Tiger vs. Jack

[Guy In Lyon]

23 hours ago, jomatty said:

...I’m not sure he is top 5 ever as far as golfing goes

Arnold Palmer? Are you serious?

[Guy In Lyon]

On 1/21/2021 at 8:59 PM, Frankensteins Monster said:

Only if you believe that being the "greatest" golfer is only about class, and only in a "class"  sort of way

YMMV, as always.

[Guy In Lyon]

On 1/21/2021 at 8:04 PM, bscinstnct said:

TW and AP were “birds of a feather”

Nice trash talk. Congrats.

[Hawkeye77]

40 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

I got one.   

 

 

Thornton Melon vs. Al Czervik

 

 

Got to admit, it's a toss up.   The triple lindy and the Mr. Wang friendship have me at a tie. 

I call Sally Kellerman the tiebreaker!

[bscinstnct]

43 minutes ago, Guy In Lyon said:

Nice trash talk. Congrats.

 

Guy!

 

The Kings own daughter said he shared TWs penchant for pancakes ; )

 

And clearly they got along famously. 

 

Doesn’t take anything away from what they accomplished on the course. 

 

 

[csh19792001]

8 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Down the stretch, I would argue Jack left 12 wins on the table for not "outplaying" his opponents and that Tiger left fewer than 6. 

 

 

 

 

Which 12? 
 

Also, did you notice that nobody truly great ever did anything in the final round against Woods? And that nobody truly great beat him? Like all time great?

 

The players whom Woods finished runner up to averaged 4 wins and 2 Majors. 
 

The players who Nicklaus finished runner up to averaged 30 wins and 5 Majors.

 

Beat Nicklaus:

Watson 4x

Palmer 3x

Trevino 3x

Player 1x

Sutton 1x

Lema 1x

Marr 1x

Johnny Miller 1x

Nichols 1x

DiVicenzo 1x

Ballesteros 1x

Coody 1x

 

Beat Woods: 

Beem: 1x

Campbell: 1x

Zack Johnson: 1x

Cabrera: 1x

Immelman: 1x

YE Yang: 1x

Koepka: 1x
 

Nobody ever was great enough and/or gusty enough to stand up to and best Tiger Woods. 
 

Nicklaus wasn’t so lucky. Hence 19 runner ups to Tiger’s 7.

[BNGL]

2 minutes ago, csh19792001 said:

Which 12? 
 

Also, did you notice that nobody truly great ever did anything in the final round against Woods? And that nobody truly great beat him? Like all time great?

 

The players whom Woods finished runner up to averaged 4 wins and 2 Majors. 
 

The players who Nicklaus finished runner up to averaged 30 wins and 5 Majors.

 

 

Beat Nicklaus:

Watson 4x

Palmer 3x

Trevino 3x

Player 1x

Sutton 1x

Lema 1x

Marr 1x

Johnny Miller 1x

Nichols 1x

DiVicenzo 1x

Ballesteros 1x

Coody 1x

 

Beat Woods: 

Beem: 1x

Campbell: 1x

Zack Johnson: 1x

Cabrera: 1x

Immelman: 1x

YE Yang: 1x

Koepka: 1x
 

Nobody ever was great enough and/or gusty enough to stand up to and best Tiger Woods. 
 

Nicklaus wasn’t so lucky. Hence 19 runner ups to Tiger’s 7.

Could you please cite the events Nicklaus and Woods finished runner up in. The year, event, hosting organization, host course would be great! Thanks!

[csh19792001]

7 hours ago, BombinJim said:

The chart you share is impressive. Does this factor in how many majors one has played? I think Tiger played many less than Jack.

 

Jack only had one top 3 after his age 43 season, so it is a moot point. 

 

Let's do apples to apples...

 

Both players through age 44. Majors played as a professional:

Nicklaus:  92

Woods: 85

[bscinstnct]

10 minutes ago, csh19792001 said:

Which 12? 
 

Also, did you notice that nobody truly great ever did anything in the final round against Woods? And that nobody truly great beat him? Like all time great?

 

The players whom Woods finished runner up to averaged 4 wins and 2 Majors. 
 

The players who Nicklaus finished runner up to averaged 30 wins and 5 Majors.

 

 

Beat Nicklaus:

Watson 4x

Palmer 3x

Trevino 3x

Player 1x

Sutton 1x

Lema 1x

Marr 1x

Johnny Miller 1x

Nichols 1x

DiVicenzo 1x

Ballesteros 1x

Coody 1x

 

Beat Woods: 

Beem: 1x

Campbell: 1x

Zack Johnson: 1x

Cabrera: 1x

Immelman: 1x

YE Yang: 1x

Koepka: 1x
 

Nobody ever was great enough and/or gusty enough to stand up to and best Tiger Woods. 
 

Nicklaus wasn’t so lucky. Hence 19 runner ups to Tiger’s 7.

 

Whacha mean?

 

Look at all these all time greats doin great against TW here

 

😂

 

Happy Frrrrrrriday ; )

 

 

[csh19792001]

4 hours ago, Frostfield said:

They have said Tiger is the greatest.  Jack, Tom, Trevino (said he had to bite his lip), Palmer.  Look it up.  They said Tiger is the greatest.  That’s enough for me.  I agree with them.

Which isn't even accurate. They greatestoften contradicted themselves over the years, and many of the all time greats maintained and opined during Tiger's Prime that Nicklaus was the Greatest Ever. 

 

Back directly on topic.....here are some contemporaneous quotes from greats about Nicklaus being the greatest ever, from Jack's peers, during Tiger's Prime:

 

"You saw the greatest player who has ever played the game come up the 18th hole of the Old Course, his favorite course in golf. I think the emotions and pictures spoke for themselves." -Tom Watson

 

-Miami Herald, 7/16/05

 

"Nicklaus was the greatest to ever hold a golf club." -Lee Trevino
 

-Philadelphia Daily News, 6/4/13

 

"Trevino has always called Nicklaus the greatest player he has known. 'Don't think for a second that Tiger could outdrive Jack in his best days. He hit the ball 280 to 300 yards with persimmon drivers. If he had modern equipment, he might drive it 400.'" -Lee Trevino

 

-Palm Spring Desert Sun, 1/23/04

 

"You have to admire everything." Woods said. "No one played the Majors as well. No one was as consistent for as long. Jack is the greatest that ever lived in our sport." -Tiger Woods

 

-Miami Herald, 1/16/2005

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by csh19792001

[csh19792001]

4 hours ago, Frostfield said:

What the greats think does.  They have said Tiger is the greatest.  Jack, Tom, Trevino (said he had to bite his lip), Palmer.  Look it up.  They said Tiger is the greatest.  That’s enough for me.  I agree with them.

Also, this is merely what I found in my very (limited) time before work a few mornings ago scanning newspapers. There's a universe of information out there on what "they" said about who is the greatest. 

[csh19792001]

6 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Whacha mean?

 

Look at all these all time greats doin great against TW here

 

😂

 

Happy Frrrrrrriday ; )

 

Happy Friday, buddy. 🙂

[Hawkeye77]

What were the names of Jack's Golden Retrievers?  

[csh19792001]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

What were the names of Jack's Golden Retrievers?  

Apparently, "Lady", "Bear", and "White Paws".

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, csh19792001 said:

Apparently, "Lady", "Bear", and "White Paws".

Not all. Gonna troll, better know 'em all.

[csh19792001]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not all. Gonna troll, better know 'em all.

He's probably had 10 of them. What's the purpose of the sidebar?

[BNGL]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not all. Gonna troll, better know 'em all.

To be fair their last pup was a golden doodle named Bunker. That’s the sweetest dog you’ll ever meet, and I love our husky!! But Bunker would bark six times when you ask, how many green jackets did Jack win? (Or some variation of that). If memory serves that particular pup had a great lineage, I remember some story about it but can’t recall.

 

Citation:

BNGL. Dinner with the Nicklaus Family. Lost Tree Village. North Palm Beach, Florida. 2015 (maybe not sure). 

[Hawkeye77]

6 minutes ago, BNGL said:

To be fair their last pup was a golden doodle named Bunker. That’s the sweetest dog you’ll ever meet, and I love our husky!! But Bunker would bark six times when you ask, how many green jackets did Jack win? (Or some variation of that). If memory serves that particular pup had a great lineage, I remember some story about it but can’t recall.

 

Citation:

BNGL. Dinner with the Nicklaus Family. Lost Tree Village. North Palm Beach, Florida. 2015 (maybe not sure). 

Nope, only low hanging (and some inaccurate) Google fruit allowed!  Personal experiences with Jack are out of bounds, lol!

 

And you forgot to put a "1x" by that!

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[hybrid25]

11 hours ago, csh19792001 said:

Nicklaus' 48 top 3's in Majors is arguably the greatest record in the entire history of s ports. 

 

It's like Wilt Chamberlain's records. Impossible. I don't care if the fields weren't as deep in Jack's era versus Tiger's. Jack has TWICE as many top 3's as Mickelson and Tiger, COMBINED. 

 

 

 

Everybody knows the reason why, Mickelson plays wrecklessly. He makes poor club/shot decisions. I think people have alot of respect for the wins Phil has, but also a lot of disrespect for the wins he should have had.

[bscinstnct]

31 minutes ago, BNGL said:

To be fair their last pup was a golden doodle named Bunker. That’s the sweetest dog you’ll ever meet, and I love our husky!! But Bunker would bark six times when you ask, how many green jackets did Jack win? (Or some variation of that). If memory serves that particular pup had a great lineage, I remember some story about it but can’t recall.

 

Citation:

BNGL. Dinner with the Nicklaus Family. Lost Tree Village. North Palm Beach, Florida. 2015 (maybe not sure). 

 

Jack loved that dog.
 

He’d let Bunker eat at the table on Ortega Taco night. Barb would complain to high heaven 

 

But Jack would say,

 

Hey, who’s paying the damn bills around here! Isn’t that right, Bunker?

 

(Jack could get a little kooky after a few cream sodas.)

[Shilgy]

11 hours ago, csh19792001 said:

Can you please cite your source re: "90% of the players were from the UK in 1966"? 

 

Thanks!

You know this is easy to look up, right? Including what I posted earlier about just 23 Americans in the field as late as 1978.

 

https://www.theopen.com/previous-opens/95th-open-muirfield-1966/#leaderboard

[csh19792001]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

You know this is easy to look up, right? Including what I posted earlier about just 23 Americans in the field as late as 1978.

 

https://www.theopen.com/previous-opens/95th-open-muirfield-1966/#leaderboard

Thank you. 

[csh19792001]

12 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Jack loved that dog.
 

He’d let Bunker eat at the table on Ortega Taco night. Barb would complain to high heaven 

 

But Jack would say,

 

Hey, who’s paying the damn bills around here! Isn’t that right, Bunker?

 

(Jack could get a little kooky after a few cream sodas.)

This is priceless stuff!! 🙂

[Shilgy]

Just now, csh19792001 said:

Thank you. 

Quite the field Jack beat in ‘66.  A shining example of what many post saying that the “top3 “ finishes stat is overstated and overrated considering the strength of the fields. 

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You know this is easy to look up, right? Including what I posted earlier about just 23 Americans in the field as late as 1978.

 

https://www.theopen.com/previous-opens/95th-open-muirfield-1966/#leaderboard

 

Compare that to current Opens where there’s maybe 25% UK participation.

 

Totally different depth of talent pool from Jacks day. 

[csh19792001]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Quite the field Jack beat in ‘66.  A shining example of what many post saying that the “top3 “ finishes stat is overstated and overrated considering the strength of the fields. 

Take away every single one of his Open Championship Top 3 finishes, and he still destroys everyone else in golf history. 

[BNGL]

40 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Nope, only low hanging (and some inaccurate) Google fruit allowed!  Personal experiences with Jack are out of bounds, lol!

 

And you forgot to put a "1x" by that!

LMFAO my sincerest apologies, PLEASE grant me forgiveness!!!!

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, csh19792001 said:

Take away every single one of his Open Championship Top 3 finishes, and he still destroys everyone else in golf history. 

Makes one wonder why he won “just” 71 individual titles. And even that number includes a 20 man World Series of Golf win. About the size of the Hero Challenge run by Tiger.

 

Yes, Jack was a wonderful player. But...he did not face as many top players as the fields  do in the last 25 years or so. Blame the money available or blame the relative ease of travel. But Jack never faced the equivalent of a modern WGC event, much less a modern major.  Since Hogan has been mentioned a few times don’t even get me started on the war years and the fields then and shortly after. Europe and the UK understandably had their minds on other things than golf at the time.  Neither Hogan nor Snead even bothered to defend their Open wins. Hogan played in it just the one time and Snead just for times(once before age 50) while Nelson played it twice.

[csh19792001]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yes, Jack was a wonderful player. But...he did not face as many top players as the fields  do in the last 25 years or so. 

You're basing this on what, exactly, and specifically? 

 

Where is your research on the subject? I'm sure you've studied this exhaustively. I'd be thrilled to see all your work. 

 

Thanks, man. 

[Shilgy]

40 minutes ago, csh19792001 said:

You're basing this on what, exactly, and specifically? 

 

Where is your research on the subject? I'm sure you've studied this exhaustively. I'd be thrilled to see all your work. 

 

Thanks, man. 

We just gave you a few examples of the top players not playing. I will add a player not traveling in the opposite direction,Peter Thompson only played in 5 US Opens....8 Masters and zero PGA championships.......on a related note did you know the Montreal Canadiens did not finish worse than 6th in the NHL from 1927-1967?