Iron Lofts are very different

[tiger1873]

 

I am shocked at how different clubs have very different lofts per set.  Recently went to a fitting and like everyone you grab a 7 iron and compare.  Some iron are  much stronger then other irons. 

 

I thought I seen a killer set since the 7 iron was going so far until I asked about the loft on it.  turns out the 7 iron was 28 degrees vs the other one that was 33 degrees.  That is like 2 or 3 clubs different.  Your not even hitting the same clubs at that point.

 

It truly makes it hard to compare clubs like this and don't compare clubs if 1 kid is using a 8 iron and yours is using a 7 since they actually could be using a 6 iron loft.

 

I used to think fittings were great but now I am not sure. Obviously hitting clubs and picking the correct shaft help but I came away from the last one unsure if we picked the correct irons.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

This has always been the case with club manufacturers and they do it to increase sales. 99 times out of 100 the set with stronger lofts will be considered "game improvement irons" marketed to the average to below average player. If "John Doe" can hit a 7 iron from Brand A as far as he hits a 6 iron from Brand B he is going to most likely want to buy the clubs from Brand A because it makes him feel better about himself and he can brag to his playing partners.

 

It's very easy to look up specific lofts on a set of clubs and almost all OEMs will list it under specs on their website. Although typically the type of player that is buying these irons isn't going to do that because they don't really care about lofts they just want to be able to hit the ball further.

[heavy_hitter]

Lofts mean absolutely nothing in sets of irons.  I disagree with everything @Abh159said.  I used to think the same thing until I started researching them and talked to several coaches and fitters.

 

With the  Technology in a GI or SGI iron the manufacturers HAVE to make the loft stronger.  A 7i in a Big Bertha iron is not only going to go further than a players iron, it is still going to go higher with a better decent angle than the players iron (until you get to a high enough swing speed that is).  If they left the the loft the same, the GI and SGI irons would actually go to high and begin to balloon.  It is science and technology, not the manufacturers trying to sell something.  There are all kinds of videos out their on the subject.  It is all about Science.

 

The way to compare the irons is to have your coach do the fitting on a FlightScope or Trackman to decide what is right for their game right now.  You just can't look at distance.  You have to look at spin, accuracy, decent angle, and other parameters.  

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/645472/golfers-pay-way-too-much-attention-to-iron-lofts-on-spec-podcast/

[tiger1873]

13 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

This has always been the case with club manufacturers and they do it to increase sales. 99 times out of 100 the set with stronger lofts will be considered "game improvement irons" marketed to the average to below average player. If "John Doe" can hit a 7 iron from Brand A as far as he hits a 6 iron from Brand B he is going to most likely want to buy the clubs from Brand A because it makes him feel better about himself and he can brag to his playing partners.

 

It's very easy to look up specific lofts on a set of clubs and almost all OEMs will list it under specs on their website. Although typically the type of player that is buying these irons isn't going to do that because they don't really care about lofts they just want to be able to hit the ball further.

 

 

I think everyone knows this to a point the issue I have is the fitters lately like to gloss over this fact.  It's not just game improvement anymore either.   Everything this year seems to have gone 1 -2 digress stronger. 

 

I guess what concerns me is in the past prior to the current mass fitters out there you grabbed a whole set of clubs and hit them.  Hitting a whole set it pretty easy to figure this out.

 

Go to club champion, tru spec or a variety of club fitters out there and you just hit a 7 iron to compare.  clubs with jacked lofts can give you a nice number.  Having a kid who plays tournaments that makes it easy to drop money on a club. 

 

Take out distance and spin rates because of loft and it makes it sort of guess in what works.  We went with constancy and shot shape. Then figured out if the lofts made sense based on current irons.

[jj9000]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

It truly makes it hard to compare clubs like this and don't compare clubs if 1 kid is using a 8 iron and yours is using a 7 since they actually could be using a 6 iron loft.

 

Like Clockwork.

 

Almost as if there's been zero self reflection

 

 

[darter79]

Yeah irons lofts are not apples to apples anymore. No way around that if you are comparing irons you can't look at 7 iron from Ping that say is a G line vs t100 from Titleist. Lofts wont match and the Ping will go further. But fittings are important because they can guide you into the right club for stopping the ball faster. Distance isn't always better. If you are comparing same style of irons lofts will be similar but with todays irons tech they designed to launch the ball very high so they have to lower loft in order to get the correct flight. Even players irons such as the t200 line are stronger. Just the way it is. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, darter79 said:

Yeah irons lofts are not apples to apples anymore. No way around that if you are comparing irons you can't look at 7 iron from Ping that say is a G line vs t100 from Titleist. Lofts wont match and the Ping will go further. But fittings are important because they can guide you into the right club for stopping the ball faster. Distance isn't always better. If you are comparing same style of irons lofts will be similar but with todays irons tech they designed to launch the ball very high so they have to lower loft in order to get the correct flight. Even players irons such as the t200 line are stronger. Just the way it is. 

 

Not only this, but the lofts inside a single manufacturer will all be different from SGI, GI, Players, Blades.  It is dependent on the technology in each club.

[BloctonGolf11]

Short moral to this...

 

Do a fitting or test and only two things matter: ball flight/distances and getting your gapping rights. Lofts are tricky now and the only thing that matters is having the right ball flights/distances on the clubs and not have a massive gap issue somewhere. You solve this with correct wedges and hybrids/fairway woods. Not that complicated. 

[tiger1873]

52 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Not only this, but the lofts inside a single manufacturer will all be different from SGI, GI, Players, Blades.  It is dependent on the technology in each club.

 

A lot manufactures like to make up stories hence jacked up lofts.  If your playing blades or MB irons your playing with old tech. There are reasons to play these irons but the reality is the only reason you see PGA players is they are used to playing this tech.

 

some the foams the are putting into irons really are game changers.  There been a huge advancement in the last couple of years but it isn't distance. 

 

[BloctonGolf11]

4 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

A lot manufactures like to make up stories hence jacked up lofts.  If your playing blades or MB irons your playing with old tech. There are reasons to play these irons but the reality is the only reason you see PGA players is they are used to playing this tech.

 

some the foams the are putting into irons really are game changers.  There been a huge advancement in the last couple of years but it isn't distance. 

 

Wrong, the reason they play those irons is they need the extreme workability that those clubs give you that a GI or SGI simply can't and they have the skill to manipulate the ball with those clubs. 

[heavy_hitter]

5 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

A lot manufactures like to make up stories hence jacked up lofts.  If your playing blades or MB irons your playing with old tech. There are reasons to play these irons but the reality is the only reason you see PGA players is they are used to playing this tech.

 

some the foams the are putting into irons really are game changers.  There been a huge advancement in the last couple of years but it isn't distance. 

 

This entire statement is a myth in 2021 and has been for several years.  30 years ago before GI and SGI, yes, this is true.  Today it is not.

[Krt22]

 

4 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I am shocked at how different clubs have very different lofts per set.  Recently went to a fitting and like everyone you grab a 7 iron and compare.  Some iron are  much stronger then other irons. 

 

I thought I seen a killer set since the 7 iron was going so far until I asked about the loft on it.  turns out the 7 iron was 28 degrees vs the other one that was 33 degrees.  That is like 2 or 3 clubs different.  Your not even hitting the same clubs at that point.

 

It truly makes it hard to compare clubs like this and don't compare clubs if 1 kid is using a 8 iron and yours is using a 7 since they actually could be using a 6 iron loft.

 

I used to think fittings were great but now I am not sure. Obviously hitting clubs and picking the correct shaft help but I came away from the last one unsure if we picked the correct irons.  

28 vs 33 is not 2 clubs of difference for a mid iron, let alone 3. 

 

Most amateurs are too steep add/or loft at impact, so playing less static loft can get them closer to ideal launch and spin windows. At the end of the day its all about launch conditions that result in proper gapping and land angle, not how far the club labeled 7 goes. Different golfers with different skill and speed are going to benefit most from clubs suited to their game. Don't worry about the static lofts, instead worry about what works best for you, because the ball and score card do not care.

[heavy_hitter]

34 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

 

28 vs 33 is not 2 clubs of difference for a mid iron, let alone 3. 

 

Most amateurs are too steep add/or loft at impact, so playing less static loft can get them closer to ideal launch and spin windows. At the end of the day its all about launch conditions that result in proper gapping and land angle, not how far the club labeled 7 goes. Different golfers with different skill and speed are going to benefit most from clubs suited to their game. Don't worry about the static lofts, instead worry about what works best for you, because the ball and score card do not care.

THIS   ^^^^^^

[mrshinsa]

The jacked-up loft is pretty well known issue.  

https://www.spargogolf.com/blogs/blog/comparing-major-oem-iron-set-specifications-lets-get-technical

 

Our my son's previous Ping set, I didn't like the gapping between the GW and the SW, so I actually ordered the set power specced(bent even stronger), and put another club between the two.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by mrshinsa

[heavy_hitter]

55 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

The jacked-up loft is pretty well known issue.  

https://www.spargogolf.com/blogs/blog/comparing-major-oem-iron-set-specifications-lets-get-technical

 

Our my son's previous Ping set, I didn't like the gapping between the GW and his SW, so I actually ordered the set power specced(bent even stronger), and put another club between the two.  

 

Jacked up lofts in players irons are only issues if you don't get fit by a reputable fitter.  Distance isn't the only thing to look at.  If someone sells you a club because you hit it longer, they are just being a salesman.  If you buy it because you hit it longer, you are a dumb $%$.  You have to look at spin, apex, decent numbers etc.  as well as marry it to the right shaft.

 

You do realize that when your clubs come in you should always take them somewhere to have the lofts/lies checked?   My kid got his custom Callaway Irons and Wedges in and not one club had the custom lie correct and all Spec Lofts were wrong.  Have ordered Custom Clubs from Wilson in the past and same thing.  Should always take them to get checked.  We go about every 4 months to make sure none of them have moved.  Tip the guy 10 bucks and are out of the shop in 15 minutes.

Edited January 25, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[mrshinsa]

4 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Jacked up lofts in players irons are only issues if you don't get fit by a reputable fitter.  Distance isn't the only thing to look at.  If someone sells you a club because you hit it longer, they are just being a salesman.  If you buy it because you hit it longer, you are a dumb $%$.  You have to look at spin, apex, decent numbers etc.  as well as marry it to the right shaft.

 

You do realize that when your clubs come in you should always take them somewhere to have the lofts/lies checked?   My kid got his custom Callaway Irons and Wedges in and not one club had the custom lie correct and all Spec Lofts were wrong.  Have ordered Custom Clubs from Wilson in the past and same thing.  Should always take them to get checked.  We go about every 4 months to make sure none of them have moved.  Tip the guy 10 bucks and are out of the shop in 15 minutes.

 

I'm a bit confused.  I never mentioned anything about distance, only lofts.  My son was 11 at the time and this was his first adult clubs.  Talking to other parents, I knew there was going to be some gapping issues at the lower end due to strong lofts

[leezer99]

Game improvement irons are for kids that have no imagination or shot making ability. They’ll never develop the hands to control the face or the ball since the club does it for them. Pretty much just setting them up for future failure. 

[heavy_hitter]

12 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Game improvement irons are for kids that have no imagination or shot making ability. They’ll never develop the hands to control the face or the ball since the club does it for them. Pretty much just setting them up for future failure. 

We can agree to disagree here.  I don’t believe this in the slightest.  When a kid has to transition from 5700 yds to 6500 yds and isn’t ready for that distance, GI gives a kid the chance to compete.  As well, you are still able to move them if left and right...  ;)

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, mrshinsa said:

 

I'm a bit confused.  I never mentioned anything about distance, only lofts.  My son was 11 at the time and this was his first adult clubs.  Talking to other parents, I knew there was going to be some gapping issues at the lower end due to strong lofts

Did you not post a link about Jacked up lofts?  Did that link not provide information on why companies used to jack up lofts?

 

Then you talked about gappings not working for your kid?  That is the loft of the club and you have to get them adjusted to make the gaps work.

Edited January 26, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

11 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

We can agree to disagree here.  I don’t believe this in the slightest.  When a kid has to transition from 5700 yds to 6500 yds and isn’t ready for that distance, GI gives a kid the chance to compete.  As well, you are still able to move them if left and right... 😉

 

The type of club really depends on the kid your talking about here and where they are in development.  Some kids will get frustrated if they can not get the club in the air and some kids will work harder if it doesn't. 

 

The whole debate if a kid should hit blades or SGI irons is stupid and not very productive. Your kid is going to hit what makes sense for them.   I personally don't like SGI because they feel like shovels. Some people though need a shovel to play since it gives them confidence.  play what works.

 

The reason I even brought up the loft issue is at a recent fitting we had the fitter kept mentioning how far certain clubs went.  Once I asked about the loft it didn't seem like such a good idea.  I also noticed lofts are getting stronger on a lot new irons and seen a few articles here on GOLFWRX about it.

 

Because of this recent fitting and how many custom fitters opened up shop. I am not so sure fitters are so neutral like they claim to be.  Don't get me wrong they are helpful but I was hoping some people on here would had good advice on where to get a good fitting.  For those of you in California  have you been able to go get fitted at taylormade or Callaway?  I would travel for a fitting if it made sense.  My fear is they really wouldn't much different then a regular fitting. 

 

I also kind of come to the conclusion that any major golf club equipment maker will have something that works for anyone.  The only reason we tend like one or the other is our own bias.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

The type of club really depends on the kid your talking about here and where they are in development.  Some kids will get frustrated if they can not get the club in the air and some kids will work harder if it doesn't. 

 

The whole debate if a kid should hit blades or SGI irons is stupid and not very productive. Your kid is going to hit what makes sense for them.   I personally don't like SGI because they feel like shovels. Some people though need a shovel to play since it gives them confidence.  play what works.

 

The reason I even brought up the loft issue is at a recent fitting we had the fitter kept mentioning how far certain clubs went.  Once I asked about the loft it didn't seem like such a good idea.  I also noticed lofts are getting stronger on a lot new irons and seen a few articles here on GOLFWRX about it.

 

Because of this recent fitting and how many custom fitters opened up shop. I am not so sure fitters are so neutral like they claim to be.  Don't get me wrong they are helpful but I was hoping some people on here would had good advice on where to get a good fitting.  For those of you in California  have you been able to go get fitted at taylormade or Callaway?  I would travel for a fitting if it made sense.  My fear is they really wouldn't much different then a regular fitting. 

 

I also kind of come to the conclusion that any major golf club equipment maker will have something that works for anyone.  The only reason we tend like one or the other is our own bias.

 

 

 

 

Lofts are just a number and you have to look at it that way.  You have to purchase the club that the kid can use and that makes sense.  If a 7i in a SGI gets better numbers (combined apex, spin, decent, distance) than a 7i in a PI then you need to go with the SGI.  Have to put pride away to give the best chance at being successful.  Otherwise, you are just hurting the kid.

 

Just because you use a SGI or GI doesn't mean you Can't hit a players iron.

Edited January 26, 2021 by heavy_hitter