Once a Cheater - Always a Cheater - can you rehabilitate a bad reputation?

[2bGood]

If you get caught cheating at golf can your reputation survive it? Is there anything you can do to repair the damage?

 

I know/golf with a few 'cheaters'. The reputation attaches very fast and I have never seen someone shake it. In the most extreme case, the golfer is sadly no longer with us but when his golfing accomplishments are spoken about, the fact he cheated always comes up.

Edited January 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[caniac6]

Not sure I could ever played with a guy that cheated without keeping an eye on him.

 

[DLiver]

Yep, cheaters cheat because it is in their nature, not because some malevolent force overtook them for a brief period. The cheaters I've known do it because they love the thrill they get from it (IMO).

[2bGood]

12 minutes ago, DLiver said:

Yep, cheaters cheat because it is in their nature, not because some malevolent force overtook them for a brief period. The cheaters I've known do it because they love the thrill they get from it (IMO).

Funny you say that as that has largely been my experience too, it is almost like a disorder they can not control.

[MtlJeff]

I know someone who was caught cheating several years ago in a club event, and was suspended from competitions for 2 years as a consequence. 

 

People still talk about it. 

 

That being said, i have played several competitive rounds with him and he now seems to be one of the more upstanding guys to be honest. Always errs on the side of taking a worse position, and has become one of the most knowledgeable people in terms of rules in the club. I have relied on his guidance for some judgements in some of the rounds i've played actually. 

 

I think most people don't change....But some do. 

[cardoustie]

Some guys take every opportunity they can to breach rules ... it’s their default nature ... club level events

 

the cheaters at my 2 clubs cannot shake their reps 

[Skhacker]

No you can't get rid of it. It sticks for life. In a game of honor, cheating is the lowest thing you can do. 

[bladehunter]

Well. I’d say Faldo and Watson seem to have recovered from their cheating days.  
I don’t know how much they had to pay.  But at least Faldo seemed pretty much over it on 18 today with his “ whatever you can stomach when you lay  your head on your pillow “ speech.  

 

 

 

[antip]

I know an RO that has worked with Faldo a few times. He said Faldo would try it on, always. "I can take relief here, right?" knowing full well he was not entitled.

[Sawgrass]

8 hours ago, antip said:

I know an RO that has worked with Faldo a few times. He said Faldo would try it on, always. "I can take relief here, right?" knowing full well he was not entitled.

I suppose that's not technically cheating, but I've had it happen too, and it's a special kind of creepy.

 

I once had a knowledgable player state that his ball was "embedded" since it was in fork in a tree, and asked me for absolution!  

[antip]

8 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

I suppose that's not technically cheating, but I've had it happen too, and it's a special kind of creepy.

 

I once had a knowledgable player state that his ball was "embedded" since it was in fork in a tree, and asked me for absolution!  

Perhaps embedded in a bird nest in the tree?

[Hawkeye77]

I suppose it's possible, but in a golf context with folks who care about the game, etc. (i.e. not like minded cheaters) it seems to stick. 

 

One summer in Iowa City four of us would get together and play golf pretty regularly - and we gambled for nickels, you could win $2-$3, lol.  I'm off helping a guy on the team we are playing against look for his ball in some heavy rough.  He must not think I'm looking but in a glance from a ways away (and never suspected him of anything) noticed his hand coming out of his pocket, ball slipping out and "I found it".  I just pretended I didn't see it.  Two years later I get invited to his wedding and at the reception I'm talking to one of the other guys I know, who also played in the group, and asked where the ball dropper was headed for his job after his dissertation was "defended".  I was told he had a job waiting with the CIA at Langley.  So there you are!

Edited February 2, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[antip]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I suppose it's possible, but in a golf context with folks who care about the game, etc. (i.e. not like minded cheaters) it seems to stick. 

 

One summer in Iowa City four of us would get together and play golf pretty regularly - and we gambled for nickels, you could win $2-$3, lol.  I'm off helping a guy on the team we are playing against look for his ball in some heavy rough.  He must not think I'm looking but in a glance from a ways away (and never suspected him of anything) noticed his hand coming out of his pocket, ball slipping out and "I found it".  I just pretended I didn't see it.  Two years later I get invited to his wedding and at the reception I'm talking to one of the other guys I know, who also played in the group, and asked where the ball dropper was headed for his job after his dissertation was "defended".  I was told he had a job waiting with the CIA at Langley.  So there you are!

Flexible thinker, goal oriented - prepared to go the extra mile - what's not to like?

[naval2006]

I've been playing tournament golf in my region for many years.  Since the late 80's to the present, even though now I don't travel too often.  But in my area there were a handful of cheats and everybody knew about them.  None of them ever "rehabilitated" as the title says.  In fact, none of them is playing anymore.  Two of them were suspended for 10 years.  And the most shocking was one of them, great player, a gentleman on the course: he was caught rewriting his scorecard before handing it over in Secretary.   This was a famous case in my area and everybody was taken aback.   

 

The other guy who was suspended for ten 10 years too was caught red-handed kicking a ball in tournament which was in fact the icing on the cake because club officials had been following him for almost a year: modified scorecards, "dropping" shots when telling his marker how many, suspicious very low scores.

 

And there's another guy who was playing a championship match against a kid many years ago and he kicked his ball out of the woods back to the fairway.  The kid, who happened to be a buddy of mine, saw it all and came to the clubhouse crying telling what had happened.  The cheat, in total embarassment, never came back to the club.  

 

So in my experience cheats can't rehabilitate.  As they mentioned above, it's in their nature.  

[miamistomp]

10 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I suppose it's possible, but in a golf context with folks who care about the game, etc. (i.e. not like minded cheaters) it seems to stick. 

 

One summer in Iowa City four of us would get together and play golf pretty regularly - and we gambled for nickels, you could win $2-$3, lol.  I'm off helping a guy on the team we are playing against look for his ball in some heavy rough.  He must not think I'm looking but in a glance from a ways away (and never suspected him of anything) noticed his hand coming out of his pocket, ball slipping out and "I found it".  I just pretended I didn't see it.  Two years later I get invited to his wedding and at the reception I'm talking to one of the other guys I know, who also played in the group, and asked where the ball dropper was headed for his job after his dissertation was "defended".  I was told he had a job waiting with the CIA at Langley.  So there you are!

 And in America , anybody can become--never mind

[naval2006]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:00 AM, antip said:

I know an RO that has worked with Faldo a few times. He said Faldo would try it on, always. "I can take relief here, right?" knowing full well he was not entitled.

I think there's a line between that kind of behaviour, which may not be the most appropriate but it's tolerable, and plain cheating.  There's a lot of gamesmanship of that type in golf, especially in matches, but a player who knows the limit will take a NO for an answer.  You find this in club matches when a seasoned rule-bending player tests a newbie with thinks like where to drop or is it in the penalty area or not, let's check the line.  And even newbies who come from other competitive sports will look at you like a cow asking you if they can get a drop from here, isn't it GUR?

[Swisstrader98]

On 2/1/2021 at 10:25 AM, Sawgrass said:

I suppose that's not technically cheating, but I've had it happen too, and it's a special kind of creepy.

 

I once had a knowledgable player state that his ball was "embedded" since it was in fork in a tree, and asked me for absolution!  

Last name Reed??😂

[llewol007]

That’s why there are rules officials and high definition cameras. Sometimes you will miss it and sometimes you catch it. I have read that it happens more often than we know about specially when there aren’t cameras on you. Reed will be always under suspicion. He brought that on himself. Just wonder about your general viewer jumping on Reed and next round out, they are bumping their ball on every shot 😂😂😂 Played a round with my buddy the other day and we were talking about PR and his last possible cheating incident then he manages to bump his ball unto a better patch of grass then proceeds to hit it. Oh but we were just playing a casual game. I guess we only protect the game when somebody else does it.

Edited February 2, 2021 by llewol007

[Emthree]

It's one of those things where it obviously depends.

 

Would you hold it against someone to sign for a wrong score? I know someone who wrote 8 instead of 9 ..... all of us players had legit lost count, as it was a brutal hole and we all shot over par on it,  but the scorer for the group didn't. That's a DQ level offence.

 

I did not and would never hold that against someone.

[antip]

7 hours ago, Emthree said:

It's one of those things where it obviously depends.

 

Would you hold it against someone to sign for a wrong score? I know someone who wrote 8 instead of 9 ..... all of us players had legit lost count, as it was a brutal hole and we all shot over par on it,  but the scorer for the group didn't. That's a DQ level offence.

 

I did not and would never hold that against someone.

Not if done unintentionally. DQ is a broad church.

[2bGood]

9 hours ago, Emthree said:

It's one of those things where it obviously depends.

 

Would you hold it against someone to sign for a wrong score? I know someone who wrote 8 instead of 9 ..... all of us players had legit lost count, as it was a brutal hole and we all shot over par on it,  but the scorer for the group didn't. That's a DQ level offence.

 

I did not and would never hold that against someone.

I don't see breaking a rule and cheating as the same thing. Cheating to me is the wilful (and blatant) breaking of the rules. It is hard to define, but you know it when you see it. In some cases it is the culmination of many small violations that are part of pattern other times it so big an obvious you just need to see it once to know.

[golfandfishing]

On 2/1/2021 at 12:00 AM, antip said:

I know an RO that has worked with Faldo a few times. He said Faldo would try it on, always. "I can take relief here, right?" knowing full well he was not entitled.

This is the default mindset of every tour player, mini tour player, collegiate and higher level junior golfer now. Tour players are especially guilty of wanting (and mostly getting) relief. 
 

[Mookieb10]

If I can rehabilitate from crippling substance abuse, anyone can rehabilitate from nearly anything. The cheater must have a reason to change though. It seems elementary, but the cheater must get to a point where not cheating is a better option than cheating. 

[Divot License]

A cheater may and can change their behavior however whether their reputation can be changed is a very different matter. 

[ebk]

Seems Vijay rehabilitated to a big extent...

[Loki]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:28 PM, 2bGood said:

I don't see breaking a rule and cheating as the same thing. Cheating to me is the wilful (and blatant) breaking of the rules. It is hard to define, but you know it when you see it. In some cases it is the culmination of many small violations that are part of pattern other times it so big an obvious you just need to see it once to know.

I agree. 

 

The guy that you play a tourney with and he seems to recover really well from his position or lie because he manages to hit his ball when no one is watching or turns in his scorecard late after a noticeable look at the scoreboard leaves and comes back. Yeah, you see enough and you hope you don't get paired with him anymore. 

 

Breaking a rule isn't cheating. Intentionally breaking a rule is.

[Mr. Bean]

On 2/1/2021 at 1:49 AM, bladehunter said:

Well. I’d say Faldo and Watson seem to have recovered from their cheating days. 

 

 

Do you have some facts to share of those having cheated?

[Mr. Bean]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:07 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

 I was told he had a job waiting with the CIA at Langley.  So there you are!

 

So... people working at CIA tend to advertise it? Wow...

[Mr. Bean]

On 2/2/2021 at 2:35 PM, naval2006 said:

Two of them were suspended for 10 years.

 

Not trying to defend cheating here but that's kinda harsh!!

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So... people working at CIA tend to advertise it? Wow...

Oh brother.

 

Nope, I'm sure my buddy was lying to us about his new job, lol. 

 

Wait a minute, that's consistent with having his new job.

 

They may neither confirm or deny his employment if you want to check it out, but pretty sure guys with doctorates in economics and bad knees from college basketball weren't being issued FN Brownings in 1984. 😉 

 

Come to think about it his i.d. did say Frank Furter's Wiener Emporium.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Hawkeye77