OEM's are a big joke. How long before we have a 39 PW?

[Go Horns!]

Screw rolling back drivers and the ball, the USGA needs to investigate these bomber PWs.

[larryd3]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:40 PM, MattM97 said:

 

Cause there are several different kinds of golfers. These clubs are meant for that really new person to the game who wants to play but may not want lessons right now. The older guy who retired and thinking of picking it up with the game. The grandparent who maybe wants to play with their kids or grandkids. The person with the physical disability or senior that doesn't have the strength or physical ability to get a ball up in the air with tradition loft.

 

I fully believe these people and many others deserve to play and enjoy the game like we do. So why should we hand them something that makes the game harder just cause everyone else is using it? They're not going pro, they're probably playing a local 9 hole at most but if they're enjoying it that's all that should matter. 

 

That's what these clubs are for, it's to get more people into the game, this is a game for everyone to play. Say the newbie starts off with a jacked set of irons gets better, gets a traditional set of irons and gives these to a friend, sibling or cousin that's another person in this game and the cycle continues. 

Hum, so I'm a 7 index and playing T200s which have jacked lofts.  Don't think I'm new to the game or any of the other things you mentioned.  The clubs are for whoever they work well for.  That's all it comes down to.   

[wobgon]

On 2/2/2021 at 9:28 AM, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Although there is no "standard", it is still misleading.  It's bugged me for years as I think it's a pretty BS thing for the OEM's to do, and it is misleading marketing.  

 

I noticed it the other day in the grocery store and it hit too close to home.  I LOVE Ice Cream.  So when I saw a brand I used to buy and their tub was 1.68L when it used to be 2L while trying their best to make the tubs look the same as before...  Lost a customer.

Do you feel that it is misleading for a club to have a 47 degree pitching wedge because they used to be 50?

[setter02]

7 minutes ago, wobgon said:

Do you feel that it is misleading for a club to have a 47 degree pitching wedge because they used to be 50?

 

When I started to get more interested in golf and actually paying attention to equipment, I had the 695CB's (14ish years ago).  They had a 46* "PW" and I have been a 50/54/58 guy basically ever since.  This has been my 'comfort' level so to speak in the range of what loft I can reasonably consider a "PW".  Something that is sub 40* I can't even remotely begin to accept.  I even have a hard time at 44*.

 

I would have zero issue what so ever if 50* became a default loft or range for that club with a +/- 2*.  It makes sense as if I'm really going to be "pitching" the ball, it is likely with my now 50* "GW".

 

So yes, misleading could be used for 47*, but 44* and under for me is just lying about things to sell other clubs.

[wobgon]

7 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

When I started to get more interested in golf and actually paying attention to equipment, I had the 695CB's (14ish years ago).  They had a 46* "PW" and I have been a 50/54/58 guy basically ever since.  This has been my 'comfort' level so to speak in the range of what loft I can reasonably consider a "PW".  Something that is sub 40* I can't even remotely begin to accept.  I even have a hard time at 44*.

 

I would have zero issue what so ever if 50* became a default loft or range for that club with a +/- 2*.  It makes sense as if I'm really going to be "pitching" the ball, it is likely with my now 50* "GW".

 

So yes, misleading could be used for 47*, but 44* and under for me is just lying about things to sell other clubs.

I understand your point. It just seems that people seems to forget that compared to when i started playing, 47 degree pitching wedges and 43 degree 9 irons are jacked lofts.

[setter02]

8 minutes ago, wobgon said:

I understand your point. It just seems that people seems to forget that compared to when i started playing, 47 degree pitching wedges and 43 degree 9 irons are jacked lofts.

 

 

Understood.  But you can't compare a 3* change in loft to what is going on now.  By that thinking, a 7i back then would be what they are calling PW's today in some sets.

[kiwihacker]

4 hours ago, Bye said:

It’s possible with the Titleist range to game;

 

4 iron

4 iron

7 iron 

7 iron

7 iron

pw

pw

pw

 

With 4 degree gaps between each.

 

That is awesome! 

[Barfolomew]

On 2/2/2021 at 8:32 AM, caniac6 said:

I'm holding out for a 20 degree wedge so I can use driver wedge on every hole.

 

Driver wedge is par for the course...

[wobgon]

30 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

 

Understood.  But you can't compare a 3* change in loft to what is going on now.  By that thinking, a 7i back then would be what they are calling PW's today in some sets.

I am just saying that what people consider to be traditional lofts keeps changing.....Many people consider a 46 degree pitching wedge to be traditional and there was a time when that would have been crazy.

[setter02]

9 minutes ago, wobgon said:

I am just saying that what people consider to be traditional lofts keeps changing.....Many people consider a 46 degree pitching wedge to be traditional and there was a time when that would have been crazy.

 

Yes, that would likely coincide with the mass influx of golfers that came to the game like 1998-2010.  While players irons were still in the 48* ish range for PW, some had already started to creep forward.  By '05, a 45* PW was already an SGI staple (RAC OS and Fushions) while the G2's still kept it at 47*.  This to me would be the bulk of players in the 35-50 range that are accustomed to this loft range (I'm 42).

[Ripken08]

What a novel topic for a post....

[blazman11]

I think someone needs to check Rorys bag to ensure there are only 14 clubs. He hit his 7 iron 205 so I assume he must be playing 6 wedges. 

[kiwihacker]

6 minutes ago, blazman11 said:

I think someone needs to check Rorys bag to ensure there are only 14 clubs. He hit his 7 iron 205 so I assume he must be playing 6 wedges. 

How can this be? His 7 iron is a 'traditional' 34°. 

[blazman11]

25 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

How can this be? His 7 iron is a 'traditional' 34°. 

I know right.  Horschel is a short knocker. Using his 7 on the 192 yd 7th. Speith used an 8 iron and hit it a few yards past the hole. What in the world are these guys hitting from 150?  Their putter?  No way anyone can gap with those iron distances 🙂

[JFM628]

3 hours ago, wobgon said:

Do you feel that it is misleading for a club to have a 47 degree pitching wedge because they used to be 50?

This subject was old and stupid 6 years ago.  

 

Those damn OEM's are ruining golf.  crappy game now...these stronger lofts ruin it for everyone.

[jomatty]

3 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

When I started to get more interested in golf and actually paying attention to equipment, I had the 695CB's (14ish years ago).  They had a 46* "PW" and I have been a 50/54/58 guy basically ever since.  This has been my 'comfort' level so to speak in the range of what loft I can reasonably consider a "PW".  Something that is sub 40* I can't even remotely begin to accept.  I even have a hard time at 44*.

 

I would have zero issue what so ever if 50* became a default loft or range for that club with a +/- 2*.  It makes sense as if I'm really going to be "pitching" the ball, it is likely with my now 50* "GW".

 

So yes, misleading could be used for 47*, but 44* and under for me is just lying about things to sell other clubs.

What exactly is the lie?  What about people who bought sets with a 43 degree pw and are happy with it?  Should they not be able to have the set because it offends your sensibilities?  What if they start a post where they complain about antiquated lofts needing to be replaced?  Wouldn’t it make more sense for everyone to just pick a set that fits what they want rather than worry about sets that obviously don’t suit them?

[kiwihacker]

19 minutes ago, blazman11 said:

I know right.  Horschel is a short knocker. Using his 7 on the 192 yd 7th. Speith used an 8 iron and hit it a few yards past the hole. What in the world are these guys hitting from 150?  Their putter?  No way anyone can gap with those iron distances 🙂

I'm wondering if I can get a 'jacked' 23° hybrid and call it a 7 iron in order to match those distances! 😂

[Tree Levino]

52 minutes ago, blazman11 said:

I know right.  Horschel is a short knocker. Using his 7 on the 192 yd 7th. Speith used an 8 iron and hit it a few yards past the hole. What in the world are these guys hitting from 150?  Their putter?  No way anyone can gap with those iron distances 🙂

 

If you actually think this I really worry about your knowledge of the game. Rory is hitting a 7i stock 188 carry (can step on it for a bit more) to arrive at a 200 yard pin. Might have been a bit of help yada yada. The point is, he's sitting in the high 130s for ball speed with a 7i and spinning it near 7k RPM. When he takes some off a shot to hit a certain distance, his baseline spin and peak height are higher, so taking some off that shot allows him to control distance and retain those. When we are talking about amateurs who mostly already lack the peak height and spin needed to hold a green, trying to cover yardages is more difficult. What you end up with is 6 degree gaps in the short irons and closer gaps in the long irons. It is not what you need to score better. It's just smoke and mirrors. My other thread regarding loft jacking had my numbers for my P730 6i vs my dad's P790 7i (Both approx 31*) in it. What essentially happened at the same shaft length (I won't get into carry as the snowflakes don't like people who hit ball far) is that the clubs went the same distance. So, by using the P790, I would essentially "lose" a club in the scoring range and I'd have to cover the gaps with less clubs. Further to that, with the 7 spinning like the 6, I have less effective spin to cover those scoring shots as well making it harder to go at tough pins etc. 

 

 

Rory yardages below for reference. 

 

 

Driver…………………………… 321 yards
3-wood …………………………. 287 yards
5-wood …………………………. 268 yards
3-iron …………………………… 245 yards
4-iron …………………………… 236 yards
5-iron …………………………… 217 yards
6-iron …………………………… 205 yards
7-iron  ………………………….. 188 yards
8-iron …………………………… 176 yards
9-iron …………………………… 161 yards
Pitching wedge ………………. 146 yards
Sand wedge …………………… 122 yards
Lob wedge …………………….. 105 yards

 

Source:

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/04/21/a-close-up-look-at-rory-mcilroys-taylormade-equipment/2/

Edited February 4, 2021 by TigerInTheWoods

[chippa13]

So get up, get, get, get down......

OEMs is a joke in yo town......

[Krt22]

7 hours ago, dekez said:

Fair enough. My 0211 strike me as svelte, but I'm not comparing them to blades.  I fully agree that anyone should play whatever they want and I don't look down at them for it.  My gripe is that rather than truly innovating, the OEMs are just adjusting loft and length.  Give us some true innovation.

Better by a second set if you like the, because the new 0211s are all jacked up. If you simply try to upgrade, you are going to get bamboozled big time. Damn them

[vman]

I've been playing for over 40 years and have seen many changes in equipment but golf is still the same. You get to choose 14 clubs and you can fill your bag with tools to do a certain job or multiple jobs. There is so much choice, so much to test and distance gapping is not an issue, you've just got to figure it out.

[lefthack]

Maybe I'm weird, but I have never been overly concerned with my iron lofts, only my club distance. If it takes me club X to hit Y yards is all that matters. That and hitting that yardage consistently.

 

I have looked at the lofts in regards to gaps for my wedges and fairway woods. But just to make sure there is a good gap.

[setter02]

2 hours ago, jomatty said:

What exactly is the lie?  What about people who bought sets with a 43 degree pw and are happy with it?  Should they not be able to have the set because it offends your sensibilities?  What if they start a post where they complain about antiquated lofts needing to be replaced?  Wouldn’t it make more sense for everyone to just pick a set that fits what they want rather than worry about sets that obviously don’t suit them?

 

The lie is that the OEM's are constantly "jacking" the lofts of things and saying you'll hit xyz iron further because of all this new "tech".  This isn't even something I would assume a wrx'r would ask...  The VAST majority of golfers have no clue what so ever about what their specs are, left alone be able to recite lofts of various sets.  That is the issue, not that a wrx'r has a basic understanding, that they are misleading the general public that they are recreating the wheel each generation.

 

If you bought a set with a 43* PW and are happy with that set, congrats, you have a set of irons that you are happy with.  But if your next set is purchased under the impression that you hit your next PW further without being informed about what the loft is, what would you call that? 

[pinestreetgolf]

21 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

The lie is that the OEM's are constantly "jacking" the lofts of things and saying you'll hit xyz iron further because of all this new "tech".  This isn't even something I would assume a wrx'r would ask...  The VAST majority of golfers have no clue what so ever about what their specs are, left alone be able to recite lofts of various sets.  That is the issue, not that a wrx'r has a basic understanding, that they are misleading the general public that they are recreating the wheel each generation.

 

If you bought a set with a 43* PW and are happy with that set, congrats, you have a set of irons that you are happy with.  But if your next set is purchased under the impression that you hit your next PW further without being informed about what the loft is, what would you call that? 

 

Somebody buying something to have fun with that they like.

 

I realize your trying to fight the good fight but nobody asked you to fight it.  Literally nobody cares. 

 

I see you play Tour Issue shafts.  Definitely a good call, I'm sure your sensitivity to exactly 122 grams is really astute, and you haven't been swindled by True Temper.  If I gave you a 126 gram shaft you'd notice immediately, right?

 

Personally, I think the Tour Issue shafts in your bag are a massive con and you got bamboozled.  But I don't care.  Know why?  Because you bought them, not me.

[dekez]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

Better by a second set if you like the, because the new 0211s are all jacked up. If you simply try to upgrade, you are going to get bamboozled big time. Damn them

I saw that. Couldn't believe it. My list keeps getting smaller and smaller. At least until I hit the hacker senior tour.  Which will happen in about 5 years.

[setter02]

9 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Somebody buying something to have fun with that they like.

 

I realize your trying to fight the good fight but nobody asked you to fight it.  Literally nobody cares. 

 

I see you play Tour Issue shafts.  Definitely a good call, I'm sure your sensitivity to exactly 122 grams is really astute, and you haven't been swindled by True Temper.  If I gave you a 126 gram shaft you'd notice immediately, right?

 

Personally, I think the Tour Issue shafts in your bag are a massive con and you got bamboozled.  But I don't care.  Know why?  Because you bought them, not me.

 

I re-shaft my own gear and don't buy new, so don't over pay for anything...  I made almost $3k last year flipping gear or rebuilding sets and that covered everything in my sig and much more...But you try and step back on that horse cowboy...

 

Literally everyone I ever sold a set to or worked with thanked me for being up front about things rather than just toe a line for sales because they have been poorly served too many times.  Horse seems a bit taller now tho huh?

 

Funny thing is that if you didn't care, you wouldn't have posted, but your self entitlement got the best of you, again...  I at least acknowledge mine and just accept it, you need to get out of that closet.

Edited February 5, 2021 by setter02

[blazman11]

2 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

 

If you actually think this I really worry about your knowledge of the game. Rory is hitting a 7i stock 188 carry (can step on it for a bit more) to arrive at a 200 yard pin. Might have been a bit of help yada yada. The point is, he's sitting in the high 130s for ball speed with a 7i and spinning it near 7k RPM. When he takes some off a shot to hit a certain distance, his baseline spin and peak height are higher, so taking some off that shot allows him to control distance and retain those. When we are talking about amateurs who mostly already lack the peak height and spin needed to hold a green, trying to cover yardages is more difficult. What you end up with is 6 degree gaps in the short irons and closer gaps in the long irons. It is not what you need to score better. It's just smoke and mirrors. My other thread regarding loft jacking had my numbers for my P730 6i vs my dad's P790 7i (Both approx 31*) in it. What essentially happened at the same shaft length (I won't get into carry as the snowflakes don't like people who hit ball far) is that the clubs went the same distance. So, by using the P790, I would essentially "lose" a club in the scoring range and I'd have to cover the gaps with less clubs. Further to that, with the 7 spinning like the 6, I have less effective spin to cover those scoring shots as well making it harder to go at tough pins etc. 

 

 

Rory yardages below for reference. 

 

 

Driver…………………………… 321 yards
3-wood …………………………. 287 yards
5-wood …………………………. 268 yards
3-iron …………………………… 245 yards
4-iron …………………………… 236 yards
5-iron …………………………… 217 yards
6-iron …………………………… 205 yards
7-iron  ………………………….. 188 yards
8-iron …………………………… 176 yards
9-iron …………………………… 161 yards
Pitching wedge ………………. 146 yards
Sand wedge …………………… 122 yards
Lob wedge …………………….. 105 yards

 

Source:

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/04/21/a-close-up-look-at-rory-mcilroys-taylormade-equipment/2/

I’m poking fun at the entirely ridiculous argument that anyone should care what an OEM calls a pitching wedge and how it gets many peoples panties in a bunch. You proved my point perfectly. Who the heck cares and how does a 38 degree pitching wedge in a set you will never buy and is not marketed to you matter? 

edit:  I’m not making fun of you specifically just the general argument. You just happened to be the person who responded.
 

I think having choices in equipment is a great thing.  I wouldn’t buy such a set but for those people who hit it all over the face and are constantly 30 yards short because they want to hit the same numbered irons as their buddy, then such a set is available to them. 
 

Edited February 5, 2021 by blazman11

[pinestreetgolf]

30 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

I re-shaft my own gear and don't buy new, so don't over pay for anything...  I made almost $3k last year flipping gear or rebuilding sets and that covered everything in my sig and much more...But you try and step back on that horse cowboy...

 

Literally everyone I ever sold a set to or worked with thanked me for being up front about things rather than just toe a line for sales because they have been poorly served too many times.  Horse seems a bit taller now tho huh?

 

Funny thing is that if you didn't care, you wouldn't have posted, but your self entitlement got the best of you, again...  I at least acknowledge mine and just accept it, you need to get out of that closet.

 

I said I don't care about what you buy, not that I don't care about your condescending attitude to people who like hitting a 7 iron a long way.  I care about that (on this board, at least) because its a terrible attitude for the game and telling other people how they should have fun and regulating what they should or should not buy is pretty stupid.

 

The point isn't that you "flip your gear" or whatever horse thing you are talking about.  The point is that OEMs are full of marketing gimmicks.  Some of us fall for 170 yard seven irons, and some of us pay way more for shafts that say "Tour Issue" on them (lol).

 

Tee box is open, haters to the left.  People should have as many options as they can possibly have, not be spoon fed by "back in my day..." know-it-alls.

 

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, blazman11 said:

I’m poking fun at the entirely ridiculous argument that anyone should care what an OEM calls a pitching wedge and how it gets many peoples panties in a bunch. You proved my point perfectly. Who the heck cares and how does a 38 degree pitching wedge in a set you will never buy and is not marketed to you matter? 
 

 

It matters the same way 460cc drivers mattered umpteen years ago.  At some point we won’t be given much of a choice.  If sales continue , then eventually you can only buy a 38 degree pw.  For example.  

[setter02]

6 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

I said I don't care about what you buy, not that I don't care about your condescending attitude to people who like hitting a 7 iron a long way.  I care about that (on this board, at least) because its a terrible attitude for the game and telling other people how they should have fun and regulating what they should or should not buy is pretty stupid.

 

The point isn't that you "flip your gear" or whatever horse thing you are talking about.  The point is that OEMs are full of marketing gimmicks.  Some of us fall for 170 yard seven irons, and some of us pay way more for shafts that say "Tour Issue" on them (lol).

 

Tee box is open, haters to the left.  People should have as many options as they can possibly have, not be spoon fed by "back in my day..." know-it-alls.

 

 

1.  Is there not rules regulating what you can put into competitive play already rather then just letting people use anything?  Is this not "regulating what they should and shouldn't buy"?

2.  a 170y 7 iron isn't far at all...   I'm a bit embarrassed for you in thinking it is...

3.  Yes OEM's are full of "marketing gimmicks" and this is calling them out on it...  The fact you don't have an issue with it is a bit disturbing.  Baaaaaaah Baaahhhh

Edited February 5, 2021 by setter02