OEM's are a big joke. How long before we have a 39 PW?

[mikec3672]

Bottom line there have been improvements in forgiveness and tech, yes, but I can (10 cap) shoot practically the same scores (with more fun when I do), with an old set of PING ISI Laminate Woods, and MP33's. All that said, they are for profit companies, whose job it is to market and sell us hope. How can you blame them? I find all the bashing odd. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by mikec3672

[Abe21599]

Why does it matter to you? 

[dekez]

It matters to me because it takes us for fools.

[Pepperturbo]

I disagree with the OP, that OEMs are a joke.  Yes, OEMs like to control the buying narrative, can't blame a business for that.  All they are really doing is feeding a demand.  Guess who's behind the demand... It's not the OEM as much as a huge lazy contingent of people that don't like to practice and another segment that does not have the time to practice; they want to buy distance.  To that latter point, it's a joke in view of the fact, stronger lofts haven't, and still are not improving indexes.

 

With that said, there's another factor that will have repercussions, in time.  As lofts of irons get stronger, many of the people buying strong lofted irons will run into difficulties hitting those even stronger lofted irons.  A great many of the same users were struggling with long irons due to lofts, so OEMs brought in hybrid replacement irons to make it easier for them.  Put those dots together and tell me what you see...

[sonnygolf]

5 hours ago, Abe21599 said:

Why does it matter to you? 

 

Silly question 

 

I have Ping G25 and have my lofts and distances dailed in for many years. And wedge set up has always been  52 / 58 set up. These 2 clubs are my bread and butter. With the pathetic jacked up  lofts is out of question playihng 52/58. The OEMs want us to spend more money as we have to buy more wedges.  

 

tThe only option is me going for players clubs. There are lots of people who dont want players clubs and happy with their old set up but stumped because of the pathetic OEMs and their bs. 

 

[dekez]

5 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I disagree with the OP, that OEMs are a joke.  Yes, OEMs like to control the buying narrative, can't blame a business for that.  All they are really doing is feeding a demand.  Guess who's behind the demand... It's not the OEM as much as a huge lazy contingent of people that don't like to practice and another segment that does not have the time to practice; they want to buy distance.  To that latter point, it's a joke in view of the fact, stronger lofts haven't, and still are not improving indexes.

 

With that said, there's another factor that will have repercussions, in time.  As lofts of irons get stronger, many of the people buying strong lofted irons will run into difficulties hitting those even stronger lofted irons.  A great many of the same users were struggling with long irons due to lofts, so OEMs brought in hybrid replacement irons to make it easier for them.  Put those dots together and tell me what you see...

I found your post thought provoking. Thank you.  I still hate that ever year there are less and less clubs in the Game Improvement category I'd even consider.

[kiwihacker]

21 minutes ago, sonnygolf said:

 

Silly question 

 

I have Ping G25 and have my lofts and distances dailed in for many years. And wedge set up has always been  52 / 58 set up. These 2 clubs are my bread and butter. With the pathetic jacked up  lofts is out of question playihng 52/58. The OEMs want us to spend more money as we have to buy more wedges.  

 

tThe only option is me going for players clubs. There are lots of people who dont want players clubs and happy with their old set up but stumped because of the pathetic OEMs and their bs. 

 

Your post sums up my views exactly. And again I'll debunk all the naysayers who claim it's only the number stamped on the bottom of the club that has changed. See lofts below.  One is 3-LW the other is 4-LW. No prizes for guessing which is which.

 

G25/G425

20/20.5

23/23.3

26/26.5

29/30

32/34.5

36/39.5

40/44.5

45/49.5

50/54

54/58

58/ - 

[chippa13]

25 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

Your post sums up my views exactly. And again I'll debunk all the naysayers who claim it's only the number stamped on the bottom of the club that has changed. See lofts below.  One is 3-LW the other is 4-LW. No prizes for guessing which is which.

 

G25/G425

20/20.5

23/23.3

26/26.5

29/30 here or.....

32/30 here

36/34.5

40/39.5

45/44.5

50/49.5

54/54

58/58

Really not all that far off once I fixed it for you.

[lefthack]

I just put my 17.5 2 iron back in my bag. I forgot that damn thing even existed. I know I haven't tried to hit it in 15 years.

[pinestreetgolf]

I wouldn’t want to be in the car with some of y’all when the drive through tells you they don’t have small sodas anymore.

[tigerfan23]

7 hours ago, dekez said:

It matters to me because it takes us for fools.

u play 0211 irons

 

[kiwihacker]

3 hours ago, chippa13 said:

Really not all that far off once I fixed it for you.

Yeah I must admit those lofts were pretty close. They start out the same, they finish up the same, they just skip an iron somewhere midway through the set. Lol

[kiwihacker]

1 hour ago, pinestreetgolf said:

I wouldn’t want to be in the car with some of y’all when the drive through tells you they don’t have small sodas anymore.

Disappointing. Surely you can come up with a better analogy than that? 

[Titleist_PT23]

7 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

Your post sums up my views exactly. And again I'll debunk all the naysayers who claim it's only the number stamped on the bottom of the club that has changed. See lofts below.  One is 3-LW the other is 4-LW. No prizes for guessing which is which.

 

G25/G425

20/20.5

23/23.3

26/26.5

29/30

32/34.5

36/39.5

40/44.5

45/49.5

50/54

54/58

58/ - 

Honestly, I would argue that the G25s have crappy loft gaps (too many clubs only 3 degrees apart).  I still have an old set around and have them set at 25-28-32-36-40-44-49 (5-iron to UW).  Other than the UW at 49, they are the same as a set of 680 4-PW (PW here is 48).

 

I guess some will argue that the G425s have too many clubs with 4.5-5.0 degree gaps and then it drops to 3.5-3.0.

[dekez]

8 hours ago, tigerfan23 said:

u play 0211 irons

 

Right. The PW is 45*.  That is my personal limit.  Compare that to other irons in the category.

[pinestreetgolf]

1 hour ago, dekez said:

Right. The PW is 45*.  That is my personal limit.  Compare that to other irons in the category.

 

In that other thread, the consensus was 46/47 was a "pitching wedge".  Someone pointed out that it used to be 52* but that person was (rightfully) ignored.  Standard lofts can change over time until they hit a 46/47* PW in which case they are locked in place forever.  Also, never upgrade because the new 0211s have a 42* PW.

 

Sorry man, you're playing jacked irons.  Our support group meets in the basement of the Presbyterian church on Parkland at 6 pm on Thursdays.  Bring doughnuts when its your turn.

 

PS. You don't get to choose what loft you want in your PW if you want to be taken seriously.  I learned that here, recently.

Edited February 4, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[dekez]

16 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

In that other thread, the consensus was 46/47 was a "pitching wedge".  Someone pointed out that it used to be 52* but that person was (rightfully) ignored.  Standard lofts can change over time until they hit a 46/47* PW in which case they are locked in place forever.  Also, never upgrade because the new 0211s have a 42* PW.

 

Sorry man, you're playing jacked irons.  Our support group meets in the basement of the Presbyterian church on Parkland at 6 pm on Thursdays.  Bring doughnuts when its your turn.

 

PS. You don't get to choose what loft you want in your PW if you want to be taken seriously.  I learned that here, recently.

Haha. Fair enough. Take care.

[kiwihacker]

1 hour ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

In that other thread, the consensus was 46/47 was a "pitching wedge".  Someone pointed out that it used to be 52* but that person was (rightfully) ignored.  Standard lofts can change over time until they hit a 46/47* PW in which case they are locked in place forever.  Also, never upgrade because the new 0211s have a 42* PW.

 

Sorry man, you're playing jacked irons.  Our support group meets in the basement of the Presbyterian church on Parkland at 6 pm on Thursdays.  Bring doughnuts when its your turn.

 

PS. You don't get to choose what loft you want in your PW if you want to be taken seriously.  I learned that here, recently.

How long before that 42° wedge is 21° and we play 7 different gap wedges to get us to, I dunno, a 54° or 56° sand wedge? You know that wedge that can't be jacked because it needs to be 54°-56° to do it's job out of the bunker? 

 

A set might look something like this:

 

Pitching wedge 21° 

Long Approach wedge 1 24°

Long Approach wedge 2 27°

Mid Approach wedge 1 32°

Mid Approach Wedge 2 36°

Mid Approach Wedge 3 40°

Short Approach Wedge 44°

Utility wedge 48°

Attack wedge 52°

Sand wedge 56° 

 

This setup will be awesome for older golfers and those who have lost swing speed enabling them to reclaim lost distance. They'll be able to play like Bryson Dechambeau and hit Driver, Wedge on nearly every hole. The company that brings this setup to the market first will be ground breaking. I would jump at the chance to game this setup.

 

However I might consider swapping out that 'hard to hit' pitching wedge with a hybrid. Otherwise this setup is perfect. 👍

[Bye]

It’s possible with the Titleist range to game;

 

4 iron

4 iron

7 iron 

7 iron

7 iron

pw

pw

pw

 

With 4 degree gaps between each.

 

[RainShadow]

[lazyjc4]

One thing I did enjoy about my previous set of irons (OG Hogan PTx), since they had the lofts on the the sole of the club, I could name them after famous athletes that wore that number.  "What did you hit there?"  "Tony Dorsett".  Good for a few laughs.

[jomatty]

The way I deal with the issue of jacked lofts is as follows:

if I suspect someone is claiming they hit the ball farther than they should because their lofts are too strong immediately challenge them to a feat of strength.  Usually I will ask them to engage in Greco Roman wrestling on the Teebox.  Sometimes I will suggest arm wrestling.  This usually will sort out who is the stronger and more manly man.  

[Bad9]

Just now, lazyjc4 said:

One thing I did enjoy about my previous set of irons (OG Hogan PTx), since they had the lofts on the the sole of the club, I could name them after famous athletes that wore that number.  "What did you hit there?"  "Tony Dorsett".  Good for a few laughs.

🤣 That's the only good reason to have lofts stamped on the clubs I have ever heard of. Good one.

[pinestreetgolf]

43 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

How long before that 42° wedge is 21° and we play 7 different gap wedges to get us to, I dunno, a 54° or 56° sand wedge? You know that wedge that can't be jacked because it needs to be 54°-56° to do it's job out of the bunker? 

 

A set might look something like this:

 

Pitching wedge 21° 

Long Approach wedge 1 24°

Long Approach wedge 2 27°

Mid Approach wedge 1 32°

Mid Approach Wedge 2 36°

Mid Approach Wedge 3 40°

Short Approach Wedge 44°

Utility wedge 48°

Attack wedge 52°

Sand wedge 56° 

 

This setup will be awesome for older golfers and those who have lost swing speed enabling them to reclaim lost distance. They'll be able to play like Bryson Dechambeau and hit Driver, Wedge on nearly every hole. The company that brings this setup to the market first will be ground breaking. I would jump at the chance to game this setup.

 

However I might consider swapping out that 'hard to hit' pitching wedge with a hybrid. Otherwise this setup is perfect. 👍

 

I have no idea what personality disorder you have that would care if someone in your group chose to play this.  Its really weird.  This setup you've described isn't for me, but I could care less if someone was having fun with it somewhere in the world.  Its also really weird that you seem to look down on people who would play this.  The amazing thing about golf is the ability to choose your own 14, your own style, and get it in the hole.  Bring out a 21* PW.  If it makes somebody somewhere enjoy the game more then awesome.

 

You know who really doesn't care about jacked lofts? The course.

You know who really does care about jacked lofts? Golfers who are so insecure they care more about the number on the bottom of the iron than the number on the card.

 

Edit: You could literally replace the Shooter McGavin "Whats next? A golfer with an arm growing out of his a**?" speech with this post and it would fit perfectly.

 

"Come on Doug, Kick him off the tour!"

-Kiwihacker, probably

Edited February 4, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[xkilgorextroutx]

It's a damn shame that there's only 3 new sets out there for people to buy because they think paying for new clubs will make them a pro golfer. It really sucks that everyone is stuck with so few choices out there in the golf club industry, I mean what a first world problem. If only there were more than a few manufacturers or a couple of lines out there to choose from. 

[ReidThompson]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:53 AM, MattM97 said:

Oh this topic again, and this is for you: 

 

 

But you do realize these clubs with "jacked lofts" have the COG super low in the head so they launch the ball much higher. If they had these jacked lofts and didn't have the COG super low the ball would go for miles but not able to hold any green.

 

In the end who really cares if one person uses a 48° PW or a 39° PW, if they both enjoy the game that's all that's needed. Gatekeeping the game is what's keeping people out. 

The why do they make A and Gs with the same type design/CG characteristics?

[GWfool]

On 2/1/2021 at 10:18 PM, sonnygolf said:

They might as well do away with the faux numbering 4  - 9 on irons and we call all irons by their lofts.

I agree, Ben Hogan got s*** on for trying this but I thought it was a great idea. When people ask me what club I hit I generally just answer with my yardage club or something like that. One day when I get a custom set from National Custom I will probably have my yardage or lofts stamped instead of numbers. Lofts is probably better because obviously you hit multiple shots with the same loft so the yardages can vary, but I know last year Westwood had his full distances written on his irons.

[tigerfan23]

3 hours ago, dekez said:

Right. The PW is 45*.  That is my personal limit.  Compare that to other irons in the category.

 

Which are massive and full of multi Material Technology that didn't exist 20 years ago.

 

Things change

 

 

[dekez]

5 minutes ago, tigerfan23 said:

 

Which are massive and full of multi Material Technology that didn't exist 20 years ago.

 

Things change

 

 

Fair enough. My 0211 strike me as svelte, but I'm not comparing them to blades.  I fully agree that anyone should play whatever they want and I don't look down at them for it.  My gripe is that rather than truly innovating, the OEMs are just adjusting loft and length.  Give us some true innovation.

[Simpsonia]

2 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

How long before that 42° wedge is 21° and we play 7 different gap wedges to get us to, I dunno, a 54° or 56° sand wedge? You know that wedge that can't be jacked because it needs to be 54°-56° to do it's job out of the bunker? 

 

A set might look something like this:

 

Pitching wedge 21° 

Long Approach wedge 1 24°

Long Approach wedge 2 27°

Mid Approach wedge 1 32°

Mid Approach Wedge 2 36°

Mid Approach Wedge 3 40°

Short Approach Wedge 44°

Utility wedge 48°

Attack wedge 52°

Sand wedge 56° 

 

 

 

And what if we took your set, and just took letter/number off the sole. 

 

21° club 

24° club

27° club

32° club

36° club

40° club

44° club

48° club

52° club

56° club

 

Now what you're left with is a set of clubs that due to technology changes in COG have proper shaft lengths for the given ball speed/launch angle combinations. Really all the OEMs are doing is shortening shaft length for the given loft to better match launch conditions. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Simpsonia