Jump to content

Forgiveness question


Recommended Posts

Got my son a fitting with a top 100 club fitter. He had some great insight. The boy is an 18, took golf up 2 years ago. Has a decent swing speed (driver 102, 7 iron 84), but erratic contact. Tends to hit thin. Using i20s that seem to work, but they need shaft repairs, so I figured I'd pay for a fit to see if it's worth repairing with shafts that don't work. 

 

The fitter pushed low bounce irons to improve ground strike, so he concentrated on Mizuno. He seemed to strike the MMCs the best. I figured that the Hot Metals would come out on top, but he never got comfortable with them. When I questioned the pro about the MMCs not being forgiving enough, he poo-pooed forgiveness, saying that his good strikes were among the best with the MMCs, and he seemed comfortable with them. He felt that, with improvement, the forgiveness wouldn't be an issue.

 

So, should reviews go out the window? I seriously considered the MMCs, but worried about consistency. For now, I'll have him use my some of my old clubs. He actually fits into a stiff 120g shaft which is what I use, so he can play around with one of the many sets I have lying around. Before finding a used set of MMCs, I was hoping to get some other opinions.

 

Thanks.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 12
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Here's the thing, forgiveness is relative. Manufacturers generally only compare based on MOI and that's certainly the easiest way to calculate with real numbers and compare, but it doesn't make an iro

I the fitter didn't experiment with weighting when your son was hitting the clubs, then you have nothing to go on. Erratic contact is often caused by a club that is not balanced to suit the golfer. Co

My view is go as forgiving as your eyes can handle. Just be careful of too much of offsetting you are a drawer. 

Here's the thing, forgiveness is relative. Manufacturers generally only compare based on MOI and that's certainly the easiest way to calculate with real numbers and compare, but it doesn't make an iron most forgiving for every single player. If your son tends to miss low on the face then making toe and heel strikes more forgiving doesn't do much for him. Instead finding something that allows him to move strike up the face, or maybe moves CG lower so there's less vertical gear effect on those low strikes probably offers more improvement. Finding a low bounce iron that in general might move the strike up a little bit seems like a logical step for a good fitter to take. Seems like he took your son's specific miss and tendencies into consideration instead of just throwing an iron that's "designed for a specific handicap". This is why good fittings are great, when they go beyond just the cliched ideas of what might work for some generic "type" of golfer and figure out what actually works for the specific golfer and their specific needs.

  • Like 3

Driver: Ping G425 LST 9º (at 8º) Accra TZ5 65 M5

3 Wood: Taylormade SIM Ti 15º Accra TZ5 75 M5

3i/4i: Srixon Z785 Nippon Modus 120X (4i 1º weak)

5i-PW: Srixon Z-Forged Modus 120X

50º/54º/60º: Cleveland RTX 4 (Mid Bounce) Modus 120X (50º/54º) & DG TI S400 (60º)

Putter: Scotty Cameron Special Select Squareback 2 (33.75", 70º lie, 2.5º loft)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd agree with the posts about turf interaction. Superbly anecdotal I know, but I've had players hit two different type of iron (Titleist 716mb and AP2) and the GC showed contact was as identical as they could get with angle of attack, location etc. But the player swore blind that the AP2 was chunked. That's what we all interpret as forgiving, or not

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm suspect of turf interaction and forgiveness judgments when hitting off of mats.

 

I hit blades really well off flat lies and mats, or firm fairways.

 

When it gets more dicey is off downhill, sidehill lies -- which is basically every iron shot I hit on an actual course.

Titleist TSi3 10* (neutral), Ventus Blue 6x

Callaway Epic Flash Subzero 3W 15* (-1), PX HZRDUS Yellow 6.0 63 (in timeout)

Taylor Made RSi TP UDI 2i KBS C-Taper Lite Stiff

Titleist 718 CB 3-4 Irons; Project X LZ 6.0 120

Titleist 718 CB 5-PW; Project X LZ 6.5 125

Titleist Vokey SM7 50, 54, 58

Titleist Scotty Newport 2

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, eugkim said:

So, should reviews go out the window? I seriously considered the MMCs, but worried about consistency. For now, I'll have him use my some of my old clubs. He actually fits into a stiff 120g shaft which is what I use, so he can play around with one of the many sets I have lying around. Before finding a used set of MMCs, I was hoping to get some other opinions.

 

 

Everyone is different as to what they might need to get the best consistency in the results.   Reviews are (over) generalizations.  Fittings get results that are tailored to the individual - although highly dependent on the expertise of the fitter so still potentially questionable.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I the fitter didn't experiment with weighting when your son was hitting the clubs, then you have nothing to go on. Erratic contact is often caused by a club that is not balanced to suit the golfer. Could be too light/heavy and everything goes to crap. Bring the weighting to the right point and he starts pureing everything. Fittings an art and there's a serious shortage of artists out there.

 

BT

  • Like 2

 

Cobra LTD Pro 9.5° Proforce V2 Black 7F4 @ 44.5"
Cobra LTD Black 14.5° Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43"
Cobra F6 16.5° Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5"
Mizuno MP5 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Mizuno MP-T5 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
Grips - Grip Master Master Perforated Midsize

Oddysey Stroke Lab V-Line Blk 33.5"
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses.

 

I agree that the fitter was correct in pushing him towards low bounce clubs; in fairness, he went through the JPX 921 Forged/Hot Metal Pro, HMBs, P770s, P790s, i500. He couldn't seem to get any consistent strikes except with the MMCs and i500. I have a set of i500s, so I'll let him try them. 

 

In terms of weighting, he went through various shaft weights. He concluded that the heavier shafts helped to promote better contact. He didn't change head weight if that is the concern.

 

I'm hoping that he likes either my i20s or i500s, as it will save me some scratch. In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes open for a good deal on MP18 or MP20 MMCs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, COL_B said:

I'm suspect of turf interaction and forgiveness judgments when hitting off of mats.

 

I hit blades really well off flat lies and mats, or firm fairways.

 

When it gets more dicey is off downhill, sidehill lies -- which is basically every iron shot I hit on an actual course.

such a valid point

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, COL_B said:

I'm suspect of turf interaction and forgiveness judgments when hitting off of mats.

 

You are a very intelligent fellow ! 51683a_5187566cc3064bf19012aa71658e10d4~

Want more posters to read and reply ? "[EMBRACE] THE LINE BREAK"

 

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Hzrdus Yellow HC 6.0 Stiff

Ping G400 hybrids 17*, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

Odyssey V-Line (Today)

Titleist ProV1 (Yellow)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2021 at 9:25 PM, Go Horns! said:

TXG did a video on this. They fit a mid-cap into blades (MP-20s) because the thin sole gave the most help with turf interaction. 

 

Did the fitter show you the dispersion patterns? Sure his best strikes might be with the MMCs, but are they too few and far between? 

They did but i thought that one was a bit silly... the guy hit the MMC waaaaay straighter. They should’ve just bent them weak to add bounce. 

Callaway Mavrik SZ 9* Ventus Black 6x

Callaway EFSZ @ 14* Ventus Black 7x

Callaway TC Apex 2019 Hybrid @ 19* Veylix Rome 988X (Gamer) | Taylormade Sim UDI 2i Hzrdus Handcrafted Black 105x

Callaway X-Forged UT 24* Project X 6.5

Callaway Apex MB 5-PW Project X 6.5 | Srixon z945 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 

Vokey JDM Forged 50F & 56M Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

Vokey Tour Issue Raw TVD Prototype M 60* KBS Wedge 130x

Odyssey White Hot Pro #7 | Odyssey White Hot Pro #1 | Byron Morgan DH89 34/70*/2*

Srixon Z Star XV 2021

Linksouldier 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, greenwavegolfer said:

Manufacturers generally only compare based on MOI and that's certainly the easiest way to calculate with real numbers and compare, but it doesn't make an iron most forgiving for every single player.

 

Yes, MOI is only a starting point. Sometimes forgiveness features can be "too much of a good thing."

 

* Excess offset leading ball leftward for some...

 

* SGI: High launch heads + high launch shafts = short iron shots that all balloon...

 

* 40-gram shaft that gives you more distance forward, or hard left, or banana right... 

What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind being tested as possible SW to replace MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • 2021 3M Open - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #5
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #6
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #7
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #8
       
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #5
       
       
       
      TaylorMade MG3 wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Mizuno 225 2 iron - 2021 3M Open
      TaylorMade Mini Driver - 2021 3M Open
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 3M Open
      New Odyssey putter cover - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Rypstick training aid - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi putters and covers - 2021 3M Open
      Kuch putting right armlock - 2021 3M Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 12 replies
    • 2021 TPC Colorado Champ. @ Heron Lakes WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #1
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #2
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #3
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #4
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #5
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #6
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #7
       
      Titleist T200 2& 3 irons - 2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes
       

       

       
      • 16 replies
    • 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic WITB Photos- Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here.
       
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #3
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #4
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #5
       
      Cameron putters - 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       

       
       
       
       
      • 15 replies
    • 2021 Travelers Championship - Discussion & Links
      2021 Titleist T100 irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist T100S irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist U 505 (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      Mitsubishi Tensei K series (red, white & blue US Open) shaft - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      Rickie Fowler's custom Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #2
       
      • 20 replies
    • Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Discussion and Links
      Please put any question or comments here.
       
      Links to the galleries...
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #1
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #2
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #3
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #4
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #5
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #6
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #7
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #8
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #9
       
      Adam Svensson with new model of Puma golf shoes - 2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry)
       


       
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #1
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #2
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #3
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #4
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #5
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #6
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #7
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #8
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #9
       
      Adam Svensson with new model of Puma golf shoes - 2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry)
       

       
        • Like
      • 4 replies

×
×
  • Create New...