Playing the Correct Tees?

[Hogan9]

I keep reading and hearing about the "Play It Forward" campaign. I've seen the charts and they all are based on driver distance. I'm 71 and while I'm not very long off the tee anymore, I rarely miss the fairway. Also, my short game and putting is very good. Some of the guys in my group drive the ball thirty or forty yards past me. However, we often walk off the green with the same score. Everything I read says golf should be fun. Frankly, it's more fun for me to post a low score than to tell everyone I played a nine iron into our 425 yard number one handicap hole. There is no question that distance is king today. Dustin Johnson has proved that, but isn't it interesting that he has the same number of majors as the other Johnson even though DJ probably out drives Zack by forty yards.  Granted DJ will probably win more majors. I think it's because he is a much better putter now than a few years ago. 

Anyway,  maybe it's ego or just not wanting to face Father Time, but once I stop having fun playing our 6250 yard tees, I will move up. 

[bluehose]

I agree-I think you should play the tees that best fit your game.  If you're having too much fun or making too many birdies, you can always move back.  And at the end of the day, who cares?  Unless you are scoring for handicap purposes, it should be what makes it fun.  

[scomac2002]

I'd be willing to bet that DJ outdrives Zack Johnson by closer to 80 yards rather than 40.  But, you are right that they have the same number of majors.  I'm not too sure how many more that DJ will win considering the parity that we see now in the game, but I would agree that it will be more about converting around the green that determines his fate.

 

For myself in the world of mere mortals, a 200 yard drive is a good poke for me.  I don't hit it far enough to get too far out of line.  A bad drive is more about being short more so than being wild.  With that in mind, the days of playing even a 6000 yard course are well in the rearview mirror.  There's not a lot of fun in hitting driver 3w, 3W on a par 5 and still being short.  If there isn't reasonable expectation to make greens in regulation then I'm playing too long a set of tees.  That would amount to about 5500-5700 as a kind of upper limit at this stage of my game if I want a reasonable shot at net even.

[Abh159]

I think the "Play It Forward" campaign is geared more towards people just starting to pick up the game. Moving up a set or two of tees for them will help them play faster, score lower, and get more enjoyment out of a round therefore incentivizing them to keep playing. 

 

Regardless of skill level, if you are an experienced golfer you should have a good idea as to what tees you need to be playing from. Just like you shouldn't be hitting fairway woods into par 4s you also shouldn't have a wedge in your hand on almost every one either. If you find yourself consistently in either of those scenarios it's probably a good idea to reevaluate your choice of tees. 

[mumbles236]

If I'm playing a course I've never been to before I use the GHIN app to help me decide what tees to play instead of basing it purely off distance. You can use the course handicap calculator to see what you would be from each set of tees and then play the one that is closest to your normal handicap index. I'll be honest if my index is in between 2 different sets of tees I usually play the shorter one cause its more fun for me to go into the round thinking I've got a good chance to put up a low number.

[cgasucks]

For me to choose the appropriate tees for me, I look at the scorecard of the course in question and look at all the yardages on Par 3s and play the longest tees on those holes that I can comfortably play and extrapolate those same set of tees to the other holes.

 

I prefer to play par 3s that are under 200 yards.

Edited January 25, 2021 by cgasucks

[GLF4EVR]

A member of the group I have played with for years has always been a short knocker.  Think he will hit 74 this year.  Several years ago it took us over a full season to get him to play from the senior tees.  Seems like what we finally got thru to him on just the enjoyment of the game.  If you are not really enjoying the game, move up in tees.  Especially if you are struggling with distance.

[Pepperturbo]

I agree with the OP.  Fun is a low score as well as taking the $$$. lol

 

Thankfully I haven't been introduced to Father-time's frame of mind.  This 70yr old still thinks he's 35-40, go figure.  Yep, I am certain ego is in play; as it still pushes me to find my best.

 

Even though I am in decent shape, playing longer yardages is, in part, due to technology.  PS: Thank You, @Fujikura, for Ventus Velocore.

[third-times-a-charm]

If you frequently have to hit more than a 7 iron into a green for a GIR on a par 4, you're playing the wrong tees.

 

Unfortunately for me, my club is a PGA stop, so many guests feel the need to get the 'championship experience' when playing a round and I frequently see people using the tips when they shouldn't.

[Springsteennut]

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

If you frequently have to hit more than a 7 iron into a green for a GIR on a par 4, you're playing the wrong tees.

 

Unfortunately for me, my club is a PGA stop, so many guests feel the need to get the 'championship experience' when playing a round and I frequently see people using the tips when they shouldn't.

That’s pretty much the way I do it. If pros are hitting 7 irons or less on most par 4s why shouldn’t the rest of us play tees where we do the same. 

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Unfortunately for me, my club is a PGA stop, so many guests feel the need to get the 'championship experience' when playing a round and I frequently see people using the tips when they shouldn't.

 

I run into the same issue at my club. Although I will admit it's funny to watch people's reaction when they realize they've made a huge mistake. It usually happens once they find out they can't even make it to the fairway from the tee box or they are hitting driver into a par 3. 

[vbb]

I tend to play with two different groups, and adjust the tees i play from according to which of the two groups I'm with. Looking at my ghin scores from the past year, my scoring average is 1.4 shots better from the shorter tees, but my average differential is better from the longer tees. There's 500yds of distance between the two sets of tees and obviously a few different looks from certain tee boxes. My lowest round is identical from each tee.

 

I've seen all sorts of different formulas for how to figure out which tees you should be playing, but my rule is simple. If you can't hope to at least get near the 150yd marker with a decently hit tee shot on the majority of par 4s, you should move up. That's kind of the measuring stick. If you smash a drive and still have 180 left, you're too far back. On the flip side, if you can't hit driver on the majority of par 4s because it'll be too much club, you're too far forward.

[mark174ace]

If you are a consistent ball striker you can actually play from longer tees than what is based on solely your driving distance. A pet peeve of mine is when a course has one of those signs by the first hole telling you what tees you play solely based on the length of your drives or your handicap. Complete nonsense.

 

I am a 3-4 handicap and only hit my drives 220 maybe 230 occasionally and I have seen signs on courses telling me I should play from only 6000  or all the way back at 6800. Typically I max out at around 6500 depending on how much length is in the par 4's.

 

Swallow your pride, use good judgement, and most importantly have fun!!

[MtlJeff]

The play-it-forward thing never seemed relevant to me here considering the golf i see. I don't know if this is common in the US or other parts of Canada, but here people overwhelmingly seem to want to play the forward tees

 

At my home club (which has a lot of good players--most years 50~ under 5.0 index) i would still bet that 90% of the rounds played by men are from the one-ups which play 6300yds, versus the tips which are 6700. And this is at a good club

 

At public courses, especially ones that tip out at 6700+, i'd bet 95% of the rounds easily are of the 1-up or 2-up tees

[Hawkeye77]

Considering it started in 2011 and hasn't really been talked about in a serious way for years, where is all this stuff to read about "Play It Forward"?

 

Been dead for some time, IMO.  

 

I rarely see people dying to play from the tips, most play a box up at least, and as for slow play, slow players are slow from the back tees and they are slow from any up tees.  

 

There are no "correct" tees, except whatever tees you enjoy playing from and sounds like OP has some tees he enjoys and well done!

[Hogan9]

Many great replies to my topic. Hawkeye77 is probably right. I didn't realize "Play It Forward" was ten years old. Time flies when you're having fun, I guess.  Like everything else in golf, whatever works best for the player is what they should do. I guess my point was that golf skill should not be totally based on distance. As stated earlier, I beat guys that  consistently out drive me almost every time I play.  That being said, if I ever lose my putting stroke (God forbid) I'll have to take up archery. 

[goaliedad30]

Play where you have the most fun, as long as you can keep up the pace of play. If that's the back tees, great! If that's the forward tees, great! If that's somewhere in between, great! If that's tee it up at the 150 marker, or drop a ball on the putting green just to putt, so you can be out with your golf buddies, great!

 

Just keep the pace moving, and have a great time!!

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, Hogan9 said:

Many great replies to my topic. Hawkeye77 is probably right. I didn't realize "Play It Forward" was ten years old. Time flies when you're having fun, I guess.  Like everything else in golf, whatever works best for the player is what they should do. I guess my point was that golf skill should not be totally based on distance. As stated earlier, I beat guys that  consistently out drive me almost every time I play.  That being said, if I ever lose my putting stroke (God forbid) I'll have to take up archery. 

Was just pointing out that I just don't seem to hear much about it, not criticizing you, but rather USGA, etc.  I know there's a little blip about it I think you can still find on the website, but it seemed to just kind of die and I thought it was a worthy effort whether aimed at newbies or folks that just weren't thinking about it.  Keep up and I don't care what tees someone plays.

 

Our kids learned from the hole backwards and the 100, 150 200 yard markers were good "tee boxes" until they had the length and skill to play the regular boxes and weren't needing driver on par 3s, etc.  Worked pretty well. Never understood taking a little kid out who was learning the game and just watching them slog their way to a hole, and taking 10 strokes to do it.  Didn't look like fun, didn't seem to promote getting how the game is played, IMO.  But some kids enjoy that so they should do it that way.  

[scomac2002]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Our kids learned from the hole backwards and the 100, 150 200 yard markers were good "tee boxes" until they had the length and skill to play the regular boxes and weren't needing driver on par 3s, etc.  Worked pretty well. Never understood taking a little kid out who was learning the game and just watching them slog their way to a hole, and taking 10 strokes to do it.  Didn't look like fun, didn't seem to promote getting how the game is played, IMO.  But some kids enjoy that so they should do it that way.  

 

This is a great idea.  I'm surprised more places don't promote such things.

 

Every year at the course I work/play at they have a week with free golf for juniors when accompanied by a paying adult.  It's a great way to promote the game and our course is short enough to make it workable for most.  The problem comes when you've got a well intended Dad who is bent on giving lessons as the kid slogs his way around the course and blocking up flow about as effectively as a beaver dam.  If you make suggestions that they pick up at double par or have the child tee off from 150 the Dad often will get quite defensive and these interactions never go particularly well.   After having to marshal one of these sorts of situations it's rare for the family to return to the course, which is always unfortunate.

[Gsea]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Our kids learned from the hole backwards and the 100, 150 200 yard markers were good "tee boxes" until they had the length and skill to play the regular boxes and weren't needing driver on par 3s, etc.  Worked pretty well. Never understood taking a little kid out who was learning the game and just watching them slog their way to a hole, and taking 10 strokes to do it.  Didn't look like fun, didn't seem to promote getting how the game is played, IMO.  But some kids enjoy that so they should do it that way.  

100%. Today everyone is too ego driven. As a starter I see all kinds of kids with parents who don't have a clue and should be doing this.

[scomac2002]

Further to the notion of teeing it up from 150 if necessary, I recall one of the better players in my senior men's league talking about working at Glen Abbey -- a regular stop for the Canadian Open -- and his experiences marshaling there.

 

They did a lot of corporate events which for most Canadians would have made this a bucket list opportunity to play a PGA tour stop.  The problem with this sort of crowd was that often the typical participants weren't what one would consider regular weekly players.  You would get a lot of the once or twice a year types with rental or borrowed clubs.  Even playing from member tees this could rapidly devolve into an 8 hour round if left to their own devices.

 

Whenever staff would run into the inevitable bottleneck group they were instructed to tell them to play from the 150 yard marker for the rest of the round.  Any complaints were met with a stark; this is course policy!  People didn't like it, but it worked.

[heavy_hitter]

5i times 36 is the distance you should should feel comfortable playing.

 

Examples

5i is 200 yds X 36 = 7200 yd course

5i is 155 yds X 36 = 5580 yd course

 

I live on a private course in Florida and often watch members playing.  90% of the members are playing from the wrong set of tees.  

Edited January 27, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[Hawkeye77]

33 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

6i times 36 is the distance you should should feel comfortable playing.

 

Examples

6i is 200 yds X 36 = 7200 yd course

6i is 155 yds X 36 = 5580 yd course

 

I live on a private course in Florida and often watch members playing.  90% of the members are playing from the wrong set of tees.  

That's interesting, I plugged in mine and I thought the answer was in the reasonable range for tees I'd select.  For some "wrxers", I'm not sure an 8000 yard course would work!

 

I go to a new course and I look at the par 3s as a guide for what tees I think I'll enjoy that day.  

 

I do like the hybrid course options some set up with a mix of a couple different boxes, but that's very course dependent.  Was introduced to that for the first time playing with a wrxer and his gang a few years ago and enjoyed that very much and most of the clubs got a reasonable workout (and often, lol).

 

Edit:  5i works just fine, also.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[leezer99]

22 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

6i times 36 is the distance you should should feel comfortable playing.

 

Examples

6i is 200 yds X 36 = 7200 yd course

6i is 155 yds X 36 = 5580 yd course

 

I live on a private course in Florida and often watch members playing.  90% of the members are playing from the wrong set of tees.  

Matt Walter says it should be 5 iron distance. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CKFh66wgY5f/?igshid=1mh3jxntqr7ss

Edited January 27, 2021 by leezer99

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Matt Walter says it should be 5 iron distance. 

Brain Fart....  I heard it from Paulson and Paulson.  Yes it is 5i.

 

It doesn't help playing on WRX while talking business on the phone and writing up an order at the same time.

Edited January 27, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[Hawkeye77]

57 minutes ago, scomac2002 said:

 

This is a great idea.  I'm surprised more places don't promote such things.

 

Every year at the course I work/play at they have a week with free golf for juniors when accompanied by a paying adult.  It's a great way to promote the game and our course is short enough to make it workable for most.  The problem comes when you've got a well intended Dad who is bent on giving lessons as the kid slogs his way around the course and blocking up flow about as effectively as a beaver dam.  If you make suggestions that they pick up at double par or have the child tee off from 150 the Dad often will get quite defensive and these interactions never go particularly well.   After having to marshal one of these sorts of situations it's rare for the family to return to the course, which is always unfortunate.

 

I remember one of the owners relating a similar situation a few years ago here.  Grandpa had his grandson out, but the two of them had groups completely slowed down and the course backed up at a busy time.  Kid didn't really know how to hit a golf ball, but started from the one ups with Grandpa (who couldn't play well either and really should have been off the two up blocks). There were more than a couple visits out to encourage him to let people play through but he got tired of it and just decided everyone could wait. Grandpa finally said, "Get out of here, I'm making memories" and got pretty belligerent and thought he'd punish the course by quitting after 9 holes (they happily refunded him the difference from the two 18 hole rates he'd paid) and never returning.  

 

I don't envy anyone on any golf course trying to manage delicately all the different abilities and personalities.  Way back we use to have a "marshal" - a frail and shy kind of older gentleman who traded being "marshal" for free golf and he usually parked somewhere and watched or took a nap, no biggie.  We were a threesome, my dad, my oldest daughter (who was 14 and legitimately playing from the "men's" tees) and me and we were being held up for a few holes by one guy playing by himself, playing one ball, treating every shot like he was in the middle of a six hour Tour round.  It was unreal.  I finally gave a call and the marshal, who we all knew, came by, and I asked if he'd drive up and ask the guy to please pull over after he finished the short par 3 we were still waiting on, and we'd play quick and move on by.  Well, the poor marshal went up, got an earful, came back and just looked at us, shrugged his shoulders and said, "__________ that guy is mean, I don't think he's going to let you through" and drove off! Oh well, it was better than having any kind of confrontation and provided us with some laughs.

[goaliedad30]

I've used the 5i x 36 as a rule of thumb before. My 5h is 180-185, which translates to 6,480 - 6,660 using that formula. The blue tees at my home club (one up from the back, and what I prefer to play) are 6,556. Go figure!

 

The interesting part for me is that when I play the white tees (6,121), there are a LOT of holes where I have to lay up on either the tee shot or the second shot on a par 5, given the design of the golf course uses a combination of barrancas, hills and bunkering to create "forced" landing zones.

 

1 - 3w max off tee due to level vs. downhill landing area

2 - 3w to stay short of a FW bunker that pinches the fairway to about 12 yards wide

5 - 5w to stay short  of a barranca

6 - par 5, 5w off tee to stay short of a barranca; reachable in two from there only if the tee shot runs to a square about 15 yards x 15 yards close to the barranca (uphill 2nd)

8 - par 5, tee shot doesn't matter; lay up to 100 yards on 2nd with anything from 5w to 6 iron. Massive uphill hole, not really reachable in two for me from any  tee.

9 - 3w off tee to stay between bunkers left and water/penalty area right. Bunkers not carryable.

10 - 3w off tee to stay away from a severe downslope

11 - reachable par 5 with big drive, otherwise lay up to 80 yards (usually with a 6 or 7i)

14 - 3w max off tee to stay short of a penalty area

18 - 3w max off tee to stay off a severe downslope, and keep a penalty area out of play

 

From the blue (or gold, backs) tees, these are almost all driver off the tee.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by goaliedad30

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

I've used the 5i x 36 as a rule of thumb before. My 5h is 180-185, which translates to 6,480 - 6,660 using that formula. The blue tees at my home club (one up from the back, and what I prefer to play) are 6,556. Go figure!

 

The interesting part for me is that when I play the white tees (6,121), there are a LOT of holes where I have to lay up on either the tee shot or the second shot on a par 5, given the design of the golf course uses a combination of barrancas, hills and bunkering to create "forced" landing zones.

 

1 - 3w max off tee due to level vs. downhill landing area

2 - 3w to stay short of a FW bunker that pinches the fairway to about 12 yards wide

5 - 5w to stay short  of a barranca

6 - par 5, 5w off tee to stay short of a barranca; reachable in two from there only if the tee shot runs to a square about 15 yards x 15 yards close to the barranca (uphill 2nd)

8 - par 5, tee shot doesn't matter; lay up to 100 yards on 2nd with anything from 5w to 6 iron. Massive uphill hole, not really reachable in two for me from any  tee.

9 - 3w off tee to stay between bunkers left and water/penalty area right. Bunkers not carryable.

10 - 3w off tee to stay away from a server downslope

11 - reachable par 5 with big drive, otherwise lay up to 80 yards (usually with a 6 or 7i)

14 - 3w max off tee to stay short of a penalty area

18 - 3w max off tee to stay off a severe downslope, and keep a penalty area out of play

 

From the blue (or gold, backs) tees, these are almost all driver off the tee.

 

 

I understand exactly what you are talking about.  I don't play, used to, but my teenage son does.  I notice exactly what you are talking about.  When he plays from our back tees, 6800 yds and change, it is easier for him to play because he avoids a lot of the danger (fairway bunker, water, etc.).  As he moves up and plays different tees it becomes more course management and pulling different clubs to avoid danger.  

[Pepperturbo]

@MtlJeff - Having done a lot of business in CA, no doubt in my mind, it's a cultural difference thing. 

[blangdale]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:53 AM, cgasucks said:

For me to choose the appropriate tees for me, I look at the scorecard of the course in question and look at all the yardages on Par 3s and play the longest tees on those holes that I can comfortably play and extrapolate those same set of tees to the other holes.

 

I prefer to play par 3s that are under 200 yards.

I do the same thing. It’s no fun trying to hit a 3-wood into a par three. Plus, in terms of pace of play, the par 3s can be a bottleneck, so using this rule keeps things moving, too.