Try to tell me it’s not ego

[TheDeanAbides]

I'm confused. Are cavity backs better than blades? I hit my CBs so much further so they must be better. Asking for a friend. 


Also, while we're here, is Jack better than Tiger?

[bladehunter]

12 hours ago, agolf1 said:

I think you are contradicting yourself, although you seem to know that.  My point has always been it doesn't matter either way whether the lofts and associated numbers are weak or strong.  I need matching irons from around 25 degrees to 50 degrees.  It could be a 680 4-PW or T400 7-W2.  I always laugh at the PING G guys (and I play some form of the PING Gs most of the time) who have convinced themselves that a 23 degree 5-iron / 49 degree GW is the "maximum acceptable amount" of jacking.   The T400s are no worse than the PING Gs which are no worse than the 21-47 3-iron-PW, which are stronger than say Tiger's specs.  Hence, I don't understand why two, or even three, GWs is any worse than one (or zero)

 

Further, if I bent a set of Blueprints strong so they have a tad more offset like the 680s, no one would care (I would bend the Blueprint "PW" to 44, and then get to Glide Forged wedges at like 48 and 52).  But do the same with a different class of iron and it's a sin.  Similarly, I could play a Titleist 16.5 degree fairway that is often labeled "3-wood."  Or turn down a PING G425 "5-wood" to 16.5.  I can't imagine anyone would care. 

 

I know the traditional (high speed) iron guys say "they don't care" but it does seem like they actually care.  Maybe they just get tired of hearing people say stupid things.  Or maybe they actually do want people to definitively know they they hit their "6-iron" farther than the guys next to them would hit the same club.  I think anyone with half a brain actually knows this but given how many people comment here it does truly seem to bother them that someone claims they are hitting the same (numbered) club as far as them.  As an aside, how do all of these smart, good golfers manage to become buddies (or get paired up) with all of the moron hacks that can't tell a 20 degree "5-iron" from a 28 degree "5-iron?"  This itself may be the most interesting question here.

 

If people want to argue about the modern sets and stupid loft gaps (5-6 degrees in the short irons and 2-3 degrees in the longer irons) I will listen to that.  I actually don't think it's any better or worse that you may have a lot of clubs at 35.5-36.0 length.

To answer the question of how we get paired up with all the Guys  who don’t know the difference between a 20 degree and a 28 degree 5 iron.  The answer is , that 99% do not know the difference. Only the people who are gear head enough to be here know.   So it’s extremely easy to be paired with that guy. 

[pinestreetgolf]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

To answer the question of how we get paired up with all the Guys  who don’t know the difference between a 20 degree and a 28 degree 5 iron.  The answer is , that 99% do not know the difference. Only the people who are gear head enough to be here know.   So it’s extremely easy to be paired with that guy. 

 

Mainly its because people think its cool to make fun of jacked lofts but see nothing hypocritical about playing a 16.5* 3 wood and gushing about its "ball flight" as if they weren't cheating to get it up the air.

 

Falling for marketing gimmicks like higher lofted 3 woods is sad.  A 3 wood has 15* of loft.  Print the loft on the clubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *passes out from both lack of oxygen due to screaming and righteous indignation*

[braincramp52]

I think asking another player what they hit on a hole might be the dumbest question asked while playing golf. If you don't know your game any better than that , it's of no benefit.

[bnperrone]

8 hours ago, Gsea said:

Years ago when the Rouges were released Callaway had a demo day at my course. So I played in the morning and then had my appt. So I'm warmed up and actually striking the ball well that day. So the rep looks in my bag and sorta looks over and doesn't say anything. I have Eye2s in the bag. So he has me hit a few of my 8 irons and like I said hitting well for me, little 145 yd draw. So he hands me the Rouge 8 iron and I'm crushing(for me) with a little draw 165 yds. after the 3rd or 4th shot I turn and say I don't hit an 8 iron that far. The other rep there heard me and said you do now. I replied no I don't I'll just hit my 6 iron that distance. That was the end of the session 🙂

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why did you schedule an appointment for the demo day? The way you describe "actually" striking the ball well that day and then "crushing" their club suggests you saw immediate benefit, even if that model wasn't the right one for you. I personally stick to traditional lofts because I've been playing that way for 30+ years and I genuinely don't want to throw my familiar distances completely into the trash.

 

Do you feel like the rep was judging you for your clubs because he was doing his job in trying to understand what you're in currently? Or that he was slacking because you feel he assumed more distance would make you buy on the spot? Just wondering what you feel like a good outcome from that demo day would've been.

[pinestreetgolf]

2 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why did you schedule an appointment for the demo day? The way you describe "actually" striking the ball well that day and then "crushing" their club suggests you saw immediate benefit, even if that model wasn't the right one for you. I personally stick to traditional lofts because I've been playing that way for 30+ years and I genuinely don't want to throw my familiar distances completely into the trash.

 

Do you feel like the rep was judging you for your clubs because he was doing his job in trying to understand what you're in currently? Or that he was slacking because you feel he assumed more distance would make you buy on the spot? Just wondering what you feel like a good outcome from that demo day would've been.

 

Not to mention that the Rogue 8 iron shaft is a full three-quarter inches shorter than the Ping eye2 6 iron shaft.  That is a huge benefit to the Rogues if you can get 165 out of both.

 

I would also like to hear more about this demo day where you appear to have gone solely to troll the fitter to boost WRX cred despite hitting his clubs well.

Edited January 29, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[Itsjustagame]

People fall for marketing claims all the time. Cars, trucks, cell phones, TVs, mattresses, pillows, vitamins, essential oils etc, etc. etc.

Not sure they need or want to be saved by someone who 'knows better".

[me05501]

23 hours ago, me05501 said:

When I started playing, hybrids weren't a thing and the only wedge most people owned was a sand wedge plus the pitching wedge from their set. This was right around the time people started discussing gap wedges (and why they were even called "gap" wedges). 

 

 

The more I think back, I can remember buying several "A" wedges that matched my irons. I had TM Firesoles and Callaway X-14's and Tommy Armour V-31's, and I bought the A wedge to match each set. Only later did manufacturers start pushing 51-52 degree wedges that were finished out more like a sand wedge. 

I suppose that as long as the gap wedge matched the set the OEM's were stuck with pricing it the same as any other iron in the set. But when you make people want something different, you have more control over the price point. 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by me05501

[bladehunter]

48 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Mainly its because people think its cool to make fun of jacked lofts but see nothing hypocritical about playing a 16.5* 3 wood and gushing about its "ball flight" as if they weren't cheating to get it up the air.

 

Falling for marketing gimmicks like higher lofted 3 woods is sad.  A 3 wood has 15* of loft.  Print the loft on the clubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *passes out from both lack of oxygen due to screaming and righteous indignation*

Youre example falls short. 
 

the example would be if I played a 12 degree 3 wood and bragged on how far it went.  I’m playing 16.5 because the 15 flew almost as far as driver.  

[Gsea]

15 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Not to mention that the Rogue 8 iron shaft is a full three-quarter inches shorter than the Ping eye2 6 iron shaft.  That is a huge benefit to the Rogues if you can get 165 out of both.

 

I would also like to hear more about this demo day where you appear to have gone solely to troll the fitter to boost WRX cred despite hitting his clubs well.

WRX cred lol. It was a story WOW. You and bnperonne oem reps. And I went to see if brand new technology and new clubs were any better for me. They weren't in my opinion. 

[bnperrone]

14 minutes ago, Gsea said:

WRX cred lol. It was a story WOW. You and bnperonne oem reps. And I went to see if brand new technology and new clubs were any better for me. They weren't in my opinion. 

I have nothing to do with any product retailer in any way. I asked a fair question and posed it sincerely and without judgement. What would've constituted a better fit in your mind? I just wanted to know what you were looking to accomplish. That's all. That said, sounds like maybe the other guy struck a nerve with you.

[Titleist_PT23]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

To answer the question of how we get paired up with all the Guys  who don’t know the difference between a 20 degree and a 28 degree 5 iron.  The answer is , that 99% do not know the difference. Only the people who are gear head enough to be here know.   So it’s extremely easy to be paired with that guy. 

May be the only time I say this, but this is overestimating how dumb people are.  Over half of the 99% could recognize that the 20 degree club has less loft on it than the 28 degree club.  That's not being a gearhead.  It's called not being blind.

[Gsea]

1 minute ago, bnperrone said:

I have nothing to do with any product retailer in any way. I asked a fair question and posed it sincerely and without judgement. What would've constituted a better fit in your mind? I just wanted to know what you were looking to accomplish. That's all. That said, sounds like maybe the other guy struck a nerve with you.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I was just looking to see if the new and improved clubs made any difference in my ball striking etc. They did not. Hit the ball the same trajectory with the same ability to flight a ball and cut one if needed. Only difference was the number on the club. If I saw any big diff in shot making, feel etc might of considered a purchase .

And for the record the reps were friendly and not too pushy. 

[AdamsAT]

This thread has really helped with something I was struggling with this past summer. Came back to the game after a 10 year hiatus (school, children, work, etc) and I picked up a set of GIs to replace a 20-yo set of clubs. I used to love my 5i as my go-to club but I couldn't hit my 5i in my new set for the life of me.  My brother who just started this summer thought I was punking him when I gave him the advice about trusting the 5i. It's only now thanks to you fine folks that I realized that my new 5i has the same loft as my 4i in my old set, which I hated. This loft jacking does feel a bit like chicanery on the part of club makers.

[bnperrone]

1 minute ago, Gsea said:

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I was just looking to see if the new and improved clubs made any difference in my ball striking etc. They did not. Hit the ball the same trajectory with the same ability to flight a ball and cut one if needed. Only difference was the number on the club. If I saw any big diff in shot making, feel etc might of considered a purchase .

And for the record the reps were friendly and not too pushy. 

Got it. Makes sense. Feel and the control/forgiveness balance are the only things I've looked for in irons as well. I played my last set of irons for 15 years, so it gets pretty ingrained. I'm comfortable picking up a bit of distance in the short and mid irons due to modern traditional lofts and a better shaft fit for my age/strength/swing, but I'd have had to rewire my entire brain to go from hitting PW 130 carry to 145 or 150. It doesn't make sense to me, so I get that. I picked up a bunch of distance in the long irons, and for me that was a primary goal. My distances at the top were really bunched together before, probably because the old flighted shafts were no longer right for me 15 years later, so that was a good fix.

 

I just didn't like being lumped in with somebody else's *****ish response when I chose my words carefully to avoid being that way. Cheers.

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

May be the only time I say this, but this is overestimating how dumb people are.  Over half of the 99% could recognize that the 20 degree club has less loft on it than the 28 degree club.  That's not being a gearhead.  It's called not being blind.

Yes if it was pointed  out.  I don’t mean that they can’t comprehend the info if taught.  I mean they won’t look past “ it’s a 5 iron “ unless pressed.  

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

 

The more I think back, I can remember buying several "A" wedges that matched my irons. I had TM Firesoles and Callaway X-14's and Tommy Armour V-31's, and I bought the A wedge to match each set. Only later did manufacturers start pushing 51-52 degree wedges that were finished out more like a sand wedge. 

I suppose that as long as the gap wedge matched the set the OEM's were stuck with pricing it the same as any other iron in the set. But when you make people want something different, you have more control over the price point. 

 

 

A lot of Japanese irons from the Nineties had a P/S wedge that fell in between the pitching wedge and sand wedge.  Usually around 52~53* of loft, I think. I've also seen them labelled FW, which I think stands for fairway wedge. As you say, more of an iron than a wedge. In fact, I've a couple of sets that have an 11i. Both these clubs are more iron-like than wedge like (both are 54*, though one was originally about 51* or 52*).

Now back in the day when a pitching wedge was a wedge, the grind wasn't always the same as the irons. I've a set of Mac Muirfields (1982?) in which the PW clearly has a more rounded leading edge than the 9i. I also grew up playing a 1979~80 set of Titleist Tour Models in which the PW was, from address, like a wedge in that it had a somewhat rounded topline. In fact, both the 9i and 8i had a similar topline, then from the 7i down it was straighter.

Here's the Mac Muirfield PW on the right, with the Mac Muirfield 20th PW on the left. Both 50*. See what I mean about the Muirfield on the right being more wedge-like?

[chippa13]

55 minutes ago, AdamsAT said:

This thread has really helped with something I was struggling with this past summer. Came back to the game after a 10 year hiatus (school, children, work, etc) and I picked up a set of GIs to replace a 20-yo set of clubs. I used to love my 5i as my go-to club but I couldn't hit my 5i in my new set for the life of me.  My brother who just started this summer thought I was punking him when I gave him the advice about trusting the 5i. It's only now thanks to you fine folks that I realized that my new 5i has the same loft as my 4i in my old set, which I hated. This loft jacking does feel a bit like chicanery on the part of club makers.

Most that struggle with long irons do so because of shaft length, not loft. Choke up a little and watch your strikes improve.

[DaveGoodrich]

6 hours ago, agolf1 said:

But why then have you "gotten over" needing a GW?  Because it (the naming convention) truly doesn't matter.  The fact that you have a continuous progression of lofts that works means there is "no gap."  Instead, if it did matter, I would expect to see you grind off the current numbers on your clubs, re-chrome them, and label them "correctly."  If you aren't doing this, if have just proved that it really doesn't matter.

 

You are latching on to the fact that I said I've accepted the need for a gap wedge. I was only acknowledging that the "horse is out of the barn," and that OEMs aren't going to start making 50 degree pitching wedges again.  

 

I already acknowledged that functionally, it makes no difference.  You could use 14 random words to label the clubs, and they could function just fine. But that would be confusing, and frankly stupid, sort of like GW2, W3, etc.  

 

 

 

[chippa13]

16 minutes ago, DaveGoodrich said:

 

You are latching on to the fact that I said I've accepted the need for a gap wedge. I was only acknowledging that the "horse is out of the barn," and that OEMs aren't going to start making 50 degree pitching wedges again.  

 

I already acknowledged that functionally, it makes no difference.  You could use 14 random words to label the clubs, and they could function just fine. But that would be confusing, and frankly stupid, sort of like GW2, W3, etc.  

 

 

 

I have no clue which club in my bag is the mashie or the spoon.

[theglide]

3 hours ago, Itsjustagame said:

People fall for marketing claims all the time. Cars, trucks, cell phones, TVs, mattresses, pillows, vitamins, essential oils etc, etc. etc.

Not sure they need or want to be saved by someone who 'knows better".

 Look the lavender essential oil infused grips my wife got me from etsy are great... I mean I have to wear 3 gloves but I'm a believer.  Ha

[BIG STU]

22 hours ago, me05501 said:

Happy ending: the black van is a tour van and he gets to see all the new clubs before anyone else!

 

I think sometimes we forget that people play under different conditions as well. Someone in Arizona plays under different conditions than someone in North Carolina. One might pick the hybrid and one might pick the driving iron in the same loft for different reasons. 

In the example you gave North Carolina can be three different regions with in itself. For example at lets say 150 yards and this would be pretty close to me with my old Mac VIP blades=== Coastal NC at sea level 6 iron at 33* Piedmont NC 7 iron at 37* and pushing the envelop so to speak=== Mountain Region 8 iron at 41*. Yep many variables

[Drivingrangehero]

I used to play with two friends every weekend 10+ years ago. One was a 12+ handicap and my other friend and I hovered between 2-4. We knew each other’s game well, and played on the golf team together in High School and both worked at the local country club from 15-18 yrs old.

 

There certainly can be a gain by asking what someone hit if you know their game. We had similar traditional lofted irons, his were .5 to 1* stronger than mine, but we each bought new sets in the same year (2006). Mizuno MP30 for me and CallawayX-forged for him. Before purchasing the new clubs My friend was about 1/2 club longer than I due to his de-lofting at impact. He hit the ball super low with a fair amount of spin. I was more Mid-low launch and mid high spin.  When we had purchased our new clubs (that were identical lofts of the rack) we had been fit and made adjustments. Standard Mizuno length and loft, 1* upright for me, Standard Callaway length, for him with 1* flat and 2* weak.  My 12+ handicap noticed that My friend Craig was no longer 1/2 club longer than I, but a about 1/2 club shorter now. My 12+ friend thought the New Mizuno’s were long. He didn’t know the lofts of each club, or the alterations we made as a passive observer. He did notice Craig hit the ball higher than before, but never questioned the club. So we told him why that was the case now. 

 

My 12+ handicap friend was a bit over the top, with a high, fairly straight ball flight. The wind would eat him alive. If he was 1 1/2 club shorter than us without wind, he was many more into the wind. No ability to flight the ball at all. We played a par 3 at 178yards with a stiff wind in the face, I hit 4 iron to the middle of the green and my friend Craig hit a 5 iron about 3 yards past me pin high! My 12+ friend pulled out a 3iron and we knew it never had a chance. He must have been 20 yards short of the green.  Ego made him grab an iron rather than the new hybrid he just bought.  My friend Craig said  “if you want to get better at this game, you either learn to pull the right tool, or you make the wrong tool work.” It struck a cord with me.  Craig told him “I didn’t have the right tool there, I made the 5 work, I needed a 4 iron, but I dropped my 4 iron for a 7wood. “ Craig then gave him a lesson on flighting the ball down, and I gleaned a bit from it as well. 

Instruct, inform, learn and grow!
 

No need for Egoism whether it be from the look at what I did, or you’re an ignorant fool crowd. 
 

As one of my best friends Allen (whose funeral I’m going to today unfortunately 😞) would say 

 

“Sometimes its just better to do right, than to be right!” 👍

 

[pinestreetgolf]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Youre example falls short. 
 

the example would be if I played a 12 degree 3 wood and bragged on how far it went.  I’m playing 16.5 because the 15 flew almost as far as driver.  

 

You're gaming a 3 wood that doesn't have the loft of a 3 wood.  Its a 4 wood.  But what is printed on your club?

[Tree Levino]

20 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

You're gaming a 3 wood that doesn't have the loft of a 3 wood.  Its a 4 wood.  But what is printed on your club?

 

 

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

You're gaming a 3 wood that doesn't have the loft of a 3 wood.  Its a 4 wood.  But what is printed on your club?

Yes. It’s a 4 wood.  Nobody says it’s a 3 wood.  If my signature says that it’s in error. Leftover from the 14.5 head that was in its place.  

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

 

I don’t get it.  It literally has a big 4 on it.  Lol. 

[bladehunter]

37 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

You're gaming a 3 wood that doesn't have the loft of a 3 wood.  Its a 4 wood.  But what is printed on your club?

I get what you’re trying to say now.  But.  It just happens that he mavrik line is honest.  The 3 is 15. And the 13 is listed at 3+.   
 

so yes. Some “ 3 woods “ are lying too.  

[BIG STU]

29 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I get what you’re trying to say now.  But.  It just happens that he mavrik line is honest.  The 3 is 15. And the 13 is listed at 3+.   
 

so yes. Some “ 3 woods “ are lying too.  

Yep that is like the Adams in my signature it says it is 16* and I checked it and indeed it is. I does not have any number as to 3 or 4 wood but from what I know I would say it is a 4 wood. On the old V-Steels they claim the 14.5* is a 3 wood and it says so. I guess in the long run there are no published standards so the Manufacturers can put any number they desire

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Some of it is ego sure but also most people can't pick up a pure blade and launch a 6 iron 200 yards, definitely not consistently. Most won't even be consistent with that tech filled rocket launcher. Have to look at the flight as well.

Edited January 29, 2021 by TLUBulldogGolf