Question on iron fitting results

[WVheel1]

Went for an iron fitting on Friday. Tried all the irons he had in stock that I felt I could remotely feel comfortable playing and every club/shaft combination we tried ended up with a launch that was unacceptable. Best results came from TM p770, with prioject x LZ stiff. Best I could get was apex around 88', with the 7 iron. Fitter was  looking for something higher with around 95' being his minimum, we couldn't get there. He's asked me to come back in a week or ten days when he gets in the new Callay Apex's and the new Sirixon Z5's and Z7's. My question is does anyone think these clubs will make a significant difference given the results so far? I am notorious for how steeply I come into the ball and perhaps that is the issue but based on Friday not sure where to look! Any input would be greatly appreciated! If it matters swing speed was consistently 83-85 mph.

[Stuart_G]

54 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

Went for an iron fitting on Friday. Tried all the irons he had in stock that I felt I could remotely feel comfortable playing and every club/shaft combination we tried ended up with a launch that was unacceptable. Best results came from TM p770, with prioject x LZ stiff. Best I could get was apex around 88', with the 7 iron. Fitter was  looking for something higher with around 95' being his minimum, we couldn't get there. He's asked me to come back in a week or ten days when he gets in the new Callay Apex's and the new Sirixon Z5's and Z7's. My question is does anyone think these clubs will make a significant difference given the results so far? I am notorious for how steeply I come into the ball and perhaps that is the issue but based on Friday not sure where to look! Any input would be greatly appreciated! If it matters swing speed was consistently 83-85 mph.

 

Fitting is NOT about a quest for some idealized set of numbers - especially the tour averages TM put out a long time ago.   Some fitters will get overly fixated on some of those numbers and not pay attention to what they really should be.  So forget those numbers and any comparisons made to those numbers. Fitting is all about finding the best equipment options and results (whatever they might be) for YOUR swing.   The majority of the fitting parameters (grip size, playing length, shaft weight, shaft stiffness profile, and swing weight) really should be more about consistency and dispersion.  Once you've got those more important specs dialed in, then you can start looking at launch and spin by trying different heads and/or tweaking the loft.   

 

Also keep in mind that equipment can only do so much to correct or compensate for what are essentially swing issues.   Sometimes they can help a little but be careful about unrealistic expectations.

 

That being said - in order to answer any more specific of a question we'd need a lot more info.

 

What were the numbers and how did they compare to the numbers with your current set of irons?

 

Fitting numbers are only valid as a relative value - what does or can a new club or configuration give you over what you already have?   So a fitting w/o bringing your current clubs and to compare the numbers to is a poor approach to fitting.

 

Keep in mind that hitting off of mats can alter the numbers quite a bit compared to hitting off of turf.   Generally the spin can drop quite a bit and launch angle increase.  The lower spin readings will likely also generate a lower apex.     This is probably more common with steeper swings - although the exact cause hasn't really been determined with any certainty so hard to say how much.   That's also an important reason to always bring your current clubs.  Each mat can be different - so numbers from a different type of mat or hitting area don't always translate to the environment you're doing the fitting in.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Stuart_G

[WVheel1]

I have always been a low spin player. I always considered myself a "high" ball hitter but the numbers during the session didn't reflect that. I was hitting the P770's well with an avg. apex around 85-87. Very difficult for me to conceptualize that indoors but fitter felt I needed more height to compensate for lack of spin generated. At any rate I tried Cobras, Mizuno 921 jpx's, PXG's and Ping. Didn't like the Cobra's and the Mizuno's, while I like the 921 forged, I didn't like how they performed. I can't begin to tell you what/how many shafts we tried. Where we ended was with the P770's performing best but he didn't think the gain against my current irons to justify a switch. Wants to try the new Sirixon's and Cally's  when he gets them in. Just a little discouraged, I wanted a new set that would be my "last" set at my age. After these I was gonna be one of the old guys with 13 woods/hybrids! Like that will ever happen!!! Currently gaming TM RSI1's with index at 5 and I am 67. Thanks for your thoughts.

[CokeZero]

Real question is who did the fitting? Was it someone like TXG Ian or some dude at GolfTEC?

[Golfrnut]

In an effort to simplify, he might have been using apex as a factor, but angle of decent (AoD) would be more of a key factor in the process.  You can launch low, you can launch high, but it all depends on whether you have the ball speed and the spin rates to match up properly.  

[WVheel1]

This guy is an independent fitter and has a good reputation around here. He worked hard and near the end actually said that if he couldn't do better than he was seeing he couldn't in good conscience sell me something that wasn't an improvement on what I have.  I don't have the numbers but AoD wasn't horrible but again I have a hard time quantifying that indoors. My recollection was that the AoD w/7 was around 45 deg's. I don't know how that relates but he didn't think that was appropriate. Just wondering if the Srixon zx 5/7 would perform better. As you can tell from my info, club fitting isn't my cup of tea.

[LeoLeo99]

If you're a high ball hitter but hitting it low in your fitting, it wasn't a good day for you to get fit.  You didn't have your normal swing.  

[Golfrnut]

19 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

This guy is an independent fitter and has a good reputation around here. He worked hard and near the end actually said that if he couldn't do better than he was seeing he couldn't in good conscience sell me something that wasn't an improvement on what I have.  I don't have the numbers but AoD wasn't horrible but again I have a hard time quantifying that indoors. My recollection was that the AoD w/7 was around 45 deg's. I don't know how that relates but he didn't think that was appropriate. Just wondering if the Srixon zx 5/7 would perform better. As you can tell from my info, club fitting isn't my cup of tea.

 

 

45* would be about the lowest you want to go. Not terrible...but not ideal.  Seems like his motive makes sense from the outside looking in.

 

Heck, he could have just said...these are the best...here you go and tried selling you new clubs on the spot.  Seems like he might have your best interest in mind.  Hopefully, it's not just so he can try and get you in a brand new set of irons that would net him a better return.

 

In the end, the other alternative is just to weaken the lofts a hair if you are that close to height and the right AoD.  You should be able to get a couple of feet/* out of that.  That could be something you could ask him about.

 

The bigger question is how do those results transition to you actual game outside, on a course, in course conditions.  Some people think 'high' when it really isn't, others are pretty accurate with that assessment.

[Pepperturbo]

Honestly, chasing idealistic tour related numbers may have no connection with your 67-year-old mechanics.  Find a set of club heads you like looking at and a shaft that gives YOU acceptable trajectory and spin control.  Be careful the fitter isn't leading you down some club path.  Current AoA is not something most people change easily, so current numbers with your clubs should guide your decision more that what might be sometime later.  Clubs head and shafts need to fit your eye and mechanics, NOT the other way around.  Good luck.

 

PS, I play to a 4, 70yrs old, play Titleist 620 series, self-taught and fit and still getting the ball out there - thanks to technology.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[WVheel1]

56 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

If you're a high ball hitter but hitting it low in your fitting, it wasn't a good day for you to get fit.  You didn't have your normal swing.  

A very real possibility! I wasn't hitting anything what I would call normal for distance, even my 7 iron. I will say that I do think hitting off of the "mat" makes a difference for me.

[WVheel1]

He wasn't pushing anything and I was the one who brought up the Sirixon's. Just really like the players/players distance look. I don't spin the ball and 140 and in is where I most need help. I have trouble holding greens from that distance and a higher launch/AoD would be beneficial. The course I play has funky grass in front of the greens and I cannot reliably hit short and get a true bounce. I guess I will see if the Cally's or Sirixon's make a difference.

[Adam C]

28 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

A very real possibility! I wasn't hitting anything what I would call normal for distance, even my 7 iron. I will say that I do think hitting off of the "mat" makes a difference for me.

Hitting off a mat makes a difference for everyone. The only people who say it doesn't are fitters who coincidently use mats.

[Wardonation]

increase loft... It is strange because I play these and these heads FLY HIGH.... KBS 105 c taper shaft might help as well?