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SIM2 Predictions - Where will this driver stand in TMs history?


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I don't know why this driver release season has me so pumped, maybe because the big 3 are all dropping at once, maybe because the 425s look like the best looking driver of all time, the fact that Cally has a MAX LS, or maybe because it seems like everyone is now maximizing MOI while keeping it low spin. I think Ping and Cally are sort of known quantities every year, they will have incremental improvement and of course be excellent drivers. The SIM2 has me excited, but cautious. TM is obviously the #1 driver in golf but they sort of have this reputation of making a big splash with a new line, and then sort of fizzling out for a few drivers, and then making a splash again. I love that TM is talking about MOI (finally) and has something that caters to the draw crowd (without having to get a D head) instead of all you monsters you just hit slow spin cuts. But because of the not-so-classic-off-year color scheme, the fact that they removed the sliding weight (which I applaud), and the fact that this is the followup release to a new line.. something has me cautious about this driver. 

 

So where will the SIM2 stand in TM history?

 

Will it be like a 2016M2 - the second in a new line of M drivers that becomes a cult classic?

Or a 2017M2 - the "throwaway" drop where they improved sound, and (maybe) forgiveness but never outshined the buzz of the OG

Will it be like an M4/M6 - the "alternate" driver that no one plays because the M3/M5 offer lower spin and adjustability

Or will it be like a R9 superdeep - some random one-off that never seemed too popular but stayed in bags for decades

Will it be a Jetspeed/Aeroburner/SLDR-C - considered a flop by many but with a loyal following who find it necessary to remind you that "its actually a pretty good driver"

 

I am going with 2016M2  - cult status overtaking the popularity of the OG SIM, redefining MOI within the low spin category, and actually making the color customization a real thing (sorry Cally). Because it damn sure needs to be that in order to pry my eyes away from the 425LST

 

Get your predictions in!

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Unreal post lol. It's 2021. You will find the most gains with a fitting, and marginal gains versus previous years/manufacturers that will be a personal decision on value for the price. Every manufactu

I think the marketing machine might have worked on someone 😅 

Based on every review I've read and watched, I actually think it may be the 2017 M2.  The '16 M2 was definitely a Mt. Rushmore driver for TM, and I would put the R510TP, R7, and OG SIM up there with i

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2 hours ago, DaRiz said:

I don't know why this driver release season has me so pumped, maybe because the big 3 are all dropping at once, maybe because the 425s look like the best looking driver of all time, the fact that Cally has a MAX LS, or maybe because it seems like everyone is now maximizing MOI while keeping it low spin. I think Ping and Cally are sort of known quantities every year, they will have incremental improvement and of course be excellent drivers. The SIM2 has me excited, but cautious. TM is obviously the #1 driver in golf but they sort of have this reputation of making a big splash with a new line, and then sort of fizzling out for a few drivers, and then making a splash again. I love that TM is talking about MOI (finally) and has something that caters to the draw crowd (without having to get a D head) instead of all you monsters you just hit slow spin cuts. But because of the not-so-classic-off-year color scheme, the fact that they removed the sliding weight (which I applaud), and the fact that this is the followup release to a new line.. something has me cautious about this driver. 

 

So where will the SIM2 stand in TM history?

 

Will it be like a 2016M2 - the second in a new line of M drivers that becomes a cult classic?

Or a 2017M2 - the "throwaway" drop where they improved sound, and (maybe) forgiveness but never outshined the buzz of the OG

Will it be like an M4/M6 - the "alternate" driver that no one plays because the M3/M5 offer lower spin and adjustability

Or will it be like a R9 superdeep - some random one-off that never seemed too popular but stayed in bags for decades

Will it be a Jetspeed/Aeroburner/SLDR-C - considered a flop by many but with a loyal following who find it necessary to remind you that "its actually a pretty good driver"

 

I am going with 2016M2  - cult status overtaking the popularity of the OG SIM, redefining MOI within the low spin category, and actually making the color customization a real thing (sorry Cally). Because it damn sure needs to be that in order to pry my eyes away from the 425LST

 

Get your predictions in!

16m2 was the bar setter. 16m2 is akin to sim. 17m2 is akin to sim2 and I believe how sim2 will be remembered. 

 

The real question is now that we know what sim2 is, how do you think TM will reincorporate MWT in SIM3?

Edited by getitdaily
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It’s so hard to quantify.  If you are strictly talking about this site, I’ll go with the 2017 M2.  Not because I’ve hit it but many critics have already formed their opinion and it’s based of You Tube reviews.  


I’ll hit mine and if I don’t like it, I’ll move on.  Can’t count the number of “awesome” drivers and shafts I’ve hit that didn’t work for me and the number of times I pipe my old 9015D with the F7M2 LTD right out there with my gamer.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Mookie91 said:

It’s so hard to quantify.  If you are strictly talking about this site, I’ll go with the 2017 M2.  Not because I’ve hit it but many critics have already formed their opinion and it’s based of You Tube reviews.  


I’ll hit mine and if I don’t like it, I’ll move on.  Can’t count the number of “awesome” drivers and shafts I’ve hit that didn’t work for me and the number of times I pipe my old 9015D with the F7M2 LTD right out there with my gamer.

 

 

That’s a pretty tough combo to beat!

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I think somewhere between the 2016 and 2017 M2 versions. I don't think it overtakes the original SIM in popularity but I also don't think it's looked at as "inferior" or anything either. I think it will definitely be popular (what TM drivers aren't?) but from what I've seen in early reports it doesn't seem like a big leap forward from the SIM, mostly cosmetic changes and the removal of the weight track which some people find to be a downgrade. So I don't see it being "throwaway" like the '17 M2, but I think the original will prove to be the more historically significant version as time passes much like the '16 M2.

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TM does tend to start with a fresh concept that has standout performance and/or feature characteristics and then iterate on it for the next several releases, so the first model almost by design will be the one to make a splash with subsequent models usually being less memorable. I think the SIM in both the drivers and fairways (obviously biased lol) will definitely be remembered, especially if any big tour names return to/stick with them. 

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Taylormade SIM 10.5* Diamana X'17 70TX 
Taylormade SIM Ti V2 15* Kuro Kage XD 80TX || Taylormade SIM Ti Tour Issue 16* Kuro Kage 80XTS
Taylormade SIM Max 18.5* Tensei Pro White 90TX || Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro Orange 90TX
Taylormade GAPR Lo 3 18.5* Kuro Kage 100XTS Hybrid
Taylormade RSI UDI 20* Project X PXi 7.0
Bridgestone J40 DPC 4i-7i 23*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey Mild Raw 8620 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
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3 hours ago, greenwavegolfer said:

I think somewhere between the 2016 and 2017 M2 versions. I don't think it overtakes the original SIM in popularity but I also don't think it's looked at as "inferior" or anything either. I think it will definitely be popular (what TM drivers aren't?) but from what I've seen in early reports it doesn't seem like a big leap forward from the SIM, mostly cosmetic changes and the removal of the weight track which some people find to be a downgrade. So I don't see it being "throwaway" like the '17 M2, but I think the original will prove to be the more historically significant version as time passes much like the '16 M2.

 

Totally agree - the deeper face alone is a step up for many who didn't love the SIM.

 

It would be nice if someone would start doing real forgiveness tests.  Take 1k shots, export data, sort by contact point, share average numbers for 9 points across the face.  Shocked someone isn't doing this already.

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3 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

 

Totally agree - the deeper face alone is a step up for many who didn't love the SIM.

 

It would be nice if someone would start doing real forgiveness tests.  Take 1k shots, export data, sort by contact point, share average numbers for 9 points across the face.  Shocked someone isn't doing this already.


Agreed, that would be very helpful and honestly really not that hard to do. 

Taylormade SIM 10.5* Diamana X'17 70TX 
Taylormade SIM Ti V2 15* Kuro Kage XD 80TX || Taylormade SIM Ti Tour Issue 16* Kuro Kage 80XTS
Taylormade SIM Max 18.5* Tensei Pro White 90TX || Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro Orange 90TX
Taylormade GAPR Lo 3 18.5* Kuro Kage 100XTS Hybrid
Taylormade RSI UDI 20* Project X PXi 7.0
Bridgestone J40 DPC 4i-7i 23*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey Mild Raw 8620 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Pro Platinum

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I've played a Taylormade driver since 2016 M2.  Currently play the SIM.  I'm pretty disappointed with the SIM2 lineup.  No face adjustability, barely any difference between the SIM2 and SIM2 Max.  Also Taylormade's obsession with low spin to produce more distance has gone too far. Yes it produces more distance but without enough backspin, the sidespin takes over resulting in slices/hooks and missed fairways.

 

Don't believe me?  Take a look at the 3D Shot Tracker on pgatour.com.  Most of their tee shots with driver are in the 2,500 rpm range.

 

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I foresee many warranty claims about that sole....flop. 

 

OG SIM = '16 M2

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TM 2016 M2 12* - OG Grafalloy Blue X, 43.5"

TEE XCG7 16.5* 4w, OG Grafalloy Blue S, 41.75"

Cally Rogue X 18.5* 4i, Diamana 70 S, 39.75"

Cobra King OS 4-G, TT XP95 R300, -.5"

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8 hours ago, DaRiz said:

I don't know why this driver release season has me so pumped, maybe because the big 3 are all dropping at once, maybe because the 425s look like the best looking driver of all time, the fact that Cally has a MAX LS, or maybe because it seems like everyone is now maximizing MOI while keeping it low spin. I think Ping and Cally are sort of known quantities every year, they will have incremental improvement and of course be excellent drivers. The SIM2 has me excited, but cautious. TM is obviously the #1 driver in golf but they sort of have this reputation of making a big splash with a new line, and then sort of fizzling out for a few drivers, and then making a splash again. I love that TM is talking about MOI (finally) and has something that caters to the draw crowd (without having to get a D head) instead of all you monsters you just hit slow spin cuts. But because of the not-so-classic-off-year color scheme, the fact that they removed the sliding weight (which I applaud), and the fact that this is the followup release to a new line.. something has me cautious about this driver. 

 

So where will the SIM2 stand in TM history?

 

Will it be like a 2016M2 - the second in a new line of M drivers that becomes a cult classic?

Or a 2017M2 - the "throwaway" drop where they improved sound, and (maybe) forgiveness but never outshined the buzz of the OG

Will it be like an M4/M6 - the "alternate" driver that no one plays because the M3/M5 offer lower spin and adjustability

Or will it be like a R9 superdeep - some random one-off that never seemed too popular but stayed in bags for decades

Will it be a Jetspeed/Aeroburner/SLDR-C - considered a flop by many but with a loyal following who find it necessary to remind you that "its actually a pretty good driver"

 

I am going with 2016M2  - cult status overtaking the popularity of the OG SIM, redefining MOI within the low spin category, and actually making the color customization a real thing (sorry Cally). Because it damn sure needs to be that in order to pry my eyes away from the 425LST

 

Get your predictions in!

I hit it and im stickin with my 2020 sim. Mistake to take the weight track out in my opinion. 

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1 hour ago, MysteryV said:

 

Totally agree - the deeper face alone is a step up for many who didn't love the SIM.

 

It would be nice if someone would start doing real forgiveness tests.  Take 1k shots, export data, sort by contact point, share average numbers for 9 points across the face.  Shocked someone isn't doing this already.

Thats alot of work to see no real difference 

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'17 M2 feels about the right level.  That seems to be the way for most the companies this year, except maybe Titleist.  Arguable that Titleist have caught up rather than overtaking though.

 

I think people can literally pick their favourite in looks/sound/feel and with a good fitting get near identical performance from all of the current crop.

Driver / 5W / 5H - Ping G410

3i - TM Sim

5-pw - MP20 HMB

50 / 56 / 60 - T20

Bettinardi QB8, Stability Shaft

 

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I think the SIM raised the bar and the SIM2 will be another driver that might outperform or might not outperform your current driver 

Driver = Taylormade SIM 8* Hzrdus green 6.0

1 iron = Titleist U501 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
3 iron = Titleist U500 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
Irons = Wilson Staff FG59,  4-PW
Wedges = Titleist 52* SM6

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Ball = Bridgestone Tour B RXS

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8 hours ago, MysteryV said:

 

So you're of the belief that all drivers offer the exact same level of forgiveness across the face?   

No,  but if we are talking comparing sim to sim 2, or 410 to 425... it wont be much if at all. You would HAVE to do it on an iron byron, because in human testing, there is no way to control speed, loft delivered, face angle, AOA, etc. In actuality, the newer models might actually test WORSE. Thats why no OEM does this, even though they easily could. There would be nothing to sell.  Even if there were some differences, they would be extremely small. 

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I think people are missing the mark on SIM2. From a performance standpoint, it's going to be a little more forgiving and a little more consistent. It's not going to be revolutionary in performance, so I fully understand the comparisons to the '17 M2 (which is one of my favorite drivers of all time). I get all that. But from a product perspective, I don't believe it's fair to just think of SIM2 as a gen 2 SIM.

 

SIM was the logical conclusion of the original M series and it completed what was possible in that design/architecture. In comparison, SIM2 feels like a full re-platforming: full carbon sole, first meaningful change to ICT in years, etc. It's a new base from which the next 5 years of their drivers will be built. So while it might just be a slightly improved SIM in performance, and therefore folks already in SIM would have little reason to switch, I think we'll remember this as the driver that started the next evolution in TM drivers.

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TaylorMade MG raw 52, raw Hi-Toe 58 - DG S400 Tour Issue
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5 minutes ago, jll62 said:

I think people are missing the mark on SIM2. From a performance standpoint, it's going to be a little more forgiving and a little more consistent. It's not going to be revolutionary in performance, so I fully understand the comparisons to the '17 M2 (which is one of my favorite drivers of all time). I get all that. But from a product perspective, I don't believe it's fair to just think of SIM2 as a gen 2 SIM.

 

SIM was the logical conclusion of the original M series and it completed what was possible in that design/architecture. In comparison, SIM2 feels like a full re-platforming: full carbon sole, first meaningful change to ICT in years, etc. It's a new base from which the next 5 years of their drivers will be built. So while it might just be a slightly improved SIM in performance, and therefore folks already in SIM would have little reason to switch, I think we'll remember this as the driver that started the next evolution in TM drivers.

First tm driver without moveable weight since....? I guess 2015. Id call that a step back, or at the very least lateral movement.

Edited by Red4282
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i wish the old toe weights would come back like in the r5 dual etc

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