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I am 27 years old, 5'10", and 150 lbs so not big at all, but I think I can hit the driver pretty long, 300 yds (not carry) frequently. However I would not say I hit my irons long, my 33 degree 7 iron is only 155 yds. 

 

So I bought a PRGR pocket monitor looking to increase my swing speed, hopefully finding more lag or some other efficiency would create more club head speed.  What I found was I am not swinging my club very fast. Driver hovers in that 94 mph normal to 102 if I go after it, 7 iron around 68-74 . Then I find this nice table showing I am BELOW the 25th percentile in my age group? Is this right? I typically hit the ball further than everyone I play with, but I'll be the first to admit I don't hit it as hard ball speed wise, I know I tend to get the most out of my spin and strikes, but I figured I had to have some speed as well? Is my driver game more of a fluke than actual power?

 

I know there are training techniques, and I plan on doing super speed, but man to get to the 50th percentile of 113 mph is lifting weights the only way to get there?

 

I look at the old farts on the champions tour smoking it to the tune of 175 mph ball speed, i'm lucky to get north of 160.

 

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And Monte at the Senior Open.

No one on the champions tour produces 175 ball speed, besides Phil.  

"Old farts????"   Go get em kid😂😂😂🤙👊   Also, and I'm sure that this has been said above me however if your driver speed is 94-102mph, you're nowhere near 3 bills😂😂   Prior

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Assuming the monitor is correct as far as club speed you don’t hit your driver 300.

 

Also where are those numbers coming from? I swing about 113 and the only time I play with people around there are in high level amateur events or the rare odd ex-athlete or something at a scramble.

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24 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Assuming the monitor is correct as far as club speed you don’t hit your driver 300.

 

Also where are those numbers coming from? I swing about 113 and the only time I play with people around there are in high level amateur events or the rare odd ex-athlete or something at a scramble.

 

Ok, I have nothing to gain by lying to you, but one thing I know for sure is I can get it 300 yards on a flat range.  If you'd like my realistic hard data, I went to sim 2 weeks ago and hit 14 drives, didn't throw a single shot out:

Average Distance: 282 yds

(2) shots at 293 yds

(1) at 291 yds, so only 3 total over 290

shortest was 252 and carried 245

Average Ball Speed: 157 mph 

only 4 hits over 160 mph 

Ave Launch Angle: 17 deg

Ave Height: 119 ft

Ave Landing Angle: 39 deg

Average Hang Time: 6.7 sec

Ave Curve: L 28 ft

 

Just curious where I should be at and what some reasonable goals are I guess, maybe the PRGR monitor is off idk, I always found it odd I get my distance with such low ball speed numbers. 

 

Number came from first image that shows up when typing in average clubhead speed, some clinic or something put them together. 

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If you are getting ball speeds of 160, the PRGR monitor is off. Remember max smash is 1.5ish

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2 hours ago, Jakra1234 said:

 

Ok, I have nothing to gain by lying to you, but one thing I know for sure is I can get it 300 yards on a flat range.  If you'd like my realistic hard data, I went to sim 2 weeks ago and hit 14 drives, didn't throw a single shot out:

Average Distance: 282 yds

(2) shots at 293 yds

(1) at 291 yds, so only 3 total over 290

shortest was 252 and carried 245

Average Ball Speed: 157 mph 

only 4 hits over 160 mph 

Ave Launch Angle: 17 deg

Ave Height: 119 ft

Ave Landing Angle: 39 deg

Average Hang Time: 6.7 sec

Ave Curve: L 28 ft

 

Just curious where I should be at and what some reasonable goals are I guess, maybe the PRGR monitor is off idk, I always found it odd I get my distance with such low ball speed numbers. 

 

Number came from first image that shows up when typing in average clubhead speed, some clinic or something put them together. 


If you are touching 160 ball speed then you are around 110, and the monitor is off on club speed. I think there is a sample size issue on the data above, I don’t agree that those numbers are quite representative for 17-29, at least not the percentiles. There is a thread on this forum with club speed/distance by age that should give you a decent idea, though this forum will skew a bit towards better players as well who tend to swing a bit faster. I’ve read the average amateur driving distance is around 220. 
 

Driving distance by age poll: 

 

 


 

 

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5 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

What altitude are you at? Unless you are at a high altitude something doesn’t add up. I would try to get some time on a high end launch monitor to figure it out (Trackman, Flightscope X3 or GC2/GCQuad)

I’m at a whopping 700 ft altitude.
 

B.Mattay make a good point thought, if toptracer (the data I posted above is from toptracer on an open range in freezing temps by the way) shows my ball speed in the 160s, PRGR has to be reading low. I was swinging HARD this morning and got 106 mph. At a perfect smash factor that wouldn’t get me 160 ball speed.  I’ve got a buddy with a flightscope I’ll have to go cross check some stuff.

 

this all still doesn’t answer why my iron swings/distances are so much lower relative to driver 

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You could be hitting your irons too high with too much spin. Would be interesting to see launch monitor numbers for a 7i. 

Or maybe you're losing speed by using a shaft that is too stiff. Are you using x-stiff shafts on your irons?

 

And yeah I wouldn't focus on swing speed. Ball speed is what matters. That chart also seems off; don't know where their sample comes from but there's no way half of all players 17-29 swing over 113mph. That would mean half of them swing faster than the average PGA pro.

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3 minutes ago, itsame said:

You could be hitting your irons too high with too much spin. Would be interesting to see launch monitor numbers for a 7i. 

Or maybe you're losing speed by using a shaft that is too stiff. Are you using x-stiff shafts on your iron?

 

And yeah I wouldn't focus on swing speed. Ball speed is what matters. That chart also seems off; don't know where their sample size comes from but there's no way half of all players 19-30 swing over 113mph. That would mean half of them swing faster than the average PGA pro.

no normal stiff, actually changing from a 95 gram to 130 gram s300 as recommended by fitter, so you may be right on with height and spin because I am high hitter and high spin with irons, so s300 is going to bring trajectory and spin down. We will see, still think my speed is low though, Reason I'm focusing on swing speed is I can do it at home.

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No, strength training is only part of the equation.  You do realizes that at 105 mph ss, you're carry distance would probably be around 260 to 270 so that your roll out would be 30 to 40 yards.  It makes sense that your 7 iron distance is 155 yards.  As I have posted in another thread, these are the important things to increasing ss in the following order.

 

1. Stretching

2 Speed training aka activation of fast twitch fibers

3. Balance - You can't hit the sweet spot if you're falling all over the place

4 Strength training

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On 1/30/2021 at 3:01 PM, CardsChamps11 said:

Bingo. 175 is above average pga player. 

Average ball speed for PGA tour seems to be 170.  175 is above average. 180+ is the top end.  Then you have guys like Bryson, Cam Champ and even Rory at times who top out at 190+ when they really want it.  I've seen DJ top out at 190 years ago at the Ryder Cup although I'm not so sure he can reach that anymore.  Bryson's got his PEDs(debatable), Dustin has his height and flexibility, Cam Champ is gifted with crazy arm speed speed and Rory is a freak with his double jointed hips.  

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:52 AM, Jakra1234 said:

I’m at a whopping 700 ft altitude.
 

B.Mattay make a good point thought, if toptracer (the data I posted above is from toptracer on an open range in freezing temps by the way) shows my ball speed in the 160s, PRGR has to be reading low. I was swinging HARD this morning and got 106 mph. At a perfect smash factor that wouldn’t get me 160 ball speed.  I’ve got a buddy with a flightscope I’ll have to go cross check some stuff.

 

this all still doesn’t answer why my iron swings/distances are so much lower relative to driver 

Top Tracer range is garbage. Your PRGR may not be 100% accurate but I'd trust it's ball speed number over the Top Tracer every time. As someone said above: if your PRGR is showing 160ish ball speed then you are swinging near 110mph. 

 

There are no shortcuts and if you really want to improve your distance I would focus on the following in order of importance:

Technique and overspeed training

Explosive strength and flexibility

Core strength and balance

Adding mass

 

3-6 months of targeted practice and training will make a huge difference. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 10:14 AM, mgoblue83 said:

Top Tracer range is garbage. Your PRGR may not be 100% accurate but I'd trust it's ball speed number over the Top Tracer every time. As someone said above: if your PRGR is showing 160ish ball speed then you are swinging near 110mph. 

 

There are no shortcuts and if you really want to improve your distance I would focus on the following in order of importance:

Technique and overspeed training

Explosive strength and flexibility

Core strength and balance

Adding mass

 

3-6 months of targeted practice and training will make a huge difference. 

Aren't the top tracer numbers fed by the trackman that is usually on these tee boxes?  Why would you not trust the ball speed numbers?

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17 minutes ago, Qwiklap said:

Aren't the top tracer numbers fed by the trackman that is usually on these tee boxes?  Why would you not trust the ball speed numbers?

No, the Trackman units on the tee box are owned by the PGA tour and supply the information they need for player statistics behind the scenes. Top tracer actually pays the PGA Tour for broadcast marketing purposes and it's a small camera on a tripod that they can set behind the player to record the ball flight. It's a cool technology and pretty accurate with shot shape but is significantly off on ball speed and carry distances. 

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1 minute ago, mgoblue83 said:

No, the Trackman units on the tee box are owned by the PGA tour and supply the information they need for player statistics behind the scenes. Top tracer actually pays the PGA Tour for broadcast marketing purposes and it's a small camera on a tripod that they can set behind the player to record the ball flight. It's a cool technology and pretty accurate with shot shape but is significantly off on ball speed and carry distances. 

 

Wow .. I just learned something new.  Thank you!

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To the OP's post -- work on speed training (super speed sticks) and perhaps check out Clay Ballard's 20 min distance fix.  Work out explosive exercises as well.

 

And work on technique.  I found that my "go hard' swing had a lot of inefficient body sway/movement -- and now I am working with a pro on Skillest to get my swing very simple, efficient and explosive. 

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23 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

No, the Trackman units on the tee box are owned by the PGA tour and supply the information they need for player statistics behind the scenes. Top tracer actually pays the PGA Tour for broadcast marketing purposes and it's a small camera on a tripod that they can set behind the player to record the ball flight. It's a cool technology and pretty accurate with shot shape but is significantly off on ball speed and carry distances. 

I can’t comment on ball speed, but carry distances are damn good under 100 yards, there are several flags that I actually shot with range finder, and if you drop the ball right on the stick at 40 or 70 yards it reads 40 or 70. Past 100 I can’t really see my ball relative to a known target so I can’t comment on that either. I’ve hit balls north of 160 on indoor foresight, so I don’t think top tracer reading 160 it’s that far off, I am  typically around 150-155 mph for both top tracer and foresight. Unless foresight is garbage too idk, but I’m sure it’s more accurate that a prgr that I can’t seem to get above 105 chs. Every once in a while It’ll pick up a “ball speed” (even though I’m not hitting anything) that reads 110-118 mph. When It does read a ball speed as well as club speed on a dry swing, it will show a really low ~80mph club head speed, which is definitely not right. 
 

but yeah nothing is perfect I appreciate all the responses, I was just more curios than anything. Even though most of the posts seem to insinuate I’m full of s*** claiming I have 160 ball speed

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5 minutes ago, Jakra1234 said:

I can’t comment on ball speed, but carry distances are damn good under 100 yards, there are several flags that I actually shot with range finder, and if you drop the ball right on the stick at 40 or 70 yards it reads 40 or 70. Past 100 I can’t really see my ball relative to a known target so I can’t comment on that either. I’ve hit balls north of 160 on indoor foresight, so I don’t think top tracer reading 160 it’s that far off, I am  typically around 150-155 mph for both top tracer and foresight. Unless foresight is garbage too idk, but I’m sure it’s more accurate that a prgr that I can’t seem to get above 105 chs. Every once in a while It’ll pick up a “ball speed” (even though I’m not hitting anything) that reads 110-118 mph. When It does read a ball speed as well as club speed on a dry swing, it will show a really low ~80mph club head speed, which is definitely not right. 
 

but yeah nothing is perfect I appreciate all the responses, I was just more curios than anything. Even though most of the posts seem to insinuate I’m full of s*** claiming I have 160 ball speed

 

As with many monitors as the ball speed increases it becomes harder to get accurate readings. At the speeds PGA tour players are hitting driver Top Tracer is just not very reliable. 

 

Skimming through this thread it seems like you assuming the monitor that gave you a high reading is correct and everything else is wrong. Would be nice if true but I think your best course of action is to get on a monitor that is confirmed accurate (bring a friend who knows his ball speed if you need to) and see what happens.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that "swing speed" is an absolutely irrelevant number and can vary A LOT between different monitors. Ball speed should be very close between quality launch monitors that are calibrated properly and is THE determining factor on how far you can hit the ball. 

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Thunking about going to Top Golf 1-2 times a month this winter. As much as I’d love to get more stats like SS from a LH, I’m guessing it’s 2-3 more expensive than Topgolf on Tuesdays (half off deals). I’d prefer to hit their crap balls for an hour and take note of the carry distance adding 5-10 yards to that. I’m sure I have speed to gain (24, (5’11), 165 lb) as I was hitting a 8 iron (38*) about 125 +5 or 10 (130-135 yards). Not exactly sure how to gauge it, without more data, other than incremental progress (I.e. how far am I hitting it with each session).

 

I do have a pro I go to, she just doesn’t have a LH unfortunately.

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As far as the PRGR, I’ve found that my swing speed without hitting a ball to be pretty low compared to my swing speed when actually hitting a ball. In my back yard it will read 74 mph 8 iron speed and 82-84 when hitting a ball in the range. I do think the info it gives you at the range to be fairly accurate with range balls based on seeing actual carry distances. 

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PRGR I tested was damn close to Foresight numbers so I’m inclined to believe it. There is no way you’re hitting 300y drives unless you’re at elevation with firm fairways. And even then...

 

Regardless, tough to say exactly what you need to gain more speed. Typically people need to practice swinging fast, lift heavy, move light stuff fast, and work on mobility. 

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On 2/3/2021 at 1:14 PM, mgoblue83 said:

 

As with many monitors as the ball speed increases it becomes harder to get accurate readings. At the speeds PGA tour players are hitting driver Top Tracer is just not very reliable. 

 

Skimming through this thread it seems like you assuming the monitor that gave you a high reading is correct and everything else is wrong. Would be nice if true but I think your best course of action is to get on a monitor that is confirmed accurate (bring a friend who knows his ball speed if you need to) and see what happens.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that "swing speed" is an absolutely irrelevant number and can vary A LOT between different monitors. Ball speed should be very close between quality launch monitors that are calibrated properly and is THE determining factor on how far you can hit the ball. 

There's a driving range that I frequent about 20 minutes away from my home that has top tracer installed in 12 stalls.  Not saying it's totally accurate as I have been on my buddy's trackman many times, but the carry distance and ball speed numbers for me between the two aren't that far off.  This is just a sample/my numbers:

 

Ball speed: 175 mph

Launch: 15*

Carry: 295 yards

 

Those are obviously just the some of main parameters that both top tracer and trackman share but of course, trackman has more data parameters and like you said accurate as well.  I do agree however that swing speed is irrelevant.  Golfer one could swing 122 mph and ball speed could be 184 mph while golfer two could have the same ss but ball speed could end up being 177 mph.  In this case it's about COR and where the ball was struck on the face among other factors. 

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"Old farts????"

 

Go get em kid😂😂😂🤙👊

 

Also, and I'm sure that this has been said above me however if your driver speed is 94-102mph, you're nowhere near 3 bills😂😂

 

Prior to my health issues, I was 108-109mph as a +2.8 cap and not near 300yds.(275-280yds) without the benefit of downhill, runway like fairways, back wind, etc. 

 

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6 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

"Old farts????"

 

Go get em kid😂😂😂🤙👊

 

Also, and I'm sure that this has been said above me however if your driver speed is 94-102mph, you're nowhere near 3 bills😂😂

 

Prior to my health issues, I was 108-109mph as a +2.8 cap and not near 300yds.(275-280yds) without the benefit of downhill, runway like fairways, back wind, etc. 

 

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Thanks Old Fart, we’ll never forget you 🏌️☄️💥☠️

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