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So I’m hitting balls into the net tonight with launch monitor. My dad has his clubs sitting there and has a P790 demo he was trying out so I decided to compare to my backup set.    Club A: P730

Spot on, probably.  When I started playing, hybrids weren't a thing and the only wedge most people owned was a sand wedge plus the pitching wedge from their set. This was right around the time peop

I really wish I could buy a set of irons that had the loft stamped on the bottom instead of the iron #. 

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Yeah, this trend of stronger lofts/changing labels on the bottom of clubs is extremely confusing to me. All that should matter is the loft of the club, and there should be more of a universal understanding between OEM’s of what range each iron should be. Don’t get it, doesn’t make sense.

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Yeah, it's been going on since King Cobra started lowering lofts.  But as long as guys ask 'what are you hitting?' on a par 3, there will always be a market for distance over everything else.  The average player doesn't know the lofts on their club, so if they are hitting a 42* PW, it's still a PW in their mind.

 

And how we end up with sets with 5* gapping in the short irons and 3* gapping in the long-mid irons.

 

 

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1 minute ago, FlyingLaw1 said:

I really wish I could buy a set of irons that had the loft stamped on the bottom instead of the iron #. 

 

The last models of Hogans had the loft stamped on the bottom.  And IIRC, you could build your set out however you wanted.

 

 

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I'd be willing to bet that mishits would likely be tighter front to back with the P790 though, both due to much higher MOI and a hotter face outside the sweetspot. 

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16 minutes ago, FlyingLaw1 said:

I really wish I could buy a set of irons that had the loft stamped on the bottom instead of the iron #. 

 

You should know your lofts in the first place with which ever club you have in your hands that you are going to put into play or test out.

 

Just google each OEM, check the lofts, say 'eww' and then proceed to not be surprised anymore.

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I think the other factor here is that we are told a players club is going to be wayyyy less forgiving on distance and direction compared to the more offsett, thicker topline and soled GI irons that supposedly is going to help tremendously. In my opinion yes GI irons do help golfers... maybe even more so im the distance area which is fine... i am by no means a big hitter of any of my irons or driver even but... i dont think that players irons and GI irons are that far off anymore... im gamin mp 20 mmc and they are just as small as the mp blades and im still hitting my distances and i can still hit a very straight ball. The only difference im seeing is now i can actually work the ball if i want to... minimal level drop off in forgiveness to play close to a blade. I havent seen a gi iron that you cant chunk or thin or push or slice or hook... blades do it GI irons do it. It seems it comes down to distance retaining but they arent that dar off anymore at all it seems.

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4 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

So I’m hitting balls into the net tonight with launch monitor. My dad has his clubs sitting there and has a P790 demo he was trying out so I decided to compare to my backup set. 
 

Club A: P730 6i lofted at 31* 

 

Club B: P790 7i lofted at 30.5*

 

Both clubs within a quarter inch of each other. 
 

Both clubs carrying between 200-205y repeatedly. Ball speed identical. Smash identical. Both are essentially the same loft. One is apparently a tech filled rocket launcher one is pure blade. 
 

Loft for loft, it’s smoke and mirrors - they’re the same. The difference is I’m playing 5-AW in one set or 4-PW in the other. 
 

If it’s not about telling your buddies that you smoothed a 7i 180 I don’t know what else to tell you. 

Pah! I hit my T400 9 iron nearly that far! *






*I don't own them. The T400 9 is 33* 🤫

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6 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

You’d think that. Caught a couple clean with each, next to no difference. Hit a couple out the toe on each, not much difference. This is ball speed. My guess is launch comes down a touch and club face would twist a bit more with the blade which might lead to a couple more yards of distance loss but you’d be surprised how little the tech helps. 
 

Compare the ball speed drop offs on the blades to the “tech irons” in that video. 
 

 

First off, great link. Not what I was expecting! 
 

I thought, of course a 5 iron will have a greater loss than a 7-iron when not struck purely and that’s essentially what the difference is between some of these lofts, but that’s only partially true.
 

Disclaimer, I hit hollow body irons. I just bought a set of Mizuno HMB irons.

 

With that being said I do not believe in the jumper off the face that goes 10-15 yards longer than it should. I think this Data shows just that. The loss is great due to people not finding the middle of the face consistently. The odd time they do, they see it as a flyer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

Onto the ego portion. I don’t think that is the case across the board, I do think it exists but many people are buying those irons due to forgiveness which many player distance, game improvement, super game improvement irons are marketing.

 

 I bought my HMB’s over the MP 20 blade not because they’re stronger lofted but because I was led to believe they were more forgiving through. marketing. I also like the look of them and the feel. I don’t need extra distance, and club numbers are arbitrary at this point. 
 

Many stronger lofted clubs are marketed towards forgiveness, whether it be an off center strike, or a wide sole to help with turf interaction. I think that is what many are looking towards. 
 

There are people that go “wow, I can hit my 7 iron 175, my last set went 150, technology has come a long way, these irons are LOOOOONG!” 🤪  

 

Ego ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  ignorance is bliss
 

 

 

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I don't play strong lofted irons at the moment. My V6 7 iron is 35*. But, I don't get the loft jacking criticism . If you can get a good descent angle into the greens and have a shorter iron in your hands doing it, it a win win situation. 

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Just out of curiosity wondering if you noted spin rates, peak height and landing angles between the 2?  As you can see in my sig I'm fooling around with my Maltby bag now and I gotta say the TS1's (also hollow/filled) are really nice.  Lofts aren't outrageous and I'd say club for club I'm about one club longer between the TS1's and my W/S Staff model blades.  Forgiveness across the face is certainly better on the TS1's.  This kind of tech is useful and kinda nice IMO.  If controlling the face isn't an issue then it comes down to how much the tech impacts spin and ability to control front/back dispersion.

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9 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

So I’m hitting balls into the net tonight with launch monitor. My dad has his clubs sitting there and has a P790 demo he was trying out so I decided to compare to my backup set. 
 

Club A: P730 6i lofted at 31* 

 

Club B: P790 7i lofted at 30.5*

 

Both clubs within a quarter inch of each other. 
 

Both clubs carrying between 200-205y repeatedly. Ball speed identical. Smash identical. Both are essentially the same loft. One is apparently a tech filled rocket launcher one is pure blade. 
 

Loft for loft, it’s smoke and mirrors - they’re the same. The difference is I’m playing 5-AW in one set or 4-PW in the other. 
 

If it’s not about telling your buddies that you smoothed a 7i 180 I don’t know what else to tell you. 

 

Do they have the same shaft lengths in the longest / shortest clubs?  That usually isn't the case.  The delofted club's shaft is usually shorter.

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3 hours ago, morrisminor said:

It's not just about ego or selling a set based on 7 iron distances though, its also about selling the customer extra 'wedges'.

 

They sell 14 total regardless.  Why would they care about selling extra wedges instead of extra woods?

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I currently have two 6 irons in the bag, and no 5 iron.  The epic forged 6 iron works really well with my apex pro’s as a 5 iron and it is much easier to hit high and stop then the apex pro 5 iron.  As a high speed player, this may not be much of a factor for you, but for me, with a moderate swing speed, there is definitely a difference between the apex pro 5 iron and the epic forged 6.  They go the same distance but do not get there in the same way.  Also, despite that many people claim forgiveness is not real, slight misses are punished so much less.  
 

im not sure if I’m arguing against you or supporting that “it’s not ego”.  I kinda see both sides, and wonder if it is different for high swing speed guys.  For me, there is definitely a difference between a blade and a p790 that goes beyond the numbers on the club.  The more loft, the less it effects me, but the longer the iron the more difference it seems to make to me.  I’m always open to the idea that it’s my subconscious doing things though 😂 

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For the most part i agree, though i would just say i do think there are some differences between heads that can affect trajectory (and therefore distance) even if lofts are the same

 

However, yes i am a big believer that the main driver of this trend is sales, and convincing less knowledgeable golfers that they are hitting their 7 irons further and further

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Having not really paid attention before last year when I started looking for newer clubs, I had no idea. Then just the other day it blew me away.

 

Nike Vapor Pro Combo 3i = 20 degrees.

 

Nike Vapor Fly 4i = 21 degrees.

 

I didn't think the lofts would be different within the same line, but I was wrong.

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I would say that you’re a good player so it doesn’t matter hardly at all. A lot of irons will give you similar performance. For some players, it might, even if it is mental. As for lofts vs the number on the club, just do what I do. Whenever someone asks me what I’m hitting, just say something like, “I’m going with 38 degrees, what about you?”

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9 minutes ago, lefthack said:

Having not really paid attention before last year when I started looking for newer clubs, I had no idea. Then just the other day it blew me away.

 

Nike Vapor Pro Combo 3i = 20 degrees.

 

Nike Vapor Fly 4i = 21 degrees.

 

I didn't think the lofts would be different within the same line, but I was wrong.

 

What are the shaft lengths?

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29 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

They sell 14 total regardless.  Why would they care about selling extra wedges instead of extra woods?

 

If you look back, you can find Vokey going on about how a wedge is wearing out after a small amount of use (claimed amount of rounds vs. actual usage).  So they are pushing that you need to change wedges much sooner.  Not to mention the price of a wedges is borderline sad now and costs way less to make I'm sure than a wood.

 

Had to look up the specs of the T-400 that people were mentioning, just gross they are stooping to this now...

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13 minutes ago, dmeeksDC said:

I would say that you’re a good player so it doesn’t matter hardly at all. A lot of irons will give you similar performance. For some players, it might, even if it is mental. As for lofts vs the number on the club, just do what I do. Whenever someone asks me what I’m hitting, just say something like, “I’m going with 38 degrees, what about you?”

I never have to worry about it DC, no one ever asks me what I'm hitting.😁

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