Club Champion Driver Fitting Gut Check

[Cactus Jack]

I've scheduled a full bag fitting with Club Champion. I've read some great reviews, but also several bad reviews too. Most the bad reviews seem to center around folks feeling pressured to buy incredibly expensive setups. I'm going in with an open mind, and do intend to buy, but thought I'd ask for your input so I can gut check their suggestions, and maximize my chance of success. I'm specifically interested in your thoughts on the driver as that's my most likely day of purchase. 

 

My current driver is a 9* G410 LST with a stiff flex, 6.0, Evenflow Black shaft. Currently, I have it lofted down as far as possible and have the weight in the toe. My round killing nightmare miss is hooking the ball off the planet. I like the head, but am interested in trying different shafts. I don't know my swing speed, but below is ball data from the launch monitor at my local big box store.

 

Based on the numbers (sorry...the yellow circle was me talking crap to my BIL 🙂 ) what would you look for in a shaft? What do you suggest I try? While I intend to follow the fitters lead, I'm not super excited about taking 100 driver swings. I'd much rather have a few targets in mind and work as efficiently as possible. As such, any insight that you can share would be appreciated. Thanks, and I hope all is well!

[eth4and]

24 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

I've scheduled a full bag fitting with Club Champion. I've read some great reviews, but also several bad reviews too. Most the bad reviews seem to center around folks feeling pressured to buy incredibly expensive setups. I'm going in with an open mind, and do intend to buy, but thought I'd ask for your input so I can gut check their suggestions, and maximize my chance of success. I'm specifically interested in your thoughts on the driver as that's my most likely day of purchase. 

 

My current driver is a 9* G410 LST with a stiff flex, 6.0, Evenflow Black shaft. Currently, I have it lofted down as far as possible and have the weight in the toe. My round killing nightmare miss is hooking the ball off the planet. I like the head, but am interested in trying different shafts. I don't know my swing speed, but below is ball data from the launch monitor at my local big box store.

 

Based on the numbers (sorry...the yellow circle was me talking crap to my BIL 🙂 ) what would you look for in a shaft? What do you suggest I try? While I intend to follow the fitters lead, I'm not super excited about taking 100 driver swings. I'd much rather have a few targets in mind and work as efficiently as possible. As such, any insight that you can share would be appreciated. Thanks, and I hope all is well!

Looks like you're getting quite a bit of juice out of that G410LST + EvenFlow Black 6.0stiff+ combo. For starters, with your ball speeds, I'd say you should be in an X-stiff (borderline TX for certain shaft OEMs). The G410LST & the SIM were two really good driver heads at mitigating the big left miss. Out of curiosity, did you ever play around with the "flat" settings on your Ping adapter? In terms of other shafts to try, assuming you like the "feel" of your current gamer, the Ventus Blue (Velocore), Accra TZ6 CB, and Graphite Design Tour AD-TP/IZ/XC would all be ones I would try. Good luck! 

[Aviador Naval]

I did a drivers and irons fitting at Club Champion.  I would consider doing the driver again but not the irons.  Clubs struck from the ground need to be struck from the ground in my opinion...

 

As far as mindset, if the fitter is any good, which we’ll assume he is for this discussion, you’ll have a brief interview about your game, recent trends, desires, etc.  You’ll then warm-up and hit 3-5 balls for a baseline of your current set-up.  Those swings will inform the choices he gives you.  You’ll hit a few with one shaft, switch shafts, hit some more, discuss.  You’ll rinse/repeat as much as necessary or time allows.  You don’t need to hit a million balls or every shaft in the place.  There is no magic combo that will find you ten extra yards or the middle of the fairway every time.  Rather, you should find something that helps you find the center of the clubface most frequently which will translate into tighter dispersion.

 

Recommend you enter with as open a mind as possible.  If there is something that is an absolute show-stopper, share it in the pre-fit interview.  For instance, I said I simply cannot play large SGI offset in irons.  A little is fine but too much was a non-starter.

 

in the end you’ll find some options and have some choices.  Remember, there is NO obligation to buy...  I had two driver shafts much better than the other 5 or 6 we tried.  One was modestly priced.  The other outrageous.  Not once was I pushed toward the crazy expensive one.  In fact, he said, based on numbers, no reason to spend the extra money.

 

I had one iron shaft I hit MUCH better than all others.  It was moderately priced as well - not DG but not Recoil Protoype either...

 

In the end, I purchased no clubs/shafts from them.  Turns out I was in good heads (AP2 and 913D3).  Had a club builder with whom I had a previous relationship to the shaft changes.  The shafts were in significantly different profiles/weights then what I had been playing.  Again, arrive with an open mind.  As an example, I struggled with excess launch angle and was trying to combat it with heavy tip stiff shafts per the conventional wisdom.  Ended up in mid-kick, medium weights shafts in both and launch came down to an ideal place for me swingspeed.

 

They will likely try to push you into buying and while doing so getting PUREing and perhaps some other bells/whistles.  I politely declined and left.

 

BL - open mind, normal swing vice ‘hey BIL, check this out’ swing, honest dialogue with fitter, resolve in post fitting purchase discussion.

 

Good luck and enjoy.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[RogerinNewZealand]

Above are great shaft ideas.Videos on line re solve the Hook...its my miss too.

Hit a hook on saturday,re teed up my best drive in a while,so its 50% mental..my ping raptures still ok.Wish you the best at CC.Just get the data, recommendations, walk out.Then recheck the shaft data,maybe buy 2 shafts and test with a Coach and a Trackman....👍

[SugarLandGolfer]

I just did a fitting with them November. My fitter focused first on increasing smash factor to at least 1.45. Your numbers look solid if those are close to your typical numbers and you aren’t taking out a ton of hooks, it will likely be down to a shaft to get dispersion down. Since you’re playing with a g410, I’d be shocked if you find something light years ahead. 
 

also, hooks are a normal fight for those with a draw when the hands don’t sync perfectly. Equipment cant fix that problem. There’s a reason some great players prefer a fade off the tee, “you can talk to a fade, but a hook won’t listen”. 

[Go Horns!]

Tell them your budget for buying a new driver. They will have shafts that OEMs offer. If you don't want a $350 after-market shaft, tell them that upfront.

 

You don't want to be back here saying you got fitted into shaft XYZ, and asking what OEM shaft has a similar profile.

[SugarLandGolfer]

If you’re willing to buy a new driver, you could just get a new shaft for your the g410 and spend less money to get it installed and get as good results as getting a new driver.

[Cactus Jack]

44 minutes ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

If you’re willing to buy a new driver, you could just get a new shaft for your the g410 and spend less money to get it installed and get as good results as getting a new driver.

 

My plan is to optimize my current driver, then compare the optimized version to a few other models. If nothing is noticeably better, I'll just buy the recommend shaft.

 

I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to heads in that I like them to sit open. It just suites my eye and gives me confidence to attack. I think the Ping will be hard to beat, but I am interested in the SIM, but nothing else has grabbed my attention. 

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, eth4and said:

Looks like you're getting quite a bit of juice out of that G410LST + EvenFlow Black 6.0stiff+ combo. For starters, with your ball speeds, I'd say you should be in an X-stiff (borderline TX for certain shaft OEMs). The G410LST & the SIM were two really good driver heads at mitigating the big left miss. Out of curiosity, did you ever play around with the "flat" settings on your Ping adapter? In terms of other shafts to try, assuming you like the "feel" of your current gamer, the Ventus Blue (Velocore), Accra TZ6 CB, and Graphite Design Tour AD-TP/IZ/XC would all be ones I would try. Good luck! 

 

Thanks for the great insight. I do like the feel of the EvenFlow, but it does feel a bit loose. I've always been too afraid to play X anything. My 7 iron swing speed is in the 90s and folks say I should play X100s, but I stick with S300s. X100s intimidate me, and honestly, the S300 just feel good. This fitting will be interesting. 

 

I haven't played with the flat settings, I should give that a shot. I opted to decrease the loft 1.5* which the flat setting doesnt offer, because I was launching the ball too high with too much spin. That's my personal assessment anyway as I made these tweaks at a normal driving range. 

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, Aviador Naval said:

I did a drivers and irons fitting at Club Champion.  I would consider doing the driver again but not the irons.  Clubs struck from the ground need to be struck from the ground in my opinion...

 

As far as mindset, if the fitter is any good, which we’ll assume he is for this discussion, you’ll have a brief interview about your game, recent trends, desires, etc.  You’ll then warm-up and hit 3-5 balls for a baseline of your current set-up.  Those swings will inform the choices he gives you.  You’ll hit a few with one shaft, switch shafts, hit some more, discuss.  You’ll rinse/repeat as much as necessary or time allows.  You don’t need to hit a million balls or every shaft in the place.  There is no magic combo that will find you ten extra yards or the middle of the fairway every time.  Rather, you should find something that helps you find the center of the clubface most frequently which will translate into tighter dispersion.

 

Recommend you enter with as open a mind as possible.  If there is something that is an absolute show-stopper, share it in the pre-fit interview.  For instance, I said I simply cannot play large SGI offset in irons.  A little is fine but too much was a non-starter.

 

in the end you’ll find some options and have some choices.  Remember, there is NO obligation to buy...  I had two driver shafts much better than the other 5 or 6 we tried.  One was modestly priced.  The other outrageous.  Not once was I pushed toward the crazy expensive one.  In fact, he said, based on numbers, no reason to spend the extra money.

 

I had one iron shaft I hit MUCH better than all others.  It was moderately priced as well - not DG but not Recoil Protoype either...

 

In the end, I purchased no clubs/shafts from them.  Turns out I was in good heads (AP2 and 913D3).  Had a club builder with whom I had a previous relationship to the shaft changes.  The shafts were in significantly different profiles/weights then what I had been playing.  Again, arrive with an open mind.  As an example, I struggled with excess launch angle and was trying to combat it with heavy tip stiff shafts per the conventional wisdom.  Ended up in mid-kick, medium weights shafts in both and launch came down to an ideal place for me swingspeed.

 

They will likely try to push you into buying and while doing so getting PUREing and perhaps some other bells/whistles.  I politely declined and left.

 

BL - open mind, normal swing vice ‘hey BIL, check this out’ swing, honest dialogue with fitter, resolve in post fitting purchase discussion.

 

Good luck and enjoy.

 

Thanks for the great rundown. I really appreciate you taking the time to share so much detail. 

 

Find the center of the face is a huge goal of mine. All of the shots I shared were far from center strikes. My miss is toe...both high and low. I'm getting better, taking lessons, and practicing, but I have a long way to go. I think it will be fun to dial in length and weight to see if I can improve the strike performance. 

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

I just did a fitting with them November. My fitter focused first on increasing smash factor to at least 1.45. Your numbers look solid if those are close to your typical numbers and you aren’t taking out a ton of hooks, it will likely be down to a shaft to get dispersion down. Since you’re playing with a g410, I’d be shocked if you find something light years ahead. 
 

also, hooks are a normal fight for those with a draw when the hands don’t sync perfectly. Equipment cant fix that problem. There’s a reason some great players prefer a fade off the tee, “you can talk to a fade, but a hook won’t listen”. 

 

That's a pretty good cross section of typical shots, but I did throw out some horrendous swings... I'm still learning the game and finding my swing, which the numbers do bear out. For example, ball speed fluctuates 12mph, spin fluctuates 1,000+ RPM, Launch varies by 6* etc,. I doubt I hit any of those balls in the center, above, below, left, and right is more my style. 

 

I'm working hard to neutralize my path. I can get very in to out, which leads to early extension, which leads to flipping... Couple that with a stronger grip and closed face, I can hit a 250 yard hook 10 feet off the ground with the best of them. It feels like an unpredictable circus trick.

[eth4and]

9 hours ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

I just did a fitting with them November. My fitter focused first on increasing smash factor to at least 1.45. Your numbers look solid if those are close to your typical numbers and you aren’t taking out a ton of hooks, it will likely be down to a shaft to get dispersion down. Since you’re playing with a g410, I’d be shocked if you find something light years ahead. 
 

also, hooks are a normal fight for those with a draw when the hands don’t sync perfectly. Equipment cant fix that problem. There’s a reason some great players prefer a fade off the tee, “you can talk to a fade, but a hook won’t listen”. 

SugarLand is absolutely correct about the dreaded hooks. That said, the G410LST is one of the best heads out there at neutralizing the big hook miss. You can go -1* loft in the flat settings (so not quite the same -1.5* that you're playing with, but close).

 

Other things that can help compound the neutralization of that big left miss with the G410 LST include:

(i) shift the moveable weight to the toe; this will also help juice your ball speeds on those slightly toe-side strikes

(ii) experiment with a larger grip (will make it harder to over flip your hands); you may be able to get by with a MCC +4 midsize, but if you need more, don't be afraid to try Jumbomax Ultralight...

 

All these things in combination should help you shift your ball flight pattern to a fade. By starting with the extreme, you can then dial-it back until its optimal. Further, the EvenFlow was a good shaft, but it wasn't great (especially if you're playing the stock non-handcrafted version). Someone else mentioned you may get just as much bang for your buck retrofitting your existing driver head into a new upgrade shaft vs. brand new driver, I agree. Compared to your current gamer, I'd expect any of the shafts I mentioned before will minimize that "loose" feeling you noted. That said, the stock shaft offerings in some of the new models have improved dramatically.  Both the TSi and new G425 now include the new Tensei AV raw white/orange - which I think could be a decent fit for you. The TSi also includes small upcharge Graphite Design shafts. Good luck!

 

 

 

[mgoblue83]

Give the Ping Tour 65X a try. Fantastic shaft that was designed for the heavier head weight of the Ping drivers and is very anti-left for me. I switched from a HZRDUS Black 6.5 which is supposed to be very tip stiff and fade biased but I missed left WAY more than I do with the Ping Tour 65x.

[SugarLandGolfer]

1 hour ago, eth4and said:

SugarLand is absolutely correct about the dreaded hooks. That said, the G410LST is one of the best heads out there at neutralizing the big hook miss. You can go -1* loft in the flat settings (so not quite the same -1.5* that you're playing with, but close).

 

Other things that can help compound the neutralization of that big left miss with the G410 LST include:

(i) shift the moveable weight to the toe; this will also help juice your ball speeds on those slightly toe-side strikes

(ii) experiment with a larger grip (will make it harder to over flip your hands); you may be able to get by with a MCC +4 midsize, but if you need more, don't be afraid to try Jumbomax Ultralight...

 

All these things in combination should help you shift your ball flight pattern to a fade. By starting with the extreme, you can then dial-it back until its optimal. Further, the EvenFlow was a good shaft, but it wasn't great (especially if you're playing the stock non-handcrafted version). Someone else mentioned you may get just as much bang for your buck retrofitting your existing driver head into a new upgrade shaft vs. brand new driver, I agree. Compared to your current gamer, I'd expect any of the shafts I mentioned before will minimize that "loose" feeling you noted. That said, the stock shaft offerings in some of the new models have improved dramatically.  Both the TSi and new G425 now include the new Tensei AV raw white/orange - which I think could be a decent fit for you. The TSi also includes small upcharge Graphite Design shafts. Good luck!

 

 

 

I’ll be honest, I switched from attempting to handle a draw to playing a fade ever since I got my 410 LST last month and I’ve been much happier with the results. I actually need to go back in to CC in the next couple weeks for the “90 day guarantee” to make sure the setup is actually optimized for a fade since I was trying to play a draw while being fit. 
 

FYI, if you do go the CC to get the shaft done on your driver, they will pure your shaft and then glue the shaft into the hosel (for ping). You can’t adjust it after that without going back to them which isn’t ideal.

[Cactus Jack]

54 minutes ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

I’ll be honest, I switched from attempting to handle a draw to playing a fade ever since I got my 410 LST last month and I’ve been much happier with the results. I actually need to go back in to CC in the next couple weeks for the “90 day guarantee” to make sure the setup is actually optimized for a fade since I was trying to play a draw while being fit. 
 

FYI, if you do go the CC to get the shaft done on your driver, they will pure your shaft and then glue the shaft into the hosel (for ping). You can’t adjust it after that without going back to them which isn’t ideal.

 

Thanks for the heads up regarding CC's approach to the shaft. I was not aware they would glue the shaft and I'd lose the adjustability features of the head. Knowing this I'll take their recommendations, and purchase elsewhere.

 

I really like my LST. I like both the sound and feel, and get good results. I do play the stock Evenflow shaft, not the handcrafted version. I'm pretty excited to try out a few shafts to see if I can dial in the dispersion. Also, I'm excited to test different lengths and weights and see if I can improve my strike. My gut says with the right shaft the performance can only improve. I might not get more distance, but the total package might take a noticeable step forward.   

[SugarLandGolfer]

Just now, Cactus Jack said:

 

Thanks for the heads up regarding CC's approach to the shaft. I was not aware they would glue the shaft and I'd lose the adjustability features of the head. Knowing this I'll take their recommendations, and purchase elsewhere.

 

I really like my LST. I like both the sound and feel, and get good results. I do play the stock Evenflow shaft, not the handcrafted version. I'm pretty excited to try out a few shafts to see if I can dial in the dispersion. Also, I'm excited to test different lengths and weights and see if I can improve my strike. My gut says with the right shaft the performance can only improve. I might not get more distance, but the total package might take a noticeable step forward.   

it took me a hot second to get used to it, but the Ventus black shaft has been pretty great. It’s as expensive as a club by itself, but it worked very well for my swing. Ended up getting a Ventus blue in fairway because I liked it so much. But honestly, the best part about going to CC is just trying all the head and shaft combos. Have fun with it.

[JCAG]

I say always compare your existing driver to a recommended new driver, right then and there. No  gain, no sale.