are different. 
 

 

Yes you're correct.  I'll get my tx from Titleist.   Moving along

[buckI]

Watched a TXG video on the 425 release they were testing and Ian Fraser said the shafts are the real deal.    

[Nick_E]

2 minutes ago, buckI said:

Watched a TXG video on the 425 release they were testing and Ian Fraser said the shafts are the real deal.    

I'll admit when I'm wrong.  Its happened once or twice before.   I was thrown off on the weights.  Neither offer tx for driver but Titleist does offer tx for 3 wood at no upcharge 

[realmfg]

I decided to order the Ping G425 fairways and hybrid over the TSi. From all the reviews it just seems the Pings are perfect looking with the matte black. Seem to be just a couple yards shorter than TSi but better disperson. I have the TSi3 Driver, so I guess if I cant handle the ping sound Ill just sell and get the titleist... 

Edited January 19, 2021 by realmfg

[Cptwiggly]

Ping always lists trimmed weight for the shafts in their website. They have done this for years and always show lower weights than shaft manufacturers. 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

On 1/18/2021 at 5:23 PM, Nick_E said:

Yes you're correct.  I'll get my tx from Titleist.   Moving along

Based on your over-analysis on specs, I would be 100% confident that you do not need TX in any club.

[Nick_E]

51 minutes ago, J-Zone said:

Based on your over-analysis on specs, I would be 100% confident that you do not need TX in any club.

Sure Zone.  Appreciate your useless comments.   

[Brooks_Cupcake]

51 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

Sure Zone.  Appreciate your useless comments.   

If you’re analyzing torque and sending out tweets, you have no clue what you are even looking at.

 

The OEM’s have actually added torque with better materials to improve feel and performance.
 

The days of trying to figure it out based on torque are over.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by J-Zone

[Nick_E]

9 minutes ago, J-Zone said:

If you’re analyzing torque and sending out tweets, you have no clue what you are even looking at.

The fact that you questioned AV Raw and Rogue White from Ping as made-for, as well as weight differences, pretty much sums up my prior statement.

The OEM’s have actually added torque with better materials, to improve feel and performance. The days of trying to figure it out based on torque are over.

Take it fwiw, but maybe talk to a reputable builder or work in a shop...

The OEMs have actually added torque with better materials.  Hahaha ha. Better materials 

 

That might be the dumbest thing I ever heard.

[Nick_E]

18 minutes ago, J-Zone said:

If you’re analyzing torque and sending out tweets, you have no clue what you are even looking at.

The fact that you questioned AV Raw and Rogue White from Ping as made-for, as well as weight differences, pretty much sums up my prior statement.

The OEM’s have actually added torque with better materials, to improve feel and performance. The days of trying to figure it out based on torque are over.

Take it fwiw, but maybe talk to a reputable builder or work in a shop...

Taking high road

 

Zone knows all

Edited January 21, 2021 by Nick_E

[Brooks_Cupcake]

1 hour ago, Nick_E said:

The OEMs have actually added torque with better materials.  Hahaha ha. Better materials 

 

That might be the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Adding better/premium materials has allowed them in certain instances to increase traditional torque ratings and add feel and a smoothness to shaft profiles, especially if you look specifically at the X vs TX in the AV raw shafts you mentioned.

Edited January 21, 2021 by J-Zone

[Nick_E]

For those interested i thought you might want to hear from Jonathan Wall, not me or Zone.  Determine for yourself if manufacturers are increasing torque by using expensive materials.  This is from June 2020.

 

There’s a reason why low torque shafts tend to carry a hefty price tag.

“As you go up in grade of material, which is actually going up in stiffness and strength of the material, you essentially double the cost of the material for every step you take up,” said designer John Oldenburg. “You can take four, five or six steps up the ladder, but the consumer can’t see it. We have to be able to explain it to the consumer, the type of material. Just calling it graphite kinda is an injustice to the product.”

The lower the torque number — it’s measured in degrees — the more resistant the shaft is to unwanted twisting. For someone like Tiger Woods or Rory McIlroy, who generate top-end speed with the driver, having an uber-stable shaft with low torque ensures they can go after the ball and not have to worry about speed affecting launch angle, spin rate and dispersion.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Nick_E

[Brooks_Cupcake]

3 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

For those interested i thought you might want to hear from Jonathan Wall, not me or Zone.  Determine for yourself if manufacturers are increasing torque by using expensive materials.  This is from June 2020.

 

There’s a reason why low torque shafts tend to carry a hefty price tag.

“As you go up in grade of material, which is actually going up in stiffness and strength of the material, you essentially double the cost of the material for every step you take up,” said designer John Oldenburg. “You can take four, five or six steps up the ladder, but the consumer can’t see it. We have to be able to explain it to the consumer, the type of material. Just calling it graphite kinda is an injustice to the product.”

The lower the torque number — it’s measured in degrees — the more resistant the shaft is to unwanted twisting. For someone like Tiger Woods or Rory McIlroy, who generate top-end speed with the driver, having an uber-stable shaft with low torque ensures they can go after the ball and not have to worry about speed affecting launch angle, spin rate and dispersion.

Yup. Fair point. I know “shafted’s” material quite well. I also understand torque, and the association to overall feel and stiffness. All my point is that I know plenty of stiff shafts that don’t have what’s considered traditional low torque, with TX and plus 3.5 values.

If you want to quote others, then why don’t you also figure out why an MCA shaft like the Raw White TX is 15% higher torque than its X flex in the same weight class, and the blue higher as well?

Let me know your thoughts....

 

 

[Nick_E]

7 minutes ago, J-Zone said:

Yup. Fair point. I know “shafted’s” material quite well. I also understand torque, and the association to overall feel and stiffness. All my point is that I know plenty of stiff shafts that don’t have what’s considered traditional low torque, with TX and plus 3.5 values.

If you want to quote others, then why don’t you also figure out why an MCA shaft like the Raw White TX is 15% higher torque than its X flex in the same weight class, and the blue higher as well?

Let me know your thoughts....

 

 

TX is traditionally lower torque than X.  Just as X is lower than S, and S lower than R.  That's common practice among all manufacturers.

 

New TX for white is actually lower or same as X.  Prototype 2 TX.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

22 minutes ago, Nick_E said:

TX is traditionally lower torque than X.  Just as X is lower than S, and S lower than R.  That's common practice among all manufacturers.

 

New TX for white is actually lower or same as X.  Prototype 2 TX.

No - I think you missed that. The Raw White is 15% more torque in TX vs X and Blue is also higher in TX vs X....

Edited January 21, 2021 by J-Zone

[Nick_E]

Another good example is Fujikura Ventus.  Same thing on torque, goes down by flex.  A great example where the Velocore version has less torque than the non Velocore.  It's due to lower materials in non Velocore