Post Round Assessment

[leezer99]

So my son played in a couple of events these past couple of weeks and week one was awful... not just awful but like "should I ever play golf again" awful.  Second week was much much better... the kind that revives you and lets you forget about the bad and focus on the future.

 

That being said, there are some things he does after his rounds that I think might help others and that includes taking stock of the good and bad while also realizing that his performance lies solely on his shoulders and not what others around him are doing.  Like many parents, I provide everything he needs to be successful but it's up to him to put in the time and effort.

 

He has three sheets that he works off of after every round that ask some basic questions around his mental state. 

 

• First sheet is narrative where it asks questions like, "How well did I play aggressive golf? In What situations did I play protection golf and guide the ball?"  He then has to go and type in his responses to all nine of these questions.
• Second sheet is a scoring sheet from 1 - 10 that has some mental skill dimension factors like this:
  • Process Oriented 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Result Oriented
  • He circles where he felt he was during the round.
• The third sheet is another scoring sheet but speaks to his type of play like this:
  • My Style of Play:
  • Very Conservative 1 - 10 Very Aggressive
  • Again he circles where he felt he was during his round

 

Being able to identify what he does to be successful and what to avoid that leads to failure is important for him.  He's going through a lot of changes (12 yo boy stuff) and his mind is kind of all over the place.  By quantifying things in this way it helps give him a roadmap.  Since this is all just a crazy journey it's helpful to know what roads lead to success.

 

Then after he has filled out those forms he shares them on a zoom call with his performance coach.  They talk it out and he takes away a few nuggets each time.  

 

I  do not attend these calls, inquire about what they talked about or force him to do it.  He's the one that asks me to set up the calls for him.  My only job is to venmo the coach his fee.

 

Soooo... if you find yourself trying to explain away poor performance I'd encourage you to really look within and try to figure out why you're doing that.  The results aren't yours... they are your kid's.  Let them take ownership of the results, process, criticism and whatever adoration comes their way.

[kekoa]

I'm sure the first tournament you are referring to was at Tukwet.  We all know your son is way better than that.  I think best thing to do in those situations is to forget about it asap and move on.  Its hard to truly analyze blow up rounds in my opinion.  A few of our friends shot huge rounds for that tournament when they seemed to be doing just fine during practice rounds.   

 

The question worksheet is probably a bit too advanced for younger kids, but I can see how it would be beneficial for older ones.  

[tiger1873]

People don't want to hear the truth but many times it simply the kid doesn't have the skills to deal with the situation at the time.

 

In a lot cases the kid simply is not good enough or doesn't listen to their instructor.

 

Pulling our endless stats and telling them just if they have a better mental game is all BS after a while. You kids is going to get worse if you pull out endless stats their missing greens not making this putt or what ever. The bigger question is why are they missing the greens. 

 

Stats are fine but once you figure out where strokes are gone you have to actually know the reason behind it.

 

If the ball was in a divot learn how to hit that shot.  In some cases you don't have a makeble shot so how do you deal with it. 

 

Also play your game not someone else's stop coping other people who can do things you can't for instance if a PGA player hits a driver off the deck it doesn't mean your kid can.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by tiger1873

[jj9000]

16 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

People don't want to hear the truth but many times it simply the kid doesn't have the skills to deal with the situation at the time.

 

In a lot cases the kid simply is not good enough or doesn't listen to their instructor.

 

Pulling our endless stats and telling them just if they have a better mental game is all BS after a while. You kids is going to get worse if you pull out endless stats their missing greens not making this putt or what ever. The bigger question is why are they missing the greens. 

 

Stats are fine but once you figure out where strokes are gone you have to actually know the reason behind it.

 

If the ball was in a divot learn how to hit that shot.  In some cases you don't have a makeble shot so how do you deal with it. 

 

Also play your game not someone else's stop coping other people who can do things you can't for instance if a PGA player hits a driver off the deck it doesn't mean your kid can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

28 minutes ago, kekoa said:

I'm sure the first tournament you are referring to was at Tukwet.  We all know your son is way better than that.  I think best thing to do in those situations is to forget about it asap and move on.  Its hard to truly analyze blow up rounds in my opinion.  A few of our friends shot huge rounds for that tournament when they seemed to be doing just fine during practice rounds.   

 

The question worksheet is probably a bit too advanced for younger kids, but I can see how it would be beneficial for older ones.  

The best thing about that event was seeing your son in the lead against kids 3 years older than him. I was rooting so hard for him. It’s hard though because we know all of those kids. CG made a great comeback on Sunday but JG has that clutch playoff gene that got him past AW in the end. I guess that new swing coach he’s seeing is paying off. 

[kekoa]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

The best thing about that event was seeing your son in the lead against kids 3 years older than him. I was rooting so hard for him. It’s hard though because we know all of those kids. CG made a great comeback on Sunday but JG has that clutch playoff gene that got him past AW in the end. I guess that new swing coach he’s seeing is paying off. 

Thanks.  I could not believe it, but that back 9 kicked his arse and he never really recovered.   I plan to put him in more of these events just to show him he won't win every tournament he enters.   

[ncalgolf]

6 hours ago, leezer99 said:

So my son played in a couple of events these past couple of weeks and week one was awful... not just awful but like "should I ever play golf again" awful.  Second week was much much better... the kind that revives you and lets you forget about the bad and focus on the future.

 

That being said, there are some things he does after his rounds that I think might help others and that includes taking stock of the good and bad while also realizing that his performance lies solely on his shoulders and not what others around him are doing.  Like many parents, I provide everything he needs to be successful but it's up to him to put in the time and effort.

 

He has three sheets that he works off of after every round that ask some basic questions around his mental state. 

 

• First sheet is narrative where it asks questions like, "How well did I play aggressive golf? In What situations did I play protection golf and guide the ball?"  He then has to go and type in his responses to all nine of these questions.
• Second sheet is a scoring sheet from 1 - 10 that has some mental skill dimension factors like this:
  • Process Oriented 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Result Oriented
  • He circles where he felt he was during the round.
• The third sheet is another scoring sheet but speaks to his type of play like this:
  • My Style of Play:
  • Very Conservative 1 - 10 Very Aggressive
  • Again he circles where he felt he was during his round

 

Being able to identify what he does to be successful and what to avoid that leads to failure is important for him.  He's going through a lot of changes (12 yo boy stuff) and his mind is kind of all over the place.  By quantifying things in this way it helps give him a roadmap.  Since this is all just a crazy journey it's helpful to know what roads lead to success.

 

Then after he has filled out those forms he shares them on a zoom call with his performance coach.  They talk it out and he takes away a few nuggets each time.  

 

I  do not attend these calls, inquire about what they talked about or force him to do it.  He's the one that asks me to set up the calls for him.  My only job is to venmo the coach his fee.

 

Soooo... if you find yourself trying to explain away poor performance I'd encourage you to really look within and try to figure out why you're doing that.  The results aren't yours... they are your kid's.  Let them take ownership of the results, process, criticism and whatever adoration comes their way.

Your boy sounds like a very accomplished golfer at 12 years old.  Do you ever think that having to take notes post round / talk to a performance coach at such a young age ever takes the fun out of the game?  Makes it more like a job?  Or maybe this is something he wanted to do.  My kid just turned 9, so I am looking for ways to help her continue on her journey - trying to fuel the fire not dampen it with parent stuff....curious on your thoughts

[leezer99]

25 minutes ago, ncalgolf said:

Your boy sounds like a very accomplished golfer at 12 years old.  Do you ever think that having to take notes post round / talk to a performance coach at such a young age ever takes the fun out of the game?  Makes it more like a job?  Or maybe this is something he wanted to do.  My kid just turned 9, so I am looking for ways to help her continue on her journey - trying to fuel the fire not dampen it with parent stuff....curious on your thoughts

 

My son actually enjoys the time they get to talk and I think part of it is how he gets to share with me what he learned afterwards and it gives him an outlet other than mom and dad.  I originally had set up this whole thing with this performance coach because I could see him getting frustrated and then realized that I was not the person he should be talking to about it.  I'm dad and of course I could never understand.  Plus I think there need to be boundaries on my son's golf and our relationship.  My son really liked reading his coaches book and gets to hear cool stories about Collin winning the PGA Championship and stuff like that.  For me, I like having his coach around since I know he has developed a junior golfer from the bottom up utilizing a plan put together by him, the player and the family.  Plus he's like five minutes away so it's easy to get with him.

 

To address the 'taking the fun out of the game' piece... I'll just say that at some point in your junior golfers time playing they will be accomplished enough that playing well is fun and playing crappy isn't fun.  The whole getting ice cream and french fries after nine holes to keep it fun kind of just doesn't do it anymore.  The thing I've seen though is that some kids have the fire and some don't.  The ones that don't just want to get french fries and ice cream after the round.

[ncalgolf]

8 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

My son actually enjoys the time they get to talk and I think part of it is how he gets to share with me what he learned afterwards and it gives him an outlet other than mom and dad.  I originally had set up this whole thing with this performance coach because I could see him getting frustrated and then realized that I was not the person he should be talking to about it.  I'm dad and of course I could never understand.  Plus I think there need to be boundaries on my son's golf and our relationship.  My son really liked reading his coaches book and gets to hear cool stories about Collin winning the PGA Championship and stuff like that.  For me, I like having his coach around since I know he has developed a junior golfer from the bottom up utilizing a plan put together by him, the player and the family.  Plus he's like five minutes away so it's easy to get with him.

 

To address the 'taking the fun out of the game' piece... I'll just say that at some point in your junior golfers time playing they will be accomplished enough that playing well is fun and playing crappy isn't fun.  The whole getting ice cream and french fries after nine holes to keep it fun kind of just doesn't do it anymore.  The thing I've seen though is that some kids have the fire and some don't.  The ones that don't just want to get french fries and ice cream after the round.

Thanks for the additional context - makes a lot of sense and well thought out.  very helpful stuff

[heavy_hitter]

This is an excellent post.  At some point it isn't about skill anymore.  It is about Expectation Management.  Rankings, Stars, Self Expectations, Parental Expectations, and for some Social Media Expectations.  As a parent I am not versed in helping my athlete with these expectations.  It is easy to have a game plan and say this is what you need to do.  However, when your kid can go out and kick a 68 around with his buddies but struggles to break 80 in a tournament, that has nothing to do with skill.  

 

My son also sees a Performance  Coach.  He just started his 3rd month and starting to reap the benefits.  He enjoys talking to him and sharing.  We don't talk a lot about what they share and I am good with that.  I don't want nor do I need to know what they discuss.  What I do know is that his behaviors and thoughts about golf are changing.  He is starting to get that fire again and tournament golf is becoming fun.

 

I don't want to be my sons swing coach or performance coach.  I just want to watch them play.  I wish I would have taken this approach with him when he was younger.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

Don't know if it's for everyone, but I definitely think there are some kids who would benefit from this type of process and analysis.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Don't know if it's for everyone, but I definitely think there are some kids who would benefit from this type of process and analysis.

 

It's all about process.  If you have a swing coach they are teaching your junior golfer a process for moving the ball from point A to point B in the most efficient way.  If you don't have a process for playing the game, dealing with success/failure or even understanding your thoughts then you're not addressing half of the game. 

 

It's hard to compare golfers and what their future holds but take a look at Morikawa and Wolff.  One is a brash, long ball hitter that went to a top D1 school with one win (against Collin in a playoff).  The other is a process oriented, short knocker that went to a college outside the top 25 D1 schools, plays to his strengths and has three wins including a major.  Long term I think Collin stands out among the two players.

 

 If you focus on the right processes, in the right way, you can develop a path to success.

Edited January 21, 2021 by leezer99

[heavy_hitter]

35 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

It's all about process.  If you have a swing coach they are teaching your junior golfer a process for moving the ball from point A to point B in the most efficient way.  If you don't have a process for playing the game, dealing with success/failure or even understanding your thoughts then you're not addressing half of the game. 

 

It's hard to compare golfers and what their future holds but take a look at Morikawa and Wolff.  One is a brash, long ball hitter that went to a top D1 school with one win (against Collin in a playoff).  The other is a process oriented, short knocker that went to a college outside the top 25 D1 schools, plays to his strengths and has three wins including a major.  Long term I think Colling stands out among the two players.

 

 If you focus on the right processes, in the right way, you can develop a path to success.

What is between the ears is more important than skill.

[hangontight]

14 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

My son actually enjoys the time they get to talk and I think part of it is how he gets to share with me what he learned afterwards and it gives him an outlet other than mom and dad.  I originally had set up this whole thing with this performance coach because I could see him getting frustrated and then realized that I was not the person he should be talking to about it.  I'm dad and of course I could never understand.  Plus I think there need to be boundaries on my son's golf and our relationship.  My son really liked reading his coaches book and gets to hear cool stories about Collin winning the PGA Championship and stuff like that.  For me, I like having his coach around since I know he has developed a junior golfer from the bottom up utilizing a plan put together by him, the player and the family.  Plus he's like five minutes away so it's easy to get with him.

 

To address the 'taking the fun out of the game' piece... I'll just say that at some point in your junior golfers time playing they will be accomplished enough that playing well is fun and playing crappy isn't fun.  The whole getting ice cream and french fries after nine holes to keep it fun kind of just doesn't do it anymore.  The thing I've seen though is that some kids have the fire and some don't.  The ones that don't just want to get french fries and ice cream after the round.

Very well said @leezer99, and good thread.  My son is 10...so kind of at what seems the critical transition you mentioned above.  The fun is definitely in playing well for him and what drives him...not the ice cream anymore.  I really like the review process you use, but my boy would SHUT OFF if I tried that, haha.  I'me saving it though because he will eventually get there, but for now we use a  simple "Good -Better - How" review that takes two minutes on the way home, or usually a day or two after if he doesn't play so well...(or Like @kekoa said, if really really bad we wont ever talk about it...consider it an anomaly and gone from memory hopefully!).   I track his stats and tendencies in more detail than he realizes to help guide practice & what to work on, which he buys into and follows......but I know that too much "review time" takes away some fun for him.    He started with a swing coach recently.    I drop him off and dont grill him (too much) when I pick him up.  Of course, I get a briefing from the coach later so I can help guide him between lessons..but I can tell he is owning his game much better.

 

You and @heavy_hitter  , when you say Performance coach are you talking about their swing coach, fitness, someone else?

[heavy_hitter]

14 minutes ago, hangontight said:

Very well said @leezer99, and good thread.  My son is 10...so kind of at what seems the critical transition you mentioned above.  The fun is definitely in playing well for him and what drives him...not the ice cream anymore.  I really like the review process you use, but my boy would SHUT OFF if I tried that, haha.  I'me saving it though because he will eventually get there, but for now we use a  simple "Good -Better - How" review that takes two minutes on the way home, or usually a day or two after if he doesn't play so well...(or Like @kekoa said, if really really bad we wont ever talk about it...consider it an anomaly and gone from memory hopefully!).   I track his stats and tendencies in more detail than he realizes to help guide practice & what to work on, which he buys into and follows......but I know that too much "review time" takes away some fun for him.    He started with a swing coach recently.    I drop him off and dont grill him (too much) when I pick him up.  Of course, I get a briefing from the coach later so I can help guide him between lessons..but I can tell he is owning his game much better.

 

You and @heavy_hitter  , when you say Performance coach are you talking about their swing coach, fitness, someone else?

Mental Coach, Sports Psychologist.  

[Tannerbug33]

My son has always been an emotional player. i have talked to him about a sports Psychologist and he has always been negative about the ideal. now as he approaches 13 he knows his game is good and he is seeing some of the ways he responds that does not help. Now he is open to reading books but still don't want to talk to someone. I'm not pushing the issue they are expensive and if hes not going to talk it would be a waste of money. but i see it in his picture as he opens up and gets more competitive and wants every edge he can get.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

@leezer99  I love some Matt and Collin.  "It's hard to compare golfers and what their future holds but take a look at Morikawa and Wolff.  One is a brash, long ball hitter that went to a top D1 school with one win (against Collin in a playoff).  The other is a process oriented, short knocker that went to a college outside the top 25 D1 schools, plays to his strengths and has three wins including a major.  Long term I think Collin stands out among the two players. "

 

He won it on the 72nd with an Eagle. 😉  My son is more of the Collin type.  Constant thinker and iron player.

[kcap]

How did you guys go about choosing Sports Psychologists/performance coach?   Do you have names to share, i assume this is virtual world most talks are over zoom, right?  or are you doing any on course training?  

We have been thinking about a mental coach for a while, I am not 100% sold on the idea but I clearly need to dig a little deeper.  thanks in advance..

[leezer99]

It was easy for us to pick Rick because he lives five minutes away and has had a pretty good track record helping develop a plan for junior golfers.